Author Topic: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up  (Read 1236 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« on: April 14, 2021, 03:25:07 AM »
Folks,

In the real world The germans did have connections with the Chinese in the 1930s and beyond.  They even supplied a small number of HS123 aircraft and Panzer Is before aligning more with Japan.  What if this connection was expanded though (not sure how to manage the Japanese end just yet).  Perhaps this could be in part a way to put a pincer on the USSR.  Either way, perhaps we could see Chinese Ju87s, Me109s, Panzer Its, IIIs etc?

Thoughts?
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 05:23:11 AM »
China did use the SdKfz 222 and others before 1938.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2021, 01:37:33 AM »
China did use the SdKfz 222 and others before 1938.


Indeed - you can even get this model kit:



Add this to the Panzer I:



and HS123:




As mentioned above, maybe some Ju87s to replace Hs123s, Bf109s/Bf110s?  Maybe some Do17s/Ju88s/He111s?  a Ju52?  On the ground side, move to the Panzer II and III/IV?  Perhaps Germany finds a major trading partner with China or even pre-empts the real world by nearly 100yrs and put a lot of manufacturing in China - maybe as a way of avoiding scrutiny or perhaps a way to set up a pincer on the USSR.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2021, 02:34:39 AM »
Or Germany could have offered a licensing agreement to build more modern aircraft and tanks locally in China - the supply lines between Germany and China were long. After 1938, the contracts would have been nulled, but China could have just said "sue us, suckers!" and continued to build the tanks and aircraft locally, maybe with British or US engines.

Offline Geoff

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2021, 03:02:43 AM »
Or Germany could have offered a licensing agreement to build more modern aircraft and tanks locally in China - the supply lines between Germany and China were long. After 1938, the contracts would have been nulled, but China could have just said "sue us, suckers!" and continued to build the tanks and aircraft locally, maybe with British or US engines.


A bit like what happened with Mauser rifles in real life IIRC

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2021, 03:16:51 AM »
That is a possibility as well though will only get you the early design iterations and not the in-war ones.  Mind you, one could always then have the designs take on their own independent development path.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2021, 11:49:10 AM »
That is a possibility as well though will only get you the early design iterations and not the in-war ones.  Mind you, one could always then have the designs take on their own independent development path.

Possibly could have worked up until June 1941 when Germany invaded the USSR, actually they could have rearmed China, made use of Chinese industry in Manchuria and coordinated the invasion of the USSR with Nationalist China.

This drives the possibility of a neutral Japan or even an allied Japan if Japan US relation could have been repaired.  Without Pearl Harbour would the US have joined the war?

Offline Sport25ing

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 08:29:29 PM »
Not about Germany, but related:

"G.50 production attempts in China

Italians were for some time trying to negotiate with Chinese authorities about opening an aviation production factory in China. After initial negotiations in June 1934, the Chinese signed a contract with the Aeronautico Italiano per la China (Aerocina). This company was owned by the Italian Government in conjunction with Caproni, Breda, Fiat and SIAI. According to this contract, the Italians were to build the SINAW (Sino-Italian National Aircraft Works) factory in Nanchang. With this agreement, the Italians were to provide tools and machines necessary for the factory to work. The head of the soon-to-be factory was the Italian Luigi Acampora and the Director was General Chu Lin. The production of the first operational aircraft was to begin from July 1937 on and all Italian personnel were to return to Italy after five years of cooperation.

The SINAW officially started production in November 1936 with six Savoia-Marchetti SM.81B bombers. Future plans included production of 30 Breda Ba.65s and 50 Fiat G.50s. The factory was slightly damaged during the Japanese bombing of Nanchang on the 20th October 1937. By November the Italian Government made a decision to discontinue any further cooperation and stopped all future deliveries of equipment and materials. This was done mostly due to Japanese military actions and the poor cooperation of the Chinese. By early December 1937, all Italian personnel returned home, and the deal with the Chinese was abandoned without a single G.50 being built."

link: https://plane-encyclopedia.com/ww2/fiat-g-50-freccia/

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2021, 02:20:51 AM »
Cool.  A Chinese G.50 would look good.
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Offline Story

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2021, 02:21:52 AM »
Rather than sell them German material, why not teach them how to make German material (in the same way they taught them how to form German-style units)?

https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/s/Sino-German_cooperation_%25281911-1941%2529.htm

See also https://www.tsingtao.com/  ;)

Factory 21 Hanyang rifles with recycled GEW88 bolts is a pale template.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 02:23:34 AM by Story »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Nationalist China - Nazi Germany Link Up
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2021, 02:08:51 AM »
Something to add here:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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