Author Topic: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 39771 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« on: January 12, 2012, 06:15:53 PM »
Hi folks,

An area for your Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration.

To start, how about a West German or Italian F-8.

Regards,

Greg
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 06:17:27 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 08:25:19 PM »
Did a bunch of Crusader profiles back in the day, including USAF, TPS USN, RAF & RAN along with four TF-8s, three of which were modded as recce platforms.  Also worth noting that my last F-8 was for Carl as a twin-sticker (although not in the Twosader mould, toting AIM-54s.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 02:00:09 AM »
Quote
a twin-sticker (although not in the Twosader mould

Funny.  That made me instantly think of a "Twosader" with side-by-side seating ala TF-102 or EE. Lightning Trainers.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline Jeremak

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 05:35:36 AM »
Swing wing, teardrop canopy, and "F-16 style" intake moved a bit back. All in one plane.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 05:45:14 AM »
I am pretty certain our very own Sentinel Chicken did a VG Crusader a few years ago.  Maybe he will repost it here.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 09:50:32 AM »
F-8/V-529 (A-7 with two dry F404s replacing the dry TF41) cross with two afterburner-equipped F404s and add whatever other updates you want (I'd redo the wing to allow more hardpoints with spacing similar to that of the A-7's wing).

Offline Weaver

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 01:15:32 AM »
Some old profiles I did. The backstory was that with Britain getting involved in Vietnam, the FAA made a "panic buy" of F-8s, and then later, limited to a new generation of small conventional carriers, they developed an advanced version with Vought and Hawker-Siddeley which features a raised cockpit, a better radar, and an afterburning Spey. The Paladin ended up being adopted by the French (in exchange for the FAA using French AAMs) and various other nations who bought copies of the British or French carrier designs. Two groups of the smaller NATO nations then "clubbed together" to run jointly owned carriers, with Paladins, one in the North Sea/Atlantic and one in the Mediterranean.











« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 01:20:05 AM by Weaver »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 04:24:08 AM »
I am pretty certain our very own Sentinel Chicken did a VG Crusader a few years ago.  Maybe he will repost it here.


Found it:

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 05:26:33 AM »
Certainly looks like it would work as a kit bash between a Tomcat and Crusader.  Or a Flogger and Crusader. 
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 12:40:27 PM »
Certainly looks like it would work as a kit bash between a Tomcat and Crusader.  Or a Flogger and Crusader.
Either a scaleorama between a smaller scale Tomcat and a Crusader or a same-scale bash between a later-model Flogger and a Crusader.  My only concern is that the wing looks to be a bit too far aft for proper stability.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2012, 02:30:25 AM »
An idea sprouted over in the "McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II Ideas and Inspiration" thread - USAF gets F-8s instead of cancelled F-4s.

Maybe replace variable incidence wing or at least lock it in position.  Eventually replace engine?

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2012, 11:00:55 AM »
I can see the engine getting replaced by a J79 (lighter and smaller engine with same thrust as J57) with the TF41 following on to keep pace with the A-7 in USAF usage (though a full multi-role F-8 with several wing hardpoints might obviate the need for the A-7 - be "amusing" if the improved wing for the USAF fed back into the Navy's aircraft).  Personally, I'd keep the wing variable in incidence rather than locking it down, but that's me wanting to give pilots as many options as possible.

Offline dy031101

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2012, 11:40:01 AM »
An old idea of mine (not that I'd think myself to be the first one to cook it up):

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2012, 02:11:46 PM »
It gets even more interesting if you look at the various two-seat Super Crusaders described in Tommy Thompson's book on the aircraft.  A truly marvelous read.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2012, 06:50:30 PM »
I can see the engine getting replaced by a J79 (lighter and smaller engine with same thrust as J57) with the TF41 following on to keep pace with the A-7 in USAF usage (though a full multi-role F-8 with several wing hardpoints might obviate the need for the A-7 - be "amusing" if the improved wing for the USAF fed back into the Navy's aircraft).  Personally, I'd keep the wing variable in incidence rather than locking it down, but that's me wanting to give pilots as many options as possible.

Agree fully re the engines.
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2012, 08:39:39 PM »
There was a real-life proposal for a J-79 engined Crusader. IIRC, it was offered for the export fighter requirement that was eventually met by the F-5E.

Those Paladins I posted earlier are supposed to be powered by afterburning Speys, hence the deepened intakes.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 08:41:59 PM by Weaver »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2012, 02:25:02 AM »
There was a real-life proposal for a J-79 engined Crusader. IIRC, it was offered for the export fighter requirement that was eventually met by the F-5E.



That would be the Vought IFA V-1000 or the Super V-1000 (I'm a little unclear which exactly was the J-79 powered version - will check more):

1 x J79-GE-17 turbojet, 8120kgf
Span: 10.9m
Length: 16.7mHeight: 4.96m

Wing Area: 49.2 sq m
Empty Weight: 8200kg
Fuel: 2940kg
Warload: 2720kg
MTOW, intercept mission: 11790kg
Max Speed: Mach 1.7
Takeoff run: 600m
Ceiling: 18045m
Radius of action: 510km
Armament: 2 x 20 mm M39, 2 x AIM-9



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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 02:45:28 PM »
I am pretty certain our very own Sentinel Chicken did a VG Crusader a few years ago.  Maybe he will repost it here.


Found it:




Oh no what have you done Sentinel Chicken  :o
You have taken one of my favourite simple and easily maintainable fighters and given it the VG wing :-\
Too much weight and complexity  :-\

(But a great effort as usual  ;) )

M.A.D 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:16:57 PM by M.A.D »

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2012, 02:48:46 PM »
A few new ideas:

  • JASDF F-8
  • South Korean F-8
  • South Vietnamese F-8
  • Taiwanese F-8
  • Canadian F-8
  • Wild Weasel Twosader
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 02:50:35 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 09:53:13 AM »
Like these CAF F-8s?





Thanks Chris aka Coops213.
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2012, 11:45:42 AM »
Yep
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2012, 03:57:05 PM »
Canadian Navy seems to be missing.  By intention or accident? 
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 07:53:58 PM »
Good question. I looked in my profile stash and I don't have any.

Chris, John: you up to the challenge?
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2012, 02:34:25 AM »
Several years ago, I did up a Luftwaffe Crusader in a splinter version of the wraparound camo their Tornados used to have back in the 80s.

I didn't do any real radical changes to it, but stuck an LRMTS type blister under the fuselage between the intake lip and forward gear bay and hung a smaller Paveway laser bomb under each wing.
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2012, 02:41:58 AM »
Several years ago, I did up a Luftwaffe Crusader in a splinter version of the wraparound camo their Tornados used to have back in the 80s.

I didn't do any real radical changes to it, but stuck an LRMTS type blister under the fuselage between the intake lip and forward gear bay and hung a smaller Paveway laser bomb under each wing.

Any pics?
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2012, 07:03:36 AM »
John also did a USN F-8 with AIM-54s but I cannot find it.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2012, 02:29:37 PM »
John also did a USN F-8 with AIM-54s but I cannot find it.

WHAT!!!!
Wow I must have missed that  :icon_crap:
Wow what a payload for the Crusader!!
Did he put a big radome on it to fit the AWG-9 radar?
Or was it intended to simply be a delivery-truck of sorts - so as to get the missiles into the air, whence the F-14 Tomcat's of the fleet would illuminate and track the targets?
 
One thing is for sure - the pilot would not afford to carry his toothbrush!! For it would brake the Camels back  ;) 

M.A.D

Offline upnorth

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2012, 03:53:45 PM »
Several years ago, I did up a Luftwaffe Crusader in a splinter version of the wraparound camo their Tornados used to have back in the 80s.

I didn't do any real radical changes to it, but stuck an LRMTS type blister under the fuselage between the intake lip and forward gear bay and hung a smaller Paveway laser bomb under each wing.

Any pics?

Sadly, no pics. The camera I had at the time wasn't up to taking pics of models. :(
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2012, 07:43:36 PM »
John also did a USN F-8 with AIM-54s but I cannot find it.

WHAT!!!!
Wow I must have missed that  :icon_crap:
Wow what a payload for the Crusader!!
Did he put a big radome on it to fit the AWG-9 radar?
Or was it intended to simply be a delivery-truck of sorts - so as to get the missiles into the air, whence the F-14 Tomcat's of the fleet would illuminate and track the targets?
 
One thing is for sure - the pilot would not afford to carry his toothbrush!! For it would brake the Camels back  ;) 

M.A.D

I won an ESCI F-8E as part of a lot win and I have some Hasegawa AIM-54s so ... dump into blender, puree for 10 minutes and pour onto the deck.  ;D

My thoughts were the F-14 airframe/wings/engines etc were taking too long to integrate so they took the working AWG-9, put it in a rather large pod, mounted on it on a inboard pylon, added a RIO GIB (John's profile showed this via an itty-bitty window) and mount the AIM-54s on the other 3 available pylons.

I looked at putting the AWG-9 on the airframe but the cross section is BIG. I'd have to move the engine intake which defeats the purpose of a stop-gap solution.

And yes they pulled out the gun out to fit the in RIO. Let's call it a stop gap just to get the AIM-54 into the field. Hmmm, I wonder if there is room for a GEPOD-30?

John: Can I add this to your queue. I don't know what why I don't have a copy of your work.  :icon_crap:

 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 08:30:32 PM by The Big Gimper »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2012, 08:41:29 PM »
There you go Carl.



Regards,

John
Regards,

John

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2012, 02:16:26 AM »
 :)
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2012, 06:57:36 PM »
Thanks John.
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2012, 02:43:32 AM »
 :)
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Offline TerryCampion

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2012, 03:19:36 AM »
I built this some time ago.....

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2012, 05:52:11 PM »
Any more photos?
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2012, 06:38:18 PM »
Coming soon....off to Cambridge for a rock festival in a minute >:D >:D

Offline TerryCampion

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2012, 05:52:03 AM »
More Crusaders...all 1/48th Revell/Monogram.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2012, 05:57:14 AM »
Definitely liking the JASDF AF CAF Crusaders! 
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Offline TerryCampion

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2012, 09:02:37 PM »
More Crusaders.....

Offline TerryCampion

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2012, 09:05:15 PM »
Er....with pictures this time!! ::) ::)

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2012, 02:07:41 AM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline TerryCampion

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2012, 04:54:31 AM »
More.....

Offline TerryCampion

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2012, 04:56:41 AM »
...pictures  ??? ??? ::) ::)

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2012, 03:11:15 PM »
 :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2013, 01:40:50 AM »
Being neither very original nor that hard to build put a RF-8 into U.S.A.F. or US Army during Vietnam.
Or Khemed. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 02:13:28 AM by Daryl J. »
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2013, 12:18:23 PM »
A Spey powered Twosader?

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2013, 02:01:33 PM »
A Spey powered Twosader?


Was proposed...


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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2013, 03:50:33 PM »
I had heard of it but never heard the Shorts bit nor had I seen any art work for it, would have been able to fly from a Centaur or Victorious?  (or even a Majestic)

Offline AGRA

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2013, 06:51:33 PM »
I had heard of it but never heard the Shorts bit nor had I seen any art work for it, would have been able to fly from a Centaur or Victorious?  (or even a Majestic)

Crusaders are two heavy for Majestic class carriers but if Centaurs could fly Scimitars they should be able to fly Crusaders. Hermes and Victorious no problems.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »
I would love to have seen Victorious under the RAN Ensign with Crusaders and Twosaders lining her flight deck.  I wonder how long she could have been retined in service, she was older than Melbourne but her modernisation was pretty close to a total rebuild and she was a sturdier design.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2013, 12:28:48 AM »
What radar was specified for the RN "Twosader"?

Or would a two-man crew have been much-more worthwhile even for the stock AN/APQ-94 or -149?
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2013, 08:10:36 AM »
Evil idea: build a model of this test ship then sit back and wait for the JMNs to tell you it's the wrong missile for a USN aircraft:

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2013, 10:05:30 AM »
Then, of course, there's that pictorially documented case of a Navy F-8 doing a test flight from Grand Prarie with the back fuselage of a Marine aircraft.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2014, 03:19:45 AM »
Just a nice photo:

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2015, 06:13:56 AM »
Lateral intakes for Crusader.


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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: September 27, 2015, 06:27:30 AM »
Interesting look
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2015, 06:03:53 AM »
Something I found online this week:

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2016, 11:05:14 AM »


« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 11:09:14 AM by The Big Gimper »
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2017, 11:26:59 AM »
Interesting, particularly from the whif point of view, unbuilt Crusader variants from the new Specialty Press book:

VFA Crusader with more attack capability and a second hard point under each wing
All-weather F8U-2 with slightly larger radome, no guns, and carrying Sparrow III's
All-weather two-seat in tandem version of the F8U-3 proposed to Canada

Has a good bit on the evolution from F-8 to A-7, too.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: March 14, 2018, 04:12:04 AM »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2018, 06:22:35 AM »
Supposedly a real proposal:


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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2018, 06:27:07 AM »
 1969?
That seems awfully late for something with that layout.  ???
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2018, 01:16:05 PM »
Interesting, particularly from the whif point of view, unbuilt Crusader variants from the new Specialty Press book:

VFA Crusader with more attack capability and a second hard point under each wing
All-weather F8U-2 with slightly larger radome, no guns, and carrying Sparrow III's

Ohhh, any drawings of these proposals?? :P

M.A.D

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2018, 07:29:19 PM »
How about an F/A-8 Crusader instead of the A-7, a true F-8 derivative instead of virtually a new aircraft of the same configuration?  This likely would have sold quite well, imagine it with all the A-7 operators, as well as a number of countries that opted for supersonic fighter attack types.

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2018, 02:29:26 AM »
How about an F/A-8 Crusader instead of the A-7, a true F-8 derivative instead of virtually a new aircraft of the same configuration?  This likely would have sold quite well, imagine it with all the A-7 operators, as well as a number of countries that opted for supersonic fighter attack types.
The Crusader really didn't have a lot of spare lifting capability with a max payload, including fuel, of 7 ton. The Phantom's, by comparison was double that at over 14 tons. It's also instructive that the primary stores points were on the side of the fuselage (even though the wings could take 2000 lb each) which suggests that the wing hinge and elevation mechanism wasn't terribly happy with extra wing loads during landing and take off.

So you'd probably have to redesign the wing and the mechanism to handle higher loads. Of course, once you've done that the effect ripples through the aircraft in terms of higher weights and lower overall performance and possibly shorter range. Certainly, the aircraft didn't have long legs and loading it up with bombs wouldn't help that at all. The Crusader really isn't a terribly good candidate for turning into a multirole or strike fighter mostly because it had been quite optimised as a daytime visual range dogfighter. It's instructive that neither the Yanks nor the French moved to upgrade the Crusaders to carry BVR missiles which seems to indicate that they were too specialised to be worth the upgrade. And remember, one of the reasons the Crusader had the variable incidence wing was to allow it to take off and land with a wing that required either too high a landing speed or too great a nose up attitude to generate the needed lift at carrier speeds. Increasing loads, dirtying the wing or changing it substantively would possibly result in the inability to carrier deploy or in a larger wing, further degrading performance.  They really did optimise the Crusader as a day fighter.

Paul

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2018, 04:30:16 AM »
Crusaders with wing stores:



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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2018, 08:33:41 AM »
Apart from thinking those bombs aren't big enough     :P :P :P  what are those pods mounted on the Sidewinder rails ?

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2018, 09:59:42 AM »
Apart from thinking those bombs aren't big enough     :P :P :P  what are those pods mounted on the Sidewinder rails ?

The bombs are Mk-84 2000lb bombs. Plenty big enough to ruin someone's day. The pods are rockets. Each pod carries two 5 inch Zuni rockets for 4 on each side and 8 total. But the F-8 never was considered a very effective or useful ground attack bird.

Ed

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2018, 02:25:38 PM »
So in a nut shell the excellent day fighter F-8 wasn't a very good attack aircraft while the excellent Attack A-7 wasn't a very good fighter.  Maybe something half way between the two could have been good enough, or more than good enough at both....


Oh wait a second, isn't that what I suggested in the first place  ;)

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2018, 03:34:32 AM »
Something akin to the V-1000 or Super V-1000?



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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2018, 03:12:26 AM »
Crusaders with wing stores:
Exactly. There's not much actually hanging on those wings. 2000 lb per wing I think was the max. according to Wiki.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2018, 02:04:25 PM »
How about an F/A-8 Crusader instead of the A-7, a true F-8 derivative instead of virtually a new aircraft of the same configuration?  This likely would have sold quite well, imagine it with all the A-7 operators, as well as a number of countries that opted for supersonic fighter attack types.
According to the recent Specialty Press book on the F-8, there was a study, V-456, that added another hardpoint to each wing of the F-8.  This ended up being a waypoint in the evolution of the "Attack Crusader"/Corsair II from the Crusader.  Might be worth modeling in USMC markings.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2018, 02:07:38 AM »
Wing-Tip mounted AAM launch rails should also be a must-have for any new build or refurbished Crusader. 
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2018, 02:31:42 AM »
Crusaders with wing stores:
Exactly. There's not much actually hanging on those wings. 2000 lb per wing I think was the max. according to Wiki.

I wonder if that had more to do with the variable incidence jacking system the F-8 had. Maybe not able to handle too much weight on the wing.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2018, 12:55:17 AM »
Crusaders with wing stores:
Exactly. There's not much actually hanging on those wings. 2000 lb per wing I think was the max. according to Wiki.

I wonder if that had more to do with the variable incidence jacking system the F-8 had. Maybe not able to handle too much weight on the wing.
Very likely, I suspect. Mind, the entire wing system may have been built lightly to limit weight, so having decided that the aircraft was primarily a dogfighter, they could have purposely decided to limit everything else in an effort to lower weight and increase speed/acceleration.

So the jacks may be designed at the same time as a wing that can also only take the 2000 lb loads, etc. etc. as the whole thing is optimised for the dog fight mission.

Paul

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2019, 12:20:16 PM »
Looking through some old favorite books whilst doing my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT', when for the first time in decades I noticed the following:

M.A.D

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2019, 12:27:01 PM »
Interesting!!  That's not something I have ever heard of.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2019, 03:40:39 PM »
Interesting!!  That's not something I have ever heard of.

Me neither elmayerle😮

I'm assuming it's an assumption, as the book in question was my bible on aircraft before I learnt about WWW.

M.A.D

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2019, 02:45:38 AM »
Hmmm...dubious I am.  Have cross checked a number of highly respectable references (both online and off) and can find no reference to this.  At the very least, I would expect a new designation for these birds if they did exist.  The closest I could find was the proposed V-463 Attack Crusader which led to the A-7.  This had a TF30.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2019, 11:17:10 PM »
No reference to the TF30 but I do recall that the Reagan years 600 ship navy proposed the reactivation of, I believe, four Essex class carriers, and the modernisation of F-8s to fly from them.  I wonder if the two proposals could be linked?

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2019, 12:52:41 AM »
Looking through some old favorite books whilst doing my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT', when for the first time in decades I noticed the following:

M.A.D

What book is this from mate?
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Offline Kelmola

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2019, 07:23:03 PM »
No reference to the TF30 but I do recall that the Reagan years 600 ship navy proposed the reactivation of, I believe, four Essex class carriers, and the modernisation of F-8s to fly from them.  I wonder if the two proposals could be linked?
Would it have made sense to refurbish F-8's, or could the F-18 actually have operated off Essexes? The upgraded Essexes had the same catapults as the Midway class which could and did operate F-4''s and F-18's (but not F-14 or S-3). Wiki claims that an upgraded Essex could operate planes weighing up to 52 000 lbs which is conveniently the MTOW for legacy Hornet.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2019, 08:26:09 PM »
Looking through some old favorite books whilst doing my 'Alternative ADF ORBAT', when for the first time in decades I noticed the following:

M.A.D

What book is this from mate?

Greg it's Modern Warplanes: A technical survey of the world's most significant combat aircraft in service by Doug Richardson, published in 1982. As I said, it was my true and trusted bible on military aircraft 😩

P.S. it had some really cool 'speculative' profile drawing of up and coming aircraft - like the EH-101, Lavi, RAM-L, the sexiest JAS 39 😍, J-8 Finback, RAM-J, RAM-K, RAM-P 😯

M.A.D



« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:30:04 PM by M.A.D »

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2019, 02:17:35 AM »
Ok.  I have a copy of that at home.  I will do some more investigating this coming weekend once I get back home.
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2019, 05:05:31 AM »
I have been doing some further research into this purported TF30 powered F-8 and can find no other references other than those already mentioned.  I am therefore of the opinion that it is an error in that publication and even if briefly considered (which I can also find no reference to), was certainly never seriously considered.  Mind you, that doesn't mean that one could not do something in the whiffverse... ;)

Comparing engines:

J57-P-20A (as used in F-8J)
Length: 244 in (6197.6mm)
Diameter: 39 in (990.6mm)
Dry weight: 4,751 lb (2,155 kg)
Maximum thrust: 10,700 lbf dry, 18,700 lbf with afterburner
SFC: 0.77 il/h dry, 2.6 ib/h afterburner
TF30-P-100 (as used in F-111F)
Length: 241.7 in (6139mm) - therefore, TF30 slightly shorter and should be able to fit
Diameter: 49 in (1245mm) - therefore, TF30 fatter and therefore will require modified rear fuselage to fit
Dry weight: 3,999 lb (1,814 kg) - therefore, TF30 lighter, though this will probably be balanced out by additional fuselage weight to accomodate
Maximum thrust: 15,300 lbf dry, 25,100 lbf with afterburner - therefore, TF30 much more powerful in both dry and afterburner
SFC: 0.67 il/h dry, 2.5 ib/h afterburner - therefore, TF30 also better fuel consumption, though will the drag effect of the larger fuselage impact here?

If one was to update the F-8 such as this, one might as well also look at a radar update.  Maybe replace the AN/APQ-124 radar with something such as a APG-66 as used in the F-16?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2019, 11:53:30 AM »
Not sure just how much "fatter" the rear fuselage would have to be to accommodate a TF30.  The J57 is a straight turbojet and would need cooling airflow around it while the TF30, as a turbofan, would now need that, save perhaps around the afterburner (could be accommodated by scoops on the rear fuselage as on other aircraft).  You might need to use an A-7 intake as I am not certain of how the two engines differ in mass flow requirements.  Depending on when you are doing the upgrade, an AN/APG-67 radar, as used on the F-20 and on the A-50 might well work within the existing mold lines.

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2019, 02:42:07 AM »
Not sure just how much "fatter" the rear fuselage would have to be to accommodate a TF30.  The J57 is a straight turbojet and would need cooling airflow around it while the TF30, as a turbofan, would now need that, save perhaps around the afterburner (could be accommodated by scoops on the rear fuselage as on other aircraft).  You might need to use an A-7 intake as I am not certain of how the two engines differ in mass flow requirements.  Depending on when you are doing the upgrade, an AN/APG-67 radar, as used on the F-20 and on the A-50 might well work within the existing mold lines.

Maybe, though one is still going to need some structural work to fit the TF30 in.

Another option might be to use the TF41 Model 912-B32 as proposed for the F-14B at one point (maybe as part of a bigger what-if scenario where this also comes off).  Reportedly, this engine would have had 17,100lb dry thrust and 27,670lb after burning thrust.  given the TF41 (non-afterburning) variants were used in the USAF A-7s, there is potentially some overlap.  Another twist would be to see what a RN FAA RR Spey engined TF-8A would have looked like, especially around the engine/rear fuselage.  Given the TF41 was developed from the RR Spey, there may also be some commonality there.

Re the radars, either the -66 or -67 would probably work.  Either would also theoretically give the F-8 the ability to use AIM-7s and later AIM-120s which could certainly be interesting.  Whilst the AIM-120 didn't enter service until 1991, an updated F-8 such as theorised here would probably have entered service in the 1920s/80s and thus conceivably still be in service until the 1990s.  Anyway, just a AIM-7 armed one would be interesting - maybe a pair of AIM-7s underwing and 4 AIM-9s... >:D

Of course, if doing this, does one keep the 4 20mm Colt Mk 12 cannons or does one also follow the A-7 and go with a single M61A1 Vulcan?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 02:45:09 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: April 22, 2019, 03:38:49 AM »
BTW, here is a good snapshot of how to understand the various F-8 versions from Tommy H. Thomason's blog:

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2019, 05:18:47 AM »
Some real world proposals:

Canards and no tail:



Smaller, 3-gun versions with J57 and J69:


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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2019, 05:20:53 AM »
Dedicated trainer - beyond just the one-off:

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2019, 05:25:35 AM »
And, now back to whiffing:  some profiles showing what operational Spey engined British Crusaders might have looked like by MihoshiK:





And one, highlighting the changes made:

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2019, 09:28:11 AM »
Nice profile!! helpful to see the original and the changes

Appreciate the different variants on the last page too.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2020, 04:01:54 AM »



All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2020, 10:50:26 AM »
BTW, here is a good snapshot of how to understand the various F-8 versions from Tommy H. Thomason's blog:



Great drawing which very much helps me appreciate the variants differences...
Thanks GTX (and Tommy H. Thomason)

MAD

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2020, 03:30:18 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2020, 01:12:20 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2020, 02:30:10 AM »
Why not?

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: September 29, 2020, 03:36:34 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Vought F-8 Crusader Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: June 17, 2021, 03:24:32 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.