Beyond The Sprues

Current and Finished Projects => Profiles and Pixels => Topic started by: Small brown dog on August 21, 2019, 08:19:02 PM

Title: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 21, 2019, 08:19:02 PM
Well this is a wonderful place full of types that would not shy away from a radial Spitfire, a trimotor Mosquito and perhaps the odd flying Jagdpanther. Its not short of a great deal of drool inducement in both polystyrene and pixel form either. I have no idea how I have missed this place before but it is a welcome find.

Not sure if anyone has been to Duxford lately but there is a new engine exhibit in the Airspace building:

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Kestrel%20Electric%20XXX.jpg)

The Kestrel ELectric XXX was the Hawker (Hunting) Hound MK4b power unit coupled with the  legendary Aero Electric SBD-146/58 field coil spool.

I found a couple of old period adverts too:

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Kestrel%20XXX.jpg)
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/The%2058.jpg)

If you go looking for this engine at Duxford you will need to hunt for it as it’s a bit like trying to locate platform 9 3/4. Duxford is also home to one of the currently airworthy Hound Mk4b's

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Duxford%20Hound%20Mk4b.jpg)

I can give a full history of the Hound and a background history of Aero Electrical flight if anyone is interested though it might be a bit sleep inducing as I'm just a small brown dog with too much time on its paws, mucking about and re writing aviation history one aircraft at a time from a location slightly south of lost.

I work in 3D and composite in Photoshop which is just a fancy way of saying I photo bash my own 3D creations.

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Big Gimper on August 21, 2019, 08:39:59 PM
Great work.

You should send your work to Elon.  ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 21, 2019, 08:58:13 PM
Great work.

You should send your work to Elon.  ;D

No time to go to Mars  - there's a war on!

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 21, 2019, 11:23:30 PM
Give us what you got, Brother SBD! We can handle it, we're Whiffers! 8) :smiley: ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 21, 2019, 11:30:52 PM
Give us what you got, Brother SBD! We can handle it, we're Whiffers! 8) :smiley: ;)

Thats done it - you only have yourselves to blame now   ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on August 22, 2019, 12:55:02 AM
Welcome aboard SBD!  Great entrance and thank you for finding us worthy of your time and participation. 







***edit for grammar/spelling that slipped by me on the first attempt.--jjf
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on August 22, 2019, 02:10:41 AM
Welcome aboard SBD!  Great entrance and thank your for finding us worthy of your time and participation.
Seconded!!  That's gorgeous work!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 22, 2019, 02:16:47 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 22, 2019, 02:57:49 AM
Welcome aboard SBD! You'll fit right in here at BtS, 'Dog  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on August 22, 2019, 06:55:35 AM
Truly awesome engines! I never knew that Tesla sold his AG coil licenses to RR.

If this is yours, I think Brian will have a fainting spell when he sees the spats:

https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/A-break-in-the-weather-729996091 (https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/A-break-in-the-weather-729996091)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 22, 2019, 04:14:41 PM
Truly awesome engines! I never knew that Tesla sold his AG coil licenses to RR.

If this is yours, I think Brian will have a fainting spell when he sees the spats:

https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/A-break-in-the-weather-729996091 (https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/A-break-in-the-weather-729996091)

RR ??
Oh, you mean the Rolls & Royce partnership in this time line. Sadly, Mr Rolls and Mr Royce never met.  The T coil tech, although vital, only provides the energy (in shed loads) used for EMFEM which is separate but always present in ELG systems which is the younger tech. It is also well known that I am full of crap too ;)

Yes, the Spattage is mine - a MK1 Hawker Hound.
I will post the Hound's history later.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 22, 2019, 04:15:57 PM
By the way gentlemen thanks for the welcome. Much appreciated  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 22, 2019, 05:01:50 PM
Part 1

The Hawker Hound was designed to meet and/or exceed the Air Ministry specification F.20/27 for a multi-engine interceptor design capable of modern bomber interception. This was a period of great change in aero electric aviation of which only the multi engine airframes were able to make full use of its capabilities. Single engine fighter designs whilst retaining good fighting ability were unable to match modern multi engine layouts for speed.

Chief Hawker designer, Sydney Camm, had been against using what he described as “artificial lift generation” in his fighter designs only incorporating EMFEM in his light bomber and army cooperation variants. He argued that the state of the technology was, in the early 1920’s, not mature enough for fighter development. His new design, the Fury, used a powerful so called uncoupled non electrical engine. It was sleek outstandingly manoeuvrable and easily exceeded 200mph in level flight. However, even a fighter with exceptional fighting characteristics is of little use if it cannot catch its prey.

Camm was aware that bomber interception by conventional lift fighter aircraft would, and very soon, be impossible. However, even with the best coupled thrust engines there was still a reliance on conventional flying surfaces for a percentage of lift and for flight control. Camm believed that electrical lift and weight compensation should be used solely for lift and thrust with nothing wasted on overcoming the drag caused by the new equipment and its additional weight. An abundance of power was required and the only way forward at this time was to double the power plant.

So Camm was being forced by necessity to design a twin engine interceptor (not an idea that rested easily with Mr Camm). To give an aeroplane such as the Fury the new Tesla/Royce engine and a reduction in flying surfaces would give a performance similar to that of the new light bombers but it would reduce the agility of the aeroplane and many of the characteristics of a fighter. There would also be severe limitations on fuel and internal equipment. Therefore a twin, at this time, was the only option. He addressed the board saying:

“If we are to build a twin engine aeroplane then we are going to build a fighting twin engine aeroplane. I firmly believe that we are not alone in our concerns over the ever increasing performance of the bomber aircraft. Our thoughts on defence will also be a potential enemy’s thoughts and in addition they, as do I, may think it prudent to develop fighting aircraft that can take on the defenders interceptors.”

“I have a design in mind which will utilise two of the new Tesla/Royce Kestrel engines in a small and light weight airframe. I propose to develop a system that will maximise the lift potential and harmonise the control for the rate of roll.”
“In short,” he continued, ” If we are to use artificial lift then we will damn well lift 100% artificially” “Gentlemen, I’m going to rip the bloody wings off”

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Duxford%20Hound%20Mk1.jpg)
The airworthy Shuttleworth Hawker Hound MK1 N1458 taken at Duxford July 2017

So was born The Hawker Hound, a name Camm didn’t like that much as he really wanted to call it the Twin Fury. The Air Ministry loved the name because it smacks of aggressive pursuing and harassing. The press coined the phrase “Wingless Wonder” and when Hawkers own PR department ran with it Camm was spitting feathers. However the very name would, in the coming years, become synonymous with defiance in the face of aggression,  the later MK4 variants image being quick to come to mind whenever the Battle of Britain is mentioned. It was not for nothing that Dr Alfred Price entitled his ultimate history of the Hawker Hound : Guard Dog.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/A%20break%20in%20the%20weather.jpg)
Rejected first cover image for the Dr Alfred Price Hawker Hound history

Period advert for The airscrew Co Ltd:
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Hound%20Airscrew.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 22, 2019, 10:29:36 PM
 :D :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 22, 2019, 10:45:39 PM
Welcome aboard the madhouse!!!
Your design is wonderful. I can’t help imagining how to build that in plastic. Looks like a Hurricane fuselage on the Mk4b version with Merlin engines. Am I close? A lot of scratch building also but to me that’s the fun part.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 22, 2019, 10:54:29 PM
Welcome aboard the madhouse!!!
Your design is wonderful. I can’t help imagining how to build that in plastic. Looks like a Hurricane fuselage on the Mk4b version with Merlin engines. Am I close? A lot of scratch building also but to me that’s the fun part.

Its very Hurricane everywhere :)
The engines are the Kestrel Electric XXX - think Kestrels on some sort of super steroids that drive the electrical lift generation gear.
To be completely honest I went way off when building the Kestrel as it sort of went all Merlin on me. My Merlin Electric will probably look likfe a mutant Griffon.

I think I might have gone the wrong way about this as perhaps I should posted the background to the tech first - ah well  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 23, 2019, 02:21:58 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 23, 2019, 02:53:12 AM
No problem! The Hound made me curious as to the lift technology which was satisfied by the story. Thanks.
Hmmmm....  Mental images of flying battleships.......
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 02:57:22 AM
No problem! The Hound made me curious as to the lift technology which was satisfied by the story. Thanks.
Hmmmm....  Mental images of flying battleships.......

I have an image if you would like to see a couple of Predator class
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on August 23, 2019, 04:44:01 AM
Have you considered having this 3D printed? It would be awesome.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 04:50:03 AM
Have you considered having this 3D printed? It would be awesome.

It has crossed my mind a few times but then so has Scarlet Johansson and thats not going to happen either :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on August 23, 2019, 05:57:58 AM
I know a guy who can turn that into a 3D model from a suitable .obj or similar file...
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 23, 2019, 06:06:24 AM
This is all so incredibly well done I had to do a double-take, especially on that first amazing picture.

Reminds me of something that could've flown in that Sky Captain flick that was out a while back.

Great stuff and rendered so convincingly it could fool many.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 23, 2019, 06:09:36 AM
I don't think I'm familiar with your work, but seeing the sample you posted I think you'll fit in nicely.

Welcome to BtS and we look forward to seeing more, especially if they have such lovely spats!

 :-*

Ahem. I'm off now to find out if there's any cold water left.
 :-[
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 05:16:56 PM
I know a guy who can turn that into a 3D model from a suitable .obj or similar file...

I would probably have to tweak the crap out of my meshes as I am a really sloppy modeller.
You are not the first to mention 3D printing the MK1 Hound though along with a couple of others and I have wondered about making inroads in that direction myself.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 05:52:07 PM
Hawker Hound Story Part 2

By the mid 1930’s there was a hint of trouble brewing in Europe and there was a new uncoupled thrust power unit under development that on its own could exceed the output of 2 x Tesla/Royce Kestrels. This power unit would become the Merlin Electric but it had a long and frustrating gestation period before earning the reputation it has today. By this point the original Hound had undergone two major development stages with  uprated engines and/or aero electrical equipment plus the addition of extra fire power. The Mk2 was little different to it predecessor as most of the additions were internal but the MK 3 was slightly longer in the nose in order to accommodate  additional ammunition boxes and extra fuel storage.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Hawker%20Hound%20Mk1.jpg)
Hawker Hound MK2

In 1936 Tesla/Royce contacted the Air Ministry to inform them that the PV12-Electric could not be expected to go into production for another 18 months. The engine was plagued with problems that included cooling issues, excessive wear and cylinder head cracking. Most problematic was the constant gear train failures between the output shaft and the generator.

The Air Ministry contacted the various contractors that would be affected by the news and many heated phone calls and meetings took place in the weeks that followed. At Supermarine there was a little relief mixed in with the disappointment. RJ Mitchells Spectre was going to be problematic to produce at least initially and there was much to iron out. The prototype flew with a much modified Tesla/Royce Schneider race engine and along with a spare it was good for continued trials until the Merlin Electric was ready.

At Hawkers, Sydney Camm was also disappointed but not in the least surprised. The Merlin Electric was a huge step forward and he wanted all the kinks ironed out before he bolted it to one of his airframes. However, all this was overshadowed by the news of the bombing of Guernica in April the following year. Camm was as appalled as everybody else and was even more vocal in his thoughts on an interceptor. He was invited to speak at an Air Ministry meeting regarding the future Air defence of Great Britain where he stated:

“There may be those in Parliament and elsewhere that are firm in their belief that the Bomber will always get through and, with this frame of mind, vast sums of money and resources are being expended in building what is seen as a deterrent bombing force.”
He continued, “This is an arms race that will spiral out of control and, in some cases, may be the ruin of countries with more fragile economies”.
He had everyone’s full attention now as the Depression was still very much in recent memory and the Edwardian aerial dreadnought building era had been the ruin of many a chancellors budget.

Camm glanced at his notes then picked them up and tossed them aside. Gripping his jacket lapels he continued, “Gentlemen, there is something that always seems to be ignored when stating that the bomber will always get through which is simply that calming by deterrent does not allow for the madman who is willing to lose all in a first strike”.

He paused and then continued in the manner of a headmaster speaking to a rather dim child,  “Of course there is also the fact that no matter how many you put over your enemy your enemy will be doing his damnedest to get some over you and, if the bomber will get through, what are you going to do to stop them ?”

Camms logic was met mostly with mutterings of “hear hear” as he had vocalised what many had been thinking. The outcome of all this was the formation of Fighter Command which would grow into a formidable and very capable home defence organisation far ahead of its time. However, in the meantime Britain was left with only the Hawker Hound Mk 3 which in all reality was nothing more than the original Hound with two additional machine guns and greater horsepower.

Sidney Camm knew that the basic layout of the Hound and its variants was sound and could be improved upon easily without the need to start from scratch. What was needed was more power and also more hitting power. The Air ministry had taken the advice of the Operational Requirements Branch that in view of the increasing speeds of fighter and bomber aircraft, gun firing opportunities would be brief, so a six or preferably eight-gun battery should be installed in fighters. This was later amended to a mixed armament of rifle calibre machine guns and 20mm canon that equalled or exceeded the weight of fire from an 8 gun battery.

The addition of canon came about after Aero electric began research into defensive shielding and the possibility that until such times as shielding was available, aircraft would be fitted with armour which would be increased as more lifting power became available. It was known that Germany was also very interested in defensive shielding and armour. However, it would be some years before any country had a reliable defensive shield generation capability.

At Hawkers the result of all this thinking was the Hawker Hunting Hound (in reality the Hound MK4). Tesla-Royce had pushed the kestrel -Electric to previously unheard of power output for what was still the original displacement of 21 litres and Camm wanted all that power. He stayed with a tubular steel framework, wooden frames/stringers and fabric for most of the rear airframe but refined the flying surfaces and included a fully enclosed cockpit. The Tesla-Royce Kestrels Electric XX mountings were redesigned for added strength and fully covered to accommodate a retractable undercarriage.

In the nose sat 4 x browning .303 machine guns and in the underside of the nose 2 x Hispano 20mm canon. Camm had some difficulty with the feed mechanism and changing drums on early “big dogs”, as the RAF came to call them, was a source of much annoyance.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Protoype%20Hound%20Mk4.jpg)
Rare colour photograph of the prototype MK4 Hound at the Aero Electric RAE Farnborough offices.

The result of all this was the world’s most heavily armed and fastest interceptor prior to the start of the Second World War. By this time the very last bit of power production had been sucked from the Kestrel Electric design but the cherry on top so to speak was the introduction of the Aero Electric SBD-146/58 field coil spool or just the “58” as it was known. The 58 could be said to be the larger father of the next generation of remote or uncoupled lift generators that would be used on the Supermarine Spectre and beyond. It produced 15% more lift  than its predecessors and a useful EMFEM effect for the first time without the need of the EMFEM units thanks to the increased T-Coil output. The latter gave the Hound Mk4b its decisive extra manoeuvrability that would come as a shock to BF219 pilots in the early stages of the war. The Hound might not have been as fast and performance fell of at the higher ceilings but it was an excellent dog fighter at the heights most of the action would take place.

The Hawker Hound story cannot be told without mentioning that for a short period in 1938 a Hunting Hound A series held the world airspeed record. On a flight from the north of England to his base in Northolt in London, Squadron Leader J. W. Gillan made the trip in 40 minutes. This made great propaganda and as is the nature of propaganda the fact was overlooked that Gillan had the benefit of extremely high tail winds which was a result of an earlier violent storm front. In truth he was riding a Hurricane.

With the introduction of the Supermarine Spectre in late August 1940 and  the BF 319 in early 1941 the Hound was becoming easily outclassed and could no longer be considered an air superiority  weapon. However, it fought on admirably right up until the end of the conflict as a fighter, still able to hold its own in some cases, but mainly in additional roles where it would excel most notably the Hound MK5 – with 4 x 20 mm Hispano cannon and hard point for 2 x 250 lb bombs and the Hound MK6 – with 2 x .303 browning MG and 2 x Vickers S gun with 20 rounds. Both variants making  a name for themselves in the desert war and far East.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Hounded.jpg)
Dust cover artwork for "Guard Dog - a fighting history of the Hawker Hound" Alfred Price
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 06:06:49 PM
I don't think I'm familiar with your work, but seeing the sample you posted I think you'll fit in nicely.

Welcome to BtS and we look forward to seeing more, especially if they have such lovely spats!

 :-*

Ahem. I'm off now to find out if there's any cold water left.
 :-[
Brian da Basher

I have to admit that there is something about spats  ;)
I have AFV's and non military vehicles in my alt universe. Where can I post them if at all ?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 23, 2019, 06:32:30 PM
Now that's drop-dead sexy!  :-*

If you keep this up, I'm gonna run out of cold water.
 :-[
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 23, 2019, 06:40:35 PM
I have to admit that there is something about spats  ;)
I have AFV's and non military vehicles in my alt universe. Where can I post them if at all ?

You can post all your magnificent art here and you can even set up your own topic if you want to keep your work in one place so your legions of fans can find it easily.

Feel free to send me a message if you need any assistance.

Here at BtS we welcome both what-ifs and the "real" stuff so share anything off your drawing board that strikes your fancy. 

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 08:37:16 PM
Now that's drop-dead sexy!  :-*

If you keep this up, I'm gonna run out of cold water.
 :-[
Brian da Basher



Spatsalist tendencies are no longer frowned upon, set your self freeeeeeeeeeeee

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Spats%20Fetish.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 08:59:27 PM
I have to admit that there is something about spats  ;)
I have AFV's and non military vehicles in my alt universe. Where can I post them if at all ?

You can post all your magnificent art here and you can even set up your own topic if you want to keep your work in one place so your legions of fans can find it easily.

Feel free to send me a message if you need any assistance.

Here at BtS we welcome both what-ifs and the "real" stuff so share anything off your drawing board that strikes your fancy. 

Brian da Basher

Thats cool - thanks :)
I'm happy just making a topic for each thing as if anyone come looking for mine they will have to sort through. That way they won't miss  any of the great stuff on this site.

I don't have much that isn't made up but I do have a couple of Zeppelin images - it was a phase I went through
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Wave on August 23, 2019, 10:13:48 PM
Welcome aboard SBD! It's great to have you here. :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 23, 2019, 10:36:12 PM
Welcome aboard SBD! It's great to have you here. :smiley:

Thank you. Its good to be here.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 24, 2019, 04:11:22 AM
That's a fantastic perspective, one I find most delightful of course.
 :-* :-*
Funny, I'd been contemplating floats instead of spats for my next build but I feel like changing course...

Most excellent and your rendering of the NMF is outstanding as well as those incredibly streamlined spats!
 :-*
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 24, 2019, 04:12:27 AM
Why did you have to do that?  Now we'll not get anything intelligible out of Brian for days if not weeks... ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 24, 2019, 05:32:49 AM
Have you considered having this 3D printed? It would be awesome.

This thread seems to have derailed. I thought we were discussing a 3D print of Scarlet Johansson.

Of course, once all the bugs have been worked out for printing silicon, a 3D model of the Hound would also be amazing.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on August 24, 2019, 05:51:06 AM

This thread seems to have derailed. I thought we were discussing a 3D print of Scarlet Johansson.


You can get a full 3D model of Scarlet Johansson in Under the skin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Skin_(2013_film)). A 3D model of the Hound would be amazing, too - and would probably make Brian very happy.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 24, 2019, 05:14:00 PM
That's a fantastic perspective, one I find most delightful of course.
 :-* :-*

Funny, I'd been contemplating floats instead of spats for my next build but I feel like changing course...


Strange that as I have an Ion thrust powered Schneider float job that I am thinking of producing a wheeled prototype version of which may well just have to incorporate some spattage.


Most excellent and your rendering of the NMF is outstanding as well as those incredibly streamlined spats!
 :-*
Brian da Basher

Keep in mind I am just a poor small brown dog because I don't know what  NMF ... never mind fleas?
Its a dog thing to be preoccupied with fleas.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 24, 2019, 05:56:46 PM
NMF = Natural Metal Finish

No fleas involved so you can rest easy.

Now that's a good boy!
 ;)
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 24, 2019, 06:55:44 PM
NMF = Natural Metal Finish

No fleas involved so you can rest easy.

Now that's a good boy!
 ;)
Brian da Basher

Aha - thats all good then.
OK, what about a treat or maybe a scratch behind the ears ?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 24, 2019, 07:58:29 PM
Owing to the Italian success the previous year, the 1927 Schneider trophy contest was hosted in Venice. That year Supermarine took both first and second place which was the first of three consecutive wins by RJ Mitchell designed aeroplanes from 1927 to 1931 which secured the Schneider trophy permanently for Great Britain.

There was another English machine entered that year which caused some controversy as well as amusement in the media and, within halls of the British air ministry, some outrage and hostility.  After the British defeat of 1925 and the lack of any British aircraft being available in time for the 1926 event, the Air Ministry agreed to support the British team. It should be noted that at this time both American and Italian teams had the backing of their respective countries whereas the British ventures had been private up to this point. The RAF high speed flight was formed at the Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment Felixstowe in preparation for the 1927 race. 

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Eros/Did%20they%20forget%20the%20prop.jpg)

During this period there were still many Biplane configuration advocates within the Air ministry and so a specification for a high speed experimental biplane seaplane was issued with the ultimate aim of such an aircraft being a contest entry.  The RAF was also interested in air cooled radial engine performance and the future high speed potential of such units.  This posed something of a dilemma for the industry as no one really wanted to touch the specification but did not want to appear disinterested. However, Aero Electric seized  upon the opportunity.

Neville Bane had joined Aero Electric some two year earlier at the invitation of Samuel Benson Dogge, A.E managing director. Bane had been involved in the Royal Navy aerial battleship program that led to the Predator class and had done a great deal of research into ion thrust potential. Unfortunately his research did not meet with great enthusiasm which may partly have been a result of his outspoken views on the future of the aerial Warship.

Both Bane and Dogge were convinced that the dominance of aerial battleships would decline over the next decade as advances in coupled thrust/electrical generator technology were gathering momentum. Both were also equally convinced that in the future it would be Ion propulsion that would dominate aviation.

The Schneider race was an ideal opportunity to investigate the potential of ion thrust and get funding into the bargain. So, with a clever bit of politics and some intelligence of a rather personal nature involving senior ministers, Aero Electrical successfully submitted a design outlining a single radial engine biplane to explore the characteristics and future development of high speed flight. This met with the RAF high speed flight criteria and to satisfy the Air ministry the ultimate goal of the project was classified as a proof of concept to contest trials project.

There was no mention of radical aero electrical features and no questions asked which is surprising as perhaps the name Aero Electrical Ltd may have made at least someone look a little bit closer as A.E. were not at that time aircraft designers. However, another benefit of Bane's employment to A.E. was his close association with Gloster aircraft and in particular, Henry Folland with whom he was on very good terms with. The A.E. aircraft could really be said to have been a joint venture as far as the airframe was concerned. This would, and later did, meet with the air ministry approval.

It was an accepted fact at the time that inline engines had a clear advantage over radial engines owing to the smaller frontal area. Additionally biplanes induce more drag along with other undesirable drag effects to that of monoplanes. However, A.E. argued that the above negatives could be nullified and at the same time the inherent advantages of the biplane expanded on. This was just what the Air Ministry wanted to hear but they would not have liked how he proposed to do it.

Again through past association and behind the scenes dealings, Bristol gave Aero Electric an experimental supercharged 9 cylinder Mercury radial engine that at one point delivered over 900HP. This power to weight ratio was very much an advantage as A.E. proposed to use the engine for electrical generation only for an ion thrust unit. The thrust unit itself was uncomplicated and light weight but the generator and capacitors were a different matter.  The air ministry would have gone into a flat spin if they had been aware as this was the province of the Senior service Aerial fleet and, for this time, nothing but science fiction as far as the aeroplane was concerned especially for high performance single engined types.

The theory was simple. Make use of the Bristol high output light weight air cooled engine without a drag inducing propeller, Take advantage of additional lift of the biplane configuration, Exploit the electromagnetic field on mass effect to compensate for the additional weight and drag and win the Schneider trophy.

Of course it didn't win the trophy and winning it was never a consideration but as a proof of concept it certainly was a winner as history would prove.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Eros/ghost2.jpg)

By the time the Aero Electric Eros 1 was unveiled to the public the Air Ministry had become very concerned over the growing costs and the seemingly impenetrable curtain of secrecy that had surrounded the project. Then there was outrage from certain quarters which was compounded by an American pre contest review that ran with the headline “Did they forget the prop?” and the fact that the RAF took to referring to the electrical thrust system as the flying fart. To add insult to injury the name Eros was taken exception to, as Eros being the Greek god responsible for illicit affairs,  it seemed as though  Aero Electric were hinting at certain “goings on” in the upper echelons of the air ministry.

This almost got completely out of hand until reasoned evaluation was put before the board of inquiry. It was noted that for all the fun made by the media of the time, the Eros performed remarkably. It came 3rd beaten only by Supermarine’s S5 designs which was expected and gave Britain not only first and second  but third place in the contest. Additionally the Italians and favourites to win failed to complete the contest with any of their aircraft. However, the performance of the Eros when measured against the laps the Italians managed was comparable. The Italians were racing powerful inline engined monoplanes. When taking in the above it can be seen that Aero Electric met, and could be said to have exceeded, all the criteria laid down in the Air ministry specification.

All contest aircraft other than the Eros suffered from  “digging in” owing to the engine/propeller torque effect and required only ideal sea conditions for take-off.  However the Eros, owing to the fact that there was no torque effect had no problems  getting unstuck from the surface of the sea and made all other contestants look like lame ducks during take-off.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Eros/The%20last%20lap.jpg)

Finally it was suggested to the Air Ministry that they should be more interested in how, as the governing body, they could remain so unaware of the complete proposal and, perhaps more importantly, that a more progressive and open mind to aeronautical/aeroelectrical research and development would invite more openness and lead to real world innovation.

The fuss was over and so was further development of the Eros 1. As per all contest entries the engines used were rated only for a very short durations. They were tuned to the maximum and prone to destroying themselves in complicated and expensive ways. This is exactly what happened to the Eros 1 during an all-out speed trial some weeks after the contest.

This was not the end though as certain individuals in the air ministry did wake up. Ion thrust would make inroads over the coming decade with larger transport and bomber aircraft being ideal owing to there multi engine configurations. The Eros airframe was ear marked for conversion into a research land plane for trials. The results of this prototype would later be invaluable to such types as the Supermarine Spirit and beyond.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Eros/poster3-NEW.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 24, 2019, 09:47:56 PM
Yup! :smiley: 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 24, 2019, 11:44:57 PM
That magnificent example of mixed-propulsion hits on all cylinders!

That shot from above where it's diving on the pylon is especially nice.

Great stuff, SBD!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 24, 2019, 11:48:20 PM
Despite my friends calling me the Pied Piper of Cats, I'm actually a dog person and can't say no to those big puppy-dog eyes.

I'll see you when you return from walkies.
 ;D ;D ;D
Brian da Basher

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on August 25, 2019, 01:50:47 AM
Beautiful aircraft and story; that's majorly impressive, to me, artwork.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 25, 2019, 02:50:11 AM
That magnificent example of mixed-propulsion hits on all cylinders!

That shot from above where it's diving on the pylon is especially nice.

Great stuff, SBD!

Brian da Basher

I'm thinking about a wheeled land variant with  perhaps ... some spats  :)


Beautiful aircraft and story; that's majorly impressive, to me, artwork.

Thank you, that's appreciated :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 25, 2019, 02:51:18 AM
Despite my friends calling me the Pied Piper of Cats, I'm actually a dog person and can't say no to those big puppy-dog eyes.

I'll see you when you return from walkies.
 ;D ;D ;D
Brian da Basher

Now that could be a hell of a euphemism ... or is that just me ?
;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 25, 2019, 03:35:15 AM
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/ddd0HBTakik00/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 25, 2019, 07:04:40 AM
Love it  :-*  Especially the phantom-view and drivetrain layout  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 25, 2019, 06:27:44 PM
Forgot the advert
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Eros/Lodge.jpg)

... got to keep the sponsors happy even if they are all dead :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 25, 2019, 06:48:29 PM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Aerial/1932%20Ariel%20Redwing%20Aerocycle.jpg)

Civil and commercial applications for Electro levitation technology was becoming more widely accepted after WW1. During the conflict tethered factory lifting units had been developed for the armament industries. Huge self-mobile transportation vehicles were becoming more common place and it was anticipated that smaller self-contained units for use in commercial and even public transport may soon be just around the corner.

Ever keen to exploit a business opportunity both the motor car and motor cycle industries began to look at the potential of Aerocars and Aerocycles during the mid-1920’s.  However the public mood in relation to the desire to own such vehicles was greatly overestimated. Additionally the first generation were hugely expensive, underpowered and unwieldy.   There were of course some people that were enthusiastic as there always are but the great majority of people were not ready to give up the rubber on the tarmac just yet or, more importantly, the large sums of money to do so. Besides it was just a fad wasn’t it?

This mood changed in 1930 when King George V attended the launch of the predator class aerial Battleship: The Tigress. His Majesty made a huge impact by arriving at the event in a Tesla Royce Aero-limousine. The royal Aerocar was quiet although obviously possessing or giving an air of great power. The coachwork was of a style that looked to the future but was suitably restrained. History marks this event as the catalyst for the growing acceptance of Electro Levitation into the motor industries and was also a gift from the gods as far as the managing director at Ariel Motors was concerned.

Ariel was the first to produce and develop an Aerocycle the first of which was available from 1924. It was not a great success but Aerial stuck with the concept and by the late 20’s they had a machine that was reliable and in demand but only to a select and wealthy few. However, the company had financial troubles and went into receivership in 1930. The company was bought for a very good price by the Managing Directors son and Ariel began a new phase.

In a bold and almost prophetic move the new owner concentrated upon the Aerocycle market which became a great success.  Much of this success was down to a talented engineer by the name of Philip Cardew  who himself was a keen Aerocycle enthusiast and had joined Ariel, after being tempted by a huge salary and free hardware, to design the next Ariel Aerocycle generation.

Cardew had worked for the admiralty designing lightweight but powerful engines for dockside and on board munitions carriers. His  designs coupled with a complete working knowledge of Electro levitation technology gave Ariel a lead estimated to be at least 5 years ahead of the competition.

His finest achievement was the Ariel Red Wing 600. A V twin design available in both sport and touring configuration although Cardew was not that interested in the latter. Philip Cardwew was a speed freak at heart and was often seen at race meetings on his own specially tuned and very fast Red Wing which, it is said, was nicknamed Jesus. Apparently this was because any new rider taking the machine for a spin to find out what the fuss was all about could be heard to utter the name of the messiah as soon as they opened the throttle.  In the interests of public safety Production models were a little tamer of course but the Ariel Red Wing was almost universally describes as going like something unmentionable off a highly polished digging implement.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Aerial/pOSTER.jpg)

The redwing design went through several incarnations and was available right through to the late 1950’s. During the war a military version was developed ushering in a new age of so called motorised Calvary units which were used to great effect in the desert campaign. However, that’s another story.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Aerial/VTWIN.jpg)
Ariel V twin/generator without thrust unit.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 25, 2019, 07:39:45 PM
 ;D :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 25, 2019, 09:14:54 PM
That's phenomenally well done, coffee-table book quality!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 25, 2019, 09:15:51 PM
You've captured the period look in that ad perfectly!

The aged paper and faded inks are a master-stroke.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on August 26, 2019, 06:54:35 AM
Gorgeous work!!  I can just see a motorized cavalry unit literally hedgehopping in training with the Light Cavalry Overture as background music.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 26, 2019, 04:21:56 PM
Found this in my attic ... 1969!
I'm getting to be an old dog  :(

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Airfix%20catalogue%201969.jpg)

Roy Cross had a huge influence on me as a kid but perhaps I take this alternative universe a bit too far.
Promise to leave you guys a lone for a bit. Just thought you might appreciate this :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 26, 2019, 04:30:18 PM
That's most convincingly done and brings to mind many fun days in my youth paging through a dog-eared copy of the real thing, wishing...

Another wonderful feast for the eyes!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 26, 2019, 04:33:03 PM
You've captured the period look in that ad perfectly!

The aged paper and faded inks are a master-stroke.

Brian da Basher

Thanks
I get a kick out of reproducing these I must admit.
Got a few more I'll share at some point.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on August 27, 2019, 12:10:10 AM
Damn, that's very convincingly done.  You've got the look and feel down perfectly.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 27, 2019, 02:34:02 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on August 27, 2019, 03:05:59 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D :icon_fsm:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 27, 2019, 05:11:42 AM
Gorgeous ... and the tea-mug ring is a lovely touch  ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 27, 2019, 05:12:32 AM
... Got a few more I'll share at some point.

Looking forward to those!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on August 27, 2019, 05:49:25 AM
I would have loved to have had that catalog! What's the price? 1 shilling 9 pence?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 27, 2019, 10:32:31 PM
Quote
but perhaps I take this alternative universe a bit too far. Promise to leave you guys a lone for a bit.
DON'T YOU DARE!

These are fricken awesome! Not only is the background tech story well conceived (in the best "Boy's Own Thrilling Stories Annual" fashion), but the illustrations are, truly, superb. Seriously, these are absolutely amazing.

And I totally want to build physical models in this universe. I am doing my best to absorb the design themes that best embody this tech and plan a build or three along these lines.

I'd love to see more of the AFVs and war airships as well.

Seriously. Don't stop. Don't even slow down...

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 28, 2019, 08:25:07 PM
Thanks gents, much appreciated :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 28, 2019, 08:26:22 PM
Gorgeous work!!  I can just see a motorized cavalry unit literally hedgehopping in training with the Light Cavalry Overture as background music.

I really fancy doing this actually and might have to go off and do it :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 28, 2019, 08:37:19 PM
AFV’s and large commercial/industrial vehicles began to benefit from EMFEM weight reduction just prior to the First World War. However, these vehicles still relied upon traction drive in the form of wheel or track.  Experiments with bipedal locomotion initially showed little hope of serious application until the development of gyroscopic field focusing which ushered in a new age of fighting vehicles.

The development of the first world war Mechanical men or “Mech’s” was rapid from lightly armed tottering early designs through to the towering Russian giant of the Second World war, the T-334 Svyatogor.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/T334%20Svyatagor.jpg)

Some Background on the Russian T-334:
Russia remained as the sole champion of Bipedal AFV’s after WW1.  This was not by choice but rather a matter of practicality owing to Russia’s own inner turmoil during the period and the years following the conflict. By the early 1930’s all other nations had ceased operating the type completely or had relegated it to secondary non-combatant duties. Russia had been in a technological state of flux and had lagged behind the west in all the Tesla based technologies. However they had taken bipedal AFV technology to an advanced state. 

The German push towards Moscow in late 1941 were among the darkest days for Russia but it is strongly believed  that without the T-134 Moscow may well have fallen. The Machine was outclassed in almost every way but was numerous and operated by committed, almost fanatical crews.  In the late spring of 1942 the T- 234 began to appear in greater numbers and fought well during the new German offensive during July.

In 1943 the final variant, the T-334 Svyatogor, entered service being the largest, most heavily armed and powerful Bipedel AFV to be developed anywhere. The whole series had been big and always prey to air attack particularly from the ME626 Donnervogel. The T334 was almost three stories high but incorporated a heavy machine gun turret which was initially a huge surprise to the Germans and many unsuspecting ME626 fell to the T-334

Flack variants were produced having their entire weapon points devoted to 20 & 30mm AA cannon and were dispersed among standard armoured variants causing huge casualties to attacking aircraft.  However, the Achilles heal was the height of the machine especially the T-334 which was easily targeted from concealed vantage points.

By 1944 the T-344 could no longer depend upon its armour once the Luftpanzer Jaguar 2 came into service and, although a risky business, leg sweeping was accounting for more and more of the vehicles. The LP Jaguar 2 was perfect for leg sweeping if timed correctly with the forefoot fall during the step. Once down the machine was down for good.

By the end of the war new technologies had overtaken the T-334 such as the Volkosob but Russia has forever had a soft spot for the BAFV and the mighty Svyatogor.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/New%20kid%20on%20the%20block.jpg)

Background to the above image
The problem with the very early Luftpanzer, and in particular the Jaguar 1-A, was its frequent need to recharge its shields. The armour was not as thick as would have been preferred in order to save weight but this was considered to be acceptable as the lack of thickness was made up for by shielding which was fine until the shield efficiency dropped which it did rapidly.

Of course, later variants and especially the Jaguar MK2, were in another class altogether owing to vastly superior power generation.  However, the early power units should perhaps have never gone into production as the above image shows. The Russian T-334 crews loved to happen upon a recharging Jag 1, they blew up in a most satisfying way if you got them in the capacitor.



I'm not so clued up on AFV's so apologies for stupidity beyond the obvious in the above.


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 28, 2019, 08:48:19 PM
 :D :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Big Gimper on August 28, 2019, 10:16:44 PM
The B-29 as it should have been built.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 29, 2019, 12:28:12 AM
By the early 1930’s the power generation for most AFV’s was supplied by dedicated high energy output engines many of which were  factory converted aero engines installed sometimes in pairs. With so much energy available Field focusing could be used for motive and manoeuvring power  by projection of a repulsion field. Germany excelled in this form of AFV configuration being the first to introduce the type.

The early Luftpanzers had their repulsion field projectors externally mounted in large articulated sponsons.  They were also the first of the type to have repulsion technology based ballistic shielding although this was very rudimentary 

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/Killer%20in%20the%20woods.jpg)
Luftpanzer 1

Excess energy was bled away to a dedicated shield capacitor but this was rarely able to work at full charge and once used it recharged slowly especially under battle conations. However, with sufficient charge it could take the sting out of a general anti-tank round allowing the LP to live another day providing the round did not damage a sponson mount which the allies soon learned to target.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/Cold%20steel.jpg)
Luftpanzer 2

Later designs had the  T-coil and amplification hardware housed in an armoured steel cylinder. Internal articulated hemispherical projectors at each end of the cylinder focused the manoeuvring field.  The shielding technology was improved also but it should be remembered that this technology was in its infancy in the 1940’s and would not become a potent defensive component until the introduction of more exotic energy generation was available. The shields would stop most contemporary shells or at least significantly reduce their damage potential. However, each repelled shot would deplete the energy storage and charge time would be a factor in this tank surviving attack.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/Over%20to%20you.jpg)
An enemy stronghold is softened up by ME 626 Donnervogel  before a waiting armoured assault unit comprising of Jaguar MK2 Luftpanzers, goes into action. The enemy is not without teeth as one of the Tbird pilots has found out




Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 29, 2019, 12:29:38 AM
The B-29 as it should have been built.   :smiley:

Steroids and a high protein diet ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Dr. YoKai on August 29, 2019, 12:31:50 AM
 Beautiful work. I started a Luftpanzer awhile ago myself, also based on the Jagdpanther, but this has anything I did beat all hollow.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 29, 2019, 12:39:10 AM
Beautiful work. I started a Luftpanzer awhile ago myself, also based on the Jagdpanther, but this has anything I did beat all hollow.

Thanks :)
I just looked up curmudgeon .... I'm one too!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 29, 2019, 12:52:29 AM
Gotta ask:

How, nominally, does such a thing turn? I don't see any aerodynamic surfaces and it doesn't appear the handlebars move anything or that the lift/propulsion thingy pivots in any way.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 29, 2019, 01:17:29 AM
I'm not at all sure you care, however...

One issue with these sorts of mechs, including the Star Wars AT-ST, is that they actually can't walk, at least not as depicted. They aren't balanced correctly to allow the wide stance of the legs to manage the balance of the vehicle when perched on one leg while the other leg advances. The human body manages this by having the distance between the hip joints and the centre of mass be a small fraction of the length of the leg, that small offset of the joint meaning that the moment arm between the body's centre of mass and the vertical position of one foot is small meaning that the torque looking to pitch the body off to one side is also small. The body starts to pitch over, nonetheless, but with a small torque, it doesn't do so very quickly and then the other foot touches the ground and balance is restored until the other foot leaves the ground and the process reverses. This provides the rolling gait of a normal human walk. When running, when the downward forces are greater due to the higher vertical accelerations experienced, you notice that people's feet start to hit the ground ever closer to the body centreline, reducing the moment arm further and, again, we don't pitch over.

These mechs, pretty much all of them, have wide spread hips and relatively short legs and move those legs relatively slowly. By the time one leg manages to lift, advance and return to contact, the mech will have angled over considerably. The only gait that works for these mechs (as depicted virtually everywhere) is the rather hopping gait of someone walking on two older style prosthetic legs. They have to virtually hop their mass up as their legs move between steps to prevent tipping over and the usual pattern mech would have to be at least as bad or worse as the legs get shorter and the hips further apart.

To remain upright in your tech world probably requires some sort of lift generator to offset the toppling torque such that the mech would remain upright. Note, of course, that this also means that the traction on the legs gets less as the weight is offset, so it might want to be a variable lift force and maybe something coupled to the walking control system to provide for the right amount of weight offset depending on what the mech is doing.

If you don't want to do that, then with the usual wider hips and short legs you probably need foot pads that cross over the centreline of the vehicle, like some of the old, win-up, tin toy robots.

But, like I say, this may be faaaaar too much engineering thought being put into this. All I can plead is that I'm an aerospace engineer and I can't help m'self.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 29, 2019, 01:20:41 AM
Just hit me! ED43, ED209's grandfather! ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 29, 2019, 01:31:55 AM
Gotta ask:

How, nominally, does such a thing turn? I don't see any aerodynamic surfaces and it doesn't appear the handlebars move anything or that the lift/propulsion thingy pivots in any way.

Paul

Pretentious bull answer:
Repulsion field tech in combination with the small rudder inside the ion thrust tube which you can't see in the image.
There is a drive chain that rotates the projection faces (inside the casings) on the front face of the handlebars.
The Ion thrust power requirement is quite small and not of high thrust.

Real answer:
Christ knows - I got fed up of thinking about it because it was doing my head in.
Also. I used a totally new (for me) texturing method which took some time to get right. I was fed up of the thing my the time I was done :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 29, 2019, 01:40:01 AM
I'm not at all sure you care, however...

One issue with these sorts of mechs, including the Star Wars AT-ST, is that they actually can't walk, at least not as depicted. They aren't balanced correctly to allow the wide stance of the legs to manage the balance of the vehicle when perched on one leg while the other leg advances. The human body manages this by having the distance between the hip joints and the centre of mass be a small fraction of the length of the leg, that small offset of the joint meaning that the moment arm between the body's centre of mass and the vertical position of one foot is small meaning that the torque looking to pitch the body off to one side is also small. The body starts to pitch over, nonetheless, but with a small torque, it doesn't do so very quickly and then the other foot touches the ground and balance is restored until the other foot leaves the ground and the process reverses. This provides the rolling gait of a normal human walk. When running, when the downward forces are greater due to the higher vertical accelerations experienced, you notice that people's feet start to hit the ground ever closer to the body centreline, reducing the moment arm further and, again, we don't pitch over.

These mechs, pretty much all of them, have wide spread hips and relatively short legs and move those legs relatively slowly. By the time one leg manages to lift, advance and return to contact, the mech will have angled over considerably. The only gait that works for these mechs (as depicted virtually everywhere) is the rather hopping gait of someone walking on two older style prosthetic legs. They have to virtually hop their mass up as their legs move between steps to prevent tipping over and the usual pattern mech would have to be at least as bad or worse as the legs get shorter and the hips further apart.

To remain upright in your tech world probably requires some sort of lift generator to offset the toppling torque such that the mech would remain upright. Note, of course, that this also means that the traction on the legs gets less as the weight is offset, so it might want to be a variable lift force and maybe something coupled to the walking control system to provide for the right amount of weight offset depending on what the mech is doing.

If you don't want to do that, then with the usual wider hips and short legs you probably need foot pads that cross over the centreline of the vehicle, like some of the old, win-up, tin toy robots.

But, like I say, this may be faaaaar too much engineering thought being put into this. All I can plead is that I'm an aerospace engineer and I can't help m'self.

Paul

I love the feedback and believe me I wrestle all the time with this sort of thing.
You are of course totally correct and to be honest I have never been happy with mechs largely for those very reasons. I  also think that the development  may never have taken place in my universe but I had this half finished mech idea I started about 3 years ago and it was one of those scrap it or finish decisions.
The Russians did away with their mechs anyway as alternatives like the Solokov Volkosob which is much more in keeping with my universe.which I could post if you like.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 29, 2019, 01:47:28 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 29, 2019, 10:01:18 AM
... which I could post if you like.

Duh! Yeah! Of course we want you to! Quit asking & DO, fer cryin' out loud! ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 29, 2019, 06:14:14 PM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/Solokov%20Yolkosob.jpg)

The arrival of the latest incarnation of the Luftpanzer, Jaguar 2, on the eastern front had caused untold misery not only for the Russian front line soldiers but also for the tank design bureau. Stalin was going crazy, threats were made and personnel had disappeared.

Just when it seemed that the Russians were making progress and driving the Nazi back, the Luftpanzer had almost overnight shifted the balance of power in favour Germany. The ME 626 Donnervogel was always a problem to armoured divisions but now in combination with the Luftpanzer 2 Russian armour just ceased to exist after any confrontation.

According to Stalin the solution was simple: More armour, more fire power and more of us then them. Finding more men always seemed to be easy but the equipment was another matter.The building program for armoured fighting vehicles had been expanded to such a state that many engineering companies had found themselves subcontractors to the major arms builders and keeping up with current supply alone left little or no time for innovation and experiment.

However, Mikhail Sokolov , designer and builder of  heavy agricultural and industrial equipment  was currently enjoying such a period where he could “play” simply because he was ahead of schedule. The company had produced a successful industrial lift generator before the war but had since been charged with the production of, as far as Sokolov was concerned, a lesser military design. He had actually been asked to slow down output as the subcontractors he shipped to were unable to meet their own almost impossible deadlines and had Solokov field generators sitting in crates taking up valuable room.

There was no doubt that the military unit currently in production was powerful but it lacked the refined unidirectional field focusing of the Solokov unit. Material handling vehicles working in factories or on the docks needed precision field focusing to manoeuvre in confined spaces with ease.  They should be able to stop and start in an instant, shift sideways and rotate about the vehicles central axis and all under load.  Solokov wondered about such a vehicle fitted with a useful armament and double the power generation.

In a bold move Sokolov redesigned the military field generator and fitted it with his own field focusing technology. He then fitted this to one of his own company  Sokolov bulk lifters, a tall narrow  but powerful dock side loading  vehicle and it worked well. Encouraged by the results he had a redesigned thick steel armoured carapace made that wrapped around the front of the machine. The lifting gear equipment and control space was filled with a 75mm cannon and an ingenious self-loading magazine holding 12 shells – said to have been copied form a downed ME626 of which Sokolov denied.

The potential was great but at this time the machine was beginning to lack power as the weight had increased with the addition of a war load. It was about this time that Sokolov had been imprisoned for the crime of hindering the war effort. However, Solokov turned this to his advantage stating that the war effort was now even more in jeopardy as he had the solution to the German armour problem. Being such a sensitive issue his claims echoed through the halls of power until they were heard by no lesser individual than Stalin himself who simply told his aid to instruct Solokov to “prove it”.

Solokov did prove it having no real alternative if he wanted to live.
Within 4 months of his release The Volkosob was in production. The power generation was solved by 2 x Shvetsov aero engines driving generators and industrial low power Ion thrusters. They may have been low power, having been designed for material handling vehicles, but two gave the Volkosob a top speed over the flat of just slightly over 60MPH. There was a need to add conventional aerodynamic control surfaces to the Yolkosob to help it manoeuvre at speed and, over undulating terrain at top speed, keep it from becoming airborne where it became an uncontrollable pilot killing machine if not kept in check and brought back into field contact with the ground.

The Yolkosob was ugly. Basically an industrial bulk lifter mutation on steroids built in the thousands and much loved by its operators. In the early days the pilots were women drafted in from the factories and docks where they had been skilled in the use of the non-military Solokov bulk lifter. They soon became skilled and feared fighters and along with their humble mounts are remembered for the part they played in turning the tide of the war in favour of the Motherland.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/Ura.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 29, 2019, 10:26:52 PM
Love it! ;D :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on August 29, 2019, 10:31:58 PM
Beautiful concept and story!!  You have a real talent for this.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 29, 2019, 10:45:41 PM
Have you been to the website “industria mechanika”? This would fit right in! Fantastic design and story! Now who’s going to build one in plastic?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 29, 2019, 10:58:41 PM
and it was one of those scrap it or finish decisions.
;D ;)

Quote
The Russians did away with their mechs anyway as alternatives like the Solokov Volkosob which is much more in keeping with my universe.which I could post if you like.
Absolutely!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 29, 2019, 11:04:17 PM
Pretentious bull answer:
Repulsion field tech in combination with the small rudder inside the ion thrust tube which you can't see in the image.
There is a drive chain that rotates the projection faces (inside the casings) on the front face of the handlebars.
The Ion thrust power requirement is quite small and not of high thrust.

Real answer:
Christ knows - I got fed up of thinking about it because it was doing my head in.
Also. I used a totally new (for me) texturing method which took some time to get right. I was fed up of the thing my the time I was done :)
Totally acceptable answers on both counts!  :D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 29, 2019, 11:13:05 PM
Have you been to the website “industria mechanika”? This would fit right in! Fantastic design and story! Now who’s going to build one in plastic?
Yes, virtually any of your designs, SBD, would do very well in the Industria Mechanika model stable. There are several similar "anti-gravity" tech universes represented there and this is different enough to be separate, yet similar enough to find a ready market, I would think.

He does look for designs to reproduce as kits and you already have the base solids. The fighters and these land units would fit his scale of things very, very nicely. Especially in 1/35 for the ground units and 1/48 for the aircraft.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 30, 2019, 01:42:20 AM
Thanks people :)

Have you been to the website “industria mechanika”? This would fit right in! Fantastic design and story! Now who’s going to build one in plastic?

No but I will go check it out.


He does look for designs to reproduce as kits and you already have the base solids. The fighters and these land units would fit his scale of things very, very nicely. Especially in 1/35 for the ground units and 1/48 for the aircraft.

Thats the second shout for this place. Now I'm intrigued.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 30, 2019, 02:08:32 AM
Love it. :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on August 30, 2019, 04:04:34 AM
The guy with his fist up is a nice touch.

Great stuff!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on August 30, 2019, 04:29:22 AM
That's a great design1 Are those M2 Browning MGs?

I think the guy with the raised fist is saying "Я пукнул! Я признаюсь!"
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Robomog on August 30, 2019, 05:33:14 AM
Love this vehicle, nice pixels  :smiley:

Mog
>^-.-^<
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 30, 2019, 06:13:50 AM
Would the Solokov Volkosob work best as an aircraft in 1/48th or armor in 1/35th scale? Now this would be a tough decision!

Here's the facebook site.
https://www.facebook.com/IndustriaMechanika/ (https://www.facebook.com/IndustriaMechanika/)

https://industriamechanika.com/shop/ (https://industriamechanika.com/shop/)

All I can get is the "shop" site. I was hoping for the "home" site. Maybe someone else can find it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 30, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
Love this mech!

I'm not too sure about using humans as a model for walkers, though. We are naturally unbalanced - like an F-16 - some other bipedal creatures are more stable and require far less brainpower to maintain balance while walking. The comment about wide hips made me think of extinct 'terror birds' like Gastornithiformes.

As birds go, the Gastornithiformes had relatively short legs and quite wide hips. Obviously they were smaller and more gracile than the average mech and scaling up changes things. But, generally I think, the Gastornithiformes make a better locomotion model than Homo sapiens.

As an example of the Gastornithiforme order, see Dromornis stirtoni from Late Miocene Oz:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/9868842-3x2-940x627.jpg (https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/9868842-3x2-940x627.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 30, 2019, 07:57:33 AM
I'm not at all sure you care, however...

One issue with these sorts of mechs, including the Star Wars AT-ST, is that they actually can't walk, at least not as depicted. They aren't balanced correctly to allow the wide stance of the legs to manage the balance of the vehicle when perched on one leg while the other leg advances. The human body manages this by having the distance between the hip joints and the centre of mass be a small fraction of the length of the leg, that small offset of the joint meaning that the moment arm between the body's centre of mass and the vertical position of one foot is small meaning that the torque looking to pitch the body off to one side is also small. The body starts to pitch over, nonetheless, but with a small torque, it doesn't do so very quickly and then the other foot touches the ground and balance is restored until the other foot leaves the ground and the process reverses. This provides the rolling gait of a normal human walk. When running, when the downward forces are greater due to the higher vertical accelerations experienced, you notice that people's feet start to hit the ground ever closer to the body centreline, reducing the moment arm further and, again, we don't pitch over.

These mechs, pretty much all of them, have wide spread hips and relatively short legs and move those legs relatively slowly. By the time one leg manages to lift, advance and return to contact, the mech will have angled over considerably. The only gait that works for these mechs (as depicted virtually everywhere) is the rather hopping gait of someone walking on two older style prosthetic legs. They have to virtually hop their mass up as their legs move between steps to prevent tipping over and the usual pattern mech would have to be at least as bad or worse as the legs get shorter and the hips further apart.

To remain upright in your tech world probably requires some sort of lift generator to offset the toppling torque such that the mech would remain upright. Note, of course, that this also means that the traction on the legs gets less as the weight is offset, so it might want to be a variable lift force and maybe something coupled to the walking control system to provide for the right amount of weight offset depending on what the mech is doing.

If you don't want to do that, then with the usual wider hips and short legs you probably need foot pads that cross over the centreline of the vehicle, like some of the old, win-up, tin toy robots.

But, like I say, this may be faaaaar too much engineering thought being put into this. All I can plead is that I'm an aerospace engineer and I can't help m'self.

Paul

I love the feedback and believe me I wrestle all the time with this sort of thing.
You are of course totally correct and to be honest I have never been happy with mechs largely for those very reasons. I  also think that the development  may never have taken place in my universe but I had this half finished mech idea I started about 3 years ago and it was one of those scrap it or finish decisions.
The Russians did away with their mechs anyway as alternatives like the Solokov Volkosob which is much more in keeping with my universe.which I could post if you like.

You have described what I instinctively felt was a problem for walking mechs for a long time. I'm glade someone was able to finally explain it properly.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 30, 2019, 08:51:21 AM
The "walker" designs I enjoy the best are those like ED-209 & the T-334, here. They have what I call "chicken legs".

The fault with most of them is the designers put the mass too high or too far forward. If you look at a chicken (or any other (semi-)flightless bird, for that matter) you'll see that their hip joints are way up near their ribs & spine, that their body mass is pretty evenly distributed fore-&-aft, & that most of their body mass is of a height with or below their hips.

"Chicken leg" designs were amongst the first successful walking robot designs (for a given level of "successful") & it's only the desire to create android robots that really pushes the research into mammalian, specifically hominid-gaited robot walkers.

Spiders, to my mind, are the best model for walking robots.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Yves Marino on August 30, 2019, 10:45:47 AM
([url]http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/Solokov%20Yolkosob.jpg[/url])

I have 2 questions:
1. What is a "Volkosob"? Is this a misspelled Russian word (eventually Volkosub - a snake, Lycodon, Wolf snake) or anything else?
2. The name of the inventor in your story is Mikhail SOKOLOV (a real Russian name). The name of the craft is SOLOKOV. Was it changed on purpose or is it a typo? I guess it's a typo, because you wrote:
"... It was about this time that Sokolov had been imprisoned for the crime of hindering the war effort. However, Solokov turned this to his advantage..."
As you already know (I contacted you on DevianArt earlier) I like your designs very much. I build AG-machines (real models), but mine use 'Niobium"(Unobtanium) 3S-engines. I don't really care how possible it is: https://i.imgur.com/tjuLail.jpg
Please show your Messerschmitt-fighter.
Keep up the good work!
Regards!
Yves
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 30, 2019, 05:15:01 PM

I have 2 questions:
1. What is a "Volkosob"? Is this a misspelled Russian word (eventually Volkosub - a snake, Lycodon, Wolf snake) or anything else?
2. The name of the inventor in your story is Mikhail SOKOLOV (a real Russian name). The name of the craft is SOLOKOV. Was it changed on purpose or is it a typo? I guess it's a typo, because you wrote:
"... It was about this time that Sokolov had been imprisoned for the crime of hindering the war effort. However, Solokov turned this to his advantage..."
As you already know (I contacted you on DevianArt earlier) I like your designs very much. I build AG-machines (real models), but mine use 'Niobium"(Unobtanium) 3S-engines. I don't really care how possible it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/tjuLail.jpg)
Please show your Messerschmitt-fighter.
Keep up the good work!
Regards!
Yves

I remember reading somewhere that Volkosob is Russian term for a wolf hybrid breed bred by the Russian military to protect the borders. I have since seen it spelled Volkosoby and to be honest I'm not that good with English which is my native tongue let alone trying to get my head around Russian :)
The Solokov/Sokolov is just a typo as you guessed.

Your model looks great :)
I am sure I have seen your avatar somewhere else too.

Which Messerschmitt fighter do you mean?
I have an early war BF109/110 hybrid and one called the Donnervogel which is a twin engined Flack fighter


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 30, 2019, 05:18:14 PM
Would the Solokov Volkosob work best as an aircraft in 1/48th or armor in 1/35th scale? Now this would be a tough decision!

Here's the facebook site.
https://www.facebook.com/IndustriaMechanika/ (https://www.facebook.com/IndustriaMechanika/)

https://industriamechanika.com/shop/ (https://industriamechanika.com/shop/)

All I can get is the "shop" site. I was hoping for the "home" site. Maybe someone else can find it.

I found the shop too.
Its nice of you to say but I'm not sure my stuff would fit in.

As for the scale I not sure either. Technically its an AFV but it does sort of fly .. maybe 1/41.5 scale  just to average it :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 30, 2019, 05:24:24 PM
That's a great design1 Are those M2 Browning MGs?

I think the guy with the raised fist is saying "Я пукнул! Я признаюсь!"

You git I almost sprayed tea all over the screens when I translated that :)
What makes it more funny it that he is a she. The title of the image is "Ura" which is a Russian battle cry .... I hope.

The MG's on the side are pretty non specific and to be honest whenever I do an MG they nearly always look like a Browning.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 30, 2019, 05:32:04 PM
I'm not at all sure you care, however...

One issue with these sorts of mechs, including the Star Wars AT-ST, is that they actually can't walk, at least not as depicted. They aren't balanced correctly to allow the wide stance of the legs to manage the balance of the vehicle when perched on one leg while the other leg advances. The human body manages this by having the distance between the hip joints and the centre of mass be a small fraction of the length of the leg, that small offset of the joint meaning that the moment arm between the body's centre of mass and the vertical position of one foot is small meaning that the torque looking to pitch the body off to one side is also small. The body starts to pitch over, nonetheless, but with a small torque, it doesn't do so very quickly and then the other foot touches the ground and balance is restored until the other foot leaves the ground and the process reverses. This provides the rolling gait of a normal human walk. When running, when the downward forces are greater due to the higher vertical accelerations experienced, you notice that people's feet start to hit the ground ever closer to the body centreline, reducing the moment arm further and, again, we don't pitch over.

These mechs, pretty much all of them, have wide spread hips and relatively short legs and move those legs relatively slowly. By the time one leg manages to lift, advance and return to contact, the mech will have angled over considerably. The only gait that works for these mechs (as depicted virtually everywhere) is the rather hopping gait of someone walking on two older style prosthetic legs. They have to virtually hop their mass up as their legs move between steps to prevent tipping over and the usual pattern mech would have to be at least as bad or worse as the legs get shorter and the hips further apart.

To remain upright in your tech world probably requires some sort of lift generator to offset the toppling torque such that the mech would remain upright. Note, of course, that this also means that the traction on the legs gets less as the weight is offset, so it might want to be a variable lift force and maybe something coupled to the walking control system to provide for the right amount of weight offset depending on what the mech is doing.

If you don't want to do that, then with the usual wider hips and short legs you probably need foot pads that cross over the centreline of the vehicle, like some of the old, win-up, tin toy robots.

But, like I say, this may be faaaaar too much engineering thought being put into this. All I can plead is that I'm an aerospace engineer and I can't help m'self.

Paul


I love the feedback and believe me I wrestle all the time with this sort of thing.
You are of course totally correct and to be honest I have never been happy with mechs largely for those very reasons. I  also think that the development  may never have taken place in my universe but I had this half finished mech idea I started about 3 years ago and it was one of those scrap it or finish decisions.
The Russians did away with their mechs anyway as alternatives like the Solokov Volkosob which is much more in keeping with my universe.which I could post if you like.


You have described what I instinctively felt was a problem for walking mechs for a long time. I'm glade someone was able to finally explain it properly.


I like the look of mechs I must admit but the tech required to keep them upright. balanced and under control seems even more crazy than the crap I come up with.
Quads just look wrong to me  .. Star Wars ATAT for instance and Spider types too leave me cold as do the real ones. Tripods as per WoW can look pretty awesome.

I have only ever done one other mech thing which is called Steel Raptor
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Stel%20Raptor.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Yves Marino on August 30, 2019, 10:56:59 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Volkosob is Russian term for a wolf hybrid breed bred by the Russian military to protect the borders.
Oh, the Wolfdog - I didn't know the Russian name of that beast. :smiley:
Which Messerschmitt fighter do you mean?
I guess it was the Bf 219. ??? The one you have shown at the ATF: two engines, 4-guns nose, yellow cowlings.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on August 31, 2019, 12:05:07 AM
I found the shop too.
Its nice of you to say but I'm not sure my stuff would fit in.

As for the scale I not sure either. Technically its an AFV but it does sort of fly .. maybe 1/41.5 scale  just to average it :)
Well, the scale decision is usually the site owner's call, Mike Fitchenmeyer (I think it's spelled), and he would also ultimately make the call as to whether it "fit" or not into his stable of products. But, to my eye, it would certainly compliment the various styles he has produced.

If you were interested, you could easily submit your designs to him., The worst he can say is "no". And he might say "da".

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 31, 2019, 12:42:28 AM
What ever happens I’m going to save those pics and see if I can gather enough parts to attempt to build this if you don’t mind. It would probably be 1/35 because of the number of tank parts required. Would the main gun be from an early model T-34?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 31, 2019, 01:34:43 AM
If you were interested, you could easily submit your designs to him., The worst he can say is "no". And he might say "da".

I'll give it some thought but I get freaky on this sort of thing.
I would have to commit time and effort which could be fun at first and then it may bug the hell out of me. I get asked if I will do commisions or get involved with peoples projects but I once turned a hobby into a business and it screwed it for me on a personal level if that makes any sense. Sounds very pretentious now I read that back but I value my artistic freedom and the time I have to do it in.

What ever happens I’m going to save those pics and see if I can gather enough parts to attempt to build this if you don’t mind. It would probably be 1/35 because of the number of tank parts required. Would the main gun be from an early model T-34?

I have no probs with my stuff being used as long as I get a credit for the design and/or a pointer to the orginal concept.
I think it would be great if you did so please go ahead. I have some other non textured renders that might help too. The cannon was not based on anything in particular and a T34 would be ideal I would say.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Robomog on August 31, 2019, 02:30:31 AM
Just translated  "Я пукнул! Я признаюсь!"   Giggled so much I woke the cat

Mog
>^-.-^<
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 31, 2019, 02:33:48 AM
The story of the North American P551 and its later transformation into perhaps the most outstanding fighter aircraft of WW2  is well known. However, often forgotten is the story of the contra spool arrangement or "dual spool" as it was known in the service.
 
The D model took advantage of the latest Tesla-Royce Merlin Electric, the TRM61, the power output of which was staggering and currently being used on early RAF Ion thrust hybrid  bomber aircraft. NA, working in conjunction with Aero Electric in the UK,were interested in expanding the field generation capabilities in order to increase the range the of Five-Fiftyone.  The type already possessed a useful range but even more was being asked for  which drop tanks and increased internal fuel capacity could not provide. However,  experiments carried out in England with double field  coil spools seemed to offer the solution.

It was found that by sliding a contra rotating  spool inside a parent spool generated a greatly expanded field. Having the master spools of both winglets spinning in opposite directions expanded both fields to a point where the normal figure of eight field expanded to a super ellipse. It was extremely power hungry but now with the TR Merlin Electric TRM61 it was possible to do so. Additionally, and much appreciated by future D variant pilots, the inner spools could be shut down requiring much less energy and so emergency capacitor power could be used if required.

The field enveloped the whole winglet area and the fuselage mid section smoothing vortices and reducing drag as well as generating lift. This reduction gave a  significant increase in fuel economy and therefore the increased range that had been called for. The increased weight of the spool assemblies was offset by an ingenious spool intake and exhaust system making full use of the Meredith effect.

D Models were initially prioritised for escort services in the Pacific attached to the B229 super heavy groups which until recently had been largely unmolested by the Japanese. However, a special detachment group of B229 was formed in England in early 1944 for  "wipe out raids" against known German vengeance and so called miracle weapon manufacturing sites. 

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/Petersons%20peepers.jpg)

Even though air superiority had swung in to the allies favour after "the big week" of February 1944, there was still a real danger to the B229 in Europe in the shape of the ageing but still very effective ME626 flak fighter.  Proximity fuse development meant that the ME626 could stand off further and worry less about accuracy.  In addition they could stay outside of the target ground flak zone and fire into the bomber stream causing high casualties amongst aircraft committed to a bombing run.

The trick was to learn the patterns of attack they used and see them as they got into position. High level raids  helped as tell tale contrails often gave them away and the escorting fighters could go in pursuit. However, there was a rumour that the Germans were using some kind of exhaust gas cooling equipment that almost stopped contrail creation by the ME626.

So it came about that almost as important as a potent long range fighter was a pair of long range eyes balls.  One such pair of eyes belonged to Major James Peterson  whose incredible eyesight would become legend.  On July 24th 1944, Peterson was leading the 357th FS on B229 escort. He knew they were being stalked, he could feel it.  Now all he  had to do was spot them. 

He scanned sky again calling up the squadron as he did so saying " keep 'em peeled guys the bastards are out there somewhere I can smell 'em". And that is exactly what each pilot of the 357th FS did  as time without number they had survived and gained the upper hand and all thanks to Peterson's peepers.



Duxford is home to an airworthy P551 owned by the fighter collection. Disappointingly  the TFC P551D “Sue says hi” had to be towed away after developing what turned out to be  quite a serious field coil issue during ground running on the Friday before the Duxford Flying Legends display.  This was a disappointment for many hoping to take pictures of her over the weekend.  I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time to grab this image.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/on%20tow.jpg)

There is also a static example of the B229 at Duxford American air force museum. After making a 7000 mile journey, B229A Behemoth makes her final touch down at Duxford on 2nd March 1980. I was there too and the sound of the B229 is something you never forget. Under the turbocharged muted throb of the 6x super wasp radials there is an almost eerie howl from the Ion thrust tunnels.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/March%201980.jpg)

Sorry for the state of the photograph but it is nearly 40 years old.
Note in the foreground the novelty retro aerofoil lifting surface types were quite the trend in the late 70's/early 80's. Cheap to build and run too.

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 31, 2019, 02:35:35 AM
 ;D
Just translated  "Я пукнул! Я признаюсь!"   Giggled so much I woke the cat

Mog
>^-.-^<

 ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 31, 2019, 04:15:07 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on August 31, 2019, 07:41:38 AM
Beautiful history and superb illustrations; you have a real talent for those.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on August 31, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
Primo, I be speechless.   :o  8)   :-*
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on August 31, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
If you were interested, you could easily submit your designs to him., The worst he can say is "no". And he might say "da".

I'll give it some thought but I get freaky on this sort of thing.
I would have to commit time and effort which could be fun at first and then it may bug the hell out of me. I get asked if I will do commisions or get involved with peoples projects but I once turned a hobby into a business and it screwed it for me on a personal level if that makes any sense. Sounds very pretentious now I read that back but I value my artistic freedom and the time I have to do it in.

What ever happens I’m going to save those pics and see if I can gather enough parts to attempt to build this if you don’t mind. It would probably be 1/35 because of the number of tank parts required. Would the main gun be from an early model T-34?

I have no probs with my stuff being used as long as I get a credit for the design and/or a pointer to the orginal concept.
I think it would be great if you did so please go ahead. I have some other non textured renders that might help too. The cannon was not based on anything in particular and a T34 would be ideal I would say.

I understand completely. If you turn a hobby into a business then its work and not always fun anymore. That's why we do this, for fun and relaxation.
I'll gladly credit your work, as soon as I get around to building it. So many ideas, so little time!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 31, 2019, 06:00:06 PM
Thank you gentlemen.
There some further images here:

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/NA%20P551D%20poster.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/B229%20Behemoth.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/Bombs%20gone.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on September 01, 2019, 12:45:58 AM
Just translated  "Я пукнул! Я признаюсь!"   Giggled so much I woke the cat
*Snort!*  That intrigued me and I translated it - good thing our cats were already awake (resting, but awake).
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on September 01, 2019, 02:50:30 PM
...
Duxford is home to an airworthy P551 owned by the fighter collection. Disappointingly  the TFC P551D “Sue says hi” had to be towed away after developing what turned out to be  quite a serious field coil issue during ground running on the Friday before the Duxford Flying Legends display.  This was a disappointment for many hoping to take pictures of her over the weekend.  I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time to grab this image.

([url]http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/on%20tow.jpg[/url])

...
Is it hard to get the field coil issue fixed? I hope we can see her flying again soon.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 01, 2019, 05:20:20 PM

Is it hard to get the field coil issue fixed? I hope we can see her flying again soon.

She is expected that to be taking part in the BoB airshow at Duxford later this month.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 02, 2019, 11:20:02 PM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Moon%20madness.jpg)

While the corpse of his double lay still smouldering in the Reich Chancellery garden, a surprisingly spritely Adolf Hitler was being prepared for his coming space flight.  His ship, an A16 Mondrakete, was ready for gantry retraction and lift off once the Fuhrer and crew were onboard.

Germany had made swift progress with Ion propulsion engines and the A16 had 4 of their most powerful to date but still she would need a last kick from a chemical rocket to achieve escape velocity.
 
No one would ever  know  if the Slavic slave worker team responsible for the mixture control assembly used unhardened taper valve pins on purpose or not but  it was effective sabotage. The assembly would work faultlessly under inspection and perhaps for one or two  low power ground runs but under load they would fail.

They say the explosion  was spectacular and oddly beautiful.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on September 03, 2019, 01:34:27 AM
Flaming Fascists are the best.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 03, 2019, 01:50:37 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on September 03, 2019, 05:31:04 AM
Good one!!  The art is utterly gorgeous, too.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on September 03, 2019, 07:48:28 AM
It's got a real Man in the High Castle (on the Moon) feel to it.

Great artwork and I look forward to seeing Schicklgruber on re-entry, completely un-aided.

Brian da Basher

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 03, 2019, 08:12:30 AM
 ;D ;D :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on September 03, 2019, 08:22:49 AM
It's got a real Man in the High Castle (on the Moon) feel to it.

Great artwork and I look forward to seeing Schicklgruber on re-entry, completely un-aided.

Hope his rocket was produced by Acme Gmbh, a consortium known for spectacular product failures. 
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on September 04, 2019, 04:27:26 AM
Nice one  :smiley:

Flaming Fascists are the best.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 12, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
I mention aerial battleships in the overview of my Alt universe time line but don’t go into much detail.  Its because of this genre of steam/diesel punk that my crap came about.  I can't live with a super lighter than air gas filled Hull so got to thinking about Nikola Tesla and others that had wild electrical levitation theories. I posted more of this somewhere but it’s not important.

Anyway, I'm thinking internally of colossal diesel electric motors/generators and accumulators to feed the power hungry lift generators and drive the electric motors for the props.  So I guess much the hull, less the superstructure is just full of diesel engines, power station grade electrical gear and seriously large amounts of diesel fuel.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Battleship/Looking%20for%20trouble.jpg)

So anyway, here we are in an alternative early 1942 and capital ships are still the pride of a nation. Here are the Predator class Battle cruisers: Huntress and her sister ship, Tigress, 2 hours out from the Scapa Flow sky dock and looking for trouble.

I'm not sure that the Royal Navy would approve of such flamboyant markings like I have on the Tigress but this is my alternative world and I'll hang furry dice off the rudder if I want to :)

Re looking at this I think that the whole era may well have passed by the time of the second world war so they don't sit well with me but are fascinating.
With that in mind I thought it time to kill them off:

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Battleship/The%20final%20moments.jpg)

In 1939 aerial battleships still held place of honour and the pride of a nation. There were however, growing concerns during the the 1930’s that the quantum leap in aerial electrical applications would challenge the superiority of the aerial battleship. Others considered them obsolete as a deterrent and offensive weapon by the outbreak of the Second World War.

In 1927 The Royal Navy commissioned the first of the Predator class ships, The Huntress, followed by her sister the ship, the Tigress the following year. Huntress was laid down in early 1928 and sky launched in 1930 with final fitting out taking place over much of that year.  However, although a formidable ship of her time, the technical advancements in aero electrical applications made her obsolete in terms of speed and lifting power. Amidst much governmental uproar with regard to costs both Huntress and Tigress were grounded for special refit.

The rest of the pre-war period saw both ships policing the empire and showing up at prestigious events around the world. By the Munich crisis both ships were brought to war standard and repainted in standard camouflage although the Tigress was allowed to keep her Tiger head motif on the bow. As a marauding pair both caused some concern to the Air arm of the Kriegs marine which found most of their time devoted to defensive operations around coastal installations such as U Boat pens that were a frequent target of both Royal Navy airships.

In the meantime German company Henschel were developing a radio controlled glide bomb with a rocket engine, the Henschel 293. This weapon was air dropped from a point outside the range of accurate anti-aircraft fire and flown in by an observer who was able to maintain eye contact with the missile by means of five flares fitted to the tail or a light for night operations.

Although this missile was developed for use against light or unarmoured shipping a more powerful, prototype, the Hs 293Z, was developed for use against aerial battleships. This version had a larger explosive charge and rocket motor with an additional fuel cell to give the weapon an extra “push” in the final seconds.  It was not considered to be a main hull penetrating weapon as the armour was too thick but several weak points had been identified as being potentially damaging enough to make the breaking off of attack a wise decision by the captain. Such weak points were the bridge and other command positions, the propeller nacelles and flight control surfaces.
An ideal target was the large lift generators that protrude from the hull. Although lightly armoured the electromagnetic field on mass effect acted as a deflector. However, the field is very weak at the point where the lift unit is secured to the hull but had proved almost impossible to target precisely.

Much success had been achieved in making aerial battleships break off attack with the 88mm canon armed Me 626 Donner Vogal and a highly modified version of this aircraft was chosen to carry the Hs293z. These modifications included removing the 88mm and replacing with shackles to mount the Hs293Z and a second observer/missile guide cockpit added.

The all up weight of the ME 626 in this configuration was only slightly more than the original 88mm with a full shell magazine drum but  with no need for the recoil dampening energy storage which could now be used for additional lift and thrust. Because of its original design as an artillery class canon mount it was also a very steady gun platform making it idea in the “stand off and guide in” role.

Mixed type flights were used with a 2:1 ratio in favour of the 88mm equipped ME262. Once the HS293z was released the modified ME 626 became a fast and surprisingly agile aircraft and with 2 x 20mm canon in the nose, able to take care of itself and often protect the 88mm armed versions.

On the morning of 4th April 1942 9 ME626, 3 were carrying the Hs293z, were ordered to intercept The Huntress as she hovered off shore at 4000ft firing her main battery at the Lorient U-boat pens.
The first strikes were by 88mm armed ME626 placing shots just below the bridge and causing much internal damage.  The first Hs293z drop suffered rocket motor failure and fell into the sea. The second two missile armed aircraft dropped almost simultaneously with the pre-planned aim of placing both missiles in the same location on the steering gear.

By this time Huntress was heading for cloud cover which was quite thick in places but patchy. Both missiles were tracking well when at about the half-way point the first lost radio control. The controller of the second had to make a quick course deviation in order to avoid the first and was now low and in danger of undershooting. With main fuel and guide flares almost exhausted, the controller slammed the controls over to port and fired the booster fuel cell leaving everything else to chance.

The Hs293z came in at roughly 40 degrees from below and slammed perfectly into the mounting ring just behind the starboard rear lift generator and penetrated 18” before exploding. The explosion ripped out the capacitor conduit head mounting resulting in a massive uncontrolled energy discharge powerful enough to melt the close by bulkhead.
During the 1931 Huntress refit, the additional room required for the upgraded lift generator compartment meant that the compartment was only one bulkhead away from the rear magazine. The energy discharge vaporised the bulkhead and ignited the magazine resulting in an explosion that tore the huntress apart.

684 men lost their lives that day and the tragedy was compounded 10 days later when the Tigress fell to another Hs293z strike again on a lift generator mount but this time on the bow. Tigress came down under control and most hands were able to escape in the air life boats. Tigress was doomed before the missile strike however as several very accurate 88mm strikes had damaged her steering gear, put the bridge out of action and ruptured her main fuel oil cell.

On 14th April 1942, just 10 days after the loss HMAS Huntress, The Tigress suffered a similar fate some 120 miles out to sea south off Cork, Ireland.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Battleship/Finding%20the%20Tigress.jpg)

Although mortally wounded Tigress had descended under control and, unlike the Huntress, most of her crew escaped. Survivors who later recounted the event describe how even though she was severely damaged she was still generating lift  and came down quite steadily not hitting the water hard and, for a second or two, seemed to float before slowly disappearing below the waves.

In the early 1980’s there had been two attempts to find the wreck of the Tigress but each had failed largely because her position was plotted by means of a best guess.  Air life boats in the 1940’s had only a charged capacitor for short duration flight. Even so, as much as 100 miles could separate the launch and landing points. Crews were in shock and in fear for their lives and so not so concerned about the whereabouts of the vessel they had just escaped from. Those that would have been aware, the Captain and his first officer, were aboard the air life boat that failed to launch properly and plunged directly into the sea and was lost.
In 1989 all the available information was reevaluated and cross checked and it was found that the likely position of the Tigress was not that far distant from the second exploration of 1984 only that her likely position was more to the north.

In July of 1989 the third exploration finally got underway after unimaginable delays and equipment malfunctions. The exploration Vessel, Deep huntress, was still not fully functional when she arrived at the first search location. The generator for the ROV’s,  Explorer 1 & 2,  would not  produce peak power and so repairs were be made that took 36 hours off the available search time.

On day 3 the first side scanning radar sweep was made and 3 hours into the sweep a contact was made. Explorer 1 was launched and on the control room monitors there came into view the undeniable shape of an air life boat. This could only be the Captains air boat and so surely the Tigress must be close by as the air boat had failed almost immediately upon launch. The area was logged and the day ended on a high note of confidence in their endeavors.

The following days brought no luck and halfway through the last day of side scanning the equipment just gave up. The mood among the crew of the Deep Huntress was now at an all-time low. To have been so seemingly close but now reduced to only what amounted to searching the sea bed with a big torch was just too much to take in.

Even so, the crew were not about to pack it all in and leave. They had six hours left and so Explorer 1 was lowered and an almost painfully slow exploration of the sea bed began. Nothing but silt, rocks and small marine life broke the endless gloom on the monitors and six hours later – still nothing.

A further 20 minutes just gave more of the same and the order was given to bring up the ROV.
The operator, tired and extremely ill tempered by this time threw procedure out the window and just brought Explorer 1 about ready for surfacing and extinguished the lights as he did. In that micro second between light and darkness was there something there as the ROV spun round?

The operator called out and scrabbled for the spotlight array switches and resumed the video feed. There was nothing but a cloud of silt stirred by the violent about turn of the ROV but then as the operator reversed his path the silt began clearing and there, disappearing into the dark was the unmistakable bulk of a Predator class aerial battleship.

She was a rusting hulk but still intact and just as impressive as she was all those years ago when she ruled the skies with her sister ship. Her discovery caused quite a stir as, other than her own rotting wreck, there is not another such intact example of an aerial battleship anywhere in the world. All were scrapped upon decommission some being converted to troop carriers for a short period of time before giving way to the scrap man’s torch.

Two more dives were made on the Tigress and in the 30 odd years since her discovery there have been some crazy ideas to salvage her that even included powering up one of her remaining lift generators – apparently feasible once you get over the problems of men working on her at that depth and a million other minor inconveniences.   

The final dive, the first in 16 years, found her in an accelerated state of decay. Her port engine nacelle has now broken away as has the mast. A lift generator has also dropped from its mounting and a hug crack appeared running from the mounting ring vertically.

Sleep well Tigress






Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 13, 2019, 03:20:50 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on September 13, 2019, 03:38:38 AM
That's an impressive combination of story and art and, given the basic premises, quite plausible.   Using lifting units rather than lifting gas makes a lot more sense for steam-punk aerial vehicles like the battleship in War of the Worlds, Goliath.

BTW, I love the way the bow of that class reminds one of a shark's nose.  That is definitely a very aesthetic touch.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Brian da Basher on September 13, 2019, 06:02:43 AM
Wicked cool steampunk vibe!
 8)
Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 13, 2019, 10:33:51 PM
Thanks guys.
I've not done much with concept although I have got two projects started. One is a second gen Dreadnought class so early WW1 era.
The other is a ... dunno really :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on September 14, 2019, 01:00:50 AM
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe, the water-typical armament layout doesn't make a lot of sense for these things leaving, as your image shows, large areas under the "waterline" that are completely incapable of being defended by the airship. Any "ship" I've conceptually designed has really needed at least a couple of the main battery guns able to address targets below the horizon plus a modest number of the secondary armament able to reach there as well.

My, admittedly middling, thinking has been that yes, big enemies are unlikely to get too close without being seen, so most of the big guns can be above (where servicing them is very much easier than below) but to completely discount an enemy getting close, in clouds, say, and to allow small enemies, even destroyer size, much less fighter size, free reign below you strikes me as exceptionally unlikely.

And, while you show a Henshel early war guided missile, I can just as easily posit a much earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo, much along the same lines as regular water torpedoes, that would have to be dealt with from below by a capital ship.

Plus, given the physics of ballistics, the airship that is operating the highest will have a significant advantage, in both range and impact kinetic energy, over any adversary at lower altitude. By this thinking, in fact, it would suggest that an aerial capital ship would fight as high as possible and that their design should have _most_ of their small armament on the underside along with one or two main gun turrets, with the other main gun turrets and some smaller weapons arrayed on the upper deck such that they can shoot directly not just upwards and horizontally, but at some reasonable angle downwards, say 30 deg, to permit direct fire against targets that are trying to maneuver below you. You end up with a turret looking not so much like an old battleship turret, but more like a bomber's front or rear turret with their greater fields of fire. Except with 12" guns, 15" of armour and a crew of 60...

 ;D ;)

Paul

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 14, 2019, 05:20:33 PM
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe...

Paul

Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad. The whole concept is crazy but they are so cool - bit like mechs which although I have done one I find to be just too impossible especially for the pre digital age.

My biggest headache is wondering and visualising how they might have developed or mutated in to some kind of smaller hybrid of aerial battleship/large bomber aircraft but everything I have tried I don't like. but I will get there.

The armament layout is of course absolutely daft and then there is the limiting height problem unless the whole damn thing is going to be pressurised which then leads you back to the fact your main armament is pointing in all the wrong directions.

The Guided weapon was modelled some time later on a whim with no real use until I thought of the story so there is no big thinking about its use here. Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?

The physics and ballistics are thoughts that are all valid but they have to be thrown out the window really because when all is said and done you are applying them to a flying battleship ;)

Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 15, 2019, 01:39:50 AM
Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad.

 :smiley: ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on September 15, 2019, 07:34:08 AM
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe...

Paul

Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad. The whole concept is crazy but they are so cool - bit like mechs which although I have done one I find to be just too impossible especially for the pre digital age.

My biggest headache is wondering and visualising how they might have developed or mutated in to some kind of smaller hybrid of aerial battleship/large bomber aircraft but everything I have tried I don't like. but I will get there.

The armament layout is of course absolutely daft and then there is the limiting height problem unless the whole damn thing is going to be pressurised which then leads you back to the fact your main armament is pointing in all the wrong directions.

The Guided weapon was modelled some time later on a whim with no real use until I thought of the story so there is no big thinking about its use here. Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?

The physics and ballistics are thoughts that are all valid but they have to be thrown out the window really because when all is said and done you are applying them to a flying battleship ;)

Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)

I always got a kick out of the airship versions of this idea with either heavy guns and superstructure or a flight deck on top of the lifting gas bags. The whole thing would flip over in a second assuming it could get off the ground. I assume Dr Tesla had this part figured out?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 15, 2019, 05:46:29 PM
If I may be so bold, and having thought about aerial battleships a bit in another, Cavourite, universe...

Paul


Dwelling too long on the practicalities of such things can drive you mad. The whole concept is crazy but they are so cool - bit like mechs which although I have done one I find to be just too impossible especially for the pre digital age.

My biggest headache is wondering and visualising how they might have developed or mutated in to some kind of smaller hybrid of aerial battleship/large bomber aircraft but everything I have tried I don't like. but I will get there.

The armament layout is of course absolutely daft and then there is the limiting height problem unless the whole damn thing is going to be pressurised which then leads you back to the fact your main armament is pointing in all the wrong directions.

The Guided weapon was modelled some time later on a whim with no real use until I thought of the story so there is no big thinking about its use here. Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?

The physics and ballistics are thoughts that are all valid but they have to be thrown out the window really because when all is said and done you are applying them to a flying battleship ;)

Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)


I always got a kick out of the airship versions of this idea with either heavy guns and superstructure or a flight deck on top of the lifting gas bags. The whole thing would flip over in a second assuming it could get off the ground. I assume Dr Tesla had this part figured out?


Tesla is part of the story although its his protege really. It gets involved so if you are interested this may be helpful:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8712.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=8712.0)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 15, 2019, 06:12:51 PM
RJ Mitchel first began thinking about fighter aircraft design during the run up to the 1927 Schneider trophy event of which his S5 machine won. The issue of Air Ministry specification F20/27 prompted yet more thought on the subject and, like many of his contemporaries, he visualised a sleek single engine machine.

Unfortunately at the time Aero Electric lift was still the domain of the multi-engine format and their design and performance was fast outstripping the single engine aircraft. Although the potential for extremely high output single power plants was seen at the Schneider events, aero engines were a long way from running to almost destruction for less than an hour to that of reliability under combat conditions time and time again before refit.

Mitchell had a great many commitments at the end of the 1920’s but after the third and final win of his Schneider contest machine in 1931 he had the time to look at some of his private and in one case radical concepts. His race design experience had shown him the future in which ultimately Ion thrust would dominate and was ably demonstrated by Aero Electric Ltd with their experimental machine in 1927.

But, in the meantime, conventional propeller thrust in either tractor or pusher configuration was here to stay and for some time. Unlike his contemporaries he was not about to give in to twin engine thinking and his first fighter design, the Type 225, was not a success although he learn many lessons which mainly involved not using what was available but to push the envelope just as he had done with his racers.

It was his racers that set the pace for his thinking and he wanted the power that those brutalised and tortured engines gave for a brief moment but not for a single race but for hours and hours and under extreme conditions without failing. It would also mean better electric lift generation but he knew that companies such as Aero Electric were waiting for the next generation of power units in order to develop their own next generation.

It was time to speak to Henry Royce at T.R. and, as is the way these things sometimes happen, it was Royce that contacted him first. Tesla-Royce had amazed themselves with the output of their R type engines for Mitchell’s racers and had continued to develop them further in the background. Royce had called Mitchell to advise on the progress and to ask if he had a suitable airframe for air testing.

Mitchel advised that he had two designs but they only existed on paper and only one of which was viable at this time. He did suggest that as secrecy was the order of the day then why not make use of one of Supermarines flying boats as a test bed. They did and soon a three engine Torbay flying boat was able to shut down its two outer Napier engines and fly on the single TR unit and at a greater level speed than a standard Torbay.
Whilst this was on-going Aero Electric had perfected powerful field coil spools for use with uncoupled power units. At Supermarine the wooden mock-up that had been recently completed of the type 300 was being used for tooling and pattern design for the prototype.

The first power plants delivered to Woolston for flight trial use were two modified R type so as Mitchel and his team could iron out any flight problems whilst the Merlin Electric was in final development. The Merlin electric development story is a long tale of frustration and in some cases much animosity and it seemed to go on for an age. In reality it was a delay of 11 months after the anticipated production date.

Meanwhile the Prototype spectre, serial K5054, was performing very well but on only about two thirds of the power promised by the Merlin Electric but aerodynamically the airframe was sound and held much potential. However, during this delay Aero Electric jumped a full generation of advancement in Field Coil Spool design and Tesla Industries was delivering the next generation of T-Coils. The culmination of all this meant that by the time the Spectre prototype was ready for unveiling much of the planned advanced post pre-production development work was well ahead of schedule and into unknown territory.

As is often the case is was not all plain sailing. Once the Merlin Electric was available there were some cooling issues with both the power plant and the remote lift generators in each winglet. There were some high speed aerodynamic problems but these had been anticipated from earlier wind tunnel tests and quickly rectified.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/spectre/Spectre-Evolution.jpg)

The first Spectres entered service with 19 Squadron based at Duxford on 4th August 1940 as a conversion unit. She was radically different to what the RAF were used to and as the Battle of Britain warmed up it was thought best by Dowding to keep her back in 12 group but still close to the action whilst experience could be built up. The Spectre began equipping 11 Group squadrons on the 28h August 1940 just as the situation was beginning to get desperate.

The first recorded Spectre kill was on August 31st when No.6 Squadron took on the high cover of a German raid consisting of BF219. The Luftwaffe high command totally dismissed its existence as it flew in the face of their own intelligence that was adamant that the RAF were desperate and down to their last handful of Hawker Hounds.

As September rolled on the Luftwaffe changed tactics and by the end of October it was pretty clear that there was not going to be an invasion attempt that year. The RAF had held off the might of a superior force and just as the tide was about to change the Spectre made its entrance. There is no doubt that the Spectre was a formidable fighting aircraft to unleash upon an enemy already beginning to show signs of stress but the adulation and glory afforded it at the detriment to that deserved by the Hawker Hound for the total period of the battle was purely the luck of circumstance.

If  the Spectre had not have entered service until early the following year as did the BF219 replacement then the Battle of Britain would have had the same ending. But, in late August when the situation looked darkest, a new sleek shape could be seen in the skies. It was an exciting shape, a shape of a future that promised peace and it was seen just as the tide was turning.

The debate about the Hound versus the Spectre is beyond the scope of this history but suffice it to say that up until the 31st August the Hound was doing pretty well.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/spectre/A%20Spectre%20in%20the%20mist%202.jpg)

The Supermarine Spectre went on to be one of the most successful and recognised fighter aeroplanes of all time. Unfortunately its creator did not live to see the full potential of his design. Mitchell died of bowel cancer on 4th April 1939 just after the Spectre had completed her pre production trials and was cleared for full production. After the war it was more widely publicised that as good as the Spectre turned out to be it was not what Mitchell really wanted to do but the story of the Supermarine Spirit is related elsewhere on this website.

The Spectre 1a was quickly superseded by the MK2 in early 1941 which used the uprated and more reliable Merlin Electric 200 with diaphragm carburettor. However, this was just a stop gap as the the promise of the Merlin Electric 250 as far back as June 1940 had a draft design ready and waiting. This version, the MKV, began joining squadrons in late June of 1941. The MKV was very similar to the MK2 but used a 4 bladed  constant speed propeller and had slightly larger LG heat sinks.

The first major redesign resulted in the what is considered to be the best of Spectre variants: The MK9.
This was the next planned version but was very much hurried into production as a reaction to the formidable Focke Wulf 390 Dolch which was first encountered in the Autumn of 1943. Tesla-Royce were now forging ahead with the development of the Merlin Electric and had a two stage supercharged version, the Merlin-Electric 350, ready. The new engine was longer than previous versions and modifications to the Spectre airframe were required in order to accommodate it along with strengthening of tail and winglet surfaces. The hurried initial MK9 production batch lacked any of the refinements of the later MK9b but was a potent fighting aeroplane with a significant performance increase over its predecessors particularly at altitude.

The MK9b is instantly recognisable by the contra rotating propeller assembly that soaked up more of the engines output but more effectively gave better ground and flight handling as the torque from the Merlin Electric 350 was, in the words of one test pilot, “pant filling”. That description could also be used, along with “bloody suicidal” as V1 killer pilot Flight Lieutenant Paul Rogers recounts. Rogers was one of many Spectre 9 pilots who when out of ammunition would use the aircrafts lift generator to topple V1 flying bombs in the Autumn of 1944. Even in the low dense air the Spectre 9 was capable of 400MPH although at that speed and height she was, again in the words of FLT Rogers “not quite as fast as her fuel gauge – you had to get in quick especially if you had been stooging about for a while and get the job done “.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/spectre/Gentley%20does%20it.jpg)

The above main variants relates just a brief history of the Spectre Without  going into to much detail or mention of the PR, high altitude or naval versions each of which has a  history making tale to tell. However, any history of the type has to make mention even if briefly of  Joe Smith and the rest of the Supermarine team that  constantly kept the pace of the Spectres development inline with the ever demanding changes of the air war and then went on to produce the world beating Spirit.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/spectre/Spectre%20posters.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 15, 2019, 09:00:30 PM
A simple fix for "Why no guns below?" is the lift generators; the lift effect affects the trajectories of weapons fired within their field & makes aiming them impossible & the weapons, therefore, useless when placed "under" the ship.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 15, 2019, 09:02:44 PM
I'd love this in kit form! :-* 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 15, 2019, 09:17:35 PM
A simple fix for "Why no guns below?" is the lift generators; the lift effect affects the trajectories of weapons fired within their field & makes aiming them impossible & the weapons, therefore, useless when placed "under" the ship.

Yes, could be some ballistic shielding effect.
I muck about with that idea elsewhere but keep the tech in its infancy  .. it fails a lot ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 15, 2019, 09:20:55 PM
I'd love this in kit form! :-* 8)

Thats been said before along with the Hound MK1 ... maybe one day ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 16, 2019, 01:23:39 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on September 16, 2019, 05:01:11 AM
Beautiful design, art, and story!!  You have a talent, sir.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 16, 2019, 05:13:41 PM
Beautiful design, art, and story!!  You have a talent, sir.

I appreciate that that  - thanks.
Problem is I'm kind of lacking inspiration at the moment.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on September 18, 2019, 06:03:09 AM
Loved your Spectre the first time I it  :-*  But those 'primer' profile sideviews have me thinking bad, bad, thoughts  ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 19, 2019, 01:14:45 AM
I would love to see a Griffon engined equivalent...and some of the German opposition.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on September 19, 2019, 01:46:45 AM
I'd love this in kit form! :-* 8)

Thats been said before along with the Hound MK1 ... maybe one day ;)
It is done in 3D. Right? There's probably ways to 3D print it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 19, 2019, 02:11:05 AM
I would love to see a Griffon engined equivalent...and some of the German opposition.


The BF319 would be the first of the contenders say what the BF109 E4 was to the Spitfire MK1a/2 but I have yet to sort that one out.
But there is the FW390 which was a bit of a shock similar to how the FW190 stirred things up.
Later Spectres could take it on in a fairly even match.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dolche/Daggers%20drawn.jpg)

There was some delay in the development of the FW390 which lay mainly with the technical difficulties associated with working with cutting edge and, in some cases, theoretical design of which the RLM were keen to push forward. With this in mind it seems contradictory that the FW390 should be given the go ahead as in reality the aircraft is a throwback to advanced wing lift designs. Designer kurk Tank had always been keen to incorporate ballistic shielding in his designs but had been unable to produce a viable prototype owing to the immense power generation requirements.

Tank was approached by Daimler Benz and offered a working prototype of a 24 cylinder design consisting of 2 x  45 degree V coupled units small enough to fit into a fighter design but giving an outstanding power output. Tank took his private designs and reworked them around the then unnamed Daimler Benz power unit. In order to capitalise on this engines outstanding power generation the FW390 develops over 50% of its lift from the aerofoil section fuselage skirt/wing assembly. The remaining lift is generated by the same technology used for aerial battleship designs which leaves an abundance of power for shield generation.

This is still the mid 1940's and until an alternative power development source is developed there are limitations to airborne force field shielding. However, the Dolch can deploy a close skin shield capable of absorbing a typical 2 to 3 second burst from a contemporary fighter such as the Spectre. After this the shield integrity falls off rapidly and will require several minutes to fully charge, longer under battle conditions where it then relies on its speed and manoeuvrability which at this time is equal to the Spectre.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dolche/Fw390%20Dolch%20(Dagger).jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 19, 2019, 02:14:44 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on September 20, 2019, 01:06:51 AM
Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?
Solid fuel rockets would be my suggestion as they have been in existence, even in our world., for many hundreds of years and an impetus (say during the First Great Unpleasantness) to shift the development of the original Whitehead torpedo from compressed gas torpedoes against water targets towards a solid rocket "torpedo" against air targets doesn't sound too far fetched. The guidance system wouldn't have to be much more complex than that of a water torpedo: a preset mechanism, based on gyroscopes, that maintains a preset heading and, in this case, flight angle. It doesn't home (at least not initially) and can't be changed once fired, just like an old torpedo. You fire a spread, which in this case would probably be a 2D array of torpedoes rather than the waterborne 1D spread, and hope one or more hit the target, rather like buckshot from a shotgun.

Quote
Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)
I love going through though processes like this. The very what-if-ness of it all actually helps me in my real world job as a design engineer. It keeps my mind open to possibilities and applies what I know to (very) different situations.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 21, 2019, 05:36:01 PM
Interested in your "earlier, more simply guided or stabilised aerial torpedo" I assume a liquid or solid state rocket but what about the more simple guidance system?
Solid fuel rockets would be my suggestion as they have been in existence, even in our world., for many hundreds of years and an impetus (say during the First Great Unpleasantness) to shift the development of the original Whitehead torpedo from compressed gas torpedoes against water targets towards a solid rocket "torpedo" against air targets doesn't sound too far fetched. The guidance system wouldn't have to be much more complex than that of a water torpedo: a preset mechanism, based on gyroscopes, that maintains a preset heading and, in this case, flight angle. It doesn't home (at least not initially) and can't be changed once fired, just like an old torpedo. You fire a spread, which in this case would probably be a 2D array of torpedoes rather than the waterborne 1D spread, and hope one or more hit the target, rather like buckshot from a shotgun.

Quote
Really love getting this sort of feed back  - thanks Paul :)
I love going through though processes like this. The very what-if-ness of it all actually helps me in my real world job as a design engineer. It keeps my mind open to possibilities and applies what I know to (very) different situations.

Paul

OK, this has caught my imagination :)
I am thinking on a device similar in length to standard torpedo with most of the body holding the solid fuel. It will be fast which will help stability but do you see bigger stabilizers and perhaps offset to give some spin?

The firing spread seems very wasteful but would look awesome :)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 22, 2019, 02:56:01 AM
I would imagine such aerial torpedoes looking a bit like bigger versions of the Henschel Hs 298:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Henschel_Hs_298.jpg)

or even something akin to this:

(https://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/GTwiner079/idas-image4_zps7235ibyj.jpg)

I am assuming wings would be a must as they would be too small for "electro lift".  Wire or radio guidance would be possible too.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 23, 2019, 05:00:13 PM
To use EL would require a large cap to power it which would be limited in flight duration plus the need for thrust which combined would leave little or no room for an explosive charge. ... perhaps a little flag could pop out with "BANG " written on it :)

tankmodeler was looking at a more simplistic approach keeping to similar principles as that of waterborne torpedoes.
I think stabilisers would be required and perhaps having them offset to create a spin which coupled with the high velocity from the solid fuel motor would keep the bugger going in a straight line ... maybe.... ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 23, 2019, 05:52:35 PM
Why not just use gyroscopic stabilisation? WW2 torpedoes had it.

Mark 14;
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Mark_14_torpedo_side_view_and_interior_mechanisms%2C_Torpedoes_Mark_14_and_23_Types%2C_OP_635%2C_March_24_1945.jpg)

Mark 18;
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Mark_18_torpedo_general_profile%2C_US_Navy_Torpedo_Mark_18_%28Electric%29%2C_April_1943.jpg)

Give it wings, tail fins & a rocket motor, move the gyro gear (which you'll notice is rather small) forward to allow room for the rocket motor, & Robert's your mother's brother's nephew's aunt's husband! :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 23, 2019, 10:19:48 PM
Find these cutaways really interesting  - nice one
Yes, the gyros would do the trick but would they be necessary I wonder if enough speed and spin is available to keep it straight?
I was wondering about a proximity fuse as well but with something like a battleship there is a need for armour piercing, blast won't cut it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on September 23, 2019, 10:46:51 PM
With respect to EL and capacitors/batteries vs propellant and warhead, I could posit a system where, much like your early WW2 fighters, the EL doesn't provide all the lift, but allows wings to be reduced to limit drag and increase speed. The rocket provides the forward speed for the wing lift as well, of course, to generate the velocity to get to the target.

The speed wouldn't have to be terribly high, say 20-30% greater than the aerial ships it is meant to kill. A pursuit course is never the way torpedoes work. They are fired at the broadside of the target and timed to intercept the target at a future point, not chase it down.

Basic setting of course and speed was known when Whitehead invented the modern water torpedo in 1866:
"The first trials were not successful as the weapon was unable to maintain a course at a steady depth. After much work, Whitehead introduced his "secret" in 1868 which overcame this. It was a mechanism consisting of a hydrostatic valve and pendulum that caused the torpedo's hydroplanes to be adjusted so as to maintain a preset depth."

And as soon as gyroscopes were available in the late 1890s, they were used instead and improved capabilities. WWI torpedoes were gyro stabilised.

Firing a spread has always been wasteful, absolutely, however until guided torpedoes came into being after WW2, firing a spread and hoping was the _only_ way to use torpedoes, so the concept is not out of hand.

In our world, torpedoes were originally fired in daylight from light ships against larger targets and from subs. The first set of techniques for daylight attack would be the obvious analogy to make, but the 3rd dimension of the EL world provide others. The submarine model could be used for attacking at night, especially moonlit nights, with the attacker moving silently on battery power and completely blacked out awaiting an enemy to come within attack range. Similarly, the PT model could be used with exceptionally fast, small EL torpedo craft lurking in clouds (analogous to PT boats lurking in inlets and bays) across the path of enemy aerial warships and then bursting out of the clouds in a small swarm to attack the bigger enemies.

The 3D nature of this EL world, though, also suggests a new method where ground anti-aerial battleship batteries launch torpedoes against enemy capital ships in a defensive manner much like the coastal batteries of our world protected harbours from enemy ships.

Loads of visual imagery there to play with.

Picture a young, dashing, New Englander at the helm of his Elco Levitation Industries 100' Patrol-Torpedo Craft, PT-109, bursting from the cover of a cloud along with the three other aircraft of his patrol to attack a destroyer-protected convoy over the Pacific in 1944. Having lain in wait for 4 hours, the convoy appears and the PT ambush is sprung. Approaching from above with two attackers to each beam of the convoy the first attack of the patrol quickly disable and dispatch the Japanese destroyer Sawakaze leaving 4 of the remaining 6 fast transports trying to resupply Rabaul to be destroyed at leisure.

Powered by 4 license-built Packard-Tesla Griffons, the Elco 100 footers could make 65kts while carrying six Whitehead-Westinghouse 24" Mk 14 aerial torpedoes, four  twin .50-cal MG turrets and two 20mm Oerlikon turrets. The ELco PT Craft were the first to carry oxygen for all crew members allowing them to attack from much higher altitudes than previous craft. Later in the war, as targets dried up, PT Craft carried fewer and fewer torpedoes and increased the number of autocannon and switched to raiding the more local aerial shipping lanes for smaller vessels.


:D

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on September 23, 2019, 10:53:44 PM
Find these cutaways really interesting  - nice one
Yes, the gyros would do the trick but would they be necessary I wonder if enough speed and spin is available to keep it straight?
Spin for an unguided projectile would have to be pretty high meaning that you are back to needing a LOT of propellant. And, essentially the projectile needing to achieve gun-like speeds which drive the propellant needs way up.

Quote
I was wondering about a proximity fuse as well but with something like a battleship there is a need for armour piercing, blast won't cut it.
Proximity fuses need radar. For later in the war, absolutely, but, as you say, it would be pretty useless given that your aerial battleships are heavily armoured. You need a hit.

One of the differences between a water torpedo and an aerial one is that water provides a magnifying effect on explosions, i.e. with a torpedo exploding on he side of a ship in water, the water acts to drive most of the explosion effect into the ship, not the water. For an aerial torpedo, this wouldn't be the case and the bulk of the effect would be away from the armour.  Now, a hollow charge warhead, though, would see all the explosive effect be driven into and through the armour.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on September 23, 2019, 11:00:32 PM
Perhaps torpedoes with shaped charge warheads from the beginning, to get better penetrating power in the air?  The principle was well known long before it was applied to anti-tank weaponry.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 23, 2019, 11:10:56 PM
With respect to EL and capacitors/batteries vs propellant and warhead, I could posit a system where, much like your early WW2 fighters, the EL doesn't provide all the lift, but allows wings to be reduced to limit drag and increase speed. The rocket provides the forward speed for the wing lift as well, of course, to generate the velocity to get to the target.

The speed wouldn't have to be terribly high, say 20-30% greater than the aerial ships it is meant to kill. A pursuit course is never the way torpedoes work. They are fired at the broadside of the target and timed to intercept the target at a future point, not chase it down.

Basic setting of course and speed was known when Whitehead invented the modern water torpedo in 1866:
"The first trials were not successful as the weapon was unable to maintain a course at a steady depth. After much work, Whitehead introduced his "secret" in 1868 which overcame this. It was a mechanism consisting of a hydrostatic valve and pendulum that caused the torpedo's hydroplanes to be adjusted so as to maintain a preset depth."

And as soon as gyroscopes were available in the late 1890s, they were used instead and improved capabilities. WWI torpedoes were gyro stabilised.

Firing a spread has always been wasteful, absolutely, however until guided torpedoes came into being after WW2, firing a spread and hoping was the _only_ way to use torpedoes, so the concept is not out of hand.

In our world, torpedoes were originally fired in daylight from light ships against larger targets and from subs. The first set of techniques for daylight attack would be the obvious analogy to make, but the 3rd dimension of the EL world provide others. The submarine model could be used for attacking at night, especially moonlit nights, with the attacker moving silently on battery power and completely blacked out awaiting an enemy to come within attack range. Similarly, the PT model could be used with exceptionally fast, small EL torpedo craft lurking in clouds (analogous to PT boats lurking in inlets and bays) across the path of enemy aerial warships and then bursting out of the clouds in a small swarm to attack the bigger enemies.

The 3D nature of this EL world, though, also suggests a new method where ground anti-aerial battleship batteries launch torpedoes against enemy capital ships in a defensive manner much like the coastal batteries of our world protected harbours from enemy ships.

Loads of visual imagery there to play with.

Picture a young, dashing, New Englander at the helm of his Elco Levitation Industries 100' Patrol-Torpedo Craft, PT-109, bursting from the cover of a cloud along with the three other aircraft of his patrol to attack a destroyer-protected convoy over the Pacific in 1944. Having lain in wait for 4 hours, the convoy appears and the PT ambush is sprung. Approaching from above with two attackers to each beam of the convoy the first attack of the patrol quickly disable and dispatch the Japanese destroyer Sawakaze leaving 4 of the remaining 6 fast transports trying to resupply Rabaul to be destroyed at leisure.

Powered by 4 license-built Packard-Tesla Griffons, the Elco 100 footers could make 65kts while carrying six Whitehead-Westinghouse 24" Mk 14 aerial torpedoes, four  twin .50-cal MG turrets and two 20mm Oerlikon turrets. The ELco PT Craft were the first to carry oxygen for all crew members allowing them to attack from much higher altitudes than previous craft. Later in the war, as targets dried up, PT Craft carried fewer and fewer torpedoes and increased the number of autocannon and switched to raiding the more local aerial shipping lanes for smaller vessels.


:D

Paul


That is a lot of imagery and its fired a few extra neurons  and I might also be getting a little moist :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 23, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
Proximity fuses need radar......


Not always so:

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Storm%20coming.jpg)

Just stand off and fire into the bomber stream :)

Dunno why but this is my most popular image. I think I have done better.
Inspired by the label given to the JU87 -   “flying artillery”.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on September 24, 2019, 09:29:09 PM
Proximity fuses need radar......
Not always so:
Yeah, they need radar because the fuses themselves are mini radar sets. That's the point I was making, not that you need radar to find or target the enemy, but that the round, itself, needs miniature radar to actually set itself off in proximity to the target.  :D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on September 24, 2019, 09:38:37 PM
That is a lot of imagery and its fired a few extra neurons  and I might also be getting a little moist :)
For an aerospace engineer, I can occasionally wax lyrical...

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 24, 2019, 11:38:24 PM
Proximity fuses need radar......
Not always so:
Yeah, they need radar because the fuses themselves are mini radar sets. That's the point I was making, not that you need radar to find or target the enemy, but that the round, itself, needs miniature radar to actually set itself off in proximity to the target.  :D

This is true my mistake.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: deathjester on September 25, 2019, 06:14:24 AM
Amazing!!  I love these artworks!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 26, 2019, 04:33:21 PM
Amazing!!  I love these artworks!

Appreciate that thank you :)
Going through a bit of a lean period inspirationally at the moment but this happens now and again but the bounce back is fun  ... usually
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on September 28, 2019, 01:22:41 PM
Anybody have any idea where a guy could find a gun to fit this beast? I was google searching for model artillery but I didn't get any useful hits. Is there a tank gun that might be close to this? Maybe an open top vehicle like a Hellcat tank destroyer? The MGs I could find and the body I would just vacuform but I would like to have a gun with the breech to build around.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 28, 2019, 05:42:37 PM
Anybody have any idea where a guy could find a gun to fit this beast? I was google searching for model artillery but I didn't get any useful hits. Is there a tank gun that might be close to this? Maybe an open top vehicle like a Hellcat tank destroyer? The MGs I could find and the body I would just vacuform but I would like to have a gun with the breech to build around.

I haven't got a clue as all I do is push pixels but I'm dead happy you are considering building it :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on September 28, 2019, 08:31:32 PM
Thanks! We’ll see what happens. Best laid plans of mice and men and all that.
I could just get a metal gun barrel and fake the rest. Just box it in under the cockpit floor. Of course with a one man/woman crew it would have to have an auto loader as I’m sure it’s not a one shot weapon. I should start writing this down.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 28, 2019, 08:36:16 PM
Anybody have any idea where a guy could find a gun to fit this beast? I was google searching for model artillery but I didn't get any useful hits. Is there a tank gun that might be close to this? Maybe an open top vehicle like a Hellcat tank destroyer? The MGs I could find and the body I would just vacuform but I would like to have a gun with the breech to build around.

Your scale is going to be the limiting factor with availability of anything. The following is for 1/35.

The workings of the gun seem hidden in the body of the beast (which means a rough block of wood or styrene of appropriate size would work), so you really only need the barrel, of which you can get any number.

75mm works best for US/British/German vehicles.
Link to examples: https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&categories_id=222&scale=1%2F35&search_in_description=0&keyword=75mm&inc_subcat=0&page=1&zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33 (https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&categories_id=222&scale=1%2F35&search_in_description=0&keyword=75mm&inc_subcat=0&page=1&zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33)

However, if you insist on internals, this is a good, reasonably priced option: https://www.bnamodelworld.com/military-vehicles-tanks-detail-up-parts-resicast-res-352280?zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33 (https://www.bnamodelworld.com/military-vehicles-tanks-detail-up-parts-resicast-res-352280?zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33)


If you want an American/Western version you could stick with the .50-cal's (you can get them anywhere!) but for a Soviet version may I suggest the 12.7mm DShK (Dushka)?
Link for examples: https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&scale=1/35&search_in_description=0&keyword=dshk&inc_subcat=0&zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33 (https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&scale=1/35&search_in_description=0&keyword=dshk&inc_subcat=0&zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33)

For the Soviet version I'd also suggest going for a 76mm main gun, unfortunately the only way I can see to get the gun internals is to buy an SU-76 (see below).
Link: https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&categories_id=8&scale=1%2F35&search_in_description=0&keyword=su-76&inc_subcat=0 (https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&categories_id=8&scale=1%2F35&search_in_description=0&keyword=su-76&inc_subcat=0)

Or, again, just go for the barrel & a block of stuff.
Link: https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&categories_id=222&scale=1%2F35&search_in_description=0&keyword=su-76%20gun&inc_subcat=0&zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33 (https://www.bnamodelworld.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&categories_id=222&scale=1%2F35&search_in_description=0&keyword=su-76%20gun&inc_subcat=0&zenid=56dee8e8ff826d12409d5a3533f85e33)


Best I can do for you, mate! ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 28, 2019, 09:40:26 PM
Thanks! We’ll see what happens. Best laid plans of mice and men and all that.
I could just get a metal gun barrel and fake the rest. Just box it in under the cockpit floor. Of course with a one man/woman crew it would have to have an auto loader as I’m sure it’s not a one shot weapon. I should start writing this down.


I figured on an auto loader. I mention in the story it was an adaptation of the one used on the ME626

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Storm%20coming.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on September 29, 2019, 06:51:28 AM
Many thanks to Old Wombat for looking up all that information! Now I have to put it to good use. I thought about an anti gravity GB but that guarantees I’ll be late building it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 24, 2019, 01:26:05 AM
Happened to be in Cambridgeshire on Monday so a quick visit to Duxford only seemed right. I was glad to find P551 "Sue says hi" is over her field coil issue and cleared for flight. Problem is now its going to be next year before I get to see her airborne again ... heavy sigh!

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P551-b229/FIxed now.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on October 24, 2019, 04:54:14 PM
That's just brilliant! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on October 24, 2019, 05:16:39 PM
Totally way cool  8)

Only improvement would be some squish at bottom of tires.   Not complaining......
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: zzshogunate on October 24, 2019, 07:14:10 PM
Yo this is excellent!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 25, 2019, 01:38:02 AM
Thanks all  but I'm not there yet.
Got a way to go before I get  a decent "fooled you" image but I'm working on it ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on October 25, 2019, 11:39:33 PM
Totally love this design.

So now I'm thinking how to make a physical one:

P80 nose with P80 nose gear
P51 centre fuselage
P51 engine/prop installation in pusher configuration
P51 wings and main gear
TRM661s probably turned on a lathe including the rear booms
Vertical stab is probably a modified Mustang tail with scratchbuilt strakes
Horizontal stab is probably modified mustang parts.

The TRM61 booms would be the hardest of all that, I think. make one and then cast another.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 26, 2019, 12:31:54 AM
Totally love this design.

So now I'm thinking how to make a physical one:

P80 nose with P80 nose gear
P51 centre fuselage
P51 engine/prop installation in pusher configuration
P51 wings and main gear
TRM661s probably turned on a lathe including the rear booms
Vertical stab is probably a modified Mustang tail with scratchbuilt strakes
Horizontal stab is probably modified mustang parts.

The TRM61 booms would be the hardest of all that, I think. make one and then cast another.

Paul

You have it pretty well summed up.
Would love to see this made.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 30, 2019, 01:41:41 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Winged%20wraiths%20.jpg)

To state that the de Havilland 998 was too radical a departure from how the pre-war air ministry thought would be an understatement. Wooden construction, unarmed, two man crew !!! Some even openly scoffed at the very idea but never the less de Havilland pressed the case for their design with dogged determination and the rest is, well y’know.

Initially the concept was never going to find favour but the outbreak of war did renew interest from the ministry although they were very sceptical. They wanted heavy armament, turrets, at least a three man crew and basically everything that would defeat the object of the DH 998 concept. The irony is that the air ministry requirement for a multi role combat aircraft capable of taking care of itself was exactly what the DH 998 would become and would do so by staying faithful to the original de Havilland design.

After a series of stops and starts and endless ministry interference the project was actually cancelled in June of 1940 and de Havilland told to concentrate on its war work. The reasoning was that Britain should concentrate on a known quantity of types and not waste resources of both manufacturing potential and materials on what was described by one senior air staff member as “utter folly”.

However, the DH 998 concept had won over some air staff one or two of which could throw weight behind their support and they argued in favour of the concept. The fact that the design relied upon wood, a none strategically restricted material, could not be ignored. Nor could the performance potential of the proposal which would give the RAF a twin engine design faster than the Supermarine Spectre which was about to enter service.

The Air Ministry was reluctant to add yet another airframe to the growing list of types currently making use of, and yet still to enter service with, the Tesla Royce Merlin Electric. This power plant was already late going into production and demand was high but de Havilland had an ace up their sleeve. 

The initial concept had looked at interchangeable power plants for the DH 998 in case of shortages and/or future superior performance gains from other manufacturers. Both Napier’s and Bristol had been considered with Bristol showing considerable promise in its new Minotaur power unit. However at the time the TR Merlin Electric was the more mature of the new breed currently in development and was made first choice. Fortuitously the original winglet/power unit mount design was retained which had a universal fitting arrangement to cater for inline and radial based power units in either tractor or pusher configuration.

Whilst de Havilland and the Air Ministry saga played out the Bristols Minotaur electric had gone from strength to strength. There were some teething troubles with cylinder head temperatures and early output shaft generator clutch failures but in the main the unit showed from an early stage what a potentially powerful performer it would become.
Also at this time the decision was made to call the aircraft the Wraith although the company had toyed with the idea of calling it the Mosquito or Wasp or other winged stinging insect. It was pointed out that those insects were a source of annoyance as was the concept as far as the ministry was concerned so they went with a supernatural type name which for some reason best known only to themselves was favoured by the Air Ministry at this time.

Eventually the Bristol Minotaur would be the first of what would become known as the “super lift” power unit generation for Bomber and Transport aircraft. In mid 1943 the unit was modified with so called EMFEM (ElectroMagnetic Field Effect on Mass) amplifiers. This technology would later become the basis for defensive shield generation albeit in a very crude form by todays standards. 

The Wraith B1 was formidable in performance with standard Bristol Minotaur electrics but with the Super lift variant the type B2 significantly increased its bomb carrying capacity without sacrificing anything in speed and increased its rate of climb even with its more pronounced bomb bay. B2 RAF ground crews of course jumped on the chance of nicknaming the machine “fatboy” which became common usage.
 
This extra capacity and performance lead to the formation of specialist squadrons operating at section level and therefore enabling one squadron to attack two or three targets simultaneously or at intervals that would disrupt and confuse the German defences.  A section comprising of three to four aircraft would cross the channel and enter enemy occupied territory at extremely low level and then zoom climb to bombing height. These specialist crews became very good at this kind of operation of which was reminiscent of the 1940 raids by the Thor powered JU885z but with rather less attrition.

One such witness to a dawn raid in early 1944  said that:
“They seemed to appear as if from nowhere with a sudden deafening roar then rise up suddenly like winged wraiths* and deliver their terrible load and be gone”

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/DH%20Wraith%20B2.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on November 30, 2019, 03:15:33 AM
Beautiful!!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on November 30, 2019, 04:37:07 AM
Your artwork and imagination are both fantastic! I’ve got to build one of these!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 30, 2019, 04:40:24 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on November 30, 2019, 09:39:21 AM
I’m trying to figure out the landing gear. Nose gear?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on November 30, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
Ooo, that is lovely  :-*  Somehow that bulging bomb-bay makes it look faster if anything  :smiley:

I’m trying to figure out the landing gear. Nose gear?

The crew door shown in the 'in action' shot would be a bit awkwardly placed for a conventional tricycle gear. Perhaps some sort of reversed trike ... with main gear retracting into the wings and a longish tailwheel retracting into the space behind the bomb bay?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 30, 2019, 07:13:42 PM

I’m trying to figure out the landing gear. Nose gear?


The crew door shown in the 'in action' shot would be a bit awkwardly placed for a conventional tricycle gear. Perhaps some sort of reversed trike ... with main gear retracting into the wings and a longish tailwheel retracting into the space behind the bomb bay?



Landing gear is always a pain on this stuff because I am cramming so much into the nacelle. The top right ghosted image is something I want to complete but its very much a WIP at the moment.
There is the whole of the double row Minotaur up front, generator, field coil spool, T coils and EMFEM amps so this is going to be really tight and to be honest I'm fed up of the bugger for the time being :)

The nose wheel position is again tight as you mention but this could all work from a distance perhaps.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Dangly%20bits.jpg)


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 01, 2019, 02:31:38 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on December 01, 2019, 03:31:43 AM
These images answer my question very well. Looks like it would take a couple of Sea Furies and a Mosquito to get this started.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on December 01, 2019, 07:26:56 AM
Very nice ... and much simpler than what I was imagining  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on December 01, 2019, 06:57:03 PM
One thing that has just hit me is that  I bet the ground crews would hate bombing up this machine - not a lot of clearance.
I might have to think about some jacks built into the U/C for this because I can't see a Cookie being loaded at the moment :(
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 02, 2019, 01:43:13 AM
Maybe just dig weapons load pits at all bases?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on December 02, 2019, 06:08:25 PM
Maybe just dig weapons load pits at all bases?


Yeah I guess but this would lead to limiting the bases it could operate from and lead to a great many accidents perhaps :)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Bombbay.jpg)

I could modify the bomb bay at the rear as per image or I could just forget all about it and move  on :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on December 02, 2019, 06:30:25 PM
Can you not just have it flush or very slightly bulged, like the dH Mosquito? ???
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on December 02, 2019, 11:59:21 PM
Bomb loading doors built into the side of the bomb bay?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on December 03, 2019, 12:13:39 AM
One thing that has just hit me is that  I bet the ground crews would hate bombing up this machine - not a lot of clearance.
I might have to think about some jacks built into the U/C for this because I can't see a Cookie being loaded at the moment :(

Clamshell the aft portion of the bomb bay bulge (a bit of alliteration for a Monday, then?) to permit the cookie to be loaded. Loading pits really aren't going to be a good way to go, I don't think as they imply a lot more infrastructure at the bases, which would be really unwanted.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on December 03, 2019, 01:59:50 AM
Loading pits are a lot more work for the ground crews as each aircraft has to be backed over the pit and moved away again. Imagine doing that many times each day!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on December 03, 2019, 08:24:31 PM
Can you not just have it flush or very slightly bulged, like the dH Mosquito? ???

Yes, could reduce the bulge but the idea was to increase the capacity quite considerably for the B2 version to take advantage of the super lift Minotaur variant.
With hindsight I think I went too far to be honest.

Bomb loading doors built into the side of the bomb bay?

Sort of like the B24 ?
Thats not a bad idea ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on December 04, 2019, 12:12:41 AM
Bomb loading doors built into the side of the bomb bay?

Sort of like the B24 ?
Thats not a bad idea ;)
From an engineering POV, it's a really good idea and would give you virtually all the distance between the lower wing surface and the ground to bring in the cookie.

It would imply a sideways loading bomb cart/trolley which would be a little more complicated than the typical WW2 "roll the trolley under the plane and winch up the bombs" approach, but it's not too much of a stretch to add a specialised ground support equipment for a specific and important weapon. A second set of casters, a movable parallelogram frame on the bomb trailer and a screw jack to translate the cookie from under the wing, but beside the bomb bay, to just under the bomb bay and ready to be winched up. Not too hard and no need for extra motors, etc.

It unfortunately would clutter the beautifully clean look of the simple clamshell doors, mind, but could add a more business-like look to things, perhaps.

The B24 doors rolled up on the outside of the fuselage, these would have to roll up internally.

Really do like how this looks.

I'm starting to consider how a Grumman Avenger-based torpedo-bomber would look in this world? More brutish, turret, one big radial powering two wing-mounted lift coils, long bomb bay for a torpedo. A tail dragger for carrier use.   ???

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on December 19, 2019, 02:33:32 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Minotaur%20Electric.jpg)

Working on stuffing those big necelles with kit .
Got the Minotaur (Centaurus) sorted but have mated this to earlier AE kit for the time being and I might leave the project for a while because I'm fed up of looking at it :)

Thanks for all the feedback guys and I wish you all a very merry Crimbo and a fantastic New year.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on December 20, 2019, 02:02:33 AM
Ooooooo! Really like the look of the engine. You've captured the look of a used propeller spline connection perfectly! That's really bloody well done!

Question - in your world does the recip engine have to be directly connected to the lift section or could it be connected to the generators and then run two lift coils out on the winglets? Still thinking of how an Avenger-equivalent might look...

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on December 20, 2019, 06:37:01 AM
Question - in your world does the recip engine have to be directly connected to the lift section or could it be connected to the generators and then run two lift coils out on the winglets? Still thinking of how an Avenger-equivalent might look...

Yes although these so called uncoupled thrust units were only coming on line at the end of the the 1930's. Thats way my early types, say BoB era Hurricane (Hound) and BF109 (BF219) are twins simply because the power generation train was not powerful enough to power single engine types against the new generation of fast medium bombers that emerged in the 30's.  Once a useful war and fuel load was added a single engined fighter began to lose ground over the twin.

Advances in power generation and conditioning changed this and more conventional weight and drag limitations came into play. However, coupled thrust units remained in use as the whole train could be mounted in a nacelles as per the Wraith but the uncoupled trust units have the field coils (lift generators) that are mounted remotely in winglets  such as the Supermarine Spectre and Spirit the later having ion thrust instead of a prop. Another is the P551 which has remote field coils also but these are later still being the equivalent of the the introduction of the Laminar wing.

I should give some thought to US navy types and a monster Avenger could be very interesting. There is a problem though:
How is this tech being employed in naval hardware and if radical then the nature or attack and defence will be different and so the Avenger as we know it might never have been a development consideration.

The tech in which the ELG for aviation grew out of was that of the aerial battleship so are the navy still flying about or are they using some sort of hybrid ground effect craft. I favour the hybrid which would make attack a different ball game  perhaps.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 02, 2020, 11:15:23 PM
I should give some thought to US navy types and a monster Avenger could be very interesting. There is a problem though:
How is this tech being employed in naval hardware and if radical then the nature or attack and defence will be different and so the Avenger as we know it might never have been a development consideration.

The tech in which the ELG for aviation grew out of was that of the aerial battleship so are the navy still flying about or are they using some sort of hybrid ground effect craft. I favour the hybrid which would make attack a different ball game  perhaps.
In a world where there are flying warships, the Avenger/torpedo bomber type attack is still valid per our earlier discussion about stabilised, but unguided real torpedoes. They would become even more effective with limited guidance by the end of WW2. Possibly to the point where aerial warships were no longer relevant?

If so surface or ground effect warships would probably com back into vogue, but even then a torpedo is a good way to deliver a warhead to a target and on or near the surface, the guidance problems are even easier, not having to deal with variation in the height dimension.

The real reason these sorts of aircraft would probably still exist is that the stand-off weapon, the torpedo or unguided missile, as the case may be, has a very limited range. You need the bomber to get the weapon within range. The weapon is bulky with the included powerplant and warhead, so a form factor like a torpedo still makes sense, therefore a delivery aircraft like an Avenger still makes sense. And, without a true guidance system you still need to get the weapon close enough so that it's combination of speed and direction by the aircraft that will put the weapon on target. Attack formation would have to account for the 3rd dimension maneuverability of the target.

In fact, far from being eliminated, the ELG world may only have torpedo bombers for anti-ship work as how else are you going to knock out a flying warship? Dive bombing seems to be unlikely unless those dive bombers could _always_ achieve a significant height advantage over the warships. It would, on any existing engine technology base, lead them to being more and more fragile in order to achieve higher and higher altitudes on the limited power available from the recip engines at which point you are not going to dive bomb with them nor are you likely to level bomb as even real world ship maneuvers made level bombing next to useless against surface ships. Stabilised, stand-off weapon launching aircraft would seem to be the best way to attack large, armoured flying targets.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 03, 2020, 11:30:08 PM
I'd look at RW events post-WW2 for what would happen in the ELG (?) world.

Aerial battleships would become redundant but cruisers, destroyers & frigates would come into their own, & aircraft carriers would be the capital ships.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 04, 2020, 01:15:05 AM
I'm thinking of an Avenger that might look like this with the wings holding two podded lift coils.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 15, 2020, 06:01:12 PM
I'm thinking of an Avenger that might look like this with the wings holding two podded lift coils.

Sorry, totally missed this. Real life has this freaking habit of getting in the way of the good stuff :)
Interesting and I see where this could go although some sort of vertical stabiliser would be required I think.  I have a couple of things on the go but I think I will block out some ideas to see how they look and post them for feedback.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 15, 2020, 06:45:52 PM
(http://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/JU885z/Hedge%20hopper.jpg)

By 1933 Germany had become a leading advocate of the fast unarmed medium bomber concept coining the term Schnellbomber (literally "fast bomber").  The concept was taken very seriously by the new chancellor and several designs from notable manufacturers such as Heinkel, Dornier and Junkers were to enter service over the next five years.

The speed advantage enjoyed over interceptors of the day was, in part, achieved by having no defensive armament. The weight saving of having no heavy calibre guns, ammunition and gunner(s) went a long way to keeping the bombers cruising speed in excess of that of the contemporary fighter aircraft. However, the major contributing factor to the multi-engine aircrafts success was the room for additional lift and weight compensation equipment of the layout.

This was exploited to the full at Junkers Flugzeug- und Motorenwerke, where the aero engine division had made a breakthrough in very high lift/weight power units. The Jumo Elektrisch 211 power cell gave not just extra electrical generation and thrust but made use of compact additional secondary T-Coil windings solely to boost the electrical field on mass (EFM) effect.

The Woten power cell, as it was christened, was capable of generating very high voltages and Junkers went ahead with a 4 engine design which would have given Germany a first class strategic bomber from the outset of World War two. However, such was the belief in fast medium bombers in a tactical role amongst the higher powers in Germany that the 4 engine design was cancelled.

Junkers own design, The JU 885 was, after some initial teething problems perhaps the best of Germany’s Schnellbomber designs. The A  series certainly was fast and unarmed but it was found by the late 1930’s that bomber interceptor aircraft such as the British Hawker Hound and later the Supermarine Spectre, could easily intercept the Schnellbomber especially when carrying a war load.

Junkers wrung even more power out of the Woten developing a more powerful version called the “Thor” which unfortunately was excessively fuel hungry at its best energy output range and prone to early coil burn out. However, there was a use for such a power plant.

EFM power units have a ground effect characteristic similar to that of conventional lifting surfaces only coming into effect at the high power outputs a pilot would use to become airborne or use in a typical “float” touch down. 
A modified JU885 with prototype Thor units was test flown by KG 54, a unit that had specialised in low flying operations, to see if the Thor units additional power could be of use. The substantial EFM of the Thor units made it almost impossible to “sink” the aircraft below a certain height. You could of course fly the aircraft into the ground deliberately but easing down into the float felt like you were riding on the back of a flatbed lorry.

A small production batch of JU885 known as the JU885z were delivered to KG54 for low level operation development for which they were highly successful. KG54 carried out many daring early war raids including attacks on the British radio detection masts which thankfully were never followed up.

The major tactic of KG54 was to approach the target at high speed and very low level rising to bombing level some 20 miles out from the target.  By reducing the 8000lb maximum internal bomb load by 25%  the JU885z had an additional reserve of energy that could be employed on the final climb to bomb height which meant that the aircraft climbed like a lift seemingly coming out of nowhere, hitting the target and then diving back to hedge hopping height for home.

Although Britain’s advanced use of radio detection was unknown to the Germans at this stage of the war, KG54 was in actual fact unable to be seen by it owing to the specialist low level intruder raids it carried out. Thankfully, Britain had a secondary and somewhat much less technical warning system known as the observer Corp who were extremely good at their job. Once the hedge hopping technique was anticipated the Observer Corp began the hunt and the Hounds were let loose.

Footnote
There was in actual fact a Junkers design designated the JU85 with a twin fin tail around the same time as the more famous JU88 was under development but it was scrapped in favour of the 88. My JU885 has a bit of Heinkel and Dornier as well as Junkers along with a sizeable amount of bull.

Footnote 2
Some of the more sadder, sorry, eagle eyed among you will notice that the above image has a three bladed prop and the Thor unit, if you looked at it, has  four.
This is because the image above is of a KG54 aircraft fitted with the older Woten power unit.
I would get on well as a politician with truth adjustments like that ;)

(http://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/JU885z/Thor.jpg)

(http://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/JU885z/JU885z.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 15, 2020, 09:21:57 PM
Ni-ice! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 16, 2020, 01:06:28 AM
I'm thinking of an Avenger that might look like this with the wings holding two podded lift coils.

Sorry, totally missed this. Real life has this freaking habit of getting in the way of the good stuff :)
Real life is occasionally overrated, but usually wins out in the end! :-)

Quote
Interesting and I see where this could go although some sort of vertical stabiliser would be required I think.
Oh it would absolutely need a vertical stab, but I was thinking that the lift coils out on the end of the winglets would extend back into twin booms to provide the tail surfaces.

Something like this:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 16, 2020, 02:39:50 AM
More images please
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 16, 2020, 02:44:21 AM
Something like this:

 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 16, 2020, 02:52:42 AM
Something like this:

 :smiley:

Yeah, I could work with this but I do have a habit of going off towards the borders of daft city sometimes so beware.
I need to finish this 12.8CM Flak thing I'm struggling with then I'll block out something
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 16, 2020, 03:10:23 AM
More images please


I have nothing really finished as I only built to have something for the Hound to shoot at :)
There is this pre weathered texture test render:
(http://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/JU885z/JU885z%20test%20render.jpg)

...and this panels bump map test:

(http://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/JU885z/JU885z%20panels%20test.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on January 16, 2020, 03:53:40 AM
Great stuff  :smiley:  And love seeing your in-progress texture tests  :-*
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 16, 2020, 08:44:17 AM
tankmodeler's boom layout severely restricts the functional field of fire of the ball turret; I'd have the booms either shorter or projecting forward, or the fuselage longer, or a bit of all three. ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 16, 2020, 08:47:37 AM
CG modelling (especially 3D) is a mystical art, to me, but damn that's good! :D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 16, 2020, 09:44:26 PM
Great stuff  :smiley:  And love seeing your in-progress texture tests  :-*

Thanks.
To be honest I was going to show more WIP as I posted along the way but thought it might be a boring to most.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 16, 2020, 09:55:47 PM
CG modelling (especially 3D) is a mystical art, to me, but damn that's good! :D

Its not so much a mystery as it is a tough learning curve as far as most software is concerned - was fro me anyway.
There is usually more than one way of approaching something and knowing your toolset and what they all do is the first step. After that its like playing an instrument or some kind of sport - practice practice and practice some more and it all comes together.

I love it except for one aspect which I need to do very often. UV mapping or basically unwrapping the model so as it can be viewed in 2D space in an ap like photshop for texture mapping, bump/displacement mapping, specular map etc etc. I love what you can do when its done but I would rather eat my own ear wax than start a new UV session.

I don't always have to UV map though as I can use procedural texturing techniques and get round the need for a UV map but camo schemes and the like need a UV map. Something like the Minotaur engine was all procedural.

... sorry, gone on a bit there :)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 16, 2020, 10:02:17 PM
tankmodeler's boom layout severely restricts the functional field of fire of the ball turret; I'd have the booms either shorter or projecting forward, or the fuselage longer, or a bit of all three. ;)

Yes I thought so too re the field of fire.
Its looking a bit P551 as well but I did wonder about perhaps having the payload in deeper nacelles perhaps. I have some other ideas too but it may look a lot Less Avenger-ish which might be a shame now I think about it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 16, 2020, 10:11:52 PM
I was thinking if you took off about 20-25% of the nacelle length & pushed them forward, so the fronts lined up with the front of the engine cowling, on angled winglets, so you got a V-shaped nacelle-fuselage-nacelle form, it could look pretty funky & give the appropriate cover-yer-arse field of fire.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 16, 2020, 10:22:24 PM
"... the appropriate cover-yer-arse field of fire"

Like that :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 16, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
In the normal Avenger, the tail sits directly aft of the turret restricting the field of fire dead aft, where one's arse normally is...  :D

The tail will always restrict fire, but in this case I chose to provide explicit cover to the rear, above and below with the rear turret. There is precedent for this as the WWII BV138 had two turrets mounted between two booms and the lower rear turret had the horizontal stab to deal with as well. I've moved all that outboard of the booms.

Moving the lift nacelles forward is fine, but you need to keep the tail aft to actually provide the /righting/turning moment that is what it's used for. Move them forward and they get exponentially bigger. You also have to manage the weight balance fore and aft. You can't have all the mass up forward.

Lastly, angling the booms outwards may look interesting, but would add massively to the drag as the aircraft flew and really degrade not just speed, but handling, especially at low speeds which is where a torpedo bomber spends a lot of time. It would also make carrier landings rather more "sporty".  ???

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 17, 2020, 07:43:57 AM
Lastly, angling the booms outwards may look interesting, but would add massively to the drag as the aircraft flew and really degrade not just speed, but handling, especially at low speeds which is where a torpedo bomber spends a lot of time. It would also make carrier landings rather more "sporty".  ???

Paul

Nah, mate, I wasn't talking about angling the booms but, rather, the winglets so you got a boom\fuselage/boom arrangement (with \ & / representing the winglets).
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 17, 2020, 09:27:02 AM
Nah, mate, I wasn't talking about angling the booms but, rather, the winglets so you got a boom\fuselage/boom arrangement (with \ & / representing the winglets).
Ahhh! Cranking the winglets out to the nacelles! Gotcha!

But if you did this:
boom/fuselage\boom
The turret would have a better field of fire above the horizon, I think. And, during the bomb run most interceptors would be above the local horizon

And the vertical stabiliser could be reduced if the horizontal stabiliser had a significant dihedral to replace some of the lost vertical surface.

stab/boom     Fuselage     boom\stab

If you see what I'm getting at?

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 17, 2020, 10:18:37 AM
Yup. :smiley:

You could also improve the field of fire by having all the stab's & winglets angled, thusly;
     
>o/O\o<

(fore/aft view)

However, unlike RW, where torpedo planes attack at deck height, which made it easier to defend themselves against fighters & cover their blind spots by yawing the tail from side to side, that's not really possible when attacking aerial warships because they're not floating in the water, so you have to defend below the horizon.

'Tis a conundrum! :-\
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on January 17, 2020, 11:18:43 AM
... To be honest I was going to show more WIP as I posted along the way but thought it might be a boring to most.

To tell the truth, I have absolutely no clue how you achieve the results that you do! However, seeing your in-progress shots allows me the delusion of such knowledgeability  ;)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 17, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
To tell the truth, I have absolutely no clue how you achieve the results that you do! However, seeing your in-progress shots allows me the delusion of such knowledgeability  ;)


Just about everything starts with basic primitive shapes: cube, sphere, cylinder. You have basic tools for cutting, bevelling and shaping that can be used with modifiers to help with more complex operations to give complicated surfaces.

I have no images of the very beginning of any model but I have a few early ones that are just coming out of the block out stage:

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Block%20outs.jpg)

I mentioned UV mapping previously and below you can see a map with its texture along with how things can go wrong with distortion.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/UV%20map.jpg)

The distortion is hi lighted in the above by the wavy bump mapped panel.

Bump maps and displacement maps help reduce modelling all panelling and rivet details and stuff although I do chop my models up a great deal more nowadays as it helps the modelling process.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/bump%20map.jpg)

A bump map is a software/render trick and does not really effect the mesh. Its a black and white image where white is zero and black is the depth or indent determined by how much you dial into the app. The above is set at about 2mm depth if I remember correctly. You can reverse the map so that the detail is raised and the maps can be mixed as I did on the Hound to represent panels and raised rivets.

I hope this is ok posting this here.


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 17, 2020, 10:28:42 PM
However, unlike RW, where torpedo planes attack at deck height, which made it easier to defend themselves against fighters & cover their blind spots by yawing the tail from side to side, that's not really possible when attacking aerial warships because they're not floating in the water, so you have to defend below the horizon.
Yeah, that earlier discussion on how one might employ a torpedo-like weapon in this universe puts it out there. With the raised fuselage and lower tail structure, coupled with the aft turret and the ventral tunnel position (like the Avenger actually had) you do get quite good coverage to the sides and most of the aft cone. You really can't cover the sides below the aircraft centreline, though and, realistically, with a single-engined type it's not going to be possible to provide full coverage.

To provide all-round defensive coverage you need a multi-engined and much larger type, like a Betty or He-111, to allow for the extra gun positions. These aircraft are also large enough that you could expect them to carry two torpedoes, thus being individually more effective than the single-engined type. The problem, just like the RW, is the inability to operate them off carriers. So a smaller payload and smaller defensive capabilities are a result of not being able to manage multi-engined types on carriers.

Or, at least that's how my reasoning goes at the moment...

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 17, 2020, 11:15:06 PM
The problem, just like the RW, is the inability to operate them off carriers. So a smaller payload and smaller defensive capabilities are a result of not being able to manage multi-engined types on carriers.

Or, at least that's how my reasoning goes at the moment...

Paul

You are applying real world carrier problems to my alt universe.
EMFEM amplification especially towards the later part of the war would overcome much of your weight problems.
By default STOL is standard as you only need enough forward speed for the surface controls to bite.
I imagine that a multi engined layout is desirable at sea and with that in mind  - what about the Tigercat ?
A machine like that would have a smaller footprint owing to not requiring the wingspan of the  Tcat.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: tankmodeler on January 18, 2020, 12:39:19 AM
You are applying real world carrier problems to my alt universe.
EMFEM amplification especially towards the later part of the war would overcome much of your weight problems.
By default STOL is standard as you only need enough forward speed for the surface controls to bite.
I imagine that a multi engined layout is desirable at sea and with that in mind  - what about the Tigercat ?
A machine like that would have a smaller footprint owing to not requiring the wingspan of the  Tcat plus that is one horny looking bird :)
Yes, fair enough. STOL it is. In which case large carriers are probably not a thing. If you don't need the large runway to take off on or land on, you don't need a large ship. Smaller carriers along the lines of the Light Fleet carriers (but not slow like the Escort Carriers) but a lot more of them to make up the numbers needed in a strike package.

So, if you are looking at a medium bomber/twin-engined design as a notional torpedo strike craft, but keeping it smaller than an land based medium bomber for better carrier stowage and with a smaller range requirements than a land-based medium, but still with enhanced self protection as a light/medium bomber, then if you look at an Avenger-sized, tubby fuselage (to hold 2 torpedoes) with a nose and tail turret and maybe a remotely operated Bendix turret in the belly, twin engines, twin lift coils, twin booms with the surfaces Wombat was discussing.

Later in the war you could go with an even smaller fuselage, like the A-26 Invader, with more powerful engines, a similar pair of remote upper and lower turrets and maybe a "hard" nose with a couple of 37mm autocanon or a 75mm for light ship busting. Torpedoes could be in semi-recessed mountings under the wing roots.

Paul
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 18, 2020, 01:16:00 AM
with the surfaces Wombat was discussing.


Of course I read it as ... and surface wombats   ;D
Perhaps they could cling to the wings clutching ping pong bats acting as air brakes.

There is plenty here to make the cogs go round and I like the later war idea with the ship busting cannon too ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 18, 2020, 03:26:45 AM
Excellent post!

 :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: ysi_maniac on January 18, 2020, 04:58:42 AM
I understand nothing about graphic design. But these designs are just wonderful :smiley: :icon_alabanza:.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 19, 2020, 01:42:44 AM
That latest one would look good with ZG.6 Wespe markings.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 19, 2020, 02:31:05 AM
That latest one would look good with ZG.6 Wespe markings.

Do you meant the 219 above ?
(I only called it a 219 as its what you get when you add 109 and 110 together)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 19, 2020, 02:35:10 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 19, 2020, 02:47:48 AM
Yes.

You're right it would :)
That would be a nice alternative when I get fed of modelling which I do usually around the middle of a project... like round about any time soon as anything I try to do over the last couple of days has just turned to crap.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on January 21, 2020, 10:34:13 AM
Just about everything starts with basic primitive shapes ...

Fantastic stuff and wonderful to have a peak at the earliest stages. Thanks!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on February 08, 2020, 02:21:19 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/From%20Camel%20to%20Viper.jpg)

The problem with past depictions of the future is that sometimes the future looks less impressive than the imagined one. The actual developed technology is something different again of course but I’m not talking smart tech here I’m talking about aesthetics and the all-important cool factor.

Show a 60’s kid a picture of an F35 and then a Spectrum Angel Interceptor and you can guess which image will stay with the kid long into his adult life. Mind you if you could have imagined an F35 and why it has that stealth thing shape in 1968 then perhaps the future may have been different although perhaps still not looked so good.

Of course there was a slight downer to the Angel Interceptor… they were piloted by girls!!!
This could be a stumbling block to a pre hormonal kid although there was always something about Destiny and there still is actually or is that just me?

Captain Scarlet ran from 1967 to 1968 and as was usual in this universe the series took place 100 years in the future and so I have played on that in this image. There is supposed to be a World Air force by then so I’m not sure if the RAF will exist as it does now or be perhaps it is a branch of the WAF. I don’t know but the story goes that the WAF first took the Viper on charge in 2065 and I have gone with that and with the  FRG2 variant being introduced in 2068 which coincides nicely with the anniversary of the birth of the RAF – from Camel to Viper in 150 years.
 
The inspiration for this came from seeing Claves AI in RAF trim so its his idea not mine.
https://www.deviantart.com/claveworks/art/Fantasy-219-Angel-11-Sqn-RAF-189782503 (https://www.deviantart.com/claveworks/art/Fantasy-219-Angel-11-Sqn-RAF-189782503)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on February 08, 2020, 06:11:21 AM
Excellent concept! And, you're right, it does still look like 'The Future'  :smiley:

... although there was always something about Destiny and there still is actually or is that just me?

Pretty sure that's just you  ;)  Now 'Harpy' is another matter ... no matter how dangerous  :o

https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/Harpy-474174798 (https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/Harpy-474174798)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on February 08, 2020, 07:21:37 AM

Pretty sure that's just you  ;)  Now 'Harpy' is another matter ... no matter how dangerous  :o

https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/Harpy-474174798 (https://www.deviantart.com/small-brown-dog/art/Harpy-474174798)

Oh hell thats awful - I have to do that one again!

... which could be fun :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 26, 2020, 12:38:10 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Rare%20breed.jpg)

Shuttleworths immaculate Hawker Bloodhound caught at Duxford back in 2017 not long after her first post restoration flight. K1961 is the only complete airframe anywhere in the world at this time and had spent 21 years undergoing a painstaking and often frustrating renovation. Initially she was to be a static exhibit but a cache of period Napier Blade power units was discovered in Ireland not long after the start of the restoration and the decision was taken to restore her to airworthiness.  Another unique find was a complete set of period army cooperation equipment containers of which K1961 is displayed with.

The Blood Hound was a twin seat army cooperation and liaison development of the Hawker Hound fighter which first flew in 1934. Prior to the Bloodhound a naval version of the Hound, the Seadog, had been developed along with a specification for twin seat fleet spotter. The Fleet spotter never went into production as an alternative design from Fairy Aviation was chosen. However, the two seat configuration was deemed ideal for an air ministry specification calling for army cooperation aircraft.

Demand for the Tesla-Royce Kestrel Electric engine was high for both the Hound and its naval version and there was of course a performance drop off owing to the extra weight of the second crewman and Army Cooperation equipment.  To counter both supply and performance issues alternative power plants were trialled firstly from Bristol and secondly by Napier of which the Blade proved to be an ideal power plant for the Blood Hound.

The Napier Blade “H” block was the first Napier coupled thrust power unit designed specifically for Aero electric ELG units. This air cooled 24 cylinder power unit gave a useful additional 185HP over that of the Kestrel electric, offsetting some of the performance loss.

Shuttleworth also owns and operates the world’s only airworthy Hound MK1 and since 2017 both the Hound and Blood Hound are displayed together and have become something of a favourite amongst enthusiasts … how strange there are no photographs of them together … hmmmm.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on March 26, 2020, 01:07:57 AM
It looks as if a racer version wouldnt be out of place either.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on March 26, 2020, 04:18:23 AM
That is such a great render! The Hawker Bloodhound is just beautiful
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 26, 2020, 05:06:33 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on March 26, 2020, 06:59:40 AM
Beautiful with a plausible back story.  Are the upper braces round or of an airfoil cross-section for drag reduction?  I could see a single-seat version with a low-drag canopy as a racing aircraft.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on March 26, 2020, 07:07:15 AM
That looks like a photo of a real Blood Hound on first pass. :smiley:


Second pass & there are a few things that give it away but they're so minor it doesn't matter. Brilliant work! :icon_alabanza: 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on March 26, 2020, 07:47:22 AM
OOOH that is sweet.   Noticed opposite rotating props like P-38.   Spats are first class.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 26, 2020, 06:17:20 PM
I appreciate the positive feedback  - thanks.
However, the more I look at it the more I think I could have done a better render and photomanip  into the background - ah, well there is always next time :)

There is something I can't put down with the Hound family development so I might bore you with some others. I have a Later Hunting Hound idea which would be my universes take on the Hurricane 2D complete with anti tank cannon and maybe vokes filters.

It looks as if a racer version wouldnt be out of place either.


Perhaps the Hound MK1 with a few aerodynamic refinements and a nice paint job ?

Currently the cross bracing is round section and quite heavy - thats a whole lot of power unit slapped on the sides - got carried away ;)

A work in progress and a Hound MK1 comparison image  ...

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Blood%20Hound%20Wip6.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Hound%20family.jpg)


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on March 26, 2020, 11:59:06 PM
For higher speed versions, perhaps an aerodynamic fairing around the cross-bracing on each side?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Rat on March 27, 2020, 03:16:30 AM
Beauty!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 28, 2020, 09:41:15 AM
Oh, that is lovely! Especially like the Demon-style rear cockpit cut-out and those trousered undercarriage legs  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 29, 2020, 06:24:37 PM
Oh, that is lovely! Especially like the Demon-style rear cockpit cut-out and those trousered undercarriage legs  :smiley:

Yes, almost 100% Demon is that rear cockpit - I have a couple of wonderful reference pix:)
My main reason for doing it though was the Napier Dagger's or Blades in this case. I love big piston aero engines and  Napier never fail to excite.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 30, 2020, 02:06:05 AM
I'm a big Dagger fan too (well, their appearance anyway) so the Blades look just right to my eye  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: ChernayaAkula on March 30, 2020, 07:49:11 AM
So cool!  8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Story on April 11, 2020, 10:31:44 AM
Stumbled upon this
Inside the pages of this book are some of Roy's best artworks, shown here in full format and in superb detail, with many reproduced here in book form for the very first time.  As well as his vintage box art, Roy has included many sketches and alternative versions of his Airfix box art.

https://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Years-Airfix-Box-Art/dp/1847970761 (https://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Years-Airfix-Box-Art/dp/1847970761)

So hey, that could be legit...  ;)

Even his regular work could be pure 'what if' fuel.

https://www.airfix.com/media/gene-bluefoot/o/_/o_vintage_classics_fieseler_storch_roy_cross_on_the_airfix_workbench_blog.jpg (https://www.airfix.com/media/gene-bluefoot/o/_/o_vintage_classics_fieseler_storch_roy_cross_on_the_airfix_workbench_blog.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Geist on April 19, 2020, 09:45:26 PM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on April 26, 2020, 06:44:25 PM
The She-wolf of Murmansk

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AFV/The%20She-wolf%20of%20Murmansk.jpg)

Anya Kapranova saw the move to Murmansk in the spring of 1939 as her great escape. Her family had lived and died on the land they had worked for generations and her life would have been just another dull chapter in that story if she did nothing about it. There had been conflict and terrible scenes with her parents and siblings but it was obvious to all that  she was just like her Fathers brother who was another with a heart not linked to the land.

Her Uncle had run away to sea at a young age, got caught up in a war and a revolution and then tried the sea again only getting as far as Murmansk where he found work at the docks. He became one of the first to be trained on the Sokolov bulk lifters and over the years had risen to a position where he oversaw all bulk lifter operations.

There was a bond between Anya and her Uncle and they wrote to each other often and met whenever he could get away to visit his brother and his family. When Anya was age 18 he wrote to his brother offering Anya board and lodging with himself and his wife and a clerical job at the docks.

Anya had been a swift learner at school with an understanding of numbers and letters that came easily to her. Much family debate and tears followed but it was obvious Anya would not be happy in her current life and so in the spring of 1939 she began her new life in Murmansk.

She settled in quickly throwing herself into her the work and her new life.  She was a popular and attractive young woman and in the summer of 1940 she met a young man with whom she fell in love with. Danil was two years older than Anya and worked for her Uncle on the Sokolov Bulk lifters. He would take her for rides on the great machine and even taught her to operate it at which she became extremely adept.

They planned to marry and that would really have been the happy ever after ending to the story had it not been for the events of Sunday June 22nd 1941. Germany smashed its way into Russia and the struggle to save the motherland began. By October conscription had begun and over the next 12 months more and more men were leaving to join the military services, Danil included.

Women began to take over more of the work the menfolk had previously done and by early 1943 Anya was a working her bulk lifter when the news came that Danil was dead. She was in the early stages of pregnancy at the time and seemingly took the news quite calmly. She threw herself into more and more work and longer and longer hours until her exhaustion and pent up grief consumed her.

She lost the baby and sunk into a deep depression that no one could penetrate and so this went on for some time until once again her Uncle intervened in her life.  He had been “volunteered” into a non-combat training role on the military version of the dockside bulk lifter, the Sokolov Volkosob. 

He needed an aid and Anya would be perfect for the role in which she became something of a star to pupils and teachers alike. However, death came into her life again when her Uncle was given command of the first Volkosob unit to enter combat.  Her uncle didn’t even make it to the front as the transport he was traveling to his unit in was destroyed by an air attack.

With so many men at the front it fell to the women of Russia to man the factories and keep the supply lines open any many women became Solkolov bulk lifter operators. When the Volkosob began to make a difference many women with operative experience were drafted into the army.

Anya applied as soon as she was able and she along with her sister operators would become legendary by the wars end but non so much as  Anya who would be known as the She-wolf of Murmansk.

Russia had always been at a disadvantage even with the great bipedal AFV’s they deployed in large numbers but even so the Wehrmacht continued to dominate the battlefield until the introduction of the Sokolov Volkosob. It was fast, manoeuvrable and a relatively small target with a fearsome armament ridden in the main by women thought by some of the enemy to be something beyond human with seemingly supernatural powers.

The Sokolov Volkosob helped turn the tide of war in favour of Russia, fighting all the way to Berlin where Anya Kapranova ended her days. She was the most highly decorated of all the Volkosob operatives or “Wolf Riders” as they became known. She had the highest kill rate and was said to have no fear and so perhaps that is why on 10th May 1945 she wandered out of camp and was last seen in an area designated as a danger zone.
There were a great many unmarked mine fields at that time.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 27, 2020, 02:40:03 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on April 27, 2020, 06:54:39 AM
I think I know how I missed this the first time, but wow... so glad I have seen it now.
Great use of bits and pieces of period weapons and aircraft.

Certainly is inspiring, both the Soviet and the German version.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on April 27, 2020, 08:27:53 AM
Good stuff and a great backstory  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on April 28, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Thanks for the positive feed back .
Its about time I came up with something new really but I'm going through a block at the moment. Got some stuff started but I'm not feeling "it" with any at the moment.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 31, 2020, 12:08:07 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Fuerball%20XL5%202020.jpg)

I loved this from the moment I saw it and so I just had to dress up my old Fireball 3D model.
I make no false claims here, a Luftwaffe Fireball XL5 is ws-clave’s idea.
Clave aircraft standard and "what if" profiles are superbly crafted and well worth checking out.

I got a bit carried away and slapped some Henschel Hs 293 under it so re entry could be a bit hairy ;)

A friendly version ...

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/AS_Fireball%20XL5-2020.jpg)

The first episode of Fireball XL5 was screened in October 1962 totalling 39 episodes all in black and white. This was the 5th of Gerry Anderson's productions and the third to use his Supermarionation technique. I only just remember it as I was pretty young so Stingray but especialy Thunderbirds were my main childhood Gerry Anderson inspiration. Mind you, there is something about the Fireball class ships they used in Fireball XL5.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on July 31, 2020, 01:19:34 AM
Beautiful, both versions!!  Scary thing is, I *still* remember bits of that show's theme song.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 31, 2020, 02:29:48 AM
Clave's original:

(http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/fantasy_4/F349_Fireball_XL5_ZG1.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on July 31, 2020, 03:29:37 AM
Nice but... why NAZIfy an awesome ship/series? Maybe put a Confederate flag somewhere to make it extra offensive.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 31, 2020, 10:00:07 PM
Nice but... why NAZIfy an awesome ship/series? Maybe put a Confederate flag somewhere to make it extra offensive.

I obviously can't speak for Clave but I would imagine that like myself he did not intend to glorify Nazism. I imagine he though a touch of dieselpunk to be harmless, dare I say even a bit of fun.

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 02, 2020, 02:08:53 AM
Guys, chill out.  It's just an image inspired by an earlier one.  No harm was intended
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on August 02, 2020, 05:18:44 AM
Take the XL5, add wheels and tires sticking out from the bottom of the rear 'sponsons', remove the two bottom fins
from the front and add a pair of wheels under the nose, change the scale so it's a smaller in relation to a person and
presto-chango an LSR vehicle.
 ;D  :icon_fsm:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 13, 2020, 05:43:41 PM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Scammell%20ELG.jpg)

Scammell began to experiment with so called load lightening technology towards the end of WW1 as did a great many companies involved in the handling of large and heavy loads and goods.

Initially the Electro Magnetic Field Effect on Mass (EMFEM) was purely a means of weight compensation but throughout the 1920’s the availability of greater output from diesel generators allowed for power conditioning in the form of reaction field technology.

By the 1930’s electrical weight compensation and reaction drive units had secured a future in transport both private and commercial although in the private sector it was still only those with the necessary funds that could adopt it.

During this period a great many specialist drive manufactures licenced the technology and developed it further. One such company was The Commercial Lift Generation Company Ltd, based in Hounslow, Middlesex. CLG produced a great many of the early EMFEM units used in industry and were one of the first, working on behalf of Scammell, to produce a single unit to produce both weight compensation and reaction field drive in a single housing.

The heyday of the heavy haulage unit was the 1950’s and 60’s with Scammell introducing perhaps one of the finest of all the haulage tractor units in the form of the Atlas Air glide series which ran from 1955 to 1968 with many examples still running by the end of that century.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/SCAMMELL%201.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/SCAMMELL%203.jpg)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 13, 2020, 08:13:41 PM
Very cool! ;D 8)


(Especially the company name. ;))
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 14, 2020, 02:05:50 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on September 14, 2020, 10:28:07 AM
Oh, that is lovely  :-*

Sorry, couldn't resist ... http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg176700#msg176700 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg176700#msg176700)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 14, 2020, 04:35:52 PM
Oh, that is lovely  :-*

Sorry, couldn't resist ... [url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg176700#msg176700[/url] ([url]http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg176700#msg176700[/url])


Nice one :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on September 14, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
Like this a lot
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Steve Blazo on September 14, 2020, 08:05:22 PM
When does the kit come out ??  That is really good looking and great vision.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 17, 2020, 03:30:42 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TR%20Railton/AS_TR%20RAILTON2020.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TR%20Railton/AS_Railton_Done%201920-2020.jpg)

I did write a back story for this but I'll be damned if I can find it now so I must have had one of those oops moments when it came to saving. Anyway, Anyone who has seen pictures or actually seen the Napier Railton racing car at the Brooklands museum in the UK, can’t have failed to have a slight twitch in the loins if you are in to that sort of 1930’s goodness that is. All that polished aluminium with a Napier aero engine on four wheels is bordering on the erotic in my opinion.

So, having got that alternative tech history vibe going on and having spoiled a Scammell tractor unit and Aerial Motorcycle I thought there is no reason why the Railton should get away with it either. The original Napier Railton hit 143mph on the Brooklands track in 1935 so my alternative should do that and perhaps some more.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TR%20Railton/side.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TR%20Railton/top.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on September 17, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
I sooooo love that..
Remarkable work
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 17, 2020, 05:31:48 PM
Sweet! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on September 18, 2020, 02:26:30 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on September 18, 2020, 03:48:24 AM
 :smiley: :smiley:

It has a Last Exile vibe.

Speaking of Railton, I so want this two-volume work, but alas it's very unlikely.
https://www.evropublishing.com/products/reid-railton-man-of-speed (https://www.evropublishing.com/products/reid-railton-man-of-speed)

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0378/4617/products/RailtonCover_0c3e9394-9948-4cc6-b05e-f6babfbbd018_1000x.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on September 18, 2020, 08:01:18 AM
Hmmmm  ???

(http://www.modelblokez.org.au/bthpix/whatif/Misc/Car_1.JPG)

Currently on the floor of the Hobby Room after the Attic space clean out, along with some other stuff in the "should I stay or should I go" pile.

Just maybe ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on September 18, 2020, 05:25:49 PM
BT, it may not be a Railton but you know you gotta! ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 18, 2020, 10:17:40 PM
I sooooo love that..
Remarkable work


Sweet! 8)


Thanks gents appreciate that.

:smiley: :smiley:

It has a Last Exile vibe.

Speaking of Railton, I so want this two-volume work, but alas it's very unlikely.
[url]https://www.evropublishing.com/products/reid-railton-man-of-speed[/url] ([url]https://www.evropublishing.com/products/reid-railton-man-of-speed[/url])

([url]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0378/4617/products/RailtonCover_0c3e9394-9948-4cc6-b05e-f6babfbbd018_1000x.jpg[/url])


Seen part 2 for £150.00 - phew!

Hmmmm  ???

([url]http://www.modelblokez.org.au/bthpix/whatif/Misc/Car_1.JPG[/url])

Currently on the floor of the Hobby Room after the Attic space clean out, along with some other stuff in the "should I stay or should I go" pile.

Just maybe ;)


Go for it ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on September 19, 2020, 12:16:18 PM
Whoa! You are on a roll. Love that chrome finish  :-*

Of course, we mustn't forget the other (albeit, less dramatic) Reid Railton design from that period - the Riley TT Sprite (the 'Tourist Trophy' race version of Riley Motors first Electro Magnetic Field Effect tourer)  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 27, 2020, 05:44:24 PM
Whoa! You are on a roll. Love that chrome finish  :-*

Thats the problem  - its meant to be polished aluminium as per the real Raialton but I have a real hard time creating that texture accurately. Dull aluminium  - no probs, polished aluminium always comes out  chrome look sigh :(

Never mind, there is always next time. Love the Riley by the way ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on September 28, 2020, 10:52:55 AM
... polished aluminium always comes out  chrome look sigh :(

Because it is always the most fun to makes suggestions on topics one knows absolutely nothing about, might reducing brightness and contrast help get that ellusive polished aluminum look.

I've knocked together a crude example of what I mean - the retouched starboard side of your image. (Although looking at it now, I'm thinking maybe it needs lightening up as well?)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 28, 2020, 04:37:03 PM
... polished aluminium always comes out  chrome look sigh :(

Because it is always the most fun to makes suggestions on topics one knows absolutely nothing about, might reducing brightness and contrast help get that ellusive polished aluminum look.

I've knocked together a crude example of what I mean - the retouched starboard side of your image. (Although looking at it now, I'm thinking maybe it needs lightening up as well?)

Colour control comes in right at the beginning where, for aluminium,  an almost white is used for base. Then after light and darkness is controlled with specular control, surface roughness and environmental reflection. Reflective surfaces are mainly dictated by environment depending upon surface roughness - grain, deep scratches and dinks. This is not approached in the same way as I described texturing back in the JU885z (Hedge Hopper) thread although secularity is important there too and also has additional procedural noise and crap layers on top of the diffuse layer.

There is no colour map on the TR Railton but there are a handful of procedural textures to break up the surface and emulate dinks in places etc. To lose some of the brightness I would begin here. You can spend ages on slowly backing off or piling on to the point where strangling yourself with the keyboard chord becomes very attractive :)

Another factor was the background I used for reflection and ambient light was nothing like what I eventually used to comp the whole thing. A little bit more forward thinking on that are might have helped but I was not going to start building hi res or HDR backgrounds for this.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 01, 2020, 01:20:43 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Shield%20Maidens_DA.jpg)

The success of the allied campaign to break the Luftwaffe in February 1944 gave some relief to the long suffering bomber aircrews of both the RAF and USAAF.  However the relief was to be short lived and especially for the RAF who found the cover of darkness to be more of an advantage to the enemy than themselves.

As early as late October the previous year there had been vague reports of concentrated Flak in areas previously designated as being light to moderate. The main concern was the length of these so called Flak corridors which, in the report of one RAF crew, “just seemed to go on forever right up to the target”.

German high command had issued a directive to bolster the anti-aircraft defences of the Reich in mid-1943 and poured resources into the development and manufacture of  Flugabwehrkanone.  It was at this time that  the inspirational, yet almost seemingly obvious once actioned, decision to mount anti-aircraft weapons on manoeuvrable aerial platforms lead to the development and deployment of hundreds of  Schwebewaffenträger ,  code named magic carpets and referred to as  “rolling thunder”  by the USAAF.
 
The Luftwaffe quickly integrated this new and potent mobile anti-aircraft weapon into the Reich defence system which were now able to monitor raids and vector both aircraft and Schwebewaffentrager  units from holding positions into the path of the oncoming stream.  Schwebewaffentrager operated at low level and were unable to keep pace with the stream but were available in sufficient numbers from the Rhine to Berlin to be called and repositioned as the raid progressed.
 
As soon as target prediction confidence grew more  Schwebewaffenträger were moved into an intercept  position upstream of the raid and began tracking forward. This is where the allusion of endless flack batteries engaging the stream came from. Bomber losses began to creep up and moral began to suffer.

The USAAF began sending whole groups of aircraft in addition to that of the Bombers and escorts solely to deal with the Schwebewaffenträger which was a dangerous job and not at all easy. It did however keep the German gun crews busy and so give some respite to the bomber crews.  At night it was almost impossible to engage the German Flak barges and so RAF bomber command losses began to rise.
 
The mainstay of Bomber Command by late 1943 was the Roy Chadwich designed Avro Winchester which was a development of the disappointing earlier Avro Salisbury. The Winchester  had  4 x coupled thrust units mounted in pusher configuration with 2 x additional power only units in sponsons  placed just behind the crew cabin.  These two additional power units were to augment EMFEM generation and allowed for the ever increasing loads the Winchester  was required to carry to targets deep within Germany.

During 1942 Chadwick had been present at the demonstration of the shielding capability of a downed FW390 Dolch at Farnborough and had been impressed.  The Dolch produced 50% of its lift from conventional aerofoil surfaces therefore freeing up a great deal of the energy production from its V24 power unit that would have otherwise been needed for lift/weight reduction.

Aero Electric applications had improved speed, range and load lifting especially in transport and bomber aircraft but required huge amounts of power. The USAAF had the 6 engined B229 which had limited shield capability but was found to be in a never ending charging cycle once in the combat zone where its shield defence was negligible.

Chadwich’s thoughts were along the lines of just completely forgoing electrical lift by using full aerofoil section wings  and maximise on load lightening via EMFEM and producing “bags full” of power for shielding.

To maximise the lifting area Chadwick filled in the section between the sponsons and the winglets giving a delta form to the lifting surfaces. To this were added 4 x Tesla-Royce Merlin Electric 850 non thrust power units in common nacelles that reached back to the 4x similar but coupled thrust units and housed the Tcoils, power conditioners and undercarriage.  Fuel and shield generators were stored within the ample wing area.

The Avro production team nicknamed the prototype the flying power station and management toyed with the idea of naming the aircraft the Battersea but the air ministry intervened as they often do and renamed the aircraft the Avro London.
Final structural changes to that of the Winchester was the removal of the dorsal turret and a slightly more robust undercarriage.

The bomb load remained the same as the Winchester  which was not inconsiderable but the surplus power generation capability of the London gave the RAF a bomber with full close skin ballistic shielding - “a war winning aircraft” as the propagandists news reels would state.

The truth is a little more down to earth of course. That’s not to say that the London was a failure of which it wasn’t by any means. It was however at the cutting edge of a brand new technology and there were often part shield failures and sometimes these failures would become total. 

It is not correct, as is sometimes stated, that the shield projection did not suffer from recharge lag. It did and more often than not an aircraft could be at best 85% shield capacity for most of its time in a “hot zone”.  In addition, absorbing the blast from a salvo delivered via  12.8 cm Flakzwilling 40/2 not only drained the shields but caused skin damage which in vital places could prove deadly.

The Germans referred to the Londons as Shield Maidens and despite the teething troubles and on-going problems they did reverse Bomber Commands losses to something more manageable. Its crews swore by it and its grounds crews swore at it but all in all the aircraft became a legend.

It is worth mentioning that in the future when more exotic power generation is available and shielding technology more mature, the deploying of shields is still known as “going to London”

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Avro%20London.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on November 01, 2020, 03:09:46 AM
That looks GOOD! :D 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on November 01, 2020, 03:36:49 AM
That looks GOOD! :D 8)

Sure does   8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on November 04, 2020, 08:42:46 AM
Wow! Your Avro London is an imposing beast of a bomber  :o  Love your Schild Jungfrau concept too  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 04, 2020, 05:43:30 PM
Thanks. I do have a habit of making bombers look like they have been taking steroids and hitting the gym :)
A guy on DA wondered why I went south instead of staying with the northern towns as he would have called it the Doncaster. I didn't even think about it and I have a northern heritage  - doh! It would have fitted a treat although crews would have abbreviated it "Donc" or even "Donkey" perhaps.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on November 04, 2020, 09:21:52 PM
As an ex-aircraft maintainer I can definitely state that, no matter what, it would have been a "Donk" (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Donk)! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on November 05, 2020, 05:32:44 AM
time until somebody starts to build this.. 3...... 2..... 1.....

Very slick design. I am sure there could be some reservations around fuel capacity, wing loading and lifting capacity.. but hey... it just looks so coooool !! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 05, 2020, 06:56:27 PM
The fuel  tankage for 8 x thirsty V12s was only one of those issues that I had to take out side and club to death otherwise common sense would have taken control. However. The wing loading situation would be overcome with the huge amounts of EMFEM but all in all this largely came about because I thought about making a 1940's Vulcan and the delta like wing looked so cool. I toned it down a bit in the end.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 07, 2021, 06:03:41 PM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Good%20luck%20Buddy.jpg)

Republic aviation’s P447 Thunderbird, or T bird as it was commonly referred to, had proven itself to be an effective short to medium range escort fighter. By mid-1944 this role had transferred to more “long legged” aircraft such as the North American’s P551 and the T-Bird’s natural effectiveness as a ground attack aircraft was pushed to the limit especially with the E 2-37 variant.
High level bomber escort duties had become of lesser importance by late ’44 as Luftwaffe aircraft became something of a rarity. However, this remained an extremely challenging time for bomber defence as Germany had turned up the heat by introducing an ever increasing number of Flugabwehrkanone .

These flak units were quick and easy to build and were based upon pre-war industrial prefabricated concrete aerial supply barges powered by uprated Krupps  Koppeltriebflugmotor.  They were almost impossible to bring down as the power units were located deep within the barge with only the thrust tunnels and Command Bridge being vulnerable although both required skill and determination to hit accurately.

The Tbird E 2-37 was powered by two of the same Tesla- Wright super cyclone duplex radials as used on the Boeing B229 Behemoth. The additional power output available for the super lift coils and shield capacitors was used for additional EMFEM to overcome the extra armour and 2 x 37mm cannons that the E 2-37 carried. Shield capability was considered to be impractical with just two power units as even the B229 with 6 such power units suffered from being in a constant recharging cycle in the combat zone.

Even though the Flugabwehrkanone were hard targets their load of 88mm or 128mm cannon, men and munitions were very susceptible to 37mm cannon shells. Once under attack the barge could not lob shells high into the bomber stream and once the attack was over the crews often found their equipment smashed.

The E 2-37 units were known as the “Barge busters” and respectfully as the “Mad Buggers” by the RAF. The 88mm and 128mm cannons could not of course be brought to bear in close combat but the barges bristled with heavy machine guns and 20mm AA and took quite a toll in the many actions that took place between autumn 1944 and the end of the war.

In once such action 2nd Lieutenant James (Kid) Young’s aircraft sustained several hits and although he tried to nurse the aircraft home while under the protection of his Wing mate, Lieutenant  Richard Taylor, he was forced to put down just behind enemy lines.

Taylor figured that with luck Young could meet up with the advancing allies in less than an hour but that was not to be. Young got out of his wrecked Tbird, signalled to his wing mate to show he was OK and then ran for the trees. Breaking out of the other side of the woods he stumbled up an embankment and rolled down the other side finding himself in a ditch with several surprised and frightened women and children.  Amongst them were 3 Resistance fighters one of which was all but dead.  There had been more Resistance but the Germans had lay in wait for them after a tip off that the locals were helping move certain “undesirables” that had been rescued from the forced marches to camps closer to Germany.

Young travelled with them back to the American lines and on learning that there were more displaced and helpless people out there he went back with the remaining resistance men no less than 3 times before being forced to return to his unit in England.

His story was retold in the 1958 film: Long walk home starring Robert Wagner, Dana Wynter and Richard Egan which was quite popular at time but you would be hard pressed to find it now.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P447%20CLAY2-2.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P447%20CLAY3.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/P447%20CLAY1.jpg)

I don't know why I slap up this stuff up in separate threads as it would have made sense to keep one continuous thing going - sorry about that.
Hope every body is safe and well.

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on March 07, 2021, 11:24:09 PM
Awesome job!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 08, 2021, 01:25:43 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on March 08, 2021, 01:29:32 AM
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: sotoolslinger on March 08, 2021, 02:59:47 AM
 :-*
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: elmayerle on March 08, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Love it!!  Both the vehicle and story show great creativity.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 10, 2021, 03:51:11 AM
Marvelous! And the P447 is just the sort of big-assed bruiser that Republic would have made  :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on March 10, 2021, 09:50:53 AM
  8)  :-*   Fine concept and background story.  Incorporating Tesla technology to engines opens new design options....
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 10, 2021, 06:44:53 PM
Thanks for the kind feed back, I appreciate it.

Marvelous! And the P447 is just the sort of big-assed bruiser that Republic would have made  :smiley: :smiley:
I should have used "big-assed bruiser" as the title - love it :)

  8)  :-*   Fine concept and background story.  Incorporating Tesla technology to engines opens new design options....
I stumbled upon Thomas Townsend Brown's experiment and discredited theory which sparked off an idea/story and it went from there. It seemed like a good idea to pour in some Tesla as well to liven it up and then other than this alternative tech keep the time line the same and see what happens.
 I think I posted the beginnings of a full background story somewhere on here.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 01, 2021, 02:11:39 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/steaming%20like%20a%20freight%20train%20.jpg)

The Fock-Wulf FW390 was given the name “Dolch” (Dagger) but was often referred to as the flying water pump owing to its complex cooling system. The 24 cylinder engine design consisted of 2 x 45 degree V DB 608 units on a single crankshaft which gave an immense power output and a huge initial problem to the FW design team in finding a way to keep the engine cool.

A large drag inducing radiator protruding from the airframe is not desirable for a performance aircraft and the Dolch required a very large surface area to be exposed to the slipstream. Kurk Tank and his team did an incredible job of burying the radiator low in the fuselage and cleverly directing the airflow into the intake opening. In addition, the coolant was pre cooled by running it through a return channel on the underside of the airframe. This complex cooling system was always going to be vulnerable in combat. However, the Dolch was conceived from the outset as a shielded fighter and incorporated close skin ballistic shielding.

To achieve this the FW390 develops over 50% of its lift from the aerofoil section fuselage skirt/wing assembly. The remaining lift is generated by field coil spool augmented by EMFEM weight reduction. With energy in abundance owing to having conventional lift assistance there remains ample power for shield generation. It should be remembered however that this is 1940’s technology and shield generation is in its infancy.

The Dolch could, with fully charged shield’s, absorb a typical 2 – 3 second burst from a contemporary fighter. After this the shield integrity fell off rapidly and required several minutes to fully charge - longer under battle conditions. In reality the shield capacitor was seldom at 100%, would discharge prematurely or fail to work at all.

Shields or no shields, the FW390 was a formidable fighter in the hands of an experienced pilot but in the closing weeks of the war experienced pilots were few and far between even if they could find the fuel to get airborne. The Allies ruled the skies and were looking for anything to shoot at and especially the Luftwaffe.

Owing to rapid promotion and far too many corners cut off training and familiarity flights, Oberleutnant Roland Fischer found himself transferred to what remained of a FW390 unit and strapped into a Dolch at 8000ft on the morning of March 21st 1945.

He was both exhilarated and frightened in equal amounts. The Dolch was a handful to say the least and seemingly had a will of its own which it would exercise at every opportunity. Fischer was too engrossed and too green to realise he was being stalked.

A pair of P551’s down low and looking trouble had spied him above them. Both pilots had hours of combat experience and each had fought the Dolch on more than one occasion and successfully.

The Dolch was the faster of the two aircraft but the P551 could climb like a lift with its expanded field lift generators. With the surprise advantage the tactic was to climb above the Dolch then dive to gain speed and zoom climb beneath it hopefully having got a good bead on the belly intake and delivering a long burst. Your wingman would be seconds behind you already allowing for any deviation in the FW’s path and ready to deliver the coup de grace.

The tactic worked perfectly. Fischers FW390 took most of the hits directly in the radiator and surrounding cooling equipment and began steaming like a freight train. 5 seconds later the second P551 came in delivering a long burst that killed Fischer instantaneously.

Fischer’s aircraft along with his remains were found some 25ft down in a farmer’s field during a wreck dig in the late 1990’s.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 01, 2021, 02:28:58 AM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/If%20only%20it%20was%20true.jpg)

Winner of the 1927 Venice Schneider trophy race, Supermarine S5 N220 resides at Duxford in the spring of 2017 sporting fresh paint and awaiting transportation to the Solent Sky Museum for the 90th anniversary Schneider race exhibition.

Of course this is all fanciful crap because other than a few bits and pieces there are no surviving airframes from the S5 family. Solent Sky does have a propeller from the original N220 and of course a complete example of a Supermarine S6A which is actually the 1929 race winner N248. With the 1931 race winner (S6B S1595) currently peeling paint in the science museum, 2021 could have been a perfect time to display all three together.

To be honest I guess we should be thankful that these two airframes exist at all considering the 90 and 90plus years of each.

Duxford hanger photograph taken circa 2018, much to the amusement of a couple of people wondering why some guy was taking pictures of empty spaces.

Hope this is OK here as it is sort of a what if.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 01, 2021, 02:44:49 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 01, 2021, 03:16:44 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 01, 2021, 09:18:03 AM
Lovely  :-*

Generally speaking, "fanciful crap" is to be preferred over what passes for reality these days  :P

On the S.5, there was the Leisure Sports replica. A nice compromise but it just wasn't the same thing as the real deal. As your title says: If only it was true ...
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 01, 2021, 09:29:03 AM
Great stuff ... and a ripping yarn  :smiley:

I'm reminded of a former neighbour who flew Fw 190s during the War. As a kid, I asked him about his experiences, expecting to hear tales of daring-do (preferably complete with hands-as-manoeuvring fighters and rat-tat-tat sound effects).

Instead, the neighbour said that he was scared witless most of the time. Whenever possible, he stooged around in clouds until it was time to go home. He still seemed amazed that he'd made it through. Poor Fischer did not ...
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 01, 2021, 06:04:19 PM


Generally speaking, "fanciful crap" is to be preferred over what passes for reality these days  :P



I'd drink to that.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 01, 2021, 06:06:44 PM
Great stuff ... and a ripping yarn  :smiley:

I'm reminded of a former neighbour who flew Fw 190s during the War. As a kid, I asked him about his experiences, expecting to hear tales of daring-do (preferably complete with hands-as-manoeuvring fighters and rat-tat-tat sound effects).

Instead, the neighbour said that he was scared witless most of the time. Whenever possible, he stooged around in clouds until it was time to go home. He still seemed amazed that he'd made it through. Poor Fischer did not ...

Appreciate that thanks.
That story of your neighbour fascinated me. I would imagine there are always many many personal battles in the minds of those that fight wars.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 01, 2021, 06:09:44 PM
(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Feeding%20the%20cookie%20monster.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Airtug2.jpg)

David Brown Engineering Ltd began Tractor manufacture as a joint venture with Harry Ferguson in the mid 1930’s. Ferguson had been experimenting with reaction field technology for agricultural equipment for a number of years producing several prototypes and a successful series of commercial units in conjunction with The Commercial Lift Generation Company Ltd, based in Hounslow, Middlesex.

By 1936 Ferguson was looking for a manufacturer to produce his tractor designs and so began his association with David Brown Engineering Ltd. However, various disagreements over design led to Ferguson eventually splitting with David Brown Ltd.

DB had been approached by the Air ministry in 1940 who were in need of an aircraft towing and general duties tractor for which DB produced the Airtug series of which they built a great many both during and after the war. There are still one or two units in service today in museums, private collections and in day to day use.

Many photographs of wartime bomber airfields show the ubiquitous Airtug pulling bomb trollies laden with ever increasing loads. By late 1942 DB had developed the Airbed bomb trolley which incorporated its own weight reduction and reaction field generator units.  The Airtug Tractor had become something of a mobile power station by this time and was able to hook up to and power several Airbed trolleys as well as supply temporary power for multi engined aircraft starting. 

Airbed trolleys had large accumulators which were able to supply several minutes of power once disconnected form the Tractor. This feature was a failsafe in case of supply failure but was mainly used for man handling the load into position. Once the load was off the Trolley the supply requirement fell to a lower level and so “off supply” time became longer.

The image above shows 617 Squadron Avro London D–Dog just prior to bombing up with a 12000lb super cookie prior to her participation in a raid on the Dortmund-Ems canal. Unfortunately “Doggie” as she was known by her crew, would be lost along with four other London’s on that raid which was unsuccessful in its aim to destroy an aqueduct. 

The Airtug MK3 has survived and is part of a privately owned collection and is currently in storage along with an original 1943 Type E Airbed trolley.

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on July 02, 2021, 01:15:23 AM
Nice to see you taking this one step further along and addressing the ground support element for your subjects :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 02, 2021, 01:55:04 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 02, 2021, 05:54:49 AM
Nice to see you taking this one step further along and addressing the ground support element for your subjects :smiley:

Indeed. This is great stuff ... and I love your title   ;D  Plus, you have caught that agricultural look to a tee!

I like your "mobile power station" aspect as well - tractors, bomb trolley trains, and start carts all in one. Kind of an ur-Tesla PowerWall with added-on portability! Nice  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Story on July 13, 2021, 03:15:41 AM
Goofing around in the spirit of "What If"

(https://i.imgur.com/dQGaGEG.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 13, 2021, 03:34:29 AM
Goofing around in the spirit of "What If"

Love it! Instead of crossing the Detroit and occupying Sandwich (Windsor) without a fight, Brig-Gen Hull encounters active opposition  :smiley:

Wackier still: What if William Hull had been a competent commander? Onwards to Sandwich!  ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Story on July 13, 2021, 05:12:35 AM
I'm sorry.
I'll stop.

(https://i.imgur.com/w5uxTkD.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on July 13, 2021, 06:52:33 AM
That would be a cool double kit! Sadly, Airfix doesn't have a kit of either aircraft.

Bell 205 shoots down an AN-2 (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/an-aerial-combat-first.html)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Story on July 13, 2021, 09:22:11 AM
That would be a cool double kit! Sadly, Airfix doesn't have a kit of either aircraft.

Neither was the thread starter

(https://rlv.zcache.com/foghorn_thats_a_joke_son_poster-r1b077724bac240dcbfee5646d94884ef_jbqw_8byvr_512.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Frank3k on July 13, 2021, 09:28:12 AM
That would be a cool double kit! Sadly, Airfix doesn't have a kit of either aircraft.

Neither was the thread starter

(https://rlv.zcache.com/foghorn_thats_a_joke_son_poster-r1b077724bac240dcbfee5646d94884ef_jbqw_8byvr_512.jpg)
[/quote]

Yeah but... both are real subjects and available as kits in 1/72 from others. The An-2 from Trumpeter and the Huey from Revell (amongst others)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Story on July 13, 2021, 09:54:23 AM
Considering AIRFIX's rebranding of others' kits, it's not beyond the realm of possibilities then.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: sharkman on September 17, 2021, 07:28:12 PM
That's cool!

What model did you use for the pic?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on September 18, 2021, 11:16:15 AM
That's cool!

What model did you use for the pic?
Small brown dog is pretty handy with 3D computer graphics.....

----------------
Wasn't somebody building a an S5 replica/lookalike, to be powered with a much lesser engine?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 26, 2021, 06:27:24 PM
That's cool!

What model did you use for the pic?

Its a 3D model I made some years ago and revamped a few months ago with extra geometry and then reskinned. I then take a render of the model and composit in Photoshop, in this case a photograph I took at Duxford.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 26, 2021, 06:29:52 PM
That's cool!

Wasn't somebody building a an S5 replica/lookalike, to be powered with a much lesser engine?

There was a flying scale replica a few years ago and there is a current project to build a full scale replica ongoing at this moment sadly without a Napier Lion.
https://www.supermarineseaplane.co.uk (https://www.supermarineseaplane.co.uk)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on September 26, 2021, 11:54:43 PM
Wasn't somebody building a an S5 replica/lookalike, to be powered with a much lesser engine?

There was a flying scale replica a few years ago and there is a current project to build a full scale replica ongoing at this moment sadly without a Napier Lion.
https://www.supermarineseaplane.co.uk (https://www.supermarineseaplane.co.uk)
That must be the one that I came across recently, when browsing my stash of magazines. Sounds like they can engineer and build it, if they can raise the funds.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on September 27, 2021, 04:01:10 AM
Lovely, now we need an S4.
 ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 28, 2021, 07:58:00 PM
Lovely, now we need an S4.
 ;)

I couldn't agree more and I will build one at some point.
The S4 fascinates me and must have been a revelation in 1925 with its clean unbraced monoplane design and that Lion neatly faired in up front.

... cold shower time ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 08, 2021, 03:58:13 PM
(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Dalek/Diesel%20Dalek%201600-2.jpg)

I saw a great Steampunk Dalek somewhere not long ago and thought it might be a grin to build a Dieselpunk version. I'm sort of taking for granted that the 1000 year war between the Kalad and Thal Races may have covered a period where the internal combustion engine was king so this would be early on in the conflict perhaps.

I wonder whether or not a Diesel Punk Dalek should be called Dieselek or maybe a Daleksel ... maybe I'm just over thinking this ...

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Dalek/clay%20three%20quater.jpg)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Dalek/clay%20rear.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on October 08, 2021, 10:18:25 PM
I like that! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 09, 2021, 02:27:29 AM
I wonder whether or not a Diesel Punk Dalek should be called Dieselek or maybe a Daleksel ... maybe I'm just over thinking this ...

How about calling it a DPD (Diesel Punk Dalek)?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 09, 2021, 02:38:06 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTq-JlMeh9ckAKWwWZDLmZhP2wByBzXmMjZaGqKAUztw4gGaCqi4vx_zptJ9_FzON-gmM4&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on October 09, 2021, 06:12:41 AM
Oh so excellent
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on October 09, 2021, 01:17:57 PM
Could this be made into a 3D file for printing? I bet it would be a hit!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 09, 2021, 05:42:39 PM
How about calling it a DPD (Diesel Punk Dalek)?

As a quick reference DPD is great ... it could also deliver parcels :)

Could this be made into a 3D file for printing? I bet it would be a hit!

It could be saved out as a compatible 3d print file but I think but it would need some tweaking. I don't build with scale and tight dimensions plus I bodge some areas simply because I'm only interested in producing an asset I can slap into photshop and murder.

... it might be fun though ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on October 10, 2021, 04:43:16 AM
Oh that is nice! And I love the idea of file-sharing with 3D printer people (for tweaking and further sharing). Nice  :smiley:

As a quick reference DPD is great ... it could also deliver parcels ...

Wouldn't that be a GPOD? I'm seeing it in all-over 'pillar box red' with gold trim, lettering, and royal cypher.

The lower weapon could be replaced with a spigot parcel-launcher. The upper with a loud hailer to issue mysteriously vague yet officious instructions/demands to GPO users. The grappling arm would be retained (dual purpose: (1) angrily thrusting clipboards at customers and (2) snatching subsidies from Whitehall   ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: robunos on October 10, 2021, 05:06:23 AM
Never mind that, what's it like with stairs ??   ;D


It's XLNT, BTW, Me Likey, mucho . . .



cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on October 10, 2021, 05:44:45 AM
Never mind that, what's it like with stairs ?? ...

Good point. It occurs to me that a parcel catapult could be mounted on the back. That way, the anti-dog MG could be retained.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 10, 2021, 05:39:30 PM


Wouldn't that be a GPOD? I'm seeing it in all-over 'pillar box red' with gold trim, lettering, and royal cypher.

The lower weapon could be replaced with a spigot parcel-launcher. The upper with a loud hailer to issue mysteriously vague yet officious instructions/demands to GPO users. The grappling arm would be retained (dual purpose: (1) angrily thrusting clipboards at customers and (2) snatching subsidies from Whitehall   ;)

love it :)

Never mind that, what's it like with stairs ?? ...

Good point. It occurs to me that a parcel catapult could be mounted on the back. That way, the anti-dog MG could be retained.

If I hear of an opening in the Skaro post office R&D department I will be sure to let you know. I think you could be just the humanoid they are looking for  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 10, 2021, 06:19:55 PM
(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Mech%20magic/Mechanical%20Magic.jpg)

The custom broom cult is almost as old as the craft itself and broom personalisation has always been actively encouraged among the younger hags of the coven. Today though, and much to the dismay of the old order, it’s all technomancy, short skirts and black eyeliner and since “the incident”  the movement has been getting further and further away from the more traditional besom based arts … it even has its own magazine!

(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Mech%20magic/backend.jpg)

(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Mech%20magic/2.jpg)

It all began of course at the 2017 All Hallows Eve custom broom show where the now infamous Miss Shock De Phuk (pronounced Deepuck), unveiled and posed with her Hex 1 Draco broom. It caused a sensation and even appeared as the centre spread of the October edition of street broom.

Shock had been on something of a mission as the previous year Phantasia Camshaft-prism, princess of the divine sprocket and mistress of the thing that nobody cares to remember, took first place at the All Hallows Eve custom broom show.  Phantasia’s tricked out double over head besom and mystery paint job just blew everyone away … except for Shock who was too busy having an envy melt down.

Shock was very good at envy. She had a jealousy PHD with associated honours in relentless discontent in others achievements and luck.  At the time she had been very proud of how she handled this episode. Her summoning of the green eyed monster was right on the mark but she may have gone a tad over the top with the Phytoplasma. Not one broom in 50 miles, including her own, got away without infection.

Anyway, this year things were going to be different. Screw besom based technology she was done with all that. Honestly, who really wants to zip about on a domestic cleaning implement?  They are notoriously unreliable, quirky and let’s face it; a girl just doesn’t need those splinters.

It was time to leave the past behind and get with the 21st century. After all, her phase inverted hunting dildo had gone down a storm with the coven. No, she was going to usher in a new era at the show this year and some of those witch’s were going to get burned!

Having  started her own company, Coven Customisations, Miss De Phuk regularly produces award winning designs the latest of which is her serpentine- turbojet based stick “Snakey” featured in this month’s  Full Moon Ryder magazine.

(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Mech%20magic/Snakey.jpg)

(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Mech%20magic/New%20Broom.jpg)





Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on October 10, 2021, 07:48:22 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 11, 2021, 02:58:12 AM
Different... :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on October 11, 2021, 03:14:36 AM
R2D2 would run like hell!!!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 11, 2021, 06:07:24 PM
R2D2 would run like hell!!!

Not a lot of people know that the great great great Grandfather of R2D2 went to Earth and joined the RAF in around 1939/40. This is the only photo of it...

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/R2D2%20WW2%20style.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on October 12, 2021, 03:27:44 AM
Not a lot of people know that the great great great Grandfather of R2D2 went to Earth and joined the RAF in around 1939/40. This is the only photo of it...

And, of course, the squeaky operation of that manual Armstrong Whitworth turret would ultimately evolve into R2D2's familiar form of communications.  Good on ya,  Gramps  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on October 12, 2021, 03:34:24 AM
Well, I like Snakey but, dang, that Hex 1 Draco broom is the bomb  :-*

Can't wait to see what Coven Customisations comes up with next!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on October 12, 2021, 06:32:30 AM
Great vision on these designs :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 12, 2021, 08:34:51 PM
Well, I like Snakey but, dang, that Hex 1 Draco broom is the bomb  :-*

Can't wait to see what Coven Customisations comes up with next!  :smiley:

The Hex 1 is my fave too.
There is a rumour that retro motive power is all the trend nowadays so maybe some Merlin powered sticks could be on the horizon ... or a big radial perhaps ...
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 12, 2021, 08:39:15 PM
Not a lot of people know that the great great great Grandfather of R2D2 went to Earth and joined the RAF in around 1939/40. This is the only photo of it...

And, of course, the squeaky operation of that manual Armstrong Whitworth turret would ultimately evolve into R2D2's familiar form of communications.  Good on ya,  Gramps  :smiley:

It occurred to me after I read your reply that the first Starwars film was released 44 years ago!
I was there at the cinema watching it ... where the hell did all that time go?
I'm feeling old and decrepit now :(
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on October 13, 2021, 02:06:15 AM
Oh great!  Now you made us all feel old!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 13, 2021, 05:12:52 PM
Oh great!  Now you made us all feel old!

Oh, I best not mention watching Thunderbirds first time round then   :o
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Robomog on October 13, 2021, 06:40:29 PM
I'll see your Thunderbirds, and raise you Supercar !    ;D ;D ;D

Mog
>^-.-^<

P.s. love the Universal Dalek
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Robomog on October 13, 2021, 06:47:17 PM
Wow witches have definitely changed since my day !

Totally bonkers and beautifully rendered  :-* :-* :-*

Mog
>^-.-^<
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 13, 2021, 10:15:33 PM
I feel somewhat deprived.  All we had was Clutch Cargo and Space Angel for audio-visual stimulation :(
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on October 15, 2021, 02:22:35 AM
I'll see your Thunderbirds, and raise you Supercar !    ;D ;D ;D

I didn't want to get into palaeontology in case it really upset anyone ;)

I feel somewhat deprived.  All we had was Clutch Cargo and Space Angel for audio-visual stimulation :(

Its all out there to see ... reconnect with your inner child and cruise the fabulously ridiculous. Besides, I'm done with the real 21st century, its been such a let down.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 02, 2022, 06:34:35 PM
(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB1/TB1%20land%201600.jpg)
(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB1/TB1%20Ballistic%201600.jpg)

I remember my old man telling my 7 year old self not to forget that a new series from the makers of Stingray starts on Saturday … that was 30th September 1965. It became one of those defining moments that you have when you’re young that goes with you through the rest of your life.

Seriously, that first episode must have captivated much of the UK population of kids … and a lot of adults, my old man included.  What was not to like? Stingray was great fun but Thunderbirds was way out there with cool machines, edge of the seat action and they blew the crap out of everything in a most satisfying way.

There was perfect chemistry with Thunderbirds from the choice of voice actors to Derek Meddings wonderful creations. In fact Gerry Anderson’s universe had a profound effect on me in my developing year’s right through to the hormone awakening Lt Gay Ellis in UFO but that’s going a bit off topic I guess ;)

Seeing TB1  in the hanger and its launch sequence,  the crazy “its never gonna make it” take off of TB2 on the ramp and so on sticks in the mind BUT there is always one image you take away more than any other.
 
For me it was the very first touchdown of TB1 at the airport in that first episode – Trapped in the sky.  Seeing TB1 sweep in low and touch down in a cloud of smoke grabbed me on that old settee from 1965 and never let me go.

Once TB1 arrives you just knew it was all going to be alright and there have been a few times in my adult life where a metaphorical TB1 was needed which duly turned up – Man, sometimes I’m a silly old git!

Interesting snippet:
Trapped in the sky was the only episode written by Gerry and Sylvia Anderson. (I suppose everyone knows this and I'm just late to the gig).

Anyway, this is my homage to Thunderbird 1 and happy New Year to all.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 02, 2022, 09:13:08 PM
Happy New Year, SBD! :smiley:


My favourite was, is & always will be Thunderbird 2. :-*


Bugger! Forgot! :-[ .... Excellent tribute to TB1, there! :smiley: :icon_alabanza:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 03, 2022, 01:25:53 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on January 03, 2022, 07:01:31 AM
That is a great TB1.

Nice work on that and great trip down memory lane with the Gerry Anderson stuff. I too vividly remember watching all those shows, albeit a bit later on Australian TV.
Supercar, Stingray, Fireball XL5, Space Patrol, Thunderbirds and especially Captain Scarlet, a firm favourite.

I wonder though, if they were to create Thunderbird 1 these days, would the designer have the wildly impractical Landing gear setup ?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Rat on January 03, 2022, 08:31:06 AM
Beautiful.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 03, 2022, 06:36:32 PM
Happy New Year, SBD! :smiley:


My favourite was, is & always will be Thunderbird 2. :-*


Bugger! Forgot! :-[ .... Excellent tribute to TB1, there! :smiley: :icon_alabanza:


TB2 is a very close (almost touching) second for me and I have plans for it too.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 03, 2022, 06:39:44 PM
That is a great TB1.

Nice work on that and great trip down memory lane with the Gerry Anderson stuff. I too vividly remember watching all those shows, albeit a bit later on Australian TV.
Supercar, Stingray, Fireball XL5, Space Patrol, Thunderbirds and especially Captain Scarlet, a firm favourite.

I wonder though, if they were to create Thunderbird 1 these days, would the designer have the wildly impractical Landing gear setup ?

They modified it later in the series from a similar setup with wheels to the pads in my image.
Without "Impractical" Impossible" "crazy" and so on it would not be Thunderbirds ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 03, 2022, 06:45:25 PM
:smiley:

Thanks :)

I have Dieselpunk Daleks and Retro blasters that I have done but not sure if they fit the bill here.

I was wondering if there was a way to lump all my posts into a single one. I doubt there is a way without involving code and SQL calls. I don't know why I ever started posting individuals in the first place.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 03, 2022, 07:07:55 PM

I have Dieselpunk Daleks and Retro blasters that I have done but not sure if they fit the bill here.


Of course they do! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 04, 2022, 01:46:49 AM
:smiley:

Thanks :)

I have Dieselpunk Daleks and Retro blasters that I have done but not sure if they fit the bill here.

I was wondering if there was a way to lump all my posts into a single one. I doubt there is a way without involving code and SQL calls. I don't know why I ever started posting individuals in the first place.

We can do that - just PM me the ones you would like merged.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on January 04, 2022, 03:05:59 AM
Done.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 04, 2022, 04:14:31 AM
Done.

Brilliant  - thank you :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 08, 2022, 06:36:20 PM
Thunderbird 1 Cockpit reimagined

(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB1/TB1%20Cockpit%20reimagined.jpg)

I imagine that tpeople will take my messing with the original layout as nothing short of a capital crime … perhaps it is. However, even diehard fans have to admit that those question mark control levers that Scot Tracy used for absolutely everything was a bit much.

Want to take off/land/hover/change to horizontal flight/launch remote surveillance thingies/fire steel spiky things into a mountain side to catch boulders and do just about everything else – just push them levers forward.

I suppose that’s a bit rich from someone that usually offers cars without wheels and planes without wings so I better shut up before I did a bigger hole for myself.

Incidentally, if this was the Gerry Anderson universe we were living in Jeff Tracy would be around 12-13 years old now and living on a farm in Kansas. What are the odds that there actually is a Jeff Tracy living on a farm in Kansas right now?

WIP:
(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB1/TB1%20seat4.jpg)
(https://www.tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB1/TB1%20WIP%20Clay%2012.jpg)


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Robomog on January 08, 2022, 07:22:12 PM
Came to the party late.............

Brilliant TB1 and the revisualised cockpit.

I to am one of those who saw Thunderbirds first time round and it stuck with me for the rest of my life and like Old Wombat TB2 was my favourite Thunderbird,


We are getting close  to Thunderbird  tech  now , I belive they are piloting  video watches in Japan,  but I see no sign of wireless teapots , give it time ;)

Happy new year, stay safe

Mog
>^-.-^<
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 08, 2022, 07:58:18 PM
Well, as the originals were designed to be interacted with by marionettes, I don't think Gerry would mind you making them more suitable for real people. ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on January 09, 2022, 05:12:38 AM
terrific renders.

The seat setup is wizard
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on January 09, 2022, 02:39:49 PM
I imagine that tpeople will take my messing with the original layout as nothing short of a capital crime … perhaps it is. However, even diehard fans have to admit that those question mark control levers that Scot Tracy used for absolutely everything was a bit much.

Want to take off/land/hover/change to horizontal flight/launch remote surveillance thingies/fire steel spiky things into a mountain side to catch boulders and do just about everything else – just push them levers forward.

Perhaps the seat was reading his intentions straight from the brain, and pushing the levers just confirmed it?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 09, 2022, 06:15:48 PM


Perhaps the seat was reading his intentions straight from the brain, and pushing the levers just confirmed it?

Like in the Firefox movie or similar - hell, why not. They talked to teapots in the series ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 09, 2022, 06:20:08 PM

We are getting close  to Thunderbird  tech  now , I believe they are piloting  video watches in Japan,  but I see no sign of wireless teapots , give it time ;)

Happy new year, stay safe

Mog
>^-.-^<

Tea making in the 21st Century requires login credentials and good signal strength :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 09, 2022, 07:04:23 PM
Here's a point: Why isn't it fly-by-wire? Small joystick control on the right chair arm & a bigger panel for switches on the left with angled panels at the front? ???

Almost looks Korean/Vietnam War vintage. ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Big Gimper on January 09, 2022, 08:36:52 PM
The Brains was a traditionalist when it came to cockpit designs.

Just look at his glasses.

(https://storage.googleapis.com/hippostcard/p/a2bb388bbf853044a5bc84f9ef48638e-800.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 09, 2022, 09:20:35 PM
Here's a point: Why isn't it fly-by-wire? Small joystick control on the right chair arm & a bigger panel for switches on the left with angled panels at the front? ???

Almost looks Korean/Vietnam War vintage. ;)

You are right of course, but a cold digital layout based on something like an F16 just took the joy right out out of it and I did do a little research and just thought ... nope.

I'm an analogue doggie :)

(Having said that I did put up LCD panesl for instruments and outside view ... I suffer so much from Cognitive dissonance it hurts)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 09, 2022, 09:21:42 PM
The Brains was a traditionalist when it came to cockpit designs.

Just look at his glasses.

(https://storage.googleapis.com/hippostcard/p/a2bb388bbf853044a5bc84f9ef48638e-800.jpg)

Yeah, Brains knows where I'm coming from. He designed the hover bike but prefers his vintage T140V Bonneville :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on January 11, 2022, 09:29:42 AM
Tea making in the 21st Century requires login credentials and good signal strength :)

'Brew-up by Bluetooth' - like it  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on January 14, 2022, 05:22:51 AM
Nice.  :smiley:

The X-15 had two side-sticks.
(http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/cockpit_right_large.jpg)
High-G flight control stick, mechanically linked to centre stick. This control stick system was tested on the NAA
F-107A 55120 while operated by the NACA.

(http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/cockpit_left_large.jpg)
Ballistic control system stick.

(http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/controls_medium.jpg)

A side-stick controller of some sort wouldn't be completely out of place with steam gauges.  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on January 14, 2022, 05:48:48 PM

...

A side-stick controller of some sort wouldn't be completely out of place with steam gauges.  ;)

Next time I go looking for refs I need to try harder  that would have had a big influence - nice one.

OK, at some point I'm having a go at TB2 and will do the flight deck which begs the question ... conventional yoke or what ?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on January 14, 2022, 10:42:21 PM

...

A side-stick controller of some sort wouldn't be completely out of place with steam gauges.  ;)

Next time I go looking for refs I need to try harder  that would have had a big influence - nice one.

OK, at some point I'm having a go at TB2 and will do the flight deck which begs the question ... conventional yoke or what ?

I would, but you have to remember the separate controls for the (4) vertical thrusters & (2) level flight engines. ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on February 16, 2022, 12:52:12 AM
Supermarine Southampton Mk1

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Southampton/Outward%20bound%201600.jpg)

I'll leave out the overview as you guys are so well  genned up on most aviation matters I would probably embarrass myself.
However, I'm a bit of a fanboy when it come to the Southampton. The MK 1 is a thing of beauty … that Hull!
It is almost organic in its lines, part fish and part bird. Go to the RAF Museum in Hendon, London and marvel at the persevered hull they have there. As a whole and in its construction it is a thing of beauty bordering on the erotic ... well that maybe that last part is just me ;)

Of course, it doesn’t stop there either as there are two magnificent Napier Lion 5 engines, another absolute aero flavoured favourite of mine. Its enough to keep the doggies tail wagging indefinitely!

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Southampton/Takeoff%201600%20sepia.jpg)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Southampton/FINAL%20beached4.jpg)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Southampton/WIP.jpg)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Southampton/Textured2.jpg)

Having a bit of a block on the alt universe/what ifs at the moment  :(
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 16, 2022, 01:16:52 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on February 16, 2022, 08:51:49 AM
... Having a bit of a block on the alt universe/what ifs at the moment  :(

Sorry for your block ... but it is much to our benefit. The Southampton Mk.I and its Lions are things of rare beauty  :smiley:

You have nailed the lustre of that red-cedar and mahogany Linton Hope hull. With those colours, you can see why someone was tempted to rescue the hull of N9899 after she was wrecked.

The fate of the original N9899 -- https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/243805

Alas, they made a pig's ear of the job on the houseboat conversion. I remember seeing a photo (in Air International?) of the roll-over during hull restoration . As soon as that gawd-awful raised cabin was removed, the Supermarine heritage shone out again  :D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on February 16, 2022, 06:18:55 PM
... Having a bit of a block on the alt universe/what ifs at the moment  :(

Sorry for your block ... but it is much to our benefit. The Southampton Mk.I and its Lions are things of rare beauty  :smiley:


Appreciate that  - thanks.
With regards to N9899, you would of thought the gods of  good taste would have struck down any workman evening threatening to go near the hull with any kind of tool in their hands!

The block also has a big dollop of  losing the faith so to speak as far as my alt universe/lifting tech is concerned ... I miss wings and frankly I am beginning to think some of my stuff looks bloody stupid without them. I think the development of the aeroplane my well have been different but I was caught up in wanting to stay pure to everything else.

... of course, my biggest problem is over thinking this crap :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on February 16, 2022, 08:29:18 PM
If you are missing wings, perhaps it is a good time to do something that has them.

I like many Luft46 designs, but sometimes I wonder what Luft19 would look like. Or how we could get a smaller Hawker Tempest, or a Spitfire with wide track landing gear. Or...
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on February 17, 2022, 01:59:45 AM
If you are missing wings, perhaps it is a good time to do something that has them.

I like many Luft46 designs, but sometimes I wonder what Luft19 would look like. Or how we could get a smaller Hawker Tempest, or a Spitfire with wide track landing gear. Or...

Or a good dose of the Golden Age between the wars
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on February 17, 2022, 03:14:27 AM
Or a good dose of the Golden Age between the wars

Although I've just gone off on a Captains Scarlet trajectory, I have to admit that period is fascinating and there are a number of oddities that I would like to have a go at along with doing justice to the HP42 which I was going to do before the Southampton. Anyone know of any good references for the HP42 ?

I need to kept in check or I go off on one like below...

Toxic Thomas
(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Thomas%201600.jpg)

Stories of Thomas the tank engine have been enjoyed by generations of children and many an image of busy little Thomas working his branch line are conjured upon hearing his name. Of course, Thomas is only one of several engines that work the preserved steam engine railway on the Isle of Sodor which lies just off of  Barrow-in Furness in the Irish sea.

Linked by bridge from mainland England, Sodor, is a popular tourist attraction not only for the railway but for its beautiful country side and old world appeal. However, it has not always been this way. In the late 60’s with steam being a reminder of the grey past and cheap package holidays abroad beginning to lure away holidaymakers in search of something different, the Government of Sodor found themselves in something of a financial slump. This was not helped by the seemingly endless industrial unrest taking place on the mainland and as time went by Sodor was on the point of financial collapse by the early 1970’s.

 All manner of meetings and talks took place many of which were reported in the daily newspapers but some, and in particular, one “special” meeting took place in secret. As is often the case, those in high places often have subterranean morals especially in times of dire financial need.

And so it came about that in a very secluded gentleman’s clubs where cigar smoke is thick and expensive spirits seem to be in a never ending supply, an influential yet low profile gentleman just happen to mention a potentially very lucrative deal to a vising official of Sodor.

It seemed that a certain party had some industrial waste materials that were ever so slightly hazardous and needed somewhere to store them for a short while. The Gentleman was quick to add that when he said “Hazardous” it was just a term used by the boffins and that the boffins like their drama and really there was nothing to worry about.
 
There was in actual fact much to worry about but the size of the suggested advance took all such concerns away. Some six months later the first of what would become monthly shipments crossed the Sodor bridge in the dead of night. This unmarked train from the mainland was taken as far as Knapford where Thomas was waiting to be coupled to the wagons and take them to their final destination.

Thomas’s branch line, as many of you will know, runs from Knapford to Ffarquhar in the North. However, the line does not stop there but continues for a further three miles or so before the track ends. The line used to be a link with the Mid Sodor Railway which served the many mines in the area but was closed in 1947.
 
A few weeks after the meeting in the London the old line was secretly reconnected to the mining lines and one of the old workings was reopened. The site was codenames Rabbit 1 and would become the hub of “the warren” which was made up of several other “rabbit” sites numbering no less than 13 by the late 1980’s

There were many old mining galleries beneath The Warren now filled to capacity with all manner of toxic wastes from around the world all packed in containers designed to lasts hundreds of years. However, not all safety containers are created equal and in some cases, especially where a saving or two can supplement the income of the dishonest, they are none existent.

This practice was at its worst in the early days as later into the present century global environmental policies are much more stringent. Some of those early containers were just a slow motion accident as year by year casings rotted and contents oozed and bubbled out hastening the deterioration of other casings and undermining the more hardy ones from later shipments.

The early waste shipments were placed in the southern most galleries under Rabbit 1, parts of which extended out and under the very rails of the service railway. In the autumn of 1997 there were especially heavy rains and a combination of soft wet earth above and corrosive waste eating away at the rock below meant that at some point all 52 tons of Thomas was going to cause a problem and it did on the night of the 31st October.

Thomas was pulling the month’s shipment to The Warren in driving rain and was not a happy little engine. Something was not quite right. The rails felt all wrong, he couldn’t see a thing and his train seemed to be unusually heavy this trip.

Moving slowly Thomas again had the feeling that something was wrong with the rails and all at once they seemed to be no longer there. The gallery roof had collapsed and down into a boiling cauldron of glowing green gunge Thomas, his driver and Fireman plunged. The whole train was pulled down with Thomas which on that night contained several radioactive horrors and bio hazardous nasties.

Of course none of this happened and the site was quickly sealed off and tons of concrete pumped into the old workings. Those that did know something were compensated handsomely for their amnesia.
 
It is best not to dwell too much on what happened to Thomas that night but it might be worth mentioning that on the night of the 31st October the following year there were many reports of a ghoulish ghost train on Thomas’s branch line and it has been the same every year since. There are even those that say there is a horrible grinning 6 wheeled monster that roams the Branch line and only the brave travel to Ffarquhar station on Halloween in case they should meet up with a ghostly toxic Thomas.

EEK! 

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Thomas%20Ghost%20train.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: The Big Gimper on February 17, 2022, 04:29:42 AM
LMFAO!

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7d/40/83/7d4083d69c5ea0f3432663d42a4f5722--confusion-the-picture.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on February 17, 2022, 07:54:37 AM
 ;D ;D ;D 8) :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on February 17, 2022, 09:12:36 AM
Awesome!!! :o ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on February 17, 2022, 10:09:35 AM
... I am beginning to think some of my stuff looks bloody stupid ...

... of course, my biggest problem is over thinking this crap ...

Oh wow! A record! Two potential new Beyond the Sprues mottos in one post  :smiley:

... kept in check or I go off on one like below ...

'Toxic Thomas' is fricking hilarious ... even if the storyline evokes one of those laugh-to-avoid-gibbering responses  :o
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Geist on March 01, 2022, 01:53:47 AM
Cool!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 15, 2022, 08:43:23 PM
Chopped tracked trike

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Chopped%20tracked%20trike.jpg)

Apophenia's thread on half tracks prompted me to dig out an old model I made 6 or 7 years ago that I want to re texture and/or modify.

Perhaps a big old gun mounted on the back could look good and a change of engine as I'm not sure about the generic motorcycle 4 pot. Slap on some olive drab maybe and ... well, I'm not totally sure so I'm up for suggestions.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on March 15, 2022, 10:36:31 PM
I like it how it is! 8)

Maybe pimp it up a bit; a pair of rooster-tail pipes at the back, track guards, big sissy bar, something like H-D Sundowner Fat Bob or Low Rider seat, twin headlights with either a bull or goat skull above them? ???

If you want to arm it; a rider's & pillion's rifle boots &/or a pair of forward firing FN MAG's (or local variant). :smiley:

 ;)



PS: Or you could modify it into a tracked sidecar, perhaps? :-\
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: ysi_maniac on March 16, 2022, 02:25:28 PM
Chopped tracked trike

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Chopped%20tracked%20trike.jpg)

Apophenia's thread on half tracks prompted me to dig out an old model I made 6 or 7 years ago that I want to re texture and/or modify.

Perhaps a big old gun mounted on the back could look good and a change of engine as I'm not sure about the generic motorcycle 4 pot. Slap on some olive drab maybe and ... well, I'm not totally sure so I'm up for suggestions.

Love this !!!!!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 19, 2022, 05:27:38 PM
I like it how it is! 8)

Maybe pimp it up a bit; a pair of rooster-tail pipes at the back, track guards, big sissy bar, something like H-D Sundowner Fat Bob or Low Rider seat, twin headlights with either a bull or goat skull above them? ???

If you want to arm it; a rider's & pillion's rifle boots &/or a pair of forward firing FN MAG's (or local variant). :smiley:

 ;)

PS: Or you could modify it into a tracked sidecar, perhaps? :-\

Well there is some food for thought there :)

Ages back and well be fore this I was building a big old gatlin gun type thing - perhaps I should slap that on it and see how it goes, if I still have it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 20, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Or twin sidecars?  ;D

This beauty just screams Post Apocalypse to me. Roads are pot-holed to hell? Turn that chopper into a half-track and leave those feral ATV drivers in your dust/muddy rooster-tail  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on March 20, 2022, 02:06:57 PM
If you put a gun on the back, who is going to fire it and in which direction?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on April 07, 2022, 05:44:23 PM
The SBD Industries  J2 Zapper

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Zapper/Zapper%202%201600.jpg)

A preserved early example of a hand held beam projection weapon as produced by SBD Industries UK, Earth. Amazingly these early BPW’s employed the use of a large vacuum tube to amplify the primary beam and initiate the plasma stream. The tube itself was manufactured from toughed glass and able to withstand substantial blows. However, the valve filaments were very susceptible to shock as they got very hot in use and over time became quite brittle.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Zapper/Zapper%201%201600.jpg)


The J2 unit, marketed as the Zapper, was a much improved version of the original J1 but still had issues with power surge and plasma burn through which meant It was classified as “field weapon only do not discharge in confined spaces” which could be a bit limiting when trying to clear your airlock of marauding space pirates or pesky reptilian vampires intent on snacking on you and your crew … or even worse in the mating season!

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Zapper/Raygun%20Clay%201600.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 08, 2022, 01:53:16 AM
 :smiley: ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on April 08, 2022, 06:26:58 AM
so 50's old school Schlock Sci Fi... I love it !
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on April 08, 2022, 08:43:42 AM
Right out of Flash Gordon!!!!
Perfect!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on April 08, 2022, 10:13:59 AM
Love it!  :-*

So, for those "pesky reptilian vampires", crews will have to fall back on the old 'fourteen-pound lump hammer'?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on April 08, 2022, 05:16:22 PM
Love it!  :-*

So, for those "pesky reptilian vampires", crews will have to fall back on the old 'fourteen-pound lump hammer'?

Yes, and they are easy to swing in zero G.
The best ones are those cadet issues ones with the hollow handles where you can hide your stash ... ah college days :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on April 09, 2022, 12:01:41 PM
The best ones are those cadet issues ones with the hollow handles where you can hide your stash ... ah college days :)

For sure. Purely for medicinal purposes, of course. Which after splattering a few vampire reptiles, may be highly desirable  :o
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on April 14, 2022, 04:56:36 AM
1912 Blackburn Monoplane Type D

My mojo is  still in the shop for repairs  - no idea if its coming out again so I am finishing stuff. 

I found an old Blackburn Aeroplane Company advertisement with a line drawing depicting their 1912 Type D monoplane. I though I would have a go at reproducing it and go for a colour version as well. Having made the bugger it seemed a bit of a waste of time slapping it into some grubby old monochrome mock advert.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Blackburn/Mock%201912%20Blackburn%20advertisements%20.jpg)

I imagine most of you know that this machine is still flying and can be seen on a regular basis on those calmer days when the Shuttleworth collection puts on a show – well worth going and that’s a reminder to myself as its been far too long  since I have been.

Imagine being transported back to 1912 when there is hardly anything on the roads let alone in the air and there you are cutting through the ether at a blistering 50 - 60MPH with a big grin on your face.  I mean come on; aircraft couldn’t get any faster … could they?

That’s a Gnome Omega 7 cylinder rotary engine up front and is a slightly more powerful version of the original being of 1916 vintage. However the original engine is still available but I guess every bit of horsepower helps when a great many birds, large and small, are faster than you.

I wouldn’t want to be in charge of checking all that rigging as I bet its as much of a pain as it was to work out from photos where it all goes and I still managed screwed it up. Its wrong and I really should sort it out but I won’t tell anyone if you don’t ;)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Blackburn/Blackburn%20Monoplane%20Type%20D-b.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on April 15, 2022, 01:25:25 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on April 15, 2022, 05:49:04 AM
very nicely done. Exquisite detail
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 01, 2022, 05:30:17 PM
very nicely done. Exquisite detail

Appreciate that  - thank you :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Gingie on May 06, 2022, 12:22:32 AM
I have to ask - is this your full time job? Your work is clearly professional quality.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 06, 2022, 06:12:57 PM
I have to ask - is this your full time job? Your work is clearly professional quality.

Thanks for that :)
The 3D is purely a hobby thing but I have been pushing pixels since the late 80's so I have had a bit practice ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Gingie on May 07, 2022, 01:37:43 AM
What would you say to someone who wants to get started in this type of illustration?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 07, 2022, 03:54:31 AM
What would you say to someone who wants to get started in this type of illustration?

Getting into 3D ?
Well, there are some that seem to fall into it, like the guy who picks up a guitar for the first time  and is ripping off Van Halen riffs and licks like a demon within weeks ... the guy you just want to throttle. However, most of us mortals  stand at the precipice looking down into a valley of frustration and bewilderment and make a mental note to hide all the sharp things before you have another go at it.

All joking aside it is a steep learning curve which can be made easier by the software package you go with. Like most software, you can trial for 30 days or so.  I settled on Modo as I found the interface and tools to be the most logical and a modelling hero of mine used it who also had tutorials and stuff that helped me initially.

There is an excellent free package called Blender but it was notorious for reducing hard men into sobbing schoolgirls  ... ok that was just me. Apparently it is easier to get to grips with now and if mastered is capable of great things. Some amazing artists use it. Tons and tons of tutorials and helpful forums for it as well. So if you wanted to dip a toe in the virtual water then this might be the way to go.

Those "getting started with..." videos are you friends as they quickly show you the common tools and shortcuts to them and simplify things by showing you on screen by using them for simple demos.

Once you have some idea of how to use the tools in your chosen package start modelling everything. Keep it simple and it doesn't matter if you don't finish any at first because you are learning with each session. Follow some simple beginner tutorials and then look for simple things to model like a Pill bottle or USB thumb drive and stuff like that and you will find as you gain experience that you can plan ahead how you will go about it and it will become easier each time. If you get stuck, hit the online tuts as you will find something to help. When you feel confident to have a go at a project that really turns you on, go for it. Again, you may not finish it for a variety of reasons but you will be further down the road. Believe me, 3D modellers have directories full of junk work in progress. Some you will go back to and make full in the future and you will see how far you have come.

Most of all have fun. It will be frustrating at times like I suppose anything that is quite involved is but it really is rewarding if the bug bites deep like it did me.

I have no idea if that answers your question or not but I'm happy to advise further if I can.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on May 07, 2022, 04:15:29 AM
The Blackburn advert is brilliant.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on May 07, 2022, 04:36:38 AM
The Blackburn advert is brilliant.  :smiley:

It is!  :smiley:

... I have no idea if that answers your question or not but I'm happy to advise further if I can.

That was an excellent answer SBD.

I'm wondering if we should have a dedicated 3D artwork advice thread? I thinking of something akin to the '3D Printing Tips and Techniques' thread in the Tips, Tools & Techniques section.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 07, 2022, 05:06:43 PM
Thanks for the positive feedback on the poster. I get a kick out of reproducing posters or making something like it of the period. This is a recreation of a well known 1940 poster:

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Wartime%20poster%20reproduction.jpg)

Its as much photo bashing as it is 3D like a lot of my stuff. I use 3D to create assets for images I have in mind most of the time.


That was an excellent answer SBD.

I'm wondering if we should have a dedicated 3D artwork advice thread? I thinking of something akin to the '3D Printing Tips and Techniques' thread in the Tips, Tools & Techniques section.

My first reaction to that is that the end goal of producing a 3D model can differ in creation a great deal from software package to software package. Explaining how to do something in 3D Max is different in Modo and different again in Blender.

There are different modelling methodologies too suited to different styles or subject. Hard surface modelling like I do is great in Modo and similar packages. Organic and sculpting can be done but is best in more dedicated software such as Zbrush. There are native render engines or third party renderers all with their own quirks and ways of doing stuff. When you are starting out it can be difficult to transpose, so to speak, a tutorial in one package to that of one you are learning.  3D modellers get a bit fanboy about their software and huddle together a lot scowling at non believers.

One thing that is global though is that it will change the way you look at the world.
I was a prolific model maker as a kid, Airfix, Frog, Revel... I made tons and those kits and they got me closer to the real thing and started my love of vintage tech and engineering.

3d took that further and beyond and I started to look at real world materials, painted, natural metal etc and how light reacts and falls on them and so on and so on. Once you start texturing you will never look at a rusty surface again without wondering how you would go about recreating it :)

I guess there are global aspects that could be discussed though and I could use all the help I can get as there are great gaping holes in my knowledge that you could drive a Scammel tank transporter through.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: signal on May 08, 2022, 03:00:06 AM
Not a lot of people know that the great great great Grandfather of R2D2 went to Earth and joined the RAF in around 1939/40. This is the only photo of it...

And, of course, the squeaky operation of that manual Armstrong Whitworth turret would ultimately evolve into R2D2's familiar form of communications.  Good on ya,  Gramps  :smiley:
That might be an Armstrong manufactured turret, but the aircraft in the photo
is an Avro Anson.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on May 08, 2022, 07:46:54 AM
Love 'Fiebomb Fritz' and point taken on all the varieties of 3D software.

That might be an Armstrong manufactured turret, but the aircraft in the photo
is an Avro Anson.

It is indeed - Anson Mk.I N4877 at IWM Duxford ... with AW38 turret fitted.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 08, 2022, 04:09:34 PM
That might be an Armstrong manufactured turret, but the aircraft in the photo
is an Avro Anson.

It is indeed and as Apophenia mentioned, she resides at Duxford where I have taken many a photo of her over the years.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Annie in the middle.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on May 09, 2022, 12:41:00 AM
Not a lot of people know that the great great great Grandfather of R2D2 went to Earth and joined the RAF in around 1939/40. This is the only photo of it...
But R2D2's great great great Grandfather also had a cousin who went to Earth.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on May 09, 2022, 04:24:41 AM
... she resides at Duxford where I have taken many a photo of her over the years.

With that shot given a particularly good sense of just how draughty the Armstrong-Whitworth turret would have been in flight!

Is that a Sunderland float at the top of your photo?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 09, 2022, 04:44:05 AM
Is that a Sunderland float at the top of your photo?

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Misc/Avro%20Dominance.jpg)

Yes it is and with a Lancaster hiding in the background, a Maggie trying to get away in the foreground whilst a Late Mosquito  lurks above the Lanc'. Meanwhile one of the early Concorde airframes is trying to take the limelight away from the TSR2.

For those not familiar with that Hanger at Duxford, there is also a Hastings, Vulcan, Comet, Canberra, Lightening, Wessex, Hunter, Swordfish, BE2, York, Oxford, Lysander Tornado, Spitfire and assorted engines and stuff ... thats a big hanger.

Then there are the original Belfast hangers with exhibits and on going restorations and the huge American air force museum beyond that. All on a preserved RAF base with a fantastic history including being the Home of 19 Squadron when they were the first to receive the Spitfire.

I love the place and try to get there a couple of times a year and have been for decades now.
I have tons of pix including what I call geek shots for modelling which I am happy to share.

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Gingie on May 12, 2022, 12:02:07 AM
SBD - thanks for the tips! I forget that Youtube is full of demos for everything!

I'm still not sure if I'm going to go the Fusion360 / 3D print, or, the more organic software you mentioned that is better suited for illustration.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 12, 2022, 04:52:12 PM
SBD - thanks for the tips! I forget that Youtube is full of demos for everything!

I'm still not sure if I'm going to go the Fusion360 / 3D print, or, the more organic software you mentioned that is better suited for illustration.

Use the 30 day trials where you can and just play about. One will feel more natural than the other and that is the clue to get in ;)
Most software will do a decent job of organic modelling but for those epic monsters, figures etc then ZBrush is king.

I wish you luck on journey ... have fun :)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 21, 2022, 04:59:25 AM
KING RAT

Well, in the absence of any kind of inspiration I went back to the trike.
Original Trike made around 2016ish, new tank, remodelled engine, rear end and generally made to look a bit more in proportion. Spent ages wondering what to slap on the back and in the end nothing seemed like a good idea other than some extra gas...or maybe its water or some kind of gut rotting grog ... or maybe something else ?!

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/kingrat/King%20Rat%201.jpg)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/kingrat/KIng%20Rat%202.jpg)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/kingrat/KIng%20Rat%203.jpg)

Not sure you could really call a "suicide shift" on a trike but it sounds cool if nothing else :)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/kingrat/Suicide%20shift.jpg)

Now then, did anybody see my inspirational mojo coz I left the door open and the bugger has got out and left me dry ... heavy sigh!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on May 21, 2022, 05:21:36 AM
For somebody with no mojo, that there is some awesome weathering  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on May 21, 2022, 05:26:02 AM
Out f**king outstanding.  :smiley: ;D

Hmm, I think I may have most of the bits necessary to do something similar.

 ???
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: raafif on May 21, 2022, 08:01:40 AM
I'd like  to see a large, good rendition of my Indian M'cycle idea (below). ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on May 21, 2022, 12:05:33 PM
Is it large enough to pull a 120 mm mortar?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Sisu_A2045_120_Krh_92_Kauppatori_1.JPG/800px-Sisu_A2045_120_Krh_92_Kauppatori_1.JPG?20120713194854)
Bigger pic at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sisu_A2045_120_Krh_92_Kauppatori_1.JPG
More pics: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:120_Krh_92

You'd need more vehicles for the crew and ammunition, though.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 21, 2022, 04:29:36 PM
For somebody with no mojo, that there is some awesome weathering  ;)

Once I have something to work on I'm in gear.  is just thinking up stuff to work on ... ah well, it happens (or doesn't in this case).
:)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 21, 2022, 04:30:35 PM
Out f**king outstanding.  :smiley: ;D

Hmm, I think I may have most of the bits necessary to do something similar.

 ???

Thanks :)
Now when you say you have the bits to build this does this mean for real  :o
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 21, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
I'd like  to see a large, good rendition of my Indian M'cycle idea (below). ;D

Nice one :)
Actually, I have been seeing more and More Indians on the road lately ... Motorcycles I mean not red skinned dudes trying to take may scalp.

Is it large enough to pull a 120 mm mortar?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Sisu_A2045_120_Krh_92_Kauppatori_1.JPG/800px-Sisu_A2045_120_Krh_92_Kauppatori_1.JPG?20120713194854)
Bigger pic at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sisu_A2045_120_Krh_92_Kauppatori_1.JPG
More pics: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:120_Krh_92

You'd need more vehicles for the crew and ammunition, though.

We could drop that old 4 pot M/C engine out put and slap in something a little more low down grunty I guess.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on May 21, 2022, 11:50:48 PM
That mortar weighs less than 300kg by itself, but with the trailer it comes close to 500 kg.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on May 22, 2022, 01:07:54 AM
That mortar weighs less than 300kg by itself, but with the trailer it comes close to 500 kg.

Well the motor is loosely based on a mid 70's Kwacker 900 so its around 80ish HP and it would have been modded for output for the track drive. However, I did wonder about having a look at the thing with the motor from the David Brown Tugmaster I did a while ago - that might be more suited to pulling field guns and stuff around. Some Khaki paint of course, once its Khaki it will pull anything ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 22, 2022, 02:24:51 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on May 22, 2022, 02:45:19 AM
Of course the bike doesn't have to pull a gun. To me, a half-track bike would be a natural for pulling something, though. I think you could put a passenger, or maybe even two, on the bike itself - and your post-apocalyptic possessions on a trailer.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: robunos on May 22, 2022, 02:51:15 AM
. . . once its Khaki John Deere Green it will pull anything ;)


FTFY !!     ;D


cheers,
Robin.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on May 22, 2022, 05:20:29 AM
Out f**king outstanding.  :smiley: ;D

Hmm, I think I may have most of the bits necessary to do something similar.

 ???

Thanks :)
Now when you say you have the bits to build this does this mean for real  :o

 ;D Nah, just in plastic.  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on May 22, 2022, 10:44:46 AM
I really love the post-apocalyptic look of this track-bike! 8)

If you want to upgrade it I'd suggest a single seat in the middle of the rear tray with water & fuel canisters on either side, a trailer hitch & a post-apocalyptic version of a pull-behind motorcycle trailer similar to the ones below.

(https://www.tourlitetrailers.com.au/files/cache/1648f8b307c11010db81429dbba3b76b.jpg)

(https://www.tourlitetrailers.com.au/files/cache/fa3bd40d4e2e291b4f31d5c3234db045.jpg)

(https://www.tourlitetrailers.com.au/files/cache/c8cf0776137e8b124c874f5a758b82a1_f493.jpg)

(https://safervideos.com/pictures/gsi/Pull-Behind-Trailer_a.jpg)

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HQ8R4GVskP4/WPD0suQcLfI/AAAAAAAAAU4/QSOGNC_4j9gKc-1IumtrGj-U9KELc2i1wCLcB/s1200/Pull-Behind-Motorcycle-Trailers-The-USA-Trailer-Store.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/550x/7b/d0/7c/7bd07ca36959a8e0d6f19f3b62ee6ad7.jpg)

The top 3 are, officially, camper-trailers & the lower 3 are, officially, cargo trailers; but that doesn't mean anything. ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on June 12, 2022, 02:28:23 AM
Ram Jet

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/ramjet/Ram%20Jet%201600.png)

Described as “Britain’s wonder air fighter” in the May 17th  1941 issue of the Hotspur boys paper.  Piloted by Captain Dan Blade, this seemingly indestructible aircraft went on to wreak all kinds of havoc on the horrible Hun with nothing more than a nasty looking lance slapped on the front.

Sometimes described as a jet and sometimes as a rocket and at other times a rocket jet so my play on “Ram Jet” is not that accurate or clever really. I have never seen any intakes on the comic images available or guns for that matter but using the whole aircraft as a weapon seems to be the offensive tactic. Aircraft, ships and steel doors hiding secret Luftwaffe bases inside mountains all fall so easily to the Destroyer as this aircraft is known… I bet old Adolf was jolly cross!

The Hotspur was published by DC Thomson & Co running from 1933 to 1959 as a story paper and relaunched as a comic in 1959 running until 1981. Some of those early covers are wonderful with some crazy ideas. Obviously the war time issues are full of propaganda and make the enemy look hopeless to lessen the fear factor I image in kids living during a world war.

There is/was/supposed to be only the one Destroyer but I thought I would slap it it my own alternative universe with some mates and get them to take out some JU 885z that were sneaking in over Dungerness to do all manner of mischief.

I have no idea who the original creator/artist was but I bet he brought a smile to a lot of kids  in those dark days and is still making even bigger kids (and small brown dogs)smile in the 21st century.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/ramjet/Hotspur.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/ramjet/Destroyer%20WIP8.png)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: robunos on June 12, 2022, 02:53:54 AM
Ooh! Me Likey !   :D
Have to say, there's a definite 'Stingray' vibe goin' on there . . .


cheers,
Robin.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on June 12, 2022, 03:25:26 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on June 12, 2022, 05:35:31 PM
Have to say, there's a definite 'Stingray' vibe goin' on there . . .

I have to say that I had trouble seeing this but once you do it stays firmly in mind.
Its possible there was an influence I guess as Derek Meddings would have been 10 years old when the Destroyer first featured in The Hotspur.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on June 14, 2022, 05:57:02 AM
Another appearance.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/cb/cf/76cbcfebc0975150795d46f1e3fe1a5a.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on June 14, 2022, 07:08:58 AM
British tailless jet flies through iceberg camo and destroys hidden Nazi PT boat.   Epic  :o
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on June 14, 2022, 12:40:14 PM
British tailless jet flies through iceberg camo and destroys hidden Nazi PT boat.   Epic  :o

You can read all about it here:
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=66068

 ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: jcf on June 14, 2022, 12:41:19 PM
I quite like this one:
(https://box01.comicbookplus.com/viewer/df/df25c4cb6070d9fb637fe8799cd1efdc/0.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on June 14, 2022, 10:39:23 PM
I quite like this one:
(https://box01.comicbookplus.com/viewer/df/df25c4cb6070d9fb637fe8799cd1efdc/0.jpg)

 ;D

This is one of the covers I have a copy of and I did think about building that fliegender Igel but I'm a lazy old hound.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 11, 2022, 04:52:12 AM
6th September 1952
Seconds from disaster.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dh110/6th%20September%201952.png)

None of this will be new to you guys but  ... what the hell.
I'm still having trouble coming up with Dieselpunk an alt universe stuff but I'm having fun with real history :)

The de Havilland DH110 was a prototype all weather interceptor intended for use by the Fleet Air Arm, a role it later fulfilled better known as the Sea Vixen.  There was however a tragic episode in the development of the aircraft that took place on Saturday the  6th September 1952 at the Farnborough SBAC air show.

The first prototype, WG236, took to the air on 26th September 1951 and was followed by the second prototype, WG240 which was chosen for display at the Farnborough air show in September 1952.

WG240 was quite a head turner in her all black scheme and her daily routine of  breaking the sound barrier from a shallow dive  was much talked about. Sonic booms were a feature of those famous early 1950’s shows and no doubt looked forward to by the spectators that would attend the public days.  WG240 did delight the crowds on Friday but unfortunately on Saturday she became unserviceable.

Test Pilot John Derry along with flight test observer Anthony Richards, flew to de Havilland’s Hatfield factory to collect WG236 and arrived back at Farnborough and started their display at around 3:45.pm.

WG236 arrived over Farnborough from a shallow dive from 40.000ft appearing overhead at an estimated 1000 – 1500ft complete with sonic boom.  She flew out of site to turn and line up for a low pass over the main runway at high speed banking left and flying the circuit bringing her back over the boundary at around 400ft.

Again she banked left towards the spectators and in the same instant as she began to climb she disintegrated. The outer wing sections and the cockpit separated from the airframe. The cockpit section, still occupied by Derry and Richards, fell right in front of the spectators nearest the runway and injured several.

Both engines detached from the airframe, one of which fell harmlessly while the other ploughed into the spectators standing on observation hill. The main airframe fluttered down like a leaf on the opposite side of the runway.

In total there we 31 deaths including the crew and 63 injured.

The cause of the crash was structural failure and there are several places on the internet where you can find out more about it, the resulting crash and the aftermath.

John Derry was a seasoned test pilot and decorated ex RAF pilot having flown Typhoons during WW2. He, along with many of the test pilots of that time, were household names. Another one of which at Farnborough that day, Neville Duke, took up the prototype Hawker Hunter and broke the sound barrier once the runway had been cleared.
 
We live in different times.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dh110/DA%201600.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dh110/DA%203%201600.png)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 12, 2022, 01:26:02 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 12, 2022, 10:19:58 AM
Very nicely rendered  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 17, 2022, 05:46:06 PM
WG240

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dh110/WG204%20POSS%201.png)

Second prototype DH110 WG240 in her all black Farnborough 1952 air show livery.
Somewhere over the Solent preparing to enter a shallow dive that would bring her over the Farnborough runway at the speed of sound.
She delighted the crowds with her looks and sonic booms but was grounded on Saturday 6th September owing to a critical fault. Her pilot, John Derry along with flight test observer Anthony Richards, lost their lives along with 29 spectators the same day after collecting the first Prototype, WG236, and flying her instead of WG240 at the show.

One visit to the to the  DH Museum, a couple of books on G. de Haviland and John Derry and I think I have that out of my system now :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 18, 2022, 05:11:51 AM
Ooh-ah!  :smiley:

I know that the early DH.110s proved a disaster but WG240 just looks so right!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 19, 2022, 12:48:59 AM
An operational one in Gloster Javelin style scheme would look cool:

(https://combatace.com/applications/downloads/interface/legacy/screenshot.php?path=/monthly_12_2014/aadfc4d5f8f224e734a24746005f19a8-img00135.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 20, 2022, 03:31:40 AM
An operational one in Gloster Javelin style scheme would look cool:

Well it intrigued me too so I have knocked up a rough.
No refinement or photo bashing onto a decent background but it does the trick.

The model is still pre show disaster as WG240 was modified as can be imagined and did not return to flight for two years by which time the RAF had got all horny over the Javelin so they dropped the DH. However, the RN had taken a fancy to it it and , well, the rest is history as they say.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/dh110/RAF%20Beyond%20the%20sprue.png)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 20, 2022, 03:32:30 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 30, 2022, 11:48:42 PM
Junk Racer

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/junkracer/FINAL%201%201600.png)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/junkracer/FINAL%202%201600.png)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/junkracer/FINAL%203.png)

The second great wave of space exploration left behind several “jump off” planets that had once been the new frontier but now had very much reduced populations as everyone wanted to sample the newer worlds. All that remained on some of the old frontier moons and planets were ship yards, engineering technical centres and maintenance units.  Alongside these organisations there were some thriving communities as there was money to be made and quite a lot of it involved scrap and refurbishment. 

No matter where you are in the universe, if there are people into engines then there are people building home brews and risking everything at race meetings once a month. It’s a need for speed and you either get it or you don’t. If you do you probably love to tinker as well and so if your world is largely made up of obsolete and broken tech designed to allow a body to move very quickly then you are going to have some fun building your very own junk racer.

It’s a thing that has a history that goes directly back to the Hot Rods way back when on Earth and of course within the genre there are sub genres, one of which is shock riding. By the late 22nd century shock riding is very popular and  a great deal of moneny can be made if you survive the ride.

Lets face it, going fast is great. Making a hell of a noise is great too but doing them both at the same time is awesome. So, the aim of the shock rider is to create a sonic boom and ride with it over a set course. Now you might think that’s going to be easy in the late 22nd century but, like now, there are rules and in the main these are overseen by the Private Atmosphere and Vacuum vehicle administration.

The PAVVA bill was a much needed piece of legislation introduced to control the use of high energy thrust technology and associated hardware along with a whole host of tech deemed unsuitable for private use.

Some examples:
Atmosphere rated Ion thrusters are OK, Helium-3 reactors in an EMFEM containment field are not.   Reaction field and Field envelopment tech OK,  Parallel Space Transit Compression Field Generators – absolutely not.

The average junk racer, as pictured above, consists of a surface rated energy/EMFEM generator and slave unit with T coil power conditioning.  This will give you sufficient power for front and rear reaction field generators to keep you off the ground, manoeuvre, keep you stable and stop ... eventually.

The remaining power output is used for Ionic thrust and that all important field envelopment that will help you glide through the air like a hot knife through butter. To keep all the above functioning as it should, system monitoring hardware such as the Teranavia SYSMON 200 range is used. Some Junk jockeys run without field envelopment as they love building old school aerodynamic vehicles. Most of these guys have letters after their names, mostly R.I.P. 

Finally, by law, you will need a means of escape in the event of the vehicle becoming uncontrollable. Most Junk racers have separating cockpits that make use of exploding bolt separation and low altitude thrusters and parachute.  A helmet is recommended.

There are of course many rules and regulations governing all race meetings which is beyond the scope of this article but of course there are some creative interpretations made that make life interesting.

Shock riding: if you’re gonna go then go with a bang!


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 31, 2022, 01:01:40 AM
Oh, yeah! That's just cool! 8)


Would love a few more images from different angles! :-*

Other side, perhaps? Top? High quarter view, even? ???
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on August 31, 2022, 02:05:07 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on August 31, 2022, 05:44:37 PM

Would love a few more images from different angles! :-*

Other side, perhaps? Top? High quarter view, even? ???


I don't have much rendered in different angles but there are some work in prog images to have a look at including a really early rough where I was going to use a bang seat and roll cage type thing. During the heat wave we hade here I got to thinking about going back to biking as I do every year when the sun shines. I got it out of my system with this model :)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/junkracer/wip8.png)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/junkracer/wip9d.png)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/junkracer/wip1.png)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on August 31, 2022, 05:47:27 PM
Terrific shape.

Really like this one
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on August 31, 2022, 11:17:09 PM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: ChernayaAkula on September 03, 2022, 08:15:41 AM
That's pretty cool! 8)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on September 03, 2022, 12:56:31 PM
I might feel a bit vulnerable skimming the ground on something like this at supersonic speeds, envelopment field or not.

Where's the escape system on the finished one?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on September 03, 2022, 05:34:07 PM
I might feel a bit vulnerable skimming the ground on something like this at supersonic speeds....

You would make a great junk jockey if you are only going to feel "a bit vulnerable"  :smiley:
The escape system on this version is a bit tricky thats for sure and I'm still working on it although I must admit that all the current ideas result in life changing injuries  :(
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on September 03, 2022, 05:42:14 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 14, 2023, 05:29:03 PM
HP42 "HANNO"

Been out of the picture for the last few months due to illness and loss of someone very special. Still no imaganitive mojo operating yet but I had started this HP42 and thought I should finish it.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/HP42/Hanno%201600.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/HP42/21.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/HP42/ENGINE.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/HP42/Poster.png)

A favourite of mine from long ago when, as a kid, I was holding the Airfix kit box and marveling at the Roy Cross art work. The HP42 has always held a special place for me with its sort of hybrid or missing link looks, a bit like something made up of what had been and what was coming.

G-AAUD, production number 42/3, was named after the Carthaginian explorer "Hanno" the Navigator, who explored the Atlantic coast of Africa in approx. 570 BC. Hanno first flew on 19 July 1931 and was later converted to a H.P.42(W) (Hannibal class). The aircraft was impressed into No. 271 Squadron RAF and was destroyed in a gale at Whitchurch Airport, Bristol when it was blown together with Heracles and damaged beyond repair on 19 March 1940.

The HP42 has been described in some places as the Concorde of its day but with a cruising speed of just 90 - 100MPH depending on the head winds, it perhaps falls short of such a comparison. I think it has a magnificence if not majesty all of its own and is an icon of the golden age of aviation.




Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on March 14, 2023, 09:13:12 PM
Really nice work on "Hanno", Mr SBD! 8) :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: finsrin on March 14, 2023, 10:30:16 PM
Those are interesting points about HP42.   One thing about model building is it sometimes introduces me to aircraft I was not aware of.   Airfix HP42 kit is one such aircraft.
Do like HP42 as is though kit-bashed it into Slowy Jet.   Worlds slowest combat jet.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on March 15, 2023, 01:49:24 AM
 :smiley:  Ah, the Golden Era!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 19, 2023, 08:28:01 AM
SBD: Sorry for your loss. Hope with a return to health comes that illusive mojo ...

A favourite of mine from long ago ...

Mine too!  :D  And you've done a lovely job on her. That first image of Hanno over Giza is especially evocative  :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on March 19, 2023, 03:00:16 PM
The H.P.42 is a cool design, although I mainly see it as a representative of a time when people where still going where "no white man has gone before".
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 29, 2023, 05:18:14 PM
THUNDERBIRD 2

Still fininshing some WIP and I have to feed my Thunderbird fetish every now and again so ...

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB2/Pod%2051600%20final.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/TB2/TB2Fly%201500.png)


Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on March 29, 2023, 05:36:40 PM
Ah, Thunderbird 2! My favourite since I was knee-high to a grasshopper! :-*
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 30, 2023, 10:05:34 AM
Is it just me or does this one have a bit of a WALL-E vibe to it?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on March 30, 2023, 04:38:05 PM
Is it just me or does this one have a bit of a WALL-E vibe to it?

Those eyes look so right  :smiley:
Maybe all the Tbird craft should faces something like Thomas the Tank Engine and his friends.

You may have started something here ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on March 31, 2023, 03:38:52 AM
... Maybe all the Tbird craft should faces something like Thomas the Tank Engine and his friends...

Love it!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on June 01, 2023, 04:48:36 AM
Stingray

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Stingray/STINGRAY%201500DA.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Stingray/Terrorfish%20WIP.png)

I think without doubt or fear of contradiction that the greatest ever opening scene of any TV series has to be Gerry Andersons Stingray. Yeah I know it’s all subjective but even now after almost 50 years I still get that tingle when it runs. Its so damned exciting you just get caught up in it and you actually believe that “anything can happen in the next half hour”.

Now just to throw a spanner in the works I do have to state that very quickly that  as a kid I began to think that not one of the stories ever lived up to the opening sequence and that awful ending “Marina” song was so sickly sweet I was scared all my teeth would rot and fall out ...or maybe that was later when Ayesha Brough and Gabriel Drake were rewiring my brain in UFO.

Anyway, there is that great but crazy scene in the opening sequence where Stingray leaps out of the water with a Titan Terror fish following. I always wondered what the back story to that might have been and I figured it was a last ditch attempt to shake of the Terror fish which had previously snuck up on Stingray and let loose a couple of torp’s . So some decades later I thought I would recreate that underwater attack scene from my childhood head.

I imagine there are some that wonder what the hell I’m on about re the opening sequence so here you go and remember this was 1964 …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NtEXv7DZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NtEXv7DZs)

By the way, I think that following hot on the heels of Stingray has to be the opening sequence to the Prisoner but I’m happy to be persuaded different.

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Stingray/WIP%201.png)

(https://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Stingray/WIP%202.png)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: robunos on June 01, 2023, 05:29:24 AM
XLNT . . . !!
The thing I could never work out with Stingray was why, if the Bad Guys were aquatic creatures that lived under the sea, when there was an attack warning, the WASP base hid itself underground in case of an air raid . . .


" Marina, Aqua Marina, what's that strange , and haunting, smell of fish when you're near . . ."


cheers,
Robin.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Old Wombat on June 02, 2023, 12:09:03 AM
I noticed some definite elements of the Thunderbirds theme music in the Stingray theme music.

Stingray wasn't something that had much impact on my childhood, nor was Captain Scarlet.

Thunderbirds did.

I don't know why because I remember having seen episodes of all of them but only Thunderbirds made any real impression on  me.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on June 02, 2023, 02:29:04 AM
XLNT . . . !!
The thing I could never work out with Stingray was why, if the Bad Guys were aquatic creatures that lived under the sea, when there was an attack warning, the WASP base hid itself underground in case of an air raid . . .
shhhh....applying logic breaks the spell  ;)

" Marina, Aqua Marina, what's that strange , and haunting, smell of fish when you're near . . ."
That made me LoL  ;D

cheers,
Robin.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on June 02, 2023, 02:34:44 AM
I noticed some definite elements of the Thunderbirds theme music in the Stingray theme music.

Stingray wasn't something that had much impact on my childhood, nor was Captain Scarlet.

Thunderbirds did.

I don't know why because I remember having seen episodes of all of them but only Thunderbirds made any real impression on  me.

Oh hell yes, Thunderbird's was "it" as far as I was/am concerned. Nothing touched it then or since.
Lots of the Barry Grey music written for stingray became reused as incidental music for Tbirds.

When I become the next king of England, as I should be, I would make the Thunderbird's them the national anthem and all the emergency vehicles would have the Stingray bongos for sirens  ;) 
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on June 02, 2023, 11:55:42 AM
I remember watching Thunderbirds as a kid and loving it. At some point, I built an Angel Interceptor model, just because I thought it was a cool design. I had no idea about its context, or Captain Scarlet. I remember seeing an episode or two of Captain Scarlet later on. I don't think I've ever seen a Stingray episode.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on June 02, 2023, 05:24:19 PM
Stingray was of my time, so I love this drawing.

Stargazer Models used to do a Resin kit of stingray, but no more sadly. I will have to ask if he still has the moulds next time I see him
(http://www.planet3earth.co.uk/stingray/8.jpg)

I noticed some definite elements of the Thunderbirds theme music in the Stingray theme music.
Stingray wasn't something that had much impact on my childhood, nor was Captain Scarlet.
Thunderbirds did.
I don't know why because I remember having seen episodes of all of them but only Thunderbirds made any real impression on  me.


I find myself totally opposite, Fireball XL5, Space Patrol, Stingray and moreso Captain Scarlet were more in my zone than Thunderbirds
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on June 03, 2023, 09:49:22 AM
...When I become the next king of England, as I should be ...

King Canis the First?  I'd vote for ya  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 30, 2023, 05:24:23 PM
Nachtschwalbe

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Nachtschwalbe/Nachtswalbe.png)

Messerschmitt’s response to the mid 1930’s RLM invitation to aircraft manufacturers to submit designs for a fast multi role bomber was doomed from the outset. The Daimler Benz alternative to the Junker’s  Jumo Elektrisch 211 power cell  was crippled with design issues. Politics also played a major part in the cancellation of the project but not before 3 prototypes had been built.

Given the company designated number of 512, the second prototype 512 V2, did make some successful trial flights showing good performance and handling but was too little too late. It did not help that 512 V1 was lost in a fire during an engine ground run which set the project back by six months. 

An effort to revitalise the project in 1940 also came to nothing and the remaining airframes were used as test beds for engine and equipment use. Messerschmitt had originally taken the multi role concept quite literally and designed the rear fuselage aft of the forward cabin, but including the rear cabin area, to be easily modified to take various mission equipment. The ease in which the rear section could be modified meant flight trial mounting of new and experimental equipment could be realised in a very short time with little airframe modification.

By early 1943 the RAF bombing of Germany was well underway and airborne detection equipment was constantly being upgraded. The 512 was perfect for this role now the power unit problems had been solved and both prototypes were in constant employment in this field.   At the request of the RLM, 512 V2 was to be modified for night interception trials. The latest and very powerful DB super lift power units were installed along with a 4 x 20mm ventral gun pack.

Heinkel were currently working on a promising night interception aircraft but it would be some time in reaching an operational status and so in the meantime the ME 512/B   would be put into limited production. It proved to a be a success but its crowning glory came after the decision to trial the Schräge Musik armament concept in conjunction with even more powerful DB super lift ELG units.

This modification went into service just as the Avro London was making its presence felt over Germany. The London had rudimentary close skin ballistic shielding although the shielding was prone to low percentage charging and frequent all out failures. However, when it worked the London could be difficult to down.

The ME 512/C now christened Nachtswalbe, was to prove a constant thorn in the side of RAF bomber command. The tactic of using the so called “over lift” to rise up behind the target and firing in order to neutralise the rear gunner and quickly discharge the shield capacitors left the London wide open. The Nachtswalbe would then drop away under negative lift to close in under the bomber and allow the rear mounted Schräge Musik to serenade the bomber.

The wing root tanks of the London were the target area of choice often because a full bomb load detonation could result in both hunter and prey being destroyed. However, as with the ballistic shielding of the London, the Nachtswalbe’s Super lift ELG units also had some issues.

Super positive and negative lift generation could result in field spool over spin that could not be countered unless there was a lot of height available to allow for shutdown and re spin up. This was also an issue for the mighty Junker Jumo Elektrisch 211. Nowadays of course we have super redundant digital systems taking care of all that sort of thing but in the dark days of the 1940’s it could all get a little hairy very quickly.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Nachtschwalbe/WIP%201.png)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/Nachtschwalbe/WIP%202.png)

Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on July 31, 2023, 01:05:39 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: perttime on July 31, 2023, 02:20:27 AM
Looks as if the Schräge Musik guns point almost straight up?
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on July 31, 2023, 03:06:42 AM
Very nice! And a great backstory (as usual)  :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Buzzbomb on July 31, 2023, 06:39:34 AM
Well that is a neat design. I really like it.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 31, 2023, 04:07:25 PM
Looks as if the Schräge Musik guns point almost straight up?

It was a last minute addition to spice the project up which I was beginning  consider a bit boring to be honest. I think they are set at something like 10, maybe 15 degrees so not optimum.
Before the Schage Musik I toyed with the idea of a turret but honestly I had had a enough of the thing so pointy upward stuff was so much easier to slap on the back ;)
 
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 31, 2023, 04:08:51 PM
Very nice! And a great backstory (as usual)  :smiley:

Appreciate that - thanks.

By the way ...
"Wake up and smell the coffee
Or just say no to individuality"


Great lyric, good song.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on July 31, 2023, 04:09:36 PM
Well that is a neat design. I really like it.

 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on August 02, 2023, 03:33:11 AM
... Great lyric, good song.

Cheers! Good to see that there are still some L7 fans around  :D
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 20, 2023, 04:54:17 PM
SBD Industries K9/600 "Flyer"

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/k9600/SBD%20Flyer%201600%20DA-FINAL.jpg)

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/k9600/SBD%202%20%20Flyer%203000-FINAL.jpg)

SBD Industries had been created in the early 1930’s in order to hold and control the interests of several businesses that incorporated the electrical levitation and EMFEM weight compensation technology designed and created by Aero Electric Ltd.   

Although operating in several diverse markets SBD had had little involvement in Aero Cycle manufacture  prior to the 1950’s but in late 1949 SBI appointed a chief designer for its new Aero cycle Division:  Mr Ernest Mills. 
Mills career had seen him employed by some of the giants of UK traction and Aero cycle manufacturers. He received much acclaim for his development of the Isle of Man TT winning Norton Aviator Aero Cycle which had made him one of the leading industry designers.
Norton, like most other manufacturers used lift generation and traction field technology licensed from Aero Electric Ltd. In order for Mills to continue his successes he needed to stop being limited by off the shelf technology and be able to influence development directly where he could and so he approached SBD who snapped him up.

Mills wanted to develop a machine to rival the Norton Aviator and envisaged a light frame with a light yet powerful engine coupled to a very high output power generator. In addition Mills also intended that EL, EMFEM and traction field generator should occupy an area not bigger than a conventional traction cycle wheel area.

It was a tall order but Mills was aware that SBI had developed a line of small light weight super high output power generators known as the K series. These units had great potential for Aero cycles but this application had not been considered at the time of the initial development and the K series project was shelved.

Some 6 months after the appointment of Mills and under his encouragement, SBD Industries purchased Phelon & Moore Ltd.  P&M produced a line of motorcycles under the “Panther” name but in particular they produced a very capable and light weight single cylinder engine. 

Mills took an improved P&M 40 degree sloping engine which was also a stressed member of the frame and coupled it to a K6 series generator. The very high output of the K series generator allowed for smaller field generators which in turn received a boost from a new generation of Tcoil  power conditioners which were also smaller and light weight thus allowing the energy train placement within a conventional wheel area both front and rear.
And so in Spring 1960 the first SBI K6/500 was in production followed by the K7 the following year.

Aero cycle sales had gone ballistic in the late 50’s early 1960’s  with cost reductions and the introduction of hire purchase payments now available making ownership much easier. By the early 1960’s sales had overtaken conventional traction based cycles with many new and second hand machines being snapped up by members of the growing Rocker subculture.

Rocker, Ton up boy, greaser – call them what you will but one thing was a constant: the need for speed. To satisfy that need you had to have a Café Racer, an aero cycle modified for speed with drop handlebars, rear sets and a power delivery train tuned to perfection. 

There were the dream machines of course: The Bonneville Electric, The previously mentioned Norton Aviator and of course the BSA flying Gold Star but there was another machine, the ultimate machine drooled over by the many but owned only by the few.

For 1963 SBI Aero cycles under the guidance of Ernest Mills took the bold decision to incorporate all the mods that were done in garages and sheds across the land and incorporate them into one highly tuned machine: The SBI K9/600 “flyer”

Of course the Rockers never referred to it as the “Flyer”. To them and to this day the K9 is known as The Dog but then I would say that wouldn’t I.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/k9600/Ridden%201500.jpg)
Not sure about this one. Represents a renovated "Dog" as owned and operated by Brooklands Museum, Weybridge.

(http://tsbd.co.uk/beyondthesprue/k9600/3view.jpg)

That might be the last for the year as my mojo blues seem to be stronger than ever so just to depress you I'll wish you all a happy Christmas now :)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 21, 2023, 01:50:26 AM
 :smiley:
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Kerick on November 21, 2023, 10:29:58 AM
Outstanding!!
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: apophenia on November 25, 2023, 09:41:28 AM
... my mojo blues seem to be stronger than ever ...

Well, if your gorgeous K9/600 is a product of you scudding past with the mojo blues, I'd say keep it up  :smiley:

Anyway, if needs must, 'Happy Christmas' to you too. (Although that immediately has me wondering about the potential of reindeer-replacement electrical levitation drives ...)  ;)
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Small brown dog on November 27, 2023, 05:02:36 PM

Anyway, if needs must, 'Happy Christmas' to you too. (Although that immediately has me wondering about the potential of reindeer-replacement electrical levitation drives ...)  ;)

Funny you show mention that as there has been a couple of dead end ideas and one that got a little further but died involving an early Whittle engine.
Title: Re: Small Brown Dog Artwork and related
Post by: Geist on March 24, 2024, 10:56:20 PM
Nice work!
Just a tip, I would remove the aircraft shadow. It is not fitting in the scene. ;)