Author Topic: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra  (Read 37590 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 06:59:04 AM »
VTOL Canberra:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2012, 03:52:42 PM »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 07:43:05 PM »
Ted Taylor's Airfix Canberra SC9 built with the AtoZ SC9 resin conversion

Click on html or image to view additional images and build article


(Image source: Ted's Modelworks/Ted Taylor)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 07:46:00 PM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2012, 08:42:15 PM »
Spiffing!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline upnorth

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2012, 12:14:44 AM »
Provide the Canadians a series fully Phoenix friendly for a Northern Defense Shield.

A pair of Orenda 11 engines would give a nice extra performance kick and weight savings compared to the Avon as well.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2012, 03:48:07 AM »
I've just finished reading a book on the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II
In it they went into the USAF's 'AX' (Attack Experimental) program. Originally the AX was supposedly the size of a Martin B-57 (aka Canberra). So this had me thinking .............
Has anyone seen the maneuverability of the Canberra? It's really amazing to see just how nimble the Canberra actually is! (Anyone in Australia who can get to the Temora Aviation Museum in NSW's can see this when they fly the Canberra there!!)
So I was wondering if anyone would like to have a crack at a B-57/Canberra modified to meet the 'AX' RFP?
THis of course would entail the fitting of high bypass turbofans (either rear fuselage mounted or the engine nacelles made larger in diameter to accommodate the new engines.
I think the tandem cockpit of the B-57 or the bubble cockpit of the Canberra B(1).12 interdiction model would have to be a must!
Oh and of course the installation of the General Electric GAU-8 30mm cannon and the wings fitted with a mired of hard-points for a mass of external stores!
Maybe a twin tail fin arrangement for better low altitude stability?
 
Just imagine the loitering time of this baby on station

Anyone up for drawing this?
Profiles would look great in the mired of camo schemes that the USAF tried on the YA-10 prototypes!! (I'll post some of these later!)

M.A.D         
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:03:23 PM by M.A.D »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2012, 03:59:43 AM »
You'd have the fuel capacity to get adequate range replacing the Avons with dry F404s giving a higher top speed without enlarging the nacelles.  Fit the GAU-8 in the weapons bay as a semi-permanent installation and have both wing and wingtip hardpoints.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2012, 09:14:04 AM »
You'd have the fuel capacity to get adequate range replacing the Avons with dry F404s giving a higher top speed without enlarging the nacelles.  Fit the GAU-8 in the weapons bay as a semi-permanent installation and have both wing and wingtip hardpoints.

Thanks elmayerle for your reply and input!!
My only concern with your advice on the GE F404's in place of the Avon's is that the USAF's 'AX' RFP was formulated in the 1960-70's, before the GE F404 was about!
I like your idea of the bomb bay / GAU-8 arrangement! This would also eliminate the massive mussel flash to the pilot! This would also eliminate a lot of need to intrude into the actual fuselage space (although the massive ammo drum would probably need to be redesigned).

Keep the thought alive and coming my friend

M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2012, 11:17:05 AM »
Whilst on the topic of 'What If' Canberra's, I long time ago I had a fascination with the prospect of a carrier-based variant of the venerable Canberra. As already mentioned, I've always appreciated the Canberra's endurance (and agility!).
So this is what I came up with on another forum .......

I have always liked the versatility of the Canberra light bomber design. As I've always liked the idea of a carrier-based variant. I thought I would have a go at doing a couple of variants for use by the Royal Navy, if they had of continued with their Elizabeth Class conventional carrier program.

My navalised/carrier-based Canberra is in answer to the Royal Navyís Operational Requirement for a cost effective carrier-based ASW/Anti-ship platform to operate from its new Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers.
The Royal Navy, although deeming the likes of the Grumman S-2 Tracker as an excellent design, although seems it too slow in terms of transit speed to a from patrol/hunting area for practical tactical use.
While it had been briefed by the US Navy of its up and coming VSX program (Lockheed S-3 Viking), to replace the Tracker, the Royal Navy sees this as a long term project that it will follow with interest as it matures into the prototype stage of development.....

As a consequence of both time and cost, of the VSX, the Royal Navy reverted to requesting options of modern ASW sensor systems being fitted into an off-the-shelf aircraft.
 
English Electric teams up with Grumman to incorporate most of the ASW sensors and avionics into a modified Canberra B (1) 8 airframe

The following modifications are incorporated into the Canberra, so as to carry out the ASW/Anti-ship role:
-Outer wings are hinged for folding to minimize deck-spotting factor and ease of using deck elevators.
-A surface-search / attack radar is fitted
-A Martin style rotary bomb bay/fuel tank arrangement is incorporated (i.e. XB-51, B-57,
 Buccaneer style). This is done to allow fuselage fuel cells to be replaced by ASW
 avionics in the fuselage.
-Two 16-round sonar buoy launchers are fitted at the rear fuselage
-A retractable MAD boom (as the type used by the Grumman S-2 Tracker) is fitted at the
  rear fuselage.
-A tail fin EW/RWR pod is fitted.
-The landing gear is beefed up for carrier-landings
-The nose landing gear has a longer strut /oleo to give an improved angle of attack on
  take off
-An additional cockpit is fitted (although I think I like the B-57ís tandem arrangement
  better!)
-The RR Avon engines are up rated for more thrust on take off.
-Facilities are made for the fitting of RATO for heavy take offs launches
-A retractable arrester hook is fitted
-Avionics are fitted to allow the use of MK-44 light-weight ASW torpedoes and AS.30
 ASMís

As per the other website I forward the following request:
I welcome anyone to have a go at putting my drawing in Royal Navy colours and markings of the day!
I would like the outer folding wings to lay over more, so as to rest on the engine nacelles (but I can work this out via the 'Paint' program I used to draw the profile!). Once again I welcome anyone who can do this to improve my want of this profile.

M.A.D   
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 05:46:51 PM by M.A.D »

Offline Weaver

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2012, 11:36:47 AM »
You'd have the fuel capacity to get adequate range replacing the Avons with dry F404s giving a higher top speed without enlarging the nacelles.  Fit the GAU-8 in the weapons bay as a semi-permanent installation and have both wing and wingtip hardpoints.

Thanks elmayerle for your reply and input!!
My only concern with your advice on the GE F404's in place of the Avon's is that the USAF's 'AX' RFP was formulated in the 1960-70's, before the GE F404 was about!
I like your idea of the bomb bay / GAU-8 arrangement! This would also eliminate the massive mussel flash to the pilot! This would also eliminate a lot of need to intrude into the actual fuselage space (although the massive ammo drum would probably need to be redesigned).

Keep the thought alive and coming my friend

M.A.D

For period engines, why not use the TF-33 fit of the RB-57F, with oversize fan shrouds on the front of the nacelles?

The only problem with fitting the GAU-8A in a belly pack would be muzzle blast effects on the fuselage, which is one reason why the muzzle in the A-10 is well ahead of the nose. MiG-27s fitted with the less powerful GSh-6-30 in a belly pack have experienced all sorts of trouble with damage to nose gear doors and inspection panels. In one case, the vibration made the entire front control panel fall onto the pilot's lap!

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2012, 06:46:28 AM »
You'd have the fuel capacity to get adequate range replacing the Avons with dry F404s giving a higher top speed without enlarging the nacelles.  Fit the GAU-8 in the weapons bay as a semi-permanent installation and have both wing and wingtip hardpoints.

Thanks elmayerle for your reply and input!!
My only concern with your advice on the GE F404's in place of the Avon's is that the USAF's 'AX' RFP was formulated in the 1960-70's, before the GE F404 was about!
I like your idea of the bomb bay / GAU-8 arrangement! This would also eliminate the massive mussel flash to the pilot! This would also eliminate a lot of need to intrude into the actual fuselage space (although the massive ammo drum would probably need to be redesigned).

Keep the thought alive and coming my friend

M.A.D
*chuckle* Well, how about a dry version of the VFX/FX engine for the long term with a pair of TF41s for the near term (note, I am partial to the TF41, thinking it a better engine than the TF30 that should've replaced the TF30 in more roles than it did).  You would need some nacelle enlargement ('bout 10 inches increase in engine envelope diameter if I remember correctly, but you'd need a larger inlet for the higher mass flow).

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2012, 06:53:16 AM »
As a thought, instead of a GAU-8, use a pair of Mauser KCA cannon as used on the Jaktviggen; they use the same rounds.  For something more "off the way" a GAST twin-barrel cannon chambered for those rounds.  I think the twin Mausers would look nice faired into the weapons bay.

I'm scheming an A-10 testbed with two Gepods, in addition to the internal cannon and other external armament.  I'm thinking "Gunfighter" with appropriate nose art would work here.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2013, 01:27:54 PM »
Thanks to Greg posting that link to all of the aviation videos in the Back Bar topic "Don't Blame Me" I found two videos about the B-57 Canberra on that page:

B-57 Canberra  Development (includes some footage of the Martin XB-51)
   
B-57B Canberra  Performance
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2013, 08:02:09 PM »
Well there was also Canberra WD952 Bristol Olympus in place of RR Avons that first flew in 1952 and took the world altitude record in 1953.  I remember reading somewhere that test pilots were so impressed with the improved performance that there was a recommendation that an Olympus powered version be developed to become the standard production version.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2013, 03:54:42 PM »
Canberra related transport aircraft:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2013, 11:36:48 AM »
^^^^
is there any better drawing of this?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2013, 03:05:54 PM »
Not that I am aware of.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2013, 05:42:07 PM »
IIRC, TSRJoe built one.   He may be able to supply picture pictures/drawings.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2013, 11:55:16 AM »
Canberra with A-1E Skyraider cockpit/canopy

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2013, 11:56:59 AM »
Canberras with Lockheed's wings and Allison engines




Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2013, 11:59:58 AM »
Someone asked for swept and delta wings y this thread. :) ;)

Swept wing Canberra


Delta Canberra

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2013, 02:59:32 PM »
Crossing Canberra and Intruder






Offline Volkodav

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2013, 07:41:38 PM »
I really like these Canberra derivatives, could easily see some of them flying with the FAA!

Offline kitnut617

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2013, 10:51:41 PM »
Crossing Canberra and Intruder

I'm ahead of you there Carlos, I'm using an A-6 cockpit in my STOVL Canberra (see post #6).  Mind you, I am using a polished up Vulcan canopy over it ---
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 10:57:58 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2013, 01:47:12 AM »
^^^^
Love your STVOL Canberra!!!  :-* :-* :-*

BTW, I also considered Strikemaster canopy