Grumman Guardian

[Jeffry Fontaine]

A place for anything you wish to discuss about the Grumman AF-2S Guardian (Killer) and AF2W Guardian (Hunter) ASW aircraft. 

Built in very limited numbers and only in service for a short period of time this aircraft design is almost as large as the S-2 (S2F) Tracker that replaced it.  After retirement from active service some Grumman Guardians found new life as fire fighting aircraft dropping fire retardant on forest fires. 


Wikipedia - Grumman AF Guardian

Greg Goebel's Air Vectors - Grumman AF Guardian (file combined with the S-2 (S2F) Tracker at the moment
Greg Goebel's Air Vectors Main Page

Virtual Aircraft Museum - Grumman AF-2 Guardian

Commemorative Air Force - Arizona Wing - Grumman AF-2S Guardian (Killer)

Prime Portal - Walk Around - Grumman AF-2S Guardian (Killer), BuNo 126731 (Pages 1 - 6)

Naval Aviation Museum, Pensacola, FL - AF-2S Guardian (Killer)

Grumman Memorial Park - AF-2 Guardian

Aviation Enthusiast Corner - Grumman AF-2S Guardian (Killer)

Pima Air and Space Museum, Tucson, AZ - Grumman AF-2S Guardian (Killer) modified for fire fighting

[The Big Gimper]

Thanks you for creating this Jeff.  I have several of the ACE/IOM 1/72 kits.  They are not the best molds but the IOM Guardian kits come with the bits to make either version.  :)

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The 1:48th scale Special Hobby Guardian kits at the moment all contain the same parts at the moment so you can build either version (AF-2S and AF-2W).  The kit instructions also show a parts outline for a third option which I suspect is the fire-fighting version but that piece is not provided in either kit. 

Since the service life of the Guardian was rather short-lived I wonder just how much airframe life was available on the aircraft that went to the scrappers.  The rather large wing especially leads to ideas of some kind for an aircraft that would fly at higher altitudes (though, IRL it was only 15,000'/4,572 m).  As a what if, it could certainly be the basis for some kind of ISR platform. 

Some interesting ideas have come up in recent text chat sessions with Alvis about turning a Guardian into some kind of surveillance and reconnaissance platform sporting an antenna farm on the fuselage and wings for use by any one of the Military Assistance Program countries that were provided with military equipment during the cold war. 

Another possible role for the Guardian might be to patrol endless swaths of jungle looking for roads and trails with surveillance equipment mounted in the bomb bay or in pods under the wings in a country and conflict of your choosing. 

Of course there is the fire-fighting missing and aside from the real operator of the Guardian in this mission there are other possible what-if users to consider.  Maybe France or Spain in the markings seen on the Bombardier CL-215 and CL-415? 

[GTX_Admin]

I have a number of ideas:

• RAN or RN or RCN or RNZN instead of platforms such as Gannet
• Turboproped version later in life
• Twinned version - i.e. take the Hunter and the Killer and join them via the centre wing...

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I have a number of ideas:

• RAN or RN or RCN or RNZN instead of platforms such as Gannet
• Turboproped version later in life
• Twinned version - i.e. take the Hunter and the Killer and join them via the centre wing...

Why not install a larger radial engine like the Pratt and Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major or the Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone instead of a gas turbine?  :)

A Zwilling Guardian?  That would be interesting. 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

After reading a bit more of the history on the Grumman Guardian I am truly amazed that such a large aircraft was actually operated from the very small CVE (aka 'Jeep' Carrier) for the ASW mission.  The Guardian's unfolded wing span was almost as wide as the CVE flight deck and operating from such a small flight deck day and night must have been quite stressful for the aircrew. 

My most recent addition to the stash in the form of the AF-3S Guardian with the MAD boom renewed my interest in creating a what-if aircraft where the large wingspan might come in to play.  Perhaps a Republic of China reconnaissance aircraft (acquisition of the Kinetic S-2A/E/G kit has three types of ROC roundels). 

[GTX_Admin]

Perhaps a Republic of China reconnaissance aircraft (acquisition of the Kinetic S-2A/E/G kit has three types of ROC roundels).

That could be interest.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

More on the what-if Guardian:   

Guardian operated by some organization that wishes to remain anonymous acquires a handful of Grumman Guardians that are now surplus and awaiting final disposition at one of the Navy aircraft disposal sites.  Reworked under contract by some clever contractors that are well known for doing things and staying quiet about what they do.  Depending on the collection mission (SIGINT, ELINT, COMINT), the air frame would be stripped of ASW related equipment and the respective black boxes for one of the collection missions would be installed.  This installation would also include a number of antennas to support the mission being positioned on the fuselage and wings to allow triangulation and establish location of the emitter for follow up collection efforts by other systems.

To maximize endurance and range the Guardian would be fitted with a pair of drop tanks carried under the wing adjacent to the fuselage in addition to a fuel tank in the bomb bay.  Additional stores could be carried on the remaining pylons as required for mission.

The crew would be reduced to pilot and mission operator.

Painted overall dark gloss sea blue (WW2 and Korea era Navy aircraft) or flat black (like the U-2).

National markings would be minimal and vague.  Or the aircraft could be "Sheep Dipped" and carry the markings of the host country from which it is operating. 

[upnorth]

Perhaps rig it up for SAR work. Give it longer range drop tanks and a droppable survival kit in the weapons bay. Stick some USCG or equivalent service markings on it to finish it off.

Keep the hunter/killer pair dynamic and give it to the customs service.

Perhaps a stripped down and lightened version without carrier related gear for land based operators.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Had thought about your last suggestion with the Guardian serving in ODG with the Army.  It would have been ideal for carrying the early AN/APS-94 SLAR or the IR systems and cameras with the additional benefit of folding wings would give you a much easier to conceal along the tree line aircraft. 

The Guardian models are but blank slates awaiting the artist. 

What I found most attractive with the Special Hobby Guardian kits is that every kit so far contains all parts for the -S or -W along with additional resin bits for the -3S with the MAD Boom feature.