Author Topic: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 189558 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #200 on: May 29, 2015, 02:52:30 AM »
Wonder if 1/350 CVA-58 kits would sell ?

I would buy one.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #201 on: May 29, 2015, 10:16:53 AM »
Wonder if 1/350 CVA-58 kits would sell ?
I admit to being tempted, do one as built and one as overhauled with steam catapults, angled deck, etc.  Much like I'd like to do a "stock" Montana-class, circa 1991, and a battle-carrier, FACES II style, built off it.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #202 on: May 29, 2015, 01:32:43 PM »
I don't know about 1/350 but I would definitely go for one in 1/700.

According to Freidman in "The Post War Naval Revolution", one of the RN carrier specs from the early 50s was 1000' length and capable of operating a Canberra sized bomber, as well as able to cross deck any USN carrier type.  This is pretty much CVA-58 size and the CVA-58 also had more in common with the UK designs then previous US designs.  The type was also seen specifically as a bomber, or strike carrier and would have to have been escorted by a Midway and / or Essexs, Friedman also mentioned this, i.e. four groups, each with a CVA-58, a Midway and two Essex (one group would have an extra Essex in lieu of a Midway).

All this great looking B-58 art and whiffing got me thinking how nice one would look in an EDSG over white Buccaneer scheme.  Now a strike carrier with perhaps Canberras, then later B-47s and Valiants before Hustlers would be fun.

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #203 on: May 30, 2015, 05:39:53 AM »
I don't know about 1/350 but I would definitely go for one in 1/700.



You might be in luck...

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #204 on: September 10, 2015, 08:45:06 AM »
Folks:

I found this while looking for add'l Korean S-3 Viking info.



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Offline finsrin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #205 on: September 18, 2015, 12:17:07 PM »
Pick a carrier you like and up size it.
Example:  Enterprise CVN-65 1/350, 1/400, 1/600, 1/720 kits are out there.  Maybe others.
Build 1/600 hull & flight deck.  Use 1/720 bridge, fittings, aircraft.  Enterprise is now 20% larger.
Wonder how many would notice at model show.
Do same with 1/350 hull & flight deck.  Now it is supersized to 206%.

Or use two different aircraft carriers instead of same carrier in two scales.

Skywave makes many 1/700 aircraft.  Could even have SR-71 on catapult of 1/350 Enterprise.
Is tempting deviation from 1/72 builds.....     part of 1/700 fleet diorama?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 05:59:06 AM by finsrin »

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #206 on: September 19, 2015, 03:26:19 AM »
Does anyone know of any kit of the Charles de Gaulle other than the Heller 1/400 one?

Similarly, does anyone know of any kit of the new Queen Elizabeth class?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #207 on: September 20, 2015, 01:25:26 AM »
HP models do one but stuffed if I can find any info on it.

Offline TurboCoupeTurbo

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #208 on: September 26, 2015, 02:10:47 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/23/europe/france-egypt-warship-sale/?iid=ob_article_organicsidebar_expansion&iref=obnetwork

France is attempting to sell the two Mistral's ordered by Russia to Egypt.

Fun ideas could be had in who else they could have sold them to.  UK? USA? Australia? India?

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #209 on: September 26, 2015, 05:27:53 AM »
The fact that they are supposedly fitted out for Russian equipment would limit their usefulness (without potentially major modification work) for the likes of the US, UK and Australia.  Moreover, in cases like Australia, the similarly sized Canberra class LHDs are already entering service so no need.  India might have been a potential but I think they are now focusing on domestic production.
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Offline TurboCoupeTurbo

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #210 on: September 26, 2015, 10:34:18 AM »
According to the article, all the Russian equipment would be returned to Russia.  So whoever bought them would need to have new equipment added anyway.

But in the What If would of plastic, all cable runs work for any and every system  :P

Offline Weaver

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #211 on: September 26, 2015, 12:52:37 PM »
Interesting. All that the return of the Russian equipment means is that they are essentially unfinished, which means they're probably in a good state to be refitted to a new customer's spec. It's a pity the UK couldn't afford at least one of them to compliment HMS Ocean: it's always been an odd anomaly that we only have one LPH in the amphibious force when we have two of everything else.

Here's a thought: what if the UN bought them and equipped them as disaster relief vessels? No weapons, just unarmed helos and landing craft. They'd be ideal for going into somewhere hit by a typhoon or earthquake that's destroyed the infrastructure.

If not the UN, then how about one for the US Coast Guard? One in the Carribean would be a no-brainer. The other one would probably be best located in the Indian Ocean, but who would operate it? India would probably want the contract to build one if they were going to bear the cost of operating it.
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #212 on: September 26, 2015, 06:46:58 PM »
Here's a thought: what if the UN bought them and equipped them as disaster relief vessels? No weapons, just unarmed helos and landing craft. They'd be ideal for going into somewhere hit by a typhoon or earthquake that's destroyed the infrastructure.

............................................ One in the Carribean would be a no-brainer. The other one would probably be best located in the Indian Ocean, but who would operate it? India would probably want the contract to build one if they were going to bear the cost of operating it.

International crew operating out of Perth (the Australian one). Mind you, we'd probably have less trouble manning that than the Navy will the Canberra's.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #213 on: October 28, 2015, 01:36:04 PM »
Got a 1/350 CV-67.  Can use it as base kit to bash into 1/700 CVN mega carrier.  See below.
Skywave and Trumpeter have kits of 1/700 aircraft.  Be big enough to carry large and varied airgroup.
Only carrier with F3F, F4U, F-18 (among others) deployed at same time.


Pick a carrier you like and up size it.
Example:  Enterprise CVN-65 1/350, 1/400, 1/600, 1/720 kits are out there.  Maybe others.
Build 1/600 hull & flight deck.  Use 1/720 bridge, fittings, aircraft.  Enterprise is now 20% larger.
Wonder how many would notice at model show.
Do same with 1/350 hull & flight deck.  Now it is supersized to 206%.

Or use two different aircraft carriers instead of same carrier in two scales.

Skywave makes many 1/700 aircraft.  Could even have SR-71 on catapult of 1/350 Enterprise.
Is tempting deviation from 1/72 builds.....     part of 1/700 fleet diorama?

Offline Weaver

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #214 on: October 28, 2015, 02:02:28 PM »
Pick a carrier you like and up size it.
Example:  Enterprise CVN-65 1/350, 1/400, 1/600, 1/720 kits are out there.  Maybe others.
Build 1/600 hull & flight deck.  Use 1/720 bridge, fittings, aircraft.  Enterprise is now 20% larger.
Wonder how many would notice at model show.
Do same with 1/350 hull & flight deck.  Now it is supersized to 206%.

Or use two different aircraft carriers instead of same carrier in two scales.

Skywave makes many 1/700 aircraft.  Could even have SR-71 on catapult of 1/350 Enterprise.
Is tempting deviation from 1/72 builds.....     part of 1/700 fleet diorama?

Get an Airfix 1/600th Victorious and fit it with a modified bridge from a 1/700th Invincible plus 1/700th Phantoms and Buccs. That makes her a 41,500 ton "modern" fixed wing carrier: scaled down alternative to CVA-01 perhaps?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #215 on: October 28, 2015, 07:32:52 PM »
Weaver thankyou yet again some of the ideas you come up with are just outstanding!  I actually have an Airfix Victorious I built many years ago that is in a pretty sorry state after a number of house moves that could do with a birthday.

* Just crunched the figures and length and beam comes out very close to the Malta class, you could actually say it is a modernised Malta or that some or all of the Maltas were completed to a modified design along the lines of Hermes, perhaps instead of modernising Eagle, Ark and Victorious.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 08:05:29 PM by Volkodav »

Offline finsrin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #216 on: October 31, 2015, 03:06:26 PM »
Please post pictures if this build is started !

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #217 on: October 31, 2015, 05:49:25 PM »
It is very tempting but I have a shocking record of getting stuff finished, I have some WIPs that are so old I forgot I had them at all and struggle to remember what I was planning. 

For example I have an almost complete, mostly painted HMS Iron Duke that I think was intended to be something or other RAN, my County class DLG and I recently dug out an assembled but unpainted M-60A1 that I couldn't remember at all until I also found the three Verlinden accessory kits I bought to complete it as an Israeli Blazer M-60 all well before any complete blazer m-60 kits were available.

I almost did start the Victorious / Malta scalorama the other day bit hit a critical hurdle, I literally have nowhere to work on it where it won't be destroyed or damaged by pets or a four year old.

Offline jcf

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #218 on: November 01, 2015, 01:31:46 PM »
Paul, don't feel bad about that shit, I have 'still in progress' builds that were started in 1988.
A couple of which had some work done in the early '90s while I was splitting my time between
living on a junk and under a tarp in the 'staff quarters' of a youth hostel in Waikiki.   
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #219 on: November 01, 2015, 08:45:55 PM »
Paul, don't feel bad about that shit, I have 'still in progress' builds that were started in 1988.
A couple of which had some work done in the early '90s while I was splitting my time between
living on a junk and under a tarp in the 'staff quarters' of a youth hostel in Waikiki.   
You'll find a way and it'll be done when it's done. ;D

Thanks John, I'll get there one day, but a lotto win permitting the purchase of a semi rural block with a large, air-conditioned industrial shed would help. ;)

Actually got quite a large stash of carrier kits now but the old Victorious is the only that I've started.

Weavers idea is fantastic it just ticks so many of my carrier whiffing boxes, such as why would the UK transfer /sell bigger carriers to Australia when they had the need and the money, i.e. late forties/early fifties/early sixties.  Why, because they actually built the Malta's, see I have a model of a modernised one to prove it. 

Building the four Malta's is why the UK kept several of their Colossus and Majestic class carriers into the 60s, before replacing them with Escort Cruisers but disposed of Armoured Fleet carriers, the Audacious and Centaur/Hermes classes, the Malta's simply carried so many more, larger, more capable aircraft, that there was never the need to retain the larger small carriers, or the smaller large carriers.  Four modernised Malta hulls supported by five or six modernised 1942 light fleet carriers (CVS/LPH) did everything the RN needed, at lower cost than messing around with the other types, which were transferred to navies where their intermediate sizes would be more useful.

UK keeping CVS 1942s means an updated Gannet fit for service into the 70s could work, maybe a transonic / supersonic replacement for the Seahawk and Sea Venom (RN FAA Sea Hunter / Osprey P.1083/1109B hybrid) which would be suitable as third generation types for the exported 1942s.

Follow on is that navies that acquired straight deck 1942 Light Fleets could then replace them with modernised Centaur/Hermes class, or perhaps even an Audacious.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 08:51:54 PM by Volkodav »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #220 on: January 02, 2016, 12:53:16 AM »
From the Mosquito thread I am trying to come up with a believable scenario that would give the UK a class of affordable big deck carriers instead of the Implacables and possibly Indomitable.  I understand the logic of the Armoured Fleet Carriers, the assumption they would be hit and that there was no way the number and type of fighter aircraft available to the RN would be able to defend the carriers (or fleet for that matter) from the sort of intense land based air attack they expected to encounter and that these ships were designed as, treaty compliant, strike carriers able to weather air attack.  The issue as I understand it was the experts calculated that fighters could never be scrambled fast enough to defend the ships given the expected warning times, therefore the ships would have to rely on their, guns, manoeuvrability and armour.

The issue is the first four were laid down in 1937 and the final pair in 1939 before being suspended in 1940 and how to either get the Implacables completed (maybe laid down in 37 or 38 with the first four) much earlier to a modified Indomitable design with higher hangers (two at 16' instead of one 14' and one 16' or both 14'), completed as Indomitables, or cancelled.  The idea is the Implacables not compete for resources with escorts (as well as the final pair of KGVs) and a larger, non 2nd London Treaty compliment, design could be ordered in 1940 instead, perhaps also instead of the 1942 Light Fleet Carriers.  The RN would then have the same four carriers completed before the end of 1941 with the possibility of an additional two in service by mid 1942.  More importantly, a new design, capable of operating larger numbers of larger aircraft could then have been available by mid 1944.

Design pressures on the British carriers were the 22,000 ton treaty limit, the folded height of their biplane strike (torpedo) bombers, Swordfish at just under 14', the folded height of their amphibian aircraft, Walrus at just under 16' and the length, folded width and weight of either.  The non folding wings of the Sea Hurricanes and initial Seafires saw the Implacables modified during build with wider forward aircraft lifts, while the deletion of the requirement to hanger Walrus or Otter amphibians was one of the justifications for the 14' hanger height accepted on the Implacables, though stupidly the Albacore was 14'2" and the Barracuda 15'2" so one wonders what strike aircraft the admiralty expected them to operate.

I'm going to throw in a new design pressure, the carriers of the Home and Mediterranean Fleets were expected to operate within range of higher performance land based bombers, therefore it follows that their strike aircraft would be operating within range of land based heavy fighters and as such would need to be of significantly higher performance themselves to have any hope of surviving to do their job.  This would make the Fairy Battle / Hawker Henley the absolute minimum starting point for a torpedo, let alone dive bomber, but more likely the Bristol Blenheim or Beaufort.  So my new design pressure is the new carriers and possibly part or even the entire Illustrious class, it having been determined that scrambling interceptors will be ineffective, therefore not worth carrying and that existing and planned TSR (Swordfish/Albacore), dive bomber/fighter and turret fighters designs will be so outmatched that it is doubtful they could push home a strike, that the decision is made to design the carriers from the start to operate large, powerfully armed, long ranged, high performance twin engined fighter and torpedo bombers, i.e. the Beaufighter.

Designed to operate a Blenheim sized, folding wing, heavy fighter and torpedo bomber would required 45'x30' 20-25000lb elevators, arrestor gear and barriers designed to stop 15-20000lb aircraft and catapults for 20-25000lb aircraft.  Above all hanger height would need to be greater as twin engines would likely force the use of vertically folding wings, this alone could force the adoption of a 17' or greater hanger height.  This would actually be true to the RNs doctrine at the time of regarding the carriers as a strike platform with Beaufighters and perhaps Blenheims or Beauforts instead of Skuas, Fulmars and Swordfish.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #221 on: February 17, 2016, 08:59:04 AM »
Something I just noticed, the new USN Ford class carriers have a crew size similar to that of the cancelled CVA-01 class.  Considering that the US always tends to ensure they have dedicated damage control parties in addition to regular crew that suggests that the crew levels are basically identical if in fact the CVA-01 doesn't have a slightly larger crew.

Carrying this forward, had the CVA-01been built for the RN and RAN then the Fords could have been a realistic replacement.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #222 on: February 20, 2016, 12:15:44 PM »
Possibly...though remember that the same crewing pressures/technological developments that have reduced the USN crews over the last 40-50yrs have also applied to others so you would most likely also expect to see the RN/RAN proportionally smaller as well.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #223 on: February 20, 2016, 02:24:09 PM »
True but many of those advances are linked to the platform so only come into play when a new platform is designed and built.  Besides that just about the only way to cut costs on an in service carrier is to reduce the size of the air group.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Aircraft Carrier Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #224 on: March 03, 2016, 06:29:09 PM »
Has there ever been a trainable box launcher proposed/trialed for Tartar/Standard missiles?

(Wanting to find out if what I saw at Shipbucket is indeed one of those "never-built" designs......)

========================================================================

The "Through Deck Cruisers" (Invincibles) and the abortive CVA-01 were both designed with their own defensive weaponry, but they add to the firepower of their own properly-armed and -equipped escorts.

========================================================================

Although the G.91 is generally considered a strike aircraft, it's actually no less of a "fighter" than a Gnat Mk.1, with high-subsonic performance, an Orpheus engine, guns and no radar.

Portuguese put Sidewinders on their G.91s and employed the jets as interceptors during the UN arms embargo.

Sorry for the really really late response but the Mk-16 ASROC launcher had versions that also fired Harpoon and Standard (I assume this was the Standard ARM in an anti surface role).  The Mk-25 eight round box launcher from the Basic Point Defense Missile System (BPMS) can handle quad packed missile canisters developed to fire ESSM from the MK-41 VLS, so presumably could also handle Standard MR.  So technically either the ASROC or BPMS launchers could have been used as trainable Tartar/Standard launchers.