Author Topic: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers  (Read 26561 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« on: September 15, 2012, 03:06:05 AM »
Hi folks,

A thread for your Hawk/Goshawk Ideas and Inspiration.



Regards,

Greg
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 03:09:16 AM »
To begin with (and inspired by deathjester's recent Royal Navy SeaHawk II), what about a USMC A-45 Goshawk Light Attack Aircraft.  Base it on the Hawk200 single seat version and have it operating in a STOBAR fashion from Ski-jump equipped LHAs/LHDs instead of HArriers.
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Offline deathjester

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 04:15:12 AM »
It might require conversion around the cockpit area on a standard 2 seater Hawk kit to make a single seater, unless one of you has a stash of -200's...

Offline kitnut617

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 05:04:12 AM »
I quite like that idea, I've got a 1/72 '200' in the stash too.  I'll look into what is involved with dropping it in rubber and make some copies.

Offline kengeorge

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 06:11:07 AM »
Hi Guys,
  As Deathjester has used an Adour 25R with afterburning for his Seahawk II, what other engine could be used without too much surgery?
 And there's me thinking about shoe-horning an RB199 minus the A/B into a hawk with a major re-design of the rear fuselage.
Any comments?
Ken...


Offline deathjester

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 06:29:18 AM »
I quite like that idea, I've got a 1/72 '200' in the stash too.  I'll look into what is involved with dropping it in rubber and make some copies.
Oh, yes please!

That would make a great whiff kit...

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2012, 02:34:23 AM »
Of course rather than have to use a Hawk 200 conversion one could always either fill in the rear cockpit with electronics or fuel or similar or even go the 'whole hog' such as this:



Standard Hawk 200 shown at bottom with modified "Attack Hawk" shown top.

Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 04:05:28 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 04:02:55 AM »
A Goshawk Chris did for me a while back as part of the Greater Australia story:

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2012, 04:34:21 AM »
Speaking of the Goshawk, I see Lucky Model are taking pre-orders for the new 1/48 Kinetic T-45:

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2012, 12:29:40 PM »
Hawk UAV anyone?


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Offline upnorth

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 03:53:54 PM »
I like the idea of keeping the two seat shape. It does have certain advantages if you look at a corollary design:

Aero L-39 Albatros as a base design:


Turns into Aero L-159 ALCA, Rear cockpit area kept for electronics, nose design adjusted for radar related gear:


Retaining the two seater layout allows for L-159 specific trainer to be built:


Granted the L-159 is, barring the family resemblance, a completely new aircraft with no parts commonality to the L-39, but it still does show the wisdom of keeping the rear pit area available. The idea is not without other precedent as well:

The Mitsubishi F-1 kept the rear cockpit area of the T-2 that it was derived from.
The Sukhoi Su-39 was derived from the two seat variant of the Su-25.

One thing that I think would make an interesting alternative to a radar equipped Hawk would be one with a nose extension to house a laser designator.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 04:00:20 PM by upnorth »
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2012, 09:54:35 PM »
Of course rather than have to use a Hawk 200 conversion one could always either fill in the rear cockpit with electronics or fuel or similar or even go the 'whole hog' such as this:



Regards,

Greg


I like the 'bubble' type canopy of the '200' for better all-around visibility.  But if you look at it, the '200' pilot is actually sitting where the back seat would be on the Hawk, and it would seem all they've done is fill the front seat area with equipment

Offline deathjester

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 01:16:47 AM »
I wonder if an F/A-18A Hornet canopy would fit on a Hawk 100 ?

Does anybody have a kit of each so they can offer the two up to each other?  :)

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 02:32:48 AM »
Variation with FLIR nose and avionics in rear cockpit.  Should also allow for increased all round vision.

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Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2012, 07:41:42 AM »
Variation with FLIR nose and avionics in rear cockpit.  Should also allow for increased all round vision.




Im liking this setup.. It just "looks" right... Also it reminds me of certain F-15 variants... Not sure of the nose though

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2012, 07:52:03 AM »
How about a Harrier GR9 nose?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2012, 09:10:01 AM »
It might require conversion around the cockpit area on a standard 2 seater Hawk kit to make a single seater, unless one of you has a stash of -200's...
Or one can acquire the Neomega conversion kits.  I most definitely want to get one of their 1/48th ones to use on a Kinetics T-45C.

Offline Geoff

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2012, 02:07:59 PM »
Variation with FLIR nose and avionics in rear cockpit.  Should also allow for increased all round vision.





I built one of these in Polish service, but cannot find a pic. Edit - found it.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 02:13:55 PM by Geoff »

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2012, 03:31:22 AM »
Outstanding!!! :)
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2012, 03:32:18 AM »
Not sure of the nose though


It is basically the nose of the latter versions of the Hawk:

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2012, 03:36:07 AM »
Hmmm...that picture makes me wonder...Hawk derived Forward Air Controller in this scheme (the PC-9 that is):



BTW, the artist is Conway Bown and you can see more here
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 03:11:31 PM »
Variation with FLIR nose and avionics in rear cockpit.  Should also allow for increased all round vision.




I've decided to bring this back up as I don't want to completely derail the new acquisitions thread.

I recently bought Airfix's 1/72 Hawk T.Mk.1 and have decided to have a go  at a light attack variation

The premise is this:

The entire Hawk 200 program is shelved. Initially this is the result of lukewarm response to the type by potential customers; however, the 1986 crash of a demonstrator aircraft which killed the pilot was also key in the decision to halt work on it.

One comment that BAe reps heard frequently from potential customers was that they might be more interested if the attack version had more commonality with the baseline Hawk for ease of maintenance. Several said that they would happily forgo the radar in favor of optical and thermal targeting devices.

With this information, the representatives recommended engineers and designers to work inside the existing Hawk T.Mk.1 lines to develop the attack variant.

The first step was to gut the rear cockpit and refit it as an avionics compartment. Some of the equipment from the nose was relocated into the new compartment to make room for an LRMTS fairing on top of the nose section. Consequently, the nose mounted pitot tube was relocated to the vertical fin leading edge.

Other changes were smaller in order to keep as much commonality as possible. Antenna fit was altered to fit the attack role, this included the RWR receiver on the vertical fin.

Some thought was also given to possible users in developing nations who might have rougher airfield conditions; as such, the landing gear doors were reworked to allow large sections of them to remain closed except on take off and landing rotations.

All of this resulted in a machine which the RAF, who ordered a squadron worth for evaluation, referred to as the Hawk Gr.Mk.3. The evaluation unit was given the 64 Squadron number plate.

When the new aircraft was put on demonstration, to many of the same countries the Hawk 200 was demonstrated to, the response was markedly warmer; particularly when the commonalities between it and the baseline Hawk were demonstrated.

Meanwhile, 64 squadron, who operated the type for a period of five years through the late 80s and early 90s, was gathering a wealth of data on operations with it and compiling a list of suggested improvements.

Enough orders were confirmed to justify production and many of the recommendations made by RAF pilots were instituted in the new Hawk 100 airframe seen in the profile above.

While the RAF ultimately saw the light attack Hawk variant as superfluous to requirements, they did take the Hawk 100 on as the T.Mk.2.

Several nations have purchased the light attack Hawk and others are considering it. It is often perceived as a direct competitor to the Czech L-59 ALCA; however, this is somewhat of a misconception as the attack Hawk has much more commonality with the basic Hawk while the Czech aircraft has only a family resemblance to the L-39 Albatros that it descended from and no commonality with it. As such, L-39 user nations would not enjoy the same benefits of ease of maintenance on the L-159 that Hawk users would on the Hawk 100 series.

From an operational standpoint, the two are comparable. However, from a selling point of view, the Czech aircraft has been largely sales proof while the Hawk continues to sell.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2012, 01:31:48 PM »
Hmm, just a thought for a single-seat Hawk 100 variant.  Keep the basic avionics in the nose that it has now and take the path Aermacchi used with the MB-326K and MB-339K, fit two cannon as "cheek guns" and put the ammo storage and feed where the second seat was.  This leaves all your hardpoints for other ordnance.  Damn, now i'm going to have to play with this idea further.

Offline upnorth

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 04:27:25 AM »
Hmm, just a thought for a single-seat Hawk 100 variant.  Keep the basic avionics in the nose that it has now and take the path Aermacchi used with the MB-326K and MB-339K, fit two cannon as "cheek guns" and put the ammo storage and feed where the second seat was.  This leaves all your hardpoints for other ordnance.  Damn, now i'm going to have to play with this idea further.

Maybe, but does the Hawk actually have a centre line pylon or is that station specifically for the Aden cannon or travel/smoke pod?

The only time I've ever seen a Hawk with a centre line pylon was a single picture of one of the Hawk 200 demonstrators with a mock up Sea Eagle mounted.
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 04:43:53 AM »
Hmm, just a thought for a single-seat Hawk 100 variant.  Keep the basic avionics in the nose that it has now and take the path Aermacchi used with the MB-326K and MB-339K, fit two cannon as "cheek guns" and put the ammo storage and feed where the second seat was.  This leaves all your hardpoints for other ordnance.  Damn, now i'm going to have to play with this idea further.

Cool thinking.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 06:00:59 AM »
*chuckle* It comes from having worked with Aermacchi on both the MB.326K and MB.339 (and seeing concepts, then, for the MB.339K).  Damn, when I think back on it, that was forty years ago this past summer.  It doesn't seem near as long.

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 10:12:30 AM »
Letting your age show mate. ;)
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2012, 10:33:07 AM »
Letting your age show mate. ;)
*laughs uproariously* It beats the daylights out of not being around to do so.

I think I'll need to play with this concept further but I can see some definitely possibilities.  I wonder if it would need Sabrinas like the Hunter did?

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2012, 10:33:50 AM »
Sabrinas are always good. ;)
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2012, 10:45:35 AM »
Sabrinas are always good. ;)
Yeah, and I'm old enough to have seen pictures of their "namesake".  I'm starting to think a mix of bits from a couple first-generation Harrier gunpods and a couple suitable shapes would work nicely here.  *grin* Perhaps extend the shell-collectors to add chaff/flare dispensers like the Swiss did?

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2012, 03:13:36 AM »
Of course rather than have to use a Hawk 200 conversion one could always either fill in the rear cockpit with electronics or fuel or similar or even go the 'whole hog' such as this:



Standard Hawk 200 shown at bottom with modified "Attack Hawk" shown top.

Regards,

Greg

Variation with FLIR nose and avionics in rear cockpit.  Should also allow for increased all round vision.




Back when I was doing armed variants of my Goshawk II/Navalised Hawk 100 profiles, I did consider converting it to a single seater along those lines but wasn't happy with the way I'd shaded and weathered the blanked-over cockpit.

Comparison:


^Click for larger^

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2012, 06:43:56 AM »
 Refresh my memory on a couple of points, friends- the only kit of the Hawk 200 was the Matchbox
 in 1/72? Its really one of the few  "modern" jets I like, and I would like to build one some day.

 And ..."Sabrinas"? 

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2012, 07:36:48 AM »
You're right, the only full kit of a 200 is the Matchbox 1/72 one, but Neomega do/did both a 1/72 and a 1/48 conversion to build a 200

http://www.neomega-resin.com/hawk.htm
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 07:39:18 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2012, 07:59:06 AM »
  And ..."Sabrinas"?
The link collectors for the Hunter's cannons.  Named for a rather buxom actress of the period.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2012, 07:59:38 AM »
You're right, the only full kit of a 200 is the Matchbox 1/72 one, but Neomega do/did both a 1/72 and a 1/48 conversion to build a 200

http://www.neomega-resin.com/hawk.htm

Yep, got examples of both to use.

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2012, 02:43:32 PM »
  And ..."Sabrinas"?
The link collectors for the Hunter's cannons.  Named for a rather buxom actress of the period.

Google "Norma Ann Sykes"
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2012, 02:44:03 PM »
Of course rather than have to use a Hawk 200 conversion one could always either fill in the rear cockpit with electronics or fuel or similar or even go the 'whole hog' such as this:



Standard Hawk 200 shown at bottom with modified "Attack Hawk" shown top.

Regards,

Greg

Variation with FLIR nose and avionics in rear cockpit.  Should also allow for increased all round vision.




Back when I was doing armed variants of my Goshawk II/Navalised Hawk 100 profiles, I did consider converting it to a single seater along those lines but wasn't happy with the way I'd shaded and weathered the blanked-over cockpit.

Comparison:


^Click for larger^


Brilliant!
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Offline Weaver

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2012, 08:21:40 PM »
IIRC, there was, at least in the early days, a proposal for a Hawk 200 variant with a FLIR/LRMTS nose as well as the radar one. This was in the days when they were stil talking about it having 2 x 25mm ADENs in the lower fuselage.

I'm sure there was colour artwork with the attack version in the background and the radar version in front.

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2012, 09:05:11 PM »
Well, it seems odd to me that with the extensive braintrust of creators in-house, nobody has come up with the definite, single seat, bubbletop BTS version of the hawk..... >:D :-* 8) :) ;)
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Offline Rafael

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2012, 11:54:41 PM »
Great one, José. You really hit it with this one!!
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Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2012, 02:08:56 AM »
That looks spot on, Jose !   :D

Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2012, 02:18:04 AM »
Gorgeous piece of work there, Jose, and real tempting.

Weaver, I may try to do a Hawk 200 with the FLIR/LRMTS in the nose; 'twould be something different for a dedicated attack bird.  I'll ahve to take inventory of all my kits to see if I can do such.

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2012, 02:36:47 AM »
Well, it seems odd to me that with the extensive braintrust of creators in-house, nobody has come up with the definite, single seat, bubbletop BTS version of the hawk..... >:D :-* 8) :) ;)

Well there is a challenge if ever I saw one...maybe an F-16 or F-18 canopy?
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Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2012, 03:26:43 AM »
Nah i see Jaguar canopy..

Offline Rafael

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2012, 03:51:05 AM »
Well, it seems odd to me that with the extensive braintrust of creators in-house, nobody has come up with the definite, single seat, bubbletop BTS version of the hawk..... >:D :-* 8) :) ;)

Well there is a challenge if ever I saw one...maybe an F-16 or F-18 canopy?

My personal preference is bubbletop, teardrop shape like the ones you mentioned.

Would be nice if they had the cockpit a little more elevated, too

Edit: a quick-and-dirty graft (not that I would have made any better having more time)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 03:59:51 AM by Rafael »
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2012, 06:14:19 AM »
Nah i see Jaguar canopy..

Harrier --

Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2012, 06:37:39 AM »
I only meant going off Jose's profile... His profile looks like a Jag canopy to me...

But yeah if you want to stick to teardrop then yes Harrier... Deffo

Offline Rafael

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2012, 08:58:21 AM »
But yeah if you want to stick to teardrop then yes Harrier... Deffo

Yes!

I'm not sure if the F16 and Harrier canopies are drawn to scale
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 09:00:06 AM by Rafael »
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Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2013, 07:11:58 AM »
Ok bit of a odd one... I have the old Airfix "Red arrows"  Hawk (A68005) in my possesion and since it looks pretty nasty tbf ive decided potentially ruining it is no concern.. So a quick out of box is to be done. Might chill me out after the last build became a year long mission....

...But it has pylons ... and weapons in the box :)

Anyone know what parts go where if i was gonna use them !? :)

And by "if" i obviously mean "Will"   ;D

Offline deathjester

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2013, 10:47:27 PM »
Ok bit of a odd one... I have the old Airfix "Red arrows"  Hawk (A68005) in my possesion and since it looks pretty nasty tbf ive decided potentially ruining it is no concern.. So a quick out of box is to be done. Might chill me out after the last build became a year long mission....

...But it has pylons ... and weapons in the box :)

Anyone know what parts go where if i was gonna use them !? :)

And by "if" i obviously mean "Will"   ;D
How do you mean?

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2013, 02:38:46 AM »
The drop tanks in the 1:48 Airfix Red Arrows kit look to be big enough for a current era Khemed to use as a pylon based recce pod.   
(Checks stash....YeS! There is just such a kit already in possession)
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2013, 07:14:17 AM »
It comes with proper pylons and what appears to be rocket pods and fuel tanks...

But all the pylons are different shapes so i cant figure out which pylons go where and with what on them :(

Offline deathjester

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2013, 04:30:55 AM »
Oh, ok - larger/deeper pylons inboard, generally carrying the drop tanks, and smaller/more streamlined ones outboard for rockets, bombs, missiles etc.

If you need more of an idea, I'll see if I can find pics.

Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2013, 06:08:12 AM »
Nice one !! That should give me enough to go on :D

Pics would be nice though but dont panic its gonna be a lil while till then.. Im trying to fix up the cockpit still lol

Thanks again :)

Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2013, 03:23:38 AM »
Any luck on those pics deathjester ? Its mostly in one peice now so im onto fitting out :)

Offline deathjester

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2013, 06:17:48 AM »
Sorry I haven't replied yet - I missed this in the posts list!

Is this ok?



Offline ChrisF

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2013, 10:17:55 PM »
It was too late im afraid i had to press on, thank you anyway ! :)

This is where i decided to take it :

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=3296.0

:D

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2014, 03:00:22 AM »
Anyone want to have a go at modelling this one:

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2014, 05:35:24 AM »
Nice Photo:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2014, 09:20:35 AM »
What's the box above the exhaust?

Offline Scooterman

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2014, 09:47:33 AM »
Chaff/flare buckets.

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2014, 04:44:46 PM »
Wicked load out:
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Weaver

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2014, 04:46:53 PM »
Wicked load out:

Be even better if the caption was right: those are Skyflashes, not AMRAAMs.
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2014, 04:59:45 PM »
True...it is still a interesting load out though.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2014, 08:28:44 PM »
Is that a real 'load-out' Greg, or photo-shopped.  I wouldn't have thought there was enough ground clearance going by my models of the aircraft, especially the Sea Eagle

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2014, 02:34:51 AM »
It could carry and was trialled with such:




Hmmm…RN FAA Hawk operating off light carriers... ;)
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2014, 03:39:18 AM »
A-ha! now I see what they did, the u/c has been extended, all the kits I have of the Hawk has the trailing arm almost horizontal.

Just dug out my Goshawk and laid a Martel on the centerline, no way it could operated the way the gear is posed there.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 03:40:56 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Weaver

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2014, 04:45:50 AM »
Just been reading a piece on Pprune about the Hawk by a guy who was the photographer at Dunsfold (he may well have taken those pics  ;) ). His opinion was that a lot of the stores "trialled" on Hawk demonstrators were just marketing stunts rather than realistic options. This applied to both Skyflash and Sea Eagle. Apparently, ground clearance with the latter was so marginal that it took them ages to load the missile due to having to wriggle it under the aircraft (remember when looking at it fitted that a substantial trolley has to get under there too).

The wierdest thing he saw hung on a Hawk was a Stingray torpedo! He couldn't get any sense out of anyone about how that was supposed to work. The standing joke at Flight Test was that Marketing had an Airfix kit of the Hawk and a really big spares box full of weapons which they dipped into at random... ;D
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2014, 05:15:39 AM »
Here's a question, does the Hawk have the capability to 'pump up' the u/c shock to raise the aircraft for more ground clearance ?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2014, 08:54:20 AM »
Just been reading a piece on Pprune about the Hawk by a guy who was the photographer at Dunsfold (he may well have taken those pics  ;) ). His opinion was that a lot of the stores "trialled" on Hawk demonstrators were just marketing stunts rather than realistic options. This applied to both Skyflash and Sea Eagle. Apparently, ground clearance with the latter was so marginal that it took them ages to load the missile due to having to wriggle it under the aircraft (remember when looking at it fitted that a substantial trolley has to get under there too).

Well, they appear to have tried it at least twice, with separate aircraft so it can't have been too hard...

Quote
The wierdest thing he saw hung on a Hawk was a Stingray torpedo! He couldn't get any sense out of anyone about how that was supposed to work. The standing joke at Flight Test was that Marketing had an Airfix kit of the Hawk and a really big spares box full of weapons which they dipped into at random... ;D

A Stingray would be pretty pointless 'cause you'd need a separate "hunter" aircraft.   I like that idea of an Airfix kit though.  Sort of explains a lot about aircraft pictures...  ;)

Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2014, 09:18:21 AM »
The idea of such a hunter-killer team suggests a two-seat Harrier with pods able to deploy MAD sensors and working with a Sea Harrier carrying a couple Stingrays.  For the Hawk, or derivatives, it really doesn't make sense.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2014, 09:41:03 AM »
Just been reading a piece on Pprune about the Hawk by a guy who was the photographer at Dunsfold (he may well have taken those pics  ;) ).


I assume you are referring to this discussion?
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Offline Weaver

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2014, 10:00:40 AM »
Yep.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2014, 10:05:38 AM »
Another impressive load out:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Weaver

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2014, 06:39:07 PM »
Another impressive load out:




And at 4,500 lbs, that's still only about 2/3rds of the max payload limit. If it had the later wings, you could add a couple of Sidewinders to that lot.... 8)
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2016, 03:08:15 AM »
Random idea:  Roulettes Hawk
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2016, 04:10:16 AM »
^ Got a kit and appropriate decals in the stash for doing just that! ;)
Cheers,
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2016, 09:55:35 PM »
RAN FAA Blue and white trainer scheme on Hawk or Goshawk

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2016, 03:03:53 AM »
Not quite RAN markings but close enough to give you an idea:

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Offline Volkodav

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2017, 11:55:39 PM »
Hobby Boss are releasing a Hawk 200 in 1/48!

Got me thinking.......

CAC manufacture Hawk in Australia, co develop the Hawk 100 and 200 series and builds the aircraft ordered by Malaysia and Indonesia.  Also produces hybrid Goshawk 100 and 200 series aircraft for the RAN and Brazil.  The RAN aircraft fly from the life extended HMAS Melbourne and Adelaide (ex HMCS Bonaventure acquired in 1970 as a replacement for Sydney) from the early 90s, instead of the originally planned enhanced Skyhawks, along side the Turbo Trackers and Tracers.  The type goes on to serve on the replacement carriers, the evolved WASP CVS (shallow angle, arrester gear and catapult) into the 2010s

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2017, 07:35:24 AM »
RNZAF SkyHawk-200


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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2017, 01:52:01 AM »
Interesting
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #82 on: November 23, 2017, 11:23:06 PM »
Hawk-200 + Strikemaster


Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2020, 04:11:28 AM »
I wonder:  If the RN had stayed in the conventional carrier game would we have seen something akin to a British Goshawk trainer with the RN FAA?
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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2020, 04:27:23 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2020, 12:33:31 PM »
AT-45 carrier-based light strike aircraft crossing the T-45 and the Hawk 200?

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2021, 03:39:50 AM »
Random idea:  Flygvapnet Hawk instead of Saab 105 - maybe in the 1990s instead of updating the 105s to the Sk 60W variant, they go with a Mk.100 variant of the Hawk?
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Offline Kerick

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Re: HSA/BAe/BAE Systems/MCD Hawk/Goshawk Trainers
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2021, 07:37:04 AM »
I’ve got a couple of Hawks in the stash I should get out and build one of these days.