Author Topic: M113 Family of Vehicles  (Read 224472 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #325 on: April 26, 2019, 03:33:03 AM »
New twist on the M113 family thanks to here

Seeing the German companies develop the German army and producers to develop their tank destroyers and APC’s, the Americans wanted a share of that pie as well. Specifically, the Food Machine Company Inc. (FMC), the creator of the US M113 APC (developed a few years earlier), wanted to sell something to the Germans. Therefore, in April 1963, an offer was made by FMC to the Germans for two types of armored personell carriers, called APC Type A and Type B (Schützenpanzer Typ A and Typ B).

Schützenpanzer Typ A isn’t that interesting, although it looks very pretty.







Schützenpanzer Typ B is much more interesting, because included in the proposal, something else was hidden. This is how Type B was proposed to look:



As a part of the proposal, three more vehicle variants (well, four technically) were proposed. Two aren’t interesting for us (one was a 120mm mortar carrier, the other was a dedicated ATGM launcher). Third variant however was a 90mm Kanonenjagdpanzer proposal on Type B chassis. This is how it was supposed to look:



Basically, what we have here is a 90mm tank destroyer on modified M113 suspension. Technical characteristics:





And here is the fourth variant, 90mm Kanonenjagdpanzer with (unspecified) ATGM system (Shillelagh missiles are mentioned)



Might make for an interesting scratch build.
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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #326 on: April 26, 2019, 05:24:51 AM »
The Schützenpanzer Typ A might be the focus of friendly fire on the battlefield - it looks a lot like a BMD-1.

The tank hunter looks interesting, but the complete hull would have to be scratchbuilt - it only has 4 wheels per side.

I'm not sure that I'd want to put the fuel tanks at the front, right next to the driver and the TC

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #327 on: April 26, 2019, 01:01:16 PM »
The Schützenpanzer Typ A might be the focus of friendly fire on the battlefield - it looks a lot like a BMD-1.

Except this proposal predates the BMD-1 by about a decade and a half...

Quote
The tank hunter looks interesting, but the complete hull would have to be scratchbuilt - it only has 4 wheels per side.

I'm not sure that I'd want to put the fuel tanks at the front, right next to the driver and the TC

Depends if it is petrol of diesel powered.  If it is the former, I agree.  If it is the latter, I disagree. 

Offline jcf

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #328 on: May 04, 2019, 10:55:21 PM »
" ... a decade and a half ... "
Scutzenpanzer A proposal 1963.
BMD-1 development begins 1965, enters service 1969.

Frank is correct as it's doubtful, based on the history of weapons development/procurement
in NATO, that the FMC machine would have been in service any sooner than the BMD-1.
Which means you would indeed have potential ID problems in the heat of the moment.
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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #329 on: May 27, 2019, 02:21:51 AM »
A different sort of 120mm mortar version:

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Offline Jacques Deguerre

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #330 on: May 27, 2019, 11:57:21 AM »
Getting back to the M59 discussion from a while back....

My wife’s paternal grandfather was an automotive maintenance grunt in the US Army during the early ‘50s, although I cannot recall in which of the “Big Three” armored divisions he served. A year or so ago, I got the chance to look through his photos albums and discuss the various tanks and armored vehicles he worked on. It was an amazing experience since his memory is very keen and he had the chance to discuss this stuff with the one person in the family who has an interest and understanding about the subject. He mentioned the M59 as being the vehicle he hated working on the most. The scorn and exasperation in his voice when he mentioned “that piece of crap” was obvious and funny as heck! I don’t know if you could say the M59 was unreliable as such but when it did break down, it was apparently awful to repair and even routine maintenance was a chore. This is a man who worked on just about every late WW2 and immediate post WW2 armored vehicle in the US inventory, had a long career with International Harvester and has repaired just about everything from lawnmowers to cars and trucks to heavy vehicles and farm equipment. Yet, 60-odd years later, the M59 still stands out to him as one of the worst vehicles he had to work on!
Of course, this is purely anecdotal but I had always considered the M59 an interesting and under appreciated APC until I got the hear a first hand account from someone who worked on them.

Offline dy031101

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #331 on: March 30, 2020, 10:26:24 AM »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Story

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Offline M.A.D

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #333 on: April 09, 2020, 09:40:00 AM »
Studied proposed M113 SPH, with lightweight XM103 105mm howitzer.


M.A.D
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 12:26:19 PM by M.A.D »

Offline newtonk

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #334 on: April 11, 2020, 06:31:21 AM »
Fond this, the Aussie six wheeler; looking good in Aus-cam, too.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #335 on: April 11, 2020, 07:48:07 AM »
Does anyone have a solid plan for how to chop an M113 hull in order to lengthen it?  The road wheel locations being the one major issue unless you cut all of these details away and make replacements after the cut and lengthening has been accomplished.  Any recommendations? 
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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #336 on: April 11, 2020, 09:59:02 AM »
Jeff, I think the lower hull of most kits can be cut at the arm pivots. You could sacrifice a second kit for the extra hull section with an arm and wheel - just make sure to cut it in the same way as the recipient kit.

I think the hardest part is picking a spot on the upper hull for the cut. On a standard Academy or Tamiya APC the best spot is probably in the area between the commander’s hatch and the large crew hatch.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #337 on: April 11, 2020, 01:06:18 PM »
@Frank3K - This has been one of those things I have been stalled on for a very long time (XX years or so).  While it was not a priority, I was getting tired of banging my head against the wall with trying to sort it out.  The M113 hulls will be Tamiya since I have a sufficient quantity of the things and they are the cheapest at this point for trying to do the hull lengthening upon.  I have always ended up halting at the suspension arms since these are a moulded on feature of the hull and not separate it has always been an obstacle to me as to where an appropriate cut could be made to get that small extension in hull length without cocking it up beyond repair.  The overall length of the extended hull is not that much and I would imagine that you could extend the length of several M113 hulls before you run out of material. 
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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #338 on: April 11, 2020, 01:33:32 PM »
Jeff - The Italeri and Academy hulls have separate suspension arms, with only a small strut molded to the hull.
The Italeri hulls have a notch for the main arms, which can act as a cutting guide.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #339 on: April 11, 2020, 03:32:21 PM »
Hi Frank,

You know, I never paid any attention to the Academy or Italeri hulls and I have several (okay, probably a dozen) of both kits sitting right here in my kit stash here at the house.  I suppose my excuse is that I wanted to expend my efforts on the cheaper Tamiya hull and just plain ignored the hull features in the other kits. 
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #340 on: April 11, 2020, 07:02:05 PM »
I'm imagining a couple of members putting up photos of six and for wheel derivatives of the M-113 in the near future.  Personally I've always wanted to do a cut down four road wheel version with a scimitar turret for the RAAC CAV REGTs.

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #341 on: April 12, 2020, 12:48:06 AM »
I made a cut down four wheel recon M113 with the Italeri kit - The almost finished kit didn’t survive a fall.

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #342 on: April 12, 2020, 03:37:13 AM »
Mouse House do a full 1/35 M113 AS4 kit (I have one in the stash):



http://www.mheaust.com.au/MHE/Resin/MA/200/MA202.htm

Black Dog also do a couple of conversions:




https://blackdog-model.com/t35207-1-35-australian-m-113-alv-big-set-conversion-set-tamiya-1/
https://blackdog-model.com/t35206-1-35-australian-m-113-alv-conversion-kit-1/

The Black Dog ones would look cool with a 105mm L118 / L119 "Hamel" gun mounted on the back to give a light APH:




http://www.mheaust.com.au/MHE/Resin/OZA/Ozarmourclose.htm
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 02:25:01 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #343 on: April 12, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »
Now that I get to see how its top side looks like, the M59 really reminds me of the Rhino in Warhammer 40K  ;)

Minus the side hatches.




Love this

New twist on the M113 family thanks to here

Seeing the German companies develop the German army and producers to develop their tank destroyers and APC’s, the Americans wanted a share of that pie as well. Specifically, the Food Machine Company Inc. (FMC), the creator of the US M113 APC (developed a few years earlier), wanted to sell something to the Germans. Therefore, in April 1963, an offer was made by FMC to the Germans for two types of armored personell carriers, called APC Type A and Type B (Schützenpanzer Typ A and Typ B).

Schützenpanzer Typ A isn’t that interesting, although it looks very pretty.







Schützenpanzer Typ B is much more interesting, because included in the proposal, something else was hidden. This is how Type B was proposed to look:



As a part of the proposal, three more vehicle variants (well, four technically) were proposed. Two aren’t interesting for us (one was a 120mm mortar carrier, the other was a dedicated ATGM launcher). Third variant however was a 90mm Kanonenjagdpanzer proposal on Type B chassis. This is how it was supposed to look:



Basically, what we have here is a 90mm tank destroyer on modified M113 suspension. Technical characteristics:





And here is the fourth variant, 90mm Kanonenjagdpanzer with (unspecified) ATGM system (Shillelagh missiles are mentioned)



Might make for an interesting scratch build.


And these too. Thanks for posting!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 12:15:49 PM by ysi_maniac »

Offline M.A.D

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #344 on: April 25, 2020, 11:46:07 AM »
Never knew about this derivative:

The 30 X 35cm Surface-Launched Unit, Fuel Air Explosive (SLUFAE) mounted on the M548 😯

(Source: Tank Encyclopedia)

I wonder if this couldn't simply be used as a traditional MRL? After all the U.S. Army had neglected MRL's until the advent of the expensive MLRS system!


M.A.D


Offline M.A.D

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #345 on: April 25, 2020, 11:50:51 AM »
Oh, and I found this!!😯


https://youtu.be/bjUwkNaJgJs


M.A.D

Offline apophenia

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #346 on: April 26, 2020, 05:21:00 AM »
... Academy or Italeri hulls and I have several (okay, probably a dozen) of both kits sitting right here in my kit stash here at the house...

Jeff: With a dozen Italeris and all those cheaper Tamiya kits in the stash, how about a 7-wheeled Norwegian M113F4 prototype?  ;D
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #347 on: April 26, 2020, 06:16:28 AM »
Jeff: With a dozen Italeris and all those cheaper Tamiya kits in the stash, how about a 7-wheeled Norwegian M113F4 prototype?  ;D

I just finished sanding away all of the suspension details on one Tamiya M113 hull the other night, wow, what a mess.  Green plastic particles everywhere but the hull details were gone and that gave me something to ponder on lengthening an M113 hull beyond the standard kit length.  Seven road wheels is tempting.  Wonder how eight road wheels would look?  I think anything more than that and you have a problem.  Also looked at the BlackDog resin Australian M113 conversion to create a cargo carrier/logistics vehicle but the price is a bit much.  All of the on-hand M113 hulls make it more attractive to just try and do it from what I have and not purchase a conversion. 
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #348 on: April 26, 2020, 08:26:38 AM »
Maybe add a bunch of M113s together to do an articulate$ road train style creation?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: M113 Family of Vehicles
« Reply #349 on: April 26, 2020, 02:55:10 PM »
Maybe add a bunch of M113s together to do an articulate$ road train style creation?

An M-113 based BV 206 type vehicle