Author Topic: M113 Family of Vehicles  (Read 228304 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #175 on: April 12, 2014, 04:10:06 AM »
Here's another I like - the M113AS4 ALV:






All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #176 on: April 12, 2014, 04:10:36 AM »
Now, can anyone identify this version:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #177 on: April 12, 2014, 11:23:55 AM »
M113HOT

Offline Frank3k

  • Excession
  • Global Moderator
  • Formerly Frank2056. New upgrade!
    • My new webpage
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #178 on: April 12, 2014, 11:45:21 AM »
M113K "Miranda" with twin 34s.

Offline arkon

  • Paper Building Maestro
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #179 on: April 12, 2014, 02:25:08 PM »
victorias secret
the paper gods demand sacrifice

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #180 on: April 13, 2014, 02:16:47 AM »
I'm surprised no one has asked "what M113?" ;D
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #181 on: April 14, 2014, 10:21:45 AM »
I'm surprised no one has asked "what M113?" ;D

Was there an M-113 in the photo?

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #182 on: April 14, 2014, 04:21:50 PM »
Supposedly...
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #183 on: April 14, 2014, 07:07:36 PM »
Well I can see a front-heavy chassis that's getting wet.......



That didn't help, did it?  :-[
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #184 on: May 13, 2014, 02:32:40 AM »
As a subtle whiff, what about a M113 with a bow gun like the Japanese Type 60 APC:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #185 on: May 13, 2014, 02:53:35 AM »
As a subtle whiff, what about a M113 with a bow gun like the Japanese Type 60 APC:

Could be done, but who's going to operate it? You'd have to rearrange the bucket to have it's engine in the middle like the Type SU 60 (the later Type 73 had the same layout too), in order to get a gunner alongside the driver. Mind you, that would be a nice whiff in itself: I've heard the Type 60 dismissed as "just an M113 copy" several times by people who havn't really looked at it.... >:D
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #186 on: May 13, 2014, 02:54:38 AM »
Maybe have the driver be the gunner?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

  • Counts rivits with his abacus...
  • Much older now...but procrastinating about it
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #187 on: May 13, 2014, 03:06:13 AM »
Maybe have the driver be the gunner?

You need both hands to steer an M-113

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
  • Chaos Engineer & Evangelistic Agnostic
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #188 on: May 13, 2014, 03:15:44 AM »
Mmm... history hasn't been kind to driver-operated MGs up to now, but it might be doable with modern technology. Perhaps you could have some kind of system that puts a moveable aim point into the driver's periscope and he aimes the gun with a "coolie hat" controller on one of the sticks. Awful lot of trouble jsut for one, limited traverse MG though...

On kind of the same subject, a system I came up with ages ago for a heavy APC had two AGLs one on the front of each sponson, which could be controlled by the driver or commander. The commander could use them in a sophisticated way, but the driver had a very simple "emergency pattern" button which basically filled the frontal arc of the vehicle with frag and/or smoke. There no aiming involved: it was just an emergency "go around the corner into a street full of RPGs - sh*t!!!" facility...
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #189 on: May 13, 2014, 06:00:00 AM »
As a subtle whiff, what about a M113 with a bow gun like the Japanese Type 60 APC:

Could be done, but who's going to operate it? You'd have to rearrange the bucket to have it's engine in the middle like the Type SU 60 (the later Type 73 had the same layout too), in order to get a gunner alongside the driver. Mind you, that would be a nice whiff in itself: I've heard the Type 60 dismissed as "just an M113 copy" several times by people who havn't really looked at it.... >:D

Indeed, just look at the suspension. Much more tank like than the M-113. I kind of like the frontal MG. Keeps heads down while the troops are exiting out the back.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #190 on: May 14, 2014, 02:05:25 AM »
I was thinking the driver would only operate the gun when not driving.  This would be more of a covering fire weapon when the troops were leaving the back.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #191 on: May 14, 2014, 02:14:59 AM »

On kind of the same subject, a system I came up with ages ago for a heavy APC had two AGLs one on the front of each sponson, which could be controlled by the driver or commander. The commander could use them in a sophisticated way, but the driver had a very simple "emergency pattern" button which basically filled the frontal arc of the vehicle with frag and/or smoke. There no aiming involved: it was just an emergency "go around the corner into a street full of RPGs - sh*t!!!" facility...


Maybe a bit like the guns in the BMD series of vehicles:



and even in the BMP-3:



Look above tracks in each case.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #192 on: May 14, 2014, 02:35:28 AM »
Hmmm….

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2014, 02:58:02 AM »
And another:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline ChernayaAkula

  • Was left standing in front when everyone else took one step back...
  • Global Moderator
  • Putting the "pro" in procrastination since...?
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #194 on: May 14, 2014, 07:51:40 AM »
At first glance, that last one looks like the world's most sophisticated potato gun installation.  ;D

The variant with the 70mm rocket launchers looks interesting.
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #195 on: May 14, 2014, 09:26:06 AM »
Hmmm….




IIRC that is a mine clearing system.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #196 on: May 15, 2014, 02:49:41 AM »
Another variation:



All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #197 on: May 15, 2014, 03:30:01 AM »
The U.S. Army solution to "gun port envy" of the Russian BMP and BTR :)

The one part of that program that made sense was to add on the two GPMG gun mounts with shields and the armoured cupola for the vehicle commander.  The original GPK :)
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
  • "Define 'interesting'?"
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #198 on: May 15, 2014, 10:20:15 AM »
I've never been a fan of the whole gun-port thing.

I understand the theory behind it; some situations are too hot for the infantry to exit the APC, therefore give them the ability to return fire from within the armour to suppress the enemy before "dismounting" (I believe that's the leftover cavalry term).

The whole problem is that to return fire the APC needs to turn broadside-on to the enemy, making it a bigger target & ripe for an RPG or similar to take out the entire vehicle, crew & troops in one shot.

The best option is to dismount the troops prior to coming under fire, 2nd best is extra vehicle-mounted fire-power, preferably in (remote) turrets.

1 x main turret to the front; chose your heavy weapon loading of preference - .50cal / 12.7mm / 20mm / .50cal-40mm AGL combo / 7.62mm minigun
2 x 2ndary turrets to either side rear; medium calibre weapons - generally 7.62mm

Keep the APC bow-on to the enemy main force using the primary turret, with the secondary turrets providing flank protection while the troops disembark & find cover.

My 2 cents. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #199 on: May 15, 2014, 12:30:18 PM »
The firing port idea was a logical extension of the problems of fighting in an NBC contaminated environment.  The infantry could not pop their heads out of the hatch and fire or dismount for extended periods, so the idea was that they would contribute to the firefight as the vehicle carried them onto the objective.  It also came out of experience in Vietnam where mounted infantry had become somewhat "gun shy" (with good reason) preferring to fight from within the protective armour of the APC.

All this led to the development of the IFV concept.  The Soviets were the first, with the BMP-1, followed closely by the Swiss/Germans with the Tornado/Marder.  The US attempted initially to use modified M113s but they were deemed unsuccessful.  FMC developed the more advanced version of the M113, the AIFV, which was a modified M113 with a new hull, with sloping sides with firing ports in them and a 20mm turret:



The passengers sat in the centre, facing outwards, rather than along the sides, as in the traditional M113 (and which made the firing ports easier to use).

But the US Army passed on it, preferring to develop a more advanced vehicle in the M2 Bradley.   It was adopted by several other nations though - Belgium, Netherlands, Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia, etc.

Most vehicles that were developed with firing ports have had them eliminated in favour of increased armour.  The ports were a weak point, something the RN discovered in their warships in the First World War and most combatants in their tanks in WWII.