Author Topic: M113 Family of Vehicles  (Read 228298 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #125 on: May 13, 2013, 02:31:40 AM »
here's that Libyan M-113 SPG ...

I was thinking of something purpose built rather then a lash up.

Interesting arrangement - I presume it was one the Libyan "Rabbles" made in the last couple of years.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #126 on: May 13, 2013, 04:37:48 PM »
I've been wondering, when did Libya get M113s?  They weren't exactly one of the US's favourites after Qaddafi came to power...

As to the design, I'd be worried about hull rigidity with the top of the hull above the rear cut away and such a heavy gun mounting which looks essentially on the roof of the hull...

Offline apophenia

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #127 on: May 14, 2013, 05:35:53 AM »
According to the SIPRI Arms Transfers Database, Libya received its first 15 M113s from the US in 1966. Other sources note further M113 deliveries around 1980. The latter are usually listed as being ex-Italian (although I've never seen a source for that claim). If Italy was the source, presumably that would be true for the Libyan M577s too.

In 2009, Libya had partly worked out a deal with the US for up to 50 more refurbished M113s in 2009. The US Congress blocked that $77M deal which involved Turkish FNSS Defense Systems (a BAE/NUROL joint venture). Makes you wonder if the source for some of Qaddafi's M113s wasn't Turkey all along?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #128 on: May 14, 2013, 10:26:54 AM »
According to the SIPRI Arms Transfers Database, Libya received its first 15 M113s from the US in 1966. Other sources note further M113 deliveries around 1980. The latter are usually listed as being ex-Italian (although I've never seen a source for that claim). If Italy was the source, presumably that would be true for the Libyan M577s too.

In 2009, Libya had partly worked out a deal with the US for up to 50 more refurbished M113s in 2009. The US Congress blocked that $77M deal which involved Turkish FNSS Defense Systems (a BAE/NUROL joint venture). Makes you wonder if the source for some of Qaddafi's M113s wasn't Turkey all along?
well, the original 1966 transfer would've been pre-Qaddafi since he didn't come to power until later in the 1960's.  If memory serves me correctly, he threw the US out and took control of Wheelus AFB in 1969.

Offline apophenia

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #129 on: May 14, 2013, 10:33:02 AM »
Yes, exactly. Obviously the US position had softened slightly by 2009. But relations weren't particularly chummy in the 1980s! So how did the Italians get around US Foreign Military Sales regulations to sell-on those ex-Esercito M113s?  :-\
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Offline Weaver

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #130 on: May 14, 2013, 07:06:55 PM »
Italy was licence-producing the M113. Don't know how that affects the end-user regs though.....

Could they have been officially delivered to Egypt or Tunisia and then slithered across the border?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 07:10:00 PM by Weaver »
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #131 on: May 15, 2013, 08:31:03 AM »
Esoteric Armour (LINK) thinks they were sold directly by the US before the sanctions. They think this because the Libyan M113s are apparently very early models and because SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute) lists a sale for 1966.

I've been wondering, when did Libya get M113s?  They weren't exactly one of the US's favourites after Qaddafi came to power... <...>


Oh, but that was soooo last millennium. After he renounced terrorism (1999) and stopped developing WMDs (2004), he didn't exactly become a full-blown member of the Good Lads Club, but was sorta let in through the back-door. More or less quietly. Sanctions were lifted, oil and gas were sold to Europe, arms were sold to Libya ("worth several hundred million EUR per year", according to an Austrian newspaper), there were even talks of building a nuclear power plant  in Libya (in exchange for development/exploitation of uranium ore mines). Then Qaddafi became an ally in the War on Terror. Convenient for Qaddafi, who had problems of his own with Islamic groups, convenient for everyone else because, well, not many questions were asked. And Qaddafi was handy in keeping Africans from getting across the Mediterranean into Europe. By the end of the 2000s, it was almost as if nothing every happened between Qaddafi and the West.
Actually, looking at it now, it's kinda surprising to see how fast everyone dropped him again in 2011. Suddenly they were shocked to hear about his human rights record?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #132 on: May 15, 2013, 09:07:45 AM »
The Cynicism in international relations can often be quite shocking.  I was aware that Qaddafi had been allowed into the "good boys club" but wasn't aware that it might have gone so far as to supplying him with armoured vehicles.  Particularly when considers the hundreds if not thousands (apparently) of Russian supplied vehicles which were sitting in the desert doing nothing...

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #133 on: August 03, 2013, 04:16:40 AM »
Random Idea:  Wheeled M113?
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Offline Weaver

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #134 on: August 03, 2013, 06:04:29 AM »
Random Idea:  Wheeled M113?

For a simple conversion, give it skid steering like an AMX-10RC. Then you don't need cutouts in the hull for the wheels to turn.

How about one converted to a sci-fi B-movie prop? Clear bubbles over the driver and commander's hatches, the obligatory rotating radar dish on a panel that fits in the original roof hatch and a pair of wobbly "waldo" arms like the ones on the James Bond moon buggy from Diamonds are Forever? Nice silver paint job...... ;)
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Offline raafif

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #135 on: August 03, 2013, 08:21:28 AM »
How about one converted to a sci-fi B-movie prop? Clear bubbles over the driver and commander's hatches, the obligatory rotating radar dish on a panel that fits in the original roof hatch and a pair of wobbly "waldo" arms like the ones on the James Bond moon buggy from Diamonds are Forever? Nice silver paint job...... ;)

Done by NASA ....... various M-113's painted yellow, red, white or silver for Apollo crash/rescue units & field security ....

One US Army Heli base in Vietnam used an M-113 as a fire/crash vehicle.
Danish army also uses a few M-113s to fight grass fires on the firing range.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #136 on: August 03, 2013, 08:52:28 AM »
NASA M113 Emergency Evacuation Vehicle/Fire Rescue Vehicle

YouTube Video search results for NASA M113 APC Fire Rescue Vehicles

***replaced dead video link with link to search results at YouTube
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 03:53:55 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #137 on: August 03, 2013, 12:12:32 PM »
That was pretty cool with red-green 3D glasses.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #138 on: August 10, 2013, 04:29:55 AM »
M113 with SS.11:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #139 on: August 10, 2013, 04:37:22 AM »
Armored car???

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #140 on: August 10, 2013, 04:39:51 AM »
There's a M113 under there somewhere...

« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 04:42:55 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #141 on: August 10, 2013, 04:42:29 AM »
Singaporean M113 with Igla SAM:


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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #142 on: August 10, 2013, 03:06:14 PM »
There's a M113 under there somewhere...




BMP-3 vismod?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #143 on: August 11, 2013, 02:51:50 AM »
Yep
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #144 on: December 23, 2013, 04:30:40 AM »
Some more M113 variants:





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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #145 on: January 25, 2014, 03:43:58 AM »
Wicked!  Hellfire equipped M113:

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #146 on: January 25, 2014, 08:00:26 AM »
Experimental/Trials vehicle, I take it?

Offline apophenia

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #147 on: January 25, 2014, 09:08:40 AM »
Yep, the prototype. The M113 Hellfire concept was eclipsed by LM's MGM-166 LOSAT mounted on either a Bradley or M8 AGS hull.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #148 on: March 03, 2014, 10:30:04 AM »
Okay, found this (1/100th) resin hull in a box of bits at the Crewe Show, and for 25p, it was worth getting just to find out: WHAT THE HELL IS IT? (Never seen that top configuration before....)

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #149 on: March 03, 2014, 02:54:36 PM »
Harold,

Interesting find you have there.  That little model is supposed to represent an M113 BeobPzArt (Beobachtungspanzer Artillerie) - Artillery forward observer vehicle with raised roofline and PERI D-11 periscope.

It is missing the periscope that would occupy the small circular spot just to the right of the rear cupola and behind and to the right of the ventilation cover. 

I have a 1:35th scale model of that same vehicle that was built by a friend of mine from an old Peddinghaus conversion kit.
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