Author Topic: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 131052 times)

Offline tsrjoe

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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2012, 07:17:45 AM »
But nobody has  passed comment on the HAL Tejas as an option!!!

The other obvious one no-one has mentioned - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and get Flankers! They're rugged and reliable, and remarkably cheap for a big, twin engined plane, so even those of us on a budget could afford lots of them. It has 14 hardpoints to carry a huge load of weapons, lots of range, and is probably more agile than any other fighter on the planet. If you want “commonality” between different roles and forces, it comes in a variety of types including single seat air defence fighter, two-seat multi-role fighter, naval version, two seat dedicated strike jet, and super-agile thrust-vectoring models.

If you can't get a licence to make them yourselves, I'd go for Chinese-made over Russian (who have some, er, quality control issues...), and you could either get just the airframe and engines and put in your own avionics, or just go the whole hog and take them as they are, since most of our electronics come from China anyway...

The other major advantage of getting Flankers is we would then know exactly what potential enemies can do. It creates a level playing field, and given the West is always claiming to have better training and tactics (and I don't doubt it) we'd be pretty secure we'd win any clash.

Paul

Again (and I'm a Flanker fan,) Cheap is a relative term you need to add a lot of avionics and equipment. the JSF sensor suite is nothing to sneeze at.

 Air to Air is not what worries me, its integrated air defenses. Duke Cunningham, the USN's only Ace in Vietnam was downed by a SAM after getting his fifth kill.  The Majority of American Aircraft from Nam to today have been downed by stuff "fired up" from the ground. You can win clashes and still take serious losses. 1/4 of all Vietnam missions from about 1970 onwards were SEAD. Still lost scores of machines.  Great pilots can fall to SAMs and triple A (and many have)

I love Flankers but even the Russians see the need to replace them, hence the T-50.  I like the thought though, even if I disagree with the logic behind it  ;)
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2012, 08:32:44 AM »
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/695515/posts

Article by retired Navy Admiral and Grumman Exec about Americanizing the Flanker. Its the "dry version" no pretty pictures but a fun read  :)
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2012, 11:51:37 AM »
What gets ordered when (if) F-35 is cancelled? The F-15 Active II, of course!  >:D



None of that promotional "Silent" Eagle mumbo-jumbo. To paraphrase Thomas Conolly: Senator, there is not enough RAM in all of Christendom to make the Eagle stealthy!

I thought the M61 Vulcan could be moved to the aircraft's belly, with parts of the gun faired-in much like the F-4E's six-shooter. It'd loose a little ammo drum capacity in the process, though.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2012, 01:20:36 PM »
No, but there's some design approaches you can take to reduce the signature much like the Super Hornet inlets have rather lower signatures than the basic Hornet inlets and, in the process, incorporate some changes that reduce the airframe signature further.  Really reducing the inlet signature require a redesign to be more like the F-22 or T-50 inlets but there's still a fair bit that can be done with the existing inlets.  Given how the F-15 wing attaches, you've also got room for design there.  I'm not sure if going to 2-D vectoring nozzles is worth the cost difference between those and incorporating nozzles to the existing engines that embody the results of the LOAN and AVEN programs (the F-35's engine, for example, definitely incorporates aspects of the LOAN program).

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2012, 03:40:11 AM »
Hi folks,

Would everyone be happy if we merge this thread with the
"F-35 Ideas and Inspiration" one?  PM me if need be so as to avoid clogging up this discussion - unless I receive negative replies, I will assume it is approved.

Kind Regards,

Greg
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2012, 07:08:02 AM »
A photo to salute the story above about the USMC getting their first F-35Bs:



Click on the pic for a hi-Rez version.

Regards,

Greg
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2012, 07:27:06 AM »

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2012, 07:32:49 AM »
Something done by someone ages ago:
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Offline dy031101

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2012, 09:29:18 AM »
Yes, maybe laws of aerodynamics left little room for variations, but it's hard for a new comer to come up with a F135-class turbofan in the first few tries.  So what do you do?  Make it twin-engined of course.  ;)

Where I found the pic.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 09:35:56 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Paul Wagner

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2012, 03:23:21 PM »
Air to Air is not what worries me ...The Majority of American Aircraft from Nam to today have been downed by stuff "fired up" from the ground.

Well that all depends on whether you want an Air Force to defend your homeland, or to bomb the crap out of other people's homelands :)

If the former, Air to Air is paramount, if the latter, then yeah you have to worry about "stuff fired up from the ground".....

Paul

Offline elmayerle

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2012, 04:00:01 PM »
Paul, that's one of the useful aspects of the all-aspects vision of the F-35's DAS, your sensors are scanning the full volume around the aircraft for things coming up from the ground or elsewhere.  Combine that with the "Pilot's Associate" to help manage the workload for the pilot (think of it as a very early R2 approximation) and you've got a very effective aircraft.

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2012, 04:04:04 AM »
    A couple of simple ideas:

    • Iranian F-35...especially if the Shah never fell
    • German F-35...maybe the Typhoon program totally collapsed in the '90s
    • RAF F-35B...the perfect Harrier replacement ...especially if done up in a camouflage scheme for FOB ops
    • Swedish F-35...maybe after the collapse of Saab, the aircraft is purchased...any excuse to see a F-35 on Swedish Splinter scheme
    • Spanish F-35B...Harrier replacement...one I expect we will see for real in coming years
    • Swiss F-35B...perfect for fighting from those caves...
    • Venezuelan F-35...maybe in another Universe...

    Regards,

    Greg
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 04:06:04 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2012, 04:34:27 AM »
Whoa! That F-22/F-35 hybrid is interesting!

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Offline simmie

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Re: What gets ordered when (if) F-35 cancelled
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2012, 09:18:19 AM »
This thread was started after I read an article in the January issue of Air International about the US and its slight budget problem.
The article referred to the KC-X, LAS and F-35 programmes, and the degree of risk that each is under.

The highlights are as follows: (some of you may well now all this already, so sorry if I am boring you)
Budget cuts of $1.2 Trillion from Jan 2013, half of this from the defence budget.

USAF COS General Norton Schwartz priorities are KC-X and F-35, not LAS.

KC-X
Boeing has stated that it will exceed the cost ceiling by $500 Million.  They will have to absorb this as it is a fixed price contract ($4.8 Billion).

There are no technical problems with the aircraft and Boeing say they are on track to assemble 7 aircraft in 2015, 12 in 2016 and 15 a year thereafter.

F-35
The 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin AFB was supposed to have started training flight and ground crews in November 2009, this has still not started.  They received their first aircraft July 2011 (08-0747).  By mid October they had half a dozen aircraft, the 6th being 08-0751.  However, they haven’t flown a single sortie as the Air Force Test and Evaluation boss has decreed only test pilots are allowed to fly the aircraft.  Thus 08-0746, 08-0748, 08-0749 and 08-0750 are not expected to fly for another year.

Air Force ground crew are not allowed to touch the aircraft, but they can watch civilian contractors.

The 33rd were supposed to get 107 aircraft, but are now getting 59 due to noise concerns!!  The F-35A is 9 db louder than an F-15 on mil T/O power, or twice as loud.

The Programme was estimated to cost $276 Billion, now it is projected to cost $623 Billion.  It is the most expensive American weapon system of all time.  The average cost per aircraft was $82 Million is now $95 Million, and some say it will eventually reach $195 Million or more.

In 2010 Robert Gates fired the programme manager and said that he would with-hold a $614 Million payment to Lockheed Martin.  However, once the fuss had died down, no one told the Pentagon not to pay the money.

The F-35B is in greatest jeopardy as Schwartz would let it die to save the A model.

LAS
LAS is in disarray after USAF disqualified the AT-6 Texan II.  Hawker Beechcraft has made 2 attempts to find out why, no response from the Air Force.  The rival team of Sierra Nevada and Embraer say that they have not been informed of the program’s status.

The programme is for 20 aircraft for the Afghan Air Force to be delivered this year.  The USAF hopped to obtain 100 aircraft for use by USAF Special Ops.  A $17 Million request to evaluate the Super Tucano in-theatre by US Central Command (under Combat Dragon II) was rejected by lawmakers.  There is also no funding to continue the AT-6 flight trials.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 06:55:21 PM by simmie »
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2012, 10:46:49 AM »
Folks,

I have merged the "what gets ordered if the F-35 gets cancelled" topic into this one.  If anyone finds the ordering of the replies a little confusing, that is why. 

Regards,

Greg
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2012, 04:08:53 AM »
A comparison between the X-35 and the F-35 from CodeOne Magazine:








Regards,

Greg
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2012, 08:01:31 AM »








All three variants^ (So far  ;) )
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2012, 08:03:46 AM »
I like the Super- F-35 with twin engines.
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2012, 04:11:43 AM »

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2012, 04:36:48 AM »
Scan of a poster I actually have on my office wall at work:

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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2012, 04:46:11 AM »
F-35 First Night Flight
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2012, 02:26:48 AM »
External Weapons trials (Better Pictures):


« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 02:03:34 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2012, 02:31:24 AM »
Assembling a F-35...a tad more than glue required (and this doesn't even cover all the subcontractor work that is needed beforehand):

Production F-35


regards,

Greg
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Re: F-35 Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2012, 02:41:00 AM »
One day...maybe:

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