Author Topic: What If the British Army bought the M113?  (Read 20616 times)

Offline M.A.D

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2013, 09:01:58 AM »
Well I like the Tracked Rapier very much so in whiffdom Rapier does work ok :P

Several countries have whiffed the M-113 .....
Egypt & India were the first to make an extended chassis version with extra armour.
Philipines track ....


Libya converted several into SPGs with Russian 122mm D-30M guns in an open superstructure !


India?
Does India use Gavin's?

M.A.D

Offline AGRA

  • Took the opportunity to tease us with a RAAF F-82
Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2013, 09:10:28 AM »
India?
Does India use Gavin's?

M.A.D

No one, anywhere has ever used "Gavins".

But AFAIK India has never used M113s. The A4 extra road wheel mod was only built in the US, Germany and Australia.

Offline Weaver

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 09:27:31 AM »
I thought Egypt had 6-wheelers with Bradley turrets?
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline AGRA

  • Took the opportunity to tease us with a RAAF F-82
Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2013, 09:51:35 AM »
I thought Egypt had 6-wheelers with Bradley turrets?

Yes you are right (my bad). This is the FMC A4 mod (Australia chose the German A4 mod).

Offline Weaver

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 07:32:28 PM »
No one, anywhere has ever used "Gavins".

One of these days I'm going to make a diorama of a blown-to-kingdom-come M113 with just enough hull left to see that it's nickname was "Sparky's Magic Piano".... >:D ;)
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2013, 08:50:13 PM »
No one, anywhere has ever used "Gavins".

One of these days I'm going to make a diorama of a blown-to-kingdom-come M113 with just enough hull left to see that it's nickname was "Sparky's Magic Piano".... >:D ;)

He has his devotees and his campaign is slowly spreading.  It's interesting the number of times I've come across someone on the internet who calls them "Gavins" out of ignorance and Sparky's machinations.   >:D

Offline deathjester

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2013, 11:37:41 PM »
Erm...Eh???  What's that all about then?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2013, 12:13:06 AM »
Erm...Eh???  What's that all about then?

Search at your own risk and you shall see many things under the search term "M113 Gavin" but please do not ever use that term again in polite company or in this thread. :)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 12:14:49 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 02:14:53 AM »
Yes, everyone knows that the name has never been "Gavin"...it was always "Frank"... ;)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Weaver

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2013, 02:28:55 AM »
Erm...Eh???  What's that all about then?

A gentleman called Mike Sparks runs a huge, rambling website full of huge rambling ideas about how to reform the US Army, called Combatreform. He's a strong detractor of the Stryker and a strong promoter of the M113, seeming to belive the latter can do everything from darn your socks to fly you to the moon. He has launched a campaign to get the M113 christened the "Gavin" after Gen. J.M.Gavin, however this is most definitely NOT an official name for the vehicle and commands no significant support amongst serving military or veterans: it has only gained some traction on the internet because it's scarily easy to end up on his site when doing searches on military matters. Mr. Sparks is also notably aggressive and intolerent in his dealings with people who disagree with him on the internet (including serving military and veterans), to the extent that he has managed to get  himself banned from numerous websites and made himself hugely unpopular.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline deathjester

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2013, 03:27:36 AM »
Thanks Weaver, that's ALL I wanted to know about it - what to avoid, and why!!

Erm...Eh???  What's that all about then?

Search at your own risk and you shall see many things under the search term "M113 Gavin" but please do not ever use that term again in polite company or in this thread. :)
I think you'll find that I didn't actually mention it - I simply enquired as to what the problem was.  Now that I know, I won't be bothering to look into it further.

Offline apophenia

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2013, 08:38:32 AM »
... The A4 extra road wheel mod was only built in the US, Germany and Australia.

There are Canadian-made M113A4 conversions too (from UD kits) ... we just don't call them 'A4s.

In Canadian Forces terminology, the M113A3 upgrade became a TLAV (Tracked Light Armoured Vehicle). The stretched, 6-wheelers were the MTVL (Mobile Tracked Vehicle, Light) with a range of specialty role variants -- open-backed cargo MTVC and fitter MTVF, and 'full-bodied' engineering MTVE and recovery MTVR.
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Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2013, 10:58:30 AM »
Erm...Eh???  What's that all about then?

Search at your own risk and you shall see many things under the search term "M113 Gavin" but please do not ever use that term again in polite company or in this thread. :)

Ha ha...........
But for someone like myself who has spent too many years hot and cramped riding around and debussing from the M113, I'll call it anything I like  ;D

M.A.D

Offline Weaver

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2013, 07:05:36 AM »
Minor progress. The gunner's position now has vision blocks , periscopes a base for the missile guidance periscope, and the missile bays have little V-shaped fittings in front of them as per the FV438. Not sure what those are to be honest: I did think they might be wire cutters to sheer off the control wires as the launcher retracted but a close examination shows that they can't do that. My vision block/periscope setup is based on the FV438 but has to be different because my missile "turret" is bigger and different internally.



"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Weaver

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2013, 07:42:13 AM »
Well, I'm calling the Swingfire conversion done now, or at least as done as it can be before painting. This weekend I've done the wire catcher and the periscope cage in brass wire. It's overscale and not strictly accurate to the FV438, but it looks okay. There were at least two different designs of wire catcher used on the FV438 anyway, and some of them seem to have got pretty knocked about in service.



I'm pleased with the periscope's rubber "gaiter". I made this by putting a piece of Evergreen rod in my Dremel, turning it to a cone, then carving the corrugations with a file. It's drilled down the centre for another length of brass rod to keep it all strong.



Just realised it needs a new ventillator to replace the standard M113 one....  ::) Easy enough to fix.

All I need to do now, once the rest of the vehicle's assembled, is paint the insides of the missile troughs, cut down the missile box pivot pin and seal it in place with little discs at each end, and then stick the "up" box's open exhaust cover on. 
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline father ennis

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2013, 07:54:51 AM »
That's looking fantastic !!! 
I may be old but I'm not dead ... yet anyway ... !!!    And NO I did not know Richard III !!!!!!

Offline Gingie

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2013, 09:47:08 PM »
the corrugated dust cover looks excellent. Gotta love the 'poor man's dremel lathe'!!

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2013, 05:17:35 AM »
Wow that looks a treat! I especially like the railings and the cool periscope!

Brian da Basher

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2013, 08:25:07 PM »
You do realise this will now appear on the Combat Reform website as further proof of the versatility of the super-uber-M113 compared to the "wheeled death traps"?  ;D ;D

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2013, 08:38:44 PM »
You do realise this will now appear on the Combat Reform website as further proof of the versatility of the super-uber-M113 compared to the "wheeled death traps"?  ;D ;D

[Capt Mainwaring voice/] You silly, silly boy![/Capt Mainwaring voice]

 ;D

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Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2013, 12:31:17 AM »
You do realise this will now appear on the Combat Reform website as further proof of the versatility of the super-uber-M113 compared to the "wheeled death traps"?  ;D ;D

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

I'm still awfully tempted by the idea of doing a blown-to-bits-by-an-IED one with the nickname "Sparky's Magic Bucket" just still visible on the side............ >:D
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2013, 02:19:26 PM »
"Sparky's Death Trap" would be more appropriate...

I wonder how many though, would get the reference to Sparky?  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Weaver

  • Skyhawk stealer and violator of Panthers, with designs on a Cougar and a Tiger too
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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2013, 05:35:58 AM »
Okay, first photo update in a while, but also last one for a bit because I'm going to have to put this one on hold while I do something for the Coulda Woulda Shoulda GB.



I originally painted the two turreted vehicles with Humbrol Bronze Green, but I thought it was too dark (scale colour and all that). However I then noticed that Revell Bronze Green was a bit lighter so that's now the standard base colour. I also used a Revell "not quite black" colour for the cammo on the FSV, but it came out patchily glossy. Not sure if that's down to the paint itself or the heat making it dry fast, but unfortunately, it's almost exactly the wrong way around: FV-432s had a glossy bronze green finish from the factory and then got random patches of very matt black applied by the units. What I might do is give them a coat of satin varnish then overpaint the black with a thinned version of itself and see how that works.

The Section Vehicle is finally staying together: I've glued it together twice in the last week, only to have it fall apart again... >:D  Not sure what the problem was: it's been very hot here which might have affected the glue, but on the other hand, it was Revell Contacta from the new plastic bottles that failed and the stuff that worked was from an older glass bottle, so I wonder if the glue is reacting with the bottle in some way?

The turret is the "big option" from an Airfix/JB Saracen and it's on a collar to raise it up, but it still looks lost... I replaced the Browning MG barrel with it's perforated jacket with a more modern GPMG one, made from two bits of brass wire on a revised mounting.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 05:38:40 AM by Weaver »
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
Minds.com: @HaroldWeaverSmith

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2013, 03:46:33 AM »
They sure look the business, Weaver!

Brian da Basher

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: What If the British Army bought the M113?
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2013, 04:52:43 AM »
 And how! Took the time to go back over the thread as a whole, and I have to admire the expansive
 concept on display. ( And everything looks better with a Scorpion/Scimitar turret parked on top. )