Author Topic: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 33927 times)

Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2013, 09:06:24 AM »
This sounds intriguing to build.   :)
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1/144 ?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2013, 09:57:29 PM »
This sounds intriguing to build.   :)
You may start cutting and filing styrene at any time.
1/144 ?

1/72 --  ;)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2013, 12:39:34 AM »
For purposes of scaling the TSSAM tail surfaces, match the vertical tail "span" to that of the B-52G/H and similarly scale the horizontal tail surfaces.  As all-moving surfaces, that's going to give you powerful tail control.

Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2013, 12:40:09 AM »
Where do you find a 1/72 767 ?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2013, 02:38:06 AM »
For purposes of scaling the TSSAM tail surfaces, match the vertical tail "span" to that of the B-52G/H and similarly scale the horizontal tail surfaces.  As all-moving surfaces, that's going to give you powerful tail control.


I think I'll need that with a pair of GE90-85'2 Evan    :-\


Where do you find a 1/72 767 ?


Aircraft in Miniature Bill --

http://www.aim72.co.uk/page231.html
http://www.aim72.co.uk/page77.html

which I have ---  pics show a comparison with an Avro Vulcan/Atlantic

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2013, 04:29:13 AM »
Various info here on all sorts of unbuilt B-52s including those with bigger engines.
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Offline Nexus1171

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2013, 08:59:11 AM »
kitnut617

Well, a new wing would fix the problem.  Keep in mind though that the B-52 was designed to fly at altitudes higher than the 767 was designed to on a routine basis and as a result the plane's wing is larger in span and area.

Wing Area
B-52: 4000 square feet
767-400: 3130 square feet

Wingspan
B-52: 185'0"
767-400: 170'4"

Also, the 767s are designed for a lower maximum mach number than the B-52
B-52: Mach 0.90-91
767: Mach 0.86

I read GTX_Admin's link and there's some data that states the B-52 didn't have enough rudder-control to keep the plane in a straight line if had 4 engines each producing 40,000 pounds of thrust, and the outboards failed: I suppose you could put in a new rudder.  I don't know if you'd need to enlarge the tail-fin, or if you'd just enlarge the area of the rudder.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2013, 09:10:46 AM »
I'm thinking that my concept of adopting the all-moving TSSAM-style vertical here (TSSAM lines scaled up to match the span of the B-52G/H vertical) might help with both reduced RCS and enhanced  vertical tail authority.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2013, 12:17:26 AM »
kitnut617

Well, a new wing would fix the problem.  Keep in mind though that the B-52 was designed to fly at altitudes higher than the 767 was designed to on a routine basis and as a result the plane's wing is larger in span and area.

Wing Area
B-52: 4000 square feet
767-400: 3130 square feet

Wingspan
B-52: 185'0"
767-400: 170'4"


I had already worked all that out Robyn (now is that your real, real name  ::) ).  However the two wings can lift nearly the same load ----  and as B-52's now fly at medium to low altitude, I'm not worried what it was initially designed to do. Plus the B-52 wing is a 1950's design, the 767 wing a 70's/80's so more advanced I would think ----  On top of all that I was going to increase the 767 wing span anyway, only not just extending wingtips, I'll work at the wing root, probably add an extra inch to the model's wings.  This was planned because of the GE90 engines I intend to mount on the wing, I need some more space between them and the sponson mounted main u/c.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 01:36:31 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2013, 01:01:23 AM »
Yeah, keeping the interference drag down can help markedly.  I suspect that, if this was done IRL, they'd keep the loft lines of the 767 wing but have more spars, spaced to mate with the B-52's spar frames in the fuselage.  Anything else would start to get *real* messy.  I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 02:01:56 AM by elmayerle »

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2013, 01:45:08 AM »
Extending the various loft lines is how I intend to do it Evan, much the same as what I'm working out for my Vulcan wing re-engine project (for CFM 56 or RR equivalent).  The profile gauge I have though is not dense enough with the spines to give a really accurate profile so I might have to cut the wing parallel and a couple of inches futher out from the wing root so I can trace the chord better.  I'll then work it out on the computer.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2013, 09:15:29 PM »
I was doing some 1/72 engine sizing last night, a GE90-85 nacelle outside diameter is 137", which is 1.9" in 1/72, (the fan itself is 123" in diameter which is the same as a Spitfire prop).  This is very convenient because 1 1/2" NPT pipe just happens to be 1.9" OD.  All I've got to do is get a bunch of short pipe lengths in ABS plastic (2"-4") and stick them in a lathe and turn a shape onto them.  This will also help with a visual of how it will look on the B-52 before hand ---
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 09:19:21 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration ... re-engining possibilities ..
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2015, 02:50:07 AM »
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show-daily/afa/2015/02/12/b52-engine-private-public-partnership/23185827/

"Analysts have identified the Pratt PW2000 engine, known as the F117 on military aircraft, as a potential replacement. That engine is used on the 757 commercial jet, which ended production about a decade ago, and the C-17 military cargo plane, which ends production this year.

Speaking the day before Holmes, Bennett Croswell, head of Pratt's military engines unit, told reporters his company has made "some very attractive offerings" to the Air Force.

Croswell said that while the F117 may be logical, in the past there were issues with control authority of the plane that could have required a re-wing to mount the more powerful engines. That problem has been solved, he said, and the company has offerings that can keep the eight-engine configuration."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_PW2000
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 02:52:12 AM by jcf »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2015, 04:12:09 AM »
Here we go again...
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2015, 04:56:54 AM »
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

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Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2015, 05:43:49 AM »
Aw c'mon Greg, they're looking at new 'public/private cooperative ventures' for funding the program,
you know you want to get in on that.
 ;D
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2015, 05:45:28 AM »
hmmm…spend lot's of money pursuing an opportunity that just isn't there…me thinks not.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: February 14, 2015, 05:52:04 AM »
Start a KickStarter or Crowd/Cloud Funding program to replace the engines on the B-52...  :)
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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2015, 05:56:42 AM »
Start a KickStarter or Crowd/Cloud Funding program to replace the engines on the B-52...  :)

 ;D
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: February 14, 2015, 09:48:26 AM »
I know this comes up often but I would think that the upgrade is the last thing the USAF would want with LRS-B in the works. I know its been said before plenty but the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze for whats left with the B-52.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2015, 10:14:04 AM »
I know this comes up often but I would think that the upgrade is the last thing the USAF would want with LRS-B in the works. I know its been said before plenty but the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze for whats left with the B-52.

Well said; agree.  Perhaps if there was more time left on B-52 clock.
Or,,,,   Perhaps if cost is attractive enough a do limited number which eliminate comstraints on certain mission scenerios and reduce tanker demands.  Thatz my WAG.
Make sense to retain those modified B-52 longer as bomb trucks for low threat missions ?

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2015, 11:51:01 PM »
I know this comes up often but I would think that the upgrade is the last thing the USAF would want with LRS-B in the works. I know its been said before plenty but the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze for whats left with the B-52.

Well said; agree.  Perhaps if there was more time left on B-52 clock.
Or,,,,   Perhaps if cost is attractive enough a do limited number which eliminate comstraints on certain mission scenerios and reduce tanker demands.  Thatz my WAG.
Make sense to retain those modified B-52 longer as bomb trucks for low threat missions ?

I think it might have been worth doing in the early 1990s hindsight being what it is, but having missed that window...
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Offline arkon

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2015, 09:46:08 AM »
Random thought- USN EB-52 "Apollo"
the paper gods demand sacrifice

Offline Kerick

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2015, 10:16:06 AM »
Somewhere I saw a whiff of a B-52 modified as a seaplane waterbomber. I was thinking of putting the engines above the wings YC-14 style.

Offline jcf

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Re: Boeing B-52 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2015, 04:12:02 AM »
From Flight Global

PARIS: P&W developing upgrade package for B-52 engine
By: STEPHEN TRIMBLEPARIS Source:  6 hours ago
Pratt & Whitney is developing a proposal for a package of performance upgrades for the existing Boeing B-52 engine after
the US Air Force again postponed a plan to replace the venerable bomber’s 60-year old TF33 engine.

Several four-engined solutions have been evaluated by the USAF to replace the eight TF33s on board each B-52H.

But the four-engined aircraft may not have enough rudder authority to counter the adverse yaw generated by an
outboard engine-out scenario, says P&W military engines president Bennett Croswell.

So P&W proposed a re-engined B-52s with eight new turbofan engines, but the USAF instead decided to postpone the programme,
he says.

The TF33 was derived from the original P&W JT3 turbojet engine that drove the first generation of jet-powered Amercian airliners.

P&W is developing an upgrade package to improve the fuel and maintenance performance for the TF33 through the end of its service life.
The USAF currently plans to operate the B-52 fleet to at least 2060.

__________________________________________________________

Note this line: But the four-engined aircraft may not have enough rudder authority to counter the adverse yaw generated by an outboard
engine-out scenario,
says P&W military engines president Bennett Croswell.

So perhaps a four-engine B-52 would need the old D model tail?  ;D

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014