Author Topic: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra  (Read 56151 times)

Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #75 on: November 20, 2014, 09:46:02 PM »
IIRC the RB-57Ds had AAR refuelling sockets somewhere on the fuselage. I have NO idea how I know this, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.

'Goldfish Bowl' canopy Canberras might have had a job with having a probe in the nose somewhere as there's precious little space to get the pipework past the cockpit area. Perhaps a roof mounted probe a la Buccaneer that ends up directly over the canopy so the pilot can see the action properly? Maybe a wing mounted probe like the USAF F-84s had?

Why not like the Valiants?  A nose mounted probe with external pipework to carry the fuel around the goldfish bowl to the fuel tanks behind?

Yes indeed, that'd work, and so terribly 'British' too, old chap.  :D
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Offline Weaver

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2014, 02:01:11 AM »
I have been toying with the idea of a B-57 derived night/all weather interceptor similar in concept to the EE. P.12 all-weather Canberra fighter.  Maybe arm it with early Sparrow missiles and/or Falcons.

And/or Genies..... >:D

The difficulty with the B-57 is that the pilot's protruding canopy is much nearer the nose than it is on a B(I).8, so there's less real estate to convert into a big radome as per the P.12. However, as the B-57G shows, there's plenty of scope to add a big radome onto the front of the existing structure, so this could well work out.

If you went full ADC on it, imagine how many Falcons and Genies you could get in the bomb bay!

EDIT: Wow! I just went and tried it and the answer is "not as many as you'd think". The B-57 bay is almost exactly the same length and width as the F-106's. The only difference is that the -106 bay tapers to the front while the B-57 bay doesn't, so it might be possible to get two Genies and four Falcons in by doubleing up the configuration at the back of the -106 bay, i.e. two Falcons either side of a Genie.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:09:15 AM by Weaver »
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Offline Weaver

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2014, 02:11:23 AM »
IIRC the RB-57Ds had AAR refuelling sockets somewhere on the fuselage. I have NO idea how I know this, but I'm sure I've read it somewhere.

'Goldfish Bowl' canopy Canberras might have had a job with having a probe in the nose somewhere as there's precious little space to get the pipework past the cockpit area. Perhaps a roof mounted probe a la Buccaneer that ends up directly over the canopy so the pilot can see the action properly? Maybe a wing mounted probe like the USAF F-84s had?

Why not like the Valiants?  A nose mounted probe with external pipework to carry the fuel around the goldfish bowl to the fuel tanks behind?

It'd look pretty much like the A-37B setup.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline raafif

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2015, 11:03:56 AM »
a couple of Canberra ideas ...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 02:44:23 PM by raafif »

Offline Geoff

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2015, 12:50:19 AM »
I have been toying with the idea of a B-57 derived night/all weather interceptor similar in concept to the EE. P.12 all-weather Canberra fighter.  Maybe arm it with early Sparrow missiles and/or Falcons.

And/or Genies..... >:D

The difficulty with the B-57 is that the pilot's protruding canopy is much nearer the nose than it is on a B(I).8, so there's less real estate to convert into a big radome as per the P.12. However, as the B-57G shows, there's plenty of scope to add a big radome onto the front of the existing structure, so this could well work out.

If you went full ADC on it, imagine how many Falcons and Genies you could get in the bomb bay!

EDIT: Wow! I just went and tried it and the answer is "not as many as you'd think". The B-57 bay is almost exactly the same length and width as the F-106's. The only difference is that the -106 bay tapers to the front while the B-57 bay doesn't, so it might be possible to get two Genies and four Falcons in by doubleing up the configuration at the back of the -106 bay, i.e. two Falcons either side of a Genie.

Plus a few Genies under the wings. "Loaded for Bear" ;D

Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #80 on: June 16, 2015, 08:07:03 PM »
I have been toying with the idea of a B-57 derived night/all weather interceptor similar in concept to the EE. P.12 all-weather Canberra fighter.  Maybe arm it with early Sparrow missiles and/or Falcons.

And/or Genies..... >:D

The difficulty with the B-57 is that the pilot's protruding canopy is much nearer the nose than it is on a B(I).8, so there's less real estate to convert into a big radome as per the P.12. However, as the B-57G shows, there's plenty of scope to add a big radome onto the front of the existing structure, so this could well work out.

If you went full ADC on it, imagine how many Falcons and Genies you could get in the bomb bay!

EDIT: Wow! I just went and tried it and the answer is "not as many as you'd think". The B-57 bay is almost exactly the same length and width as the F-106's. The only difference is that the -106 bay tapers to the front while the B-57 bay doesn't, so it might be possible to get two Genies and four Falcons in by doubleing up the configuration at the back of the -106 bay, i.e. two Falcons either side of a Genie.

Doesn't help the Canberra fighter but does bode well for a strike F-106  8)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2015, 08:10:20 PM »
I have been toying with the idea of a B-57 derived night/all weather interceptor similar in concept to the EE. P.12 all-weather Canberra fighter.  Maybe arm it with early Sparrow missiles and/or Falcons.


And/or Genies..... >:D

The difficulty with the B-57 is that the pilot's protruding canopy is much nearer the nose than it is on a B(I).8, so there's less real estate to convert into a big radome as per the P.12. However, as the B-57G shows, there's plenty of scope to add a big radome onto the front of the existing structure, so this could well work out.

If you went full ADC on it, imagine how many Falcons and Genies you could get in the bomb bay!

EDIT: Wow! I just went and tried it and the answer is "not as many as you'd think". The B-57 bay is almost exactly the same length and width as the F-106's. The only difference is that the -106 bay tapers to the front while the B-57 bay doesn't, so it might be possible to get two Genies and four Falcons in by doubleing up the configuration at the back of the -106 bay, i.e. two Falcons either side of a Genie.


Plus a few Genies under the wings. "Loaded for Bear" ;D

Perhaps http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-68.html instead of Genie missiles?  that could get interesting.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #82 on: June 16, 2015, 09:15:09 PM »
Thanks for that titbit.  Qetzalcoatl!  Love it!   ;)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2015, 10:33:28 AM »
Well, I found the Javelin nose cone fits a Canberra very well

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2015, 10:39:37 AM »
Thanks for that titbit.  Qetzalcoatl!  Love it!   ;)
I'm thinking that a pair of those, plus any needed radar upgrades, would look quite nice on a Lightning.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2016, 02:10:34 PM »
Found this on YouTube this evening. 

Very interesting documentary on the Canberra:

Great Planes - Martin B 57 Canberra
https://youtu.be/B7C7soGMIhY
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2016, 04:19:00 PM »
You might prefer the British version "The English Electric Canberra Definitive Documentary"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq7gK7QOeN0

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #87 on: September 18, 2016, 07:01:01 PM »
My version of a Canberra liner.



Compare with official airliner project: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=699.msg53564#msg53564
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 07:02:47 PM by ysi_maniac »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2017, 09:52:28 PM »
How about a RAAF FAW version to follow the original 48 B20s to provide the RAAF reserve interceptor squadrons with an interim all weather interceptor?  Thinking a Martin B-57 tandem cockpit configuration, radar nose, internal ADENS, perhaps 6 of them, and maybe Olympus instead of Avon.  Sort of a P.12 but better and ideal for conversion into a specialised night intruder once replaced in the interceptor role by a more advanced type in the late 50s, early 60s.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2017, 12:17:27 PM »
Rereading the topic after the discussions on new acquisitions and I saw M.A.D.'s suggestion that a modernised Canberra is adopted instead of the A-10.  How about this aircraft, using turbofans and with a strengthened airframe, including armour, is fitted with a PAVE GAT setup using a 30mm ATK in the bombay, Hellfire, Maverick, Paveway family, self defence Sidewinder and Shrike/HARM/Sidearm.  Subsequently upgraded with Brimstone, JDAM, SDB I and II, APKWS, as well as controlling UCAVs.  The idea of the larger aircraft is if engaged by SPAAGs the return fire with the ATK, if by SHORAD they lob an ARM, if its a Laser guided missile they use hellfire or rockets, plus gun to throw of the aim and still have enough ordinance onboard to engage the primary mission targets.  Maybe a Wild Weasel EA-57 to support the regular A-57s.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2017, 12:57:30 PM »
Looking through Black Box Canberras and seeing where they carried Red Dean missiles on trials and I keep thinking of an interceptor variant of the B-57 with those hardpoints carrying AIM-47 or AIM-54 missiles as well as Sidewinders on the four wing outboard hardpoints and your missiles of choice in the weapons bay.  Alternatively, perhaps an ER version of the AIM-47 or AIM-54 on those "Red Dean" locations with a booster stage to "reach out and touch" incoming bombers?

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2017, 09:45:47 AM »
^ Hmmm, looking at an Italeri B-57B and a Revell F-14D (both 1/72), it shouldn't be too hard to graft the Tomcat's cockpit and nose/radome section onto the B-57. They've certainly added far uglier noses to Canberras over the years.  >:D
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2017, 10:28:02 AM »
Maybe an early 60s emergency interceptor with an air launched Tartar and big radar, could use the Standard ARM from the Hasegawa Weapons Pack.  Updated with an enhanced version once the Standard becomes available.  Could have been an Australian response to Indonesia's acquisition of TU16s, I know they got them to deal with the Dutch carrier if they had to over "West Papua" as it was then, but we Aussies can be a fairly arrogant bunch and think everything is about us.  Actually I wonder if that is why we are so paranoid about everything these day "can't do that, we might upset the neighbours" when the truth of the matter is the only neighbour who gave a stuff was Mahathir who built his brand on bashing Australia and finding offence at everything for internal political reasons. ;)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2017, 11:14:54 AM »
Hmm, air-launched Talos and a big radar perhaps?  Backed up by other AAMs on the outboard wing hard-points? 

Another thought for the B-57, a bulged rotary bay with a fuel tank, like that fitted to RAF Buccaneers?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2017, 11:55:01 AM »
What about just using the B(F)-57 with some good old AIM-7 Sparrows
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2017, 12:19:03 PM »
What about just using the B(F)-57 with some good old AIM-7 Sparrows

That too but this is the age of trump so everything has to be th biggest and the best now. ;)

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2017, 05:29:34 PM »
Anyone got the length of the B-57/Canberra Bombay readily at hand?
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2017, 07:08:09 PM »
Anyone got the length of the B-57/Canberra Bombay readily at hand?

According to the IPMS UK Canberra SIG in the section devoted to the B-57 Canberrs, it states that the B-57 Canberra bomb bay is from station 214 to station 439 which comes out to 18.75' (5.72m). 

The station diagram for the UK/Commonweath Canberra is also shown but the details are a bit hazy thanks to the image. 
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2017, 02:04:37 AM »
Thanks Jeff.  Maybe have a Missilier style B(F)-57 carrying a couple of AIM-7s under the wings (say 4 in total) plus another couple in the weapons bay.  Or maybe even give the weapons bay AIM-4s or dare I say even AIR-2 and/or AIM-26.
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2017, 05:20:36 AM »
Colin @ Freightdog has in 1/72:

In our 'what-if' aircraft range, this 1/72 scale resin set includes parts to convert the Airfix Canberra B(I).8 kit into the projected All Weather Fighter project, the P.12 Interceptor. Based on the B(I).8 airframe, the conversion includes a new AI.18 nose radar, a twin Scorpion rocket pack mounted on the bomb bay and huge Red Dean missiles on extended wing tips. The project never left the drawing board, however all three elements were tested separately on various Canberra airframes. Parts can also be adapted to fit the Frog/Novo/Revell B(I).8 base kit.

Work in progress ::

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