Author Topic: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra  (Read 37721 times)

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #125 on: June 03, 2017, 09:41:13 AM »
I still think a 1/72 Canberra fuselage would make a great Churchill Cigar model....
kwyxdxLg5T

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #126 on: June 04, 2017, 01:57:36 AM »
Or perhaps a true marinized version would move the engines closer to the fuselage centreline


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Offline jcf

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #127 on: June 04, 2017, 02:28:40 AM »
Not quite, I'm thinking more along the lines of something half-way between the Canberra
installation and the CF-100 as far as positioning from the airframe centreline is concerned.
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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #128 on: June 06, 2017, 08:40:20 AM »
Not quite, I'm thinking more along the lines of something half-way between the Canberra
installation and the CF-100 as far as positioning from the airframe centreline is concerned.
With only a narrow space between the nacelles and the fuselage, I think you would start to get some significant interference drag/turbulence down that valley. Possibly mess up the airflow over the tail something fierce. Almost the worst of both worlds, I think. Though it's been a while since my aerodynamics course, so it might not be as bad as I imagine.

Paul

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #129 on: June 06, 2017, 04:00:21 PM »
Not quite, I'm thinking more along the lines of something half-way between the Canberra
installation and the CF-100 as far as positioning from the airframe centreline is concerned.
With only a narrow space between the nacelles and the fuselage, I think you would start to get some significant interference drag/turbulence down that valley. Possibly mess up the airflow over the tail something fierce. Almost the worst of both worlds, I think. Though it's been a while since my aerodynamics course, so it might not be as bad as I imagine.

Paul

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2017, 01:13:31 AM »
Not quite, I'm thinking more along the lines of something half-way between the Canberra
installation and the CF-100 as far as positioning from the airframe centreline is concerned.
With only a narrow space between the nacelles and the fuselage, I think you would start to get some significant interference drag/turbulence down that valley. Possibly mess up the airflow over the tail something fierce. Almost the worst of both worlds, I think. Though it's been a while since my aerodynamics course, so it might not be as bad as I imagine.

Paul
Yeah, a narrow space that really creates interference drag.  It's why drag reduction packages for Learjets have a much thicker pylon, that eliminates the drag-inducing valley between fuselages and nacelle.

Offline jcf

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2017, 10:24:43 AM »
The Canberra nacelles are smaller diameter than the fuselage, so I'm not sure it would be that much of an issue unless
they were brought extremely close to the fuselage, without fairing in ala the CF-100, anyhow I wasn't talking anything
that extreme, more like this (quick n' nasty drawing mod of port side):
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #132 on: June 08, 2017, 08:20:44 AM »
anyhow I wasn't talking anything that extreme, more like this (quick n' nasty drawing mod of port side):
Isn't the distance between the fuselage and the nacelles used as the height of the main gear? Bring the nacelles in and you have to shorten the gear or telescope them, which is heavy and complicated (= prone to failure).

Just thinking out loud.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #133 on: June 08, 2017, 11:48:28 AM »
Bring the nacelles right up to the fuselage, with fairing in, and use outward retracting gear with the major rib holding the main landing gear trunnions also serving to hold the hinge halves for the folding wing?

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2017, 03:28:17 PM »
Turboprop Canberra and Phanberra


Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #135 on: July 17, 2017, 12:24:12 AM »
Nice!  8)
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Moritz

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Offline Kerick

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #136 on: July 17, 2017, 04:37:58 AM »
Love all three of those!

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #137 on: November 27, 2019, 08:44:47 PM »
How about a fighter version of the Canberra, not just radar fitted etc. but more along the lines of the Hornet vs the Mosquito, or the Cobra verses the Huey?

Canberra wings and engines with a narrow diameter fuselage, tandem cockpit, radar, cannons, etc.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #138 on: November 27, 2019, 10:58:26 PM »
How about a fighter version of the Canberra, not just radar fitted etc. but more along the lines of the Hornet vs the Mosquito, or the Cobra verses the Huey?

Canberra wings and engines with a narrow diameter fuselage, tandem cockpit, radar, cannons, etc.
For the period, early-50s through 70s the wings and engines simply don't cut it as a proper day fighter. The wing shape and airfoil are not going to cut it for maneuverability and the engine power isn't there for good energy management in a dogfight. Engines out on the wing are also not at all good for roll rate, a key maneuverability metric. And, of course, as soon as you get into the mid-60s, the supersonic fighters take over and you're relegated to fighter-bomber like the Hunter and even the F-100 Super Sabre.

Now, you might be able to configure it as a bomber interceptor roughly equivalent to the CF-100, Javelin, Starfiire, etc. Especially if you could get the speed up to something over 620 mph as the Clunk and Javelin were known to be notoriously slow and hard to position for intercepts and would have had a real problem with Badgers in the shorter engagement times of Europe.

As interceptors they wouldn't have the speed to do stern chase intercepts with the early IR missiles, but would have to rely upon ahead angle intercepts with radar missiles, which were bigger and needed a good radar for the period. Unfortunately, radar guided missiles really wouldn't be available until the late 50s early 60s and even those early missiles required a stern chase attack vector.

Or, of course, you could be firing Genie's, but pitching nuke rockets at nuke bombers over the rather congested airspace of Europe has never been a politically viable option.

While an interesting conjecture, I don't think there is anything in it, practically. the various technologies don't quite line up to suggest a useful project.

Paul, the party pooper.

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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #140 on: March 11, 2020, 02:42:40 AM »
Interesting video once you get past the first part to what matters most for this topic on the EE Canberra.  RAAF: Conversion To Canberras
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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #141 on: October 05, 2020, 03:15:25 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #142 on: October 05, 2020, 03:18:05 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #143 on: October 05, 2020, 04:01:10 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline dy031101

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #144 on: September 27, 2021, 11:33:55 AM »
Um...... Canberra with missiles  :-*

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #145 on: September 27, 2021, 09:28:38 PM »
It's a really nice kit too -- I've got one of them

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: English Electric and Martin B-57 Canberra
« Reply #146 on: September 27, 2021, 09:51:05 PM »
Nicely done!  :smiley:
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