Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Aero-space => Topic started by: kitnut617 on December 03, 2017, 05:46:29 AM

Title: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: kitnut617 on December 03, 2017, 05:46:29 AM

Is there a designation sequence for tilt rotor aircraft ?  We have a V-22 and there's the V-280 which don't seem to be in any sequence. What would the next number (numbers) be for an 'in-service' aircraft ?  What would an escort for a V-22 be designated as ?

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: Rickshaw on December 03, 2017, 08:47:56 AM

V-24?

I really have no idea.  The Pentagon seems a law onto itself as far as designations go.  We do not know what has already been designated (but not developed), so I'd just pick a designation x numbers in advance of the known one.

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: kitnut617 on December 03, 2017, 11:00:45 PM

Well, I was thinking as there were AH-1's (Cobra) which escorted UH-1's (Huey), would an escort V-22 be an AV-22. But then the AV designation is for fixed-wing aircraft, right?

Of course you could say the V-22 is a fixed-wing too ----  :-\

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: GTX_Admin on December 04, 2017, 02:25:01 AM

Arguably these days it's whatever the Marketing Dept decides... ;)

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: elmayerle on December 04, 2017, 05:08:04 AM

Quote from: kitnut617 on December 03, 2017, 05:46:29 AM

Is there a designation sequence for tilt rotor aircraft ?  We have a V-22 and there's the V-280 which don't seem to be in any sequence. What would the next number (numbers) be for an 'in-service' aircraft ?  What would an escort for a V-22 be designated as ?

V280 is simply the Bell name that marketing is selling it as.  Tilt-rotor aircraft generally fall in the "V" designator along with other stol and vstol aircraft.  Should the V-280 win the FVL competition, you will probably see a firm military designation at that point (any bets as to whether they use "V-28" for a production one?).  An armed, gunship variant to escort the V-22 would likely be an AV-22 (probably need a new armament carrying fuselage to do the escort properly - would not be that difficult since wings and fuselage are built-up separately and only mated on final assembly).  Other capabilities are more of a RO-RO style, like the aerial refueling system or a tailored MAFSS for V-22 usage (tempted to model that one in USFS markings).

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: jcf on December 04, 2017, 06:49:55 AM

V = VTOL/STOL designations

V-1          Convertiplane        McDonnell   1954    Army/USAF experimental twin-boom - redes. H-35
                                                      pusher-propellor convertiplane w/jet rotor tips - redes. H-35/L-25

V-1(OF/AO-1)Mohawk                Grumman     1960    STOL observation - redes. AO-1

V-2                               Sikorsky    1955    experimental convertiplane

V-2 (AC-1)  Caribou               D.H.C.      1960    Army STOL - redes. AC-1 - later C-7

V-3                               Bell        1955    Army experimental convertiplane - redes. H-33

V-3                                           ?       designation reserved for Army STOL

V-4         Hummingbird           Lockheed    1962    experimental VTOL research, 4 vertical jets &
                                                      2 horizontal jets - redes. VZ-10

V-5         Vertifan              Ryan        1962    Army/NASA experimental VTOL research with
                                                      "fan-in-wing" - redes. VZ-11

V-6         Kestrel               Haw.Sidd.   1962    USAF/USN/Army evaluation of experimental STOVL
                                                      aircraft - redes. VZ-12
                                         
V-6B        Harrier               McDD/BAe    1971    probable correct designation2 in "V" series for AV-8                          

V-7 (AC-2)  Buffalo               D.H.C.      1960    Army STOL - redes. AC-2 - later C-8

V-8                               Ryan        1960    Army experimental flexible-wing "powered kite"
                                                      research

V-8         Harrier, Harrier II,  McDD/BAe    1971    USMC STOVL multirole close support attack
            Super Harrier, Jump Jet, Scarier,         fighter2
            Whistling Shitcan

V-9         Hot Cycle             Hughes      1970    Army experimental hot-cycle propulsion
                                                      research helicopter

V-10        Bronco, J-STARS       Rockwell    1965    USN/USMC/USAF FAC, LARA, J-STARS

V-11        Marvel                MSU         1969    Army experimental STOL, BLC, & wing camber
                                                      change research with ducted pusher-prop. -
                                                      all-fiberglass construction; development of AZ-1

V-12                              Rockwell    1972    USN experimental VATOL ground attack fighter

V-13                                                  unassigned for superstitious reasons?

V-14                                                  unassigned, possibly to avoid confusion with
                                                      Bell X-14 ([X]V-15 used instead)

V-15        Tiltrotor             Boeing      1977    Army/NASA experimental convertiplane
                                                      demonstrator

V-16                              BAe         1973    proposed advanced version AV-8A offered to
                                                      USN/USMC, RAF/RN

V-17                                          1973    assigned for Army XV-17A; no details known

V-18        Twin Otter            D.H.C.      1976    Army STOL utility transport

V-19                                          1977    reserved for USN; cancelled in 1980

V-20        Chiricahua            Pilatus     1979    Army STOL transport-modified civilian PC-6

V-21                                          1983    des. reserved by Navy for a tilt-rotor blimp;
                                                      incorrect - should be Z-3

V-22        Osprey                Bell/Boe.   1989    USAF/USN/USMC/Army multirole tiltrotor
                                                      aircraft

V-23        Scout                 Skytrader   1989    Army STOL airlift

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: kitnut617 on December 04, 2017, 07:30:11 AM

Thanks Jon, Evan  -----

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: Old Wombat on December 04, 2017, 12:56:38 PM

Quote from: elmayerle on December 04, 2017, 05:08:04 AM

Quote from: kitnut617 on December 03, 2017, 05:46:29 AM

Is there a designation sequence for tilt rotor aircraft ?  We have a V-22 and there's the V-280 which don't seem to be in any sequence. What would the next number (numbers) be for an 'in-service' aircraft ?  What would an escort for a V-22 be designated as ?

V280 is simply the Bell name that marketing is selling it as.  Tilt-rotor aircraft generally fall in the "V" designator along with other stol and vstol aircraft.  Should the V-280 win the FVL competition, you will probably see a firm military designation at that point (any bets as to whether they use "V-28" for a production one?).  An armed, gunship variant to escort the V-22 would likely be an AV-22 (probably need a new armament carrying fuselage to do the escort properly - would not be that difficult since wings and fuselage are built-up separately and only mated on final assembly).  Other capabilities are more of a RO-RO style, like the aerial refueling system or a tailored MAFSS for V-22 usage (tempted to model that one in USFS markings).

As the AH-1 was, essentially, built around the workings of the UH-1, the V-22/AV-22 designations make sense. :smiley:

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: jcf on December 04, 2017, 01:46:39 PM

This is the V-23:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Skytrader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Skytrader)

(http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/JS/Janes75/1/98-1.jpg)

Original configuration:
(http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/JS/Janes76/1/24-1.jpg)

In re-engined UV-23 prototype configuration:
(http://photos.smugmug.com/BTS-2/i-CzLtd7t/0/5001ba33/L/ac072918-L.jpg)

Title: Re: Tilt Rotor Designations Query
Post by: taiidantomcat on December 05, 2017, 10:47:31 PM

Quote from: kitnut617 on December 03, 2017, 11:00:45 PM

But then the AV designation is for fixed-wing aircraft, right?

this is all squadron and not aircraft designation, but might help your project still:


VA- is a squadron designation. V= fixed wing. A= attack Example VA-85. Throw in a M for Marine squadrons. Example VMA-311

(https://media.defense.gov/2013/Jan/30/2000006062/750/422/0/130123-M-MX805-136.JPG)

When Medium Heli squadrons converted to Osprey they went from HMM (Heli, Marine, Medium) to VMM (Fixed Marine Medium) but since its still in the Helicopter format ( _, Marine, Size) everyone knows its an osprey since helicopters are Light (HML), Medium (HMM), or Heavy (HMH). But Fixed wing (like actual fighters)is not designated in such a way (VMA, VMFA, VMAQ, VMO)

Current Huey and Cobra Squadrons are designated HMLA (Heli, Marine, Light, Attack) So an "Attack" Osprey squadron would become VMMA (fixed, Marine, Medium, Attack) VMMA would work since fixed wing squadrons (like actual fighters) are either VMA, or VMFA, (VMAQ will be a thing of the past here possibly. VMO already is)

I hope this makes some sense!  :-\