Author Topic: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft  (Read 225999 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #450 on: November 06, 2016, 03:18:58 AM »
If you look closely, you can see the fuselage underneath.  At first glance though it looks like just the wing and engines.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 03:22:04 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #451 on: November 06, 2016, 03:59:54 AM »
I was thinking Photoshop at first but yes, a wee bit of fuselage can been seen. Nicely chosen angle.

Evan: How difficult was it to get the pivot-wing mechanism to work?
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #452 on: November 06, 2016, 04:38:24 AM »
Yep! just a hint of the nose and refueling probe, but there's all the fin and rudders visible

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #453 on: November 06, 2016, 08:16:42 AM »
Evan: How difficult was it to get the pivot-wing mechanism to work?
My understanding is that the pivot-wing mechanism wasn't the biggest challenge.  The nacelle underwent several redesigns in the course from EMD to the current production configuration and getting the tilting aspects correct was a challenge (both the basic mechanism and the system interfaces between nacelle and wing).

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #454 on: November 14, 2016, 08:02:56 AM »
I see the use of asuch MV-22-based ASW platform a good idea - especially its transitional speed!
Although, I think the MV-22 in its present form is too large, heavy, and complex!
I would have liked to have seen a XV-15 derivative in the ASW role!

M.A.D

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #455 on: November 14, 2016, 08:44:46 AM »
By the time you grow the XV-15 to add personnel for the mission and mission equipment, you'd probably be getting close to V-22 size.  V-22 is no more mechanically complex than the XV-15 (I've seen details on both).  I'm thinking of an ASW CMV-22B derivative with a MAD bomb deployable from the rear ramp, or its replacement, sonobuoy chutes on an assembly that replaces the lower ramp, a dipping sonar option through the hell-hole hatch in the center of the cabin, and a couple lightweight air-launched torpedoes on streamlined external racks (similar to the ESSS pylons and racks on the UH-60) back near the main gear (you could carry torpedoes back there because they are gravity-drop weapons, not propelled forward weapons that would interfere with the prop-rotor arc.

If I can find some 1/72 ESSS pylons and racks, I've got most of the rest of what I need to do this in 1/72.

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #456 on: November 14, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
Thinking of self-propelled weapons that fire forewards, could the wing span be increased slightly, to put the propeller arcs further out?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #457 on: November 14, 2016, 10:32:33 AM »
Thinking of self-propelled weapons that fire forewards, could the wing span be increased slightly, to put the propeller arcs further out?
Not easily, as longer wings would need to be fully tested and recertified.  Too, that would somewhat increase the logistics "tail" for the aircraft.  The addition of extra wing fuel tanks for the CMV-22B is an interesting enough effort.  I rather suspect that forward firing weapons will be on "moustache" pylons, much like what was trialed on N204TR, but on both sides.  Gravity drop weapons I could see aft of the prop-rotor arc but only those (save for any automatic weapons you may have firing off the ramp).

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #458 on: November 14, 2016, 01:37:12 PM »
Thinking of self-propelled weapons that fire forewards, could the wing span be increased slightly, to put the propeller arcs further out?
Not easily, as longer wings would need to be fully tested and recertified.  Too, that would somewhat increase the logistics "tail" for the aircraft.  The addition of extra wing fuel tanks for the CMV-22B is an interesting enough effort.  I rather suspect that forward firing weapons will be on "moustache" pylons, much like what was trialed on N204TR, but on both sides.  Gravity drop weapons I could see aft of the prop-rotor arc but only those (save for any automatic weapons you may have firing off the ramp).

I can see another option - low hanging pylons on the fuselage sides.   To put the weapons firing trajectory just outside the rotor arc.

I can see there would be a need for recertification/etc. for longer wings but agree that would be a lot of effort - perhaps for a JV-22C?

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #459 on: November 15, 2016, 03:39:32 AM »
I see the use of asuch MV-22-based ASW platform a good idea - especially its transitional speed!
Although, I think the MV-22 in its present form is too large, heavy, and complex!
I would have liked to have seen a XV-15 derivative in the ASW role!

M.A.D



BA609:






The problem is its not foldy. MV-22s can get really small on deck, this was never built to be on a ship so you run into the same issue that Evan mentioned. By the time you make it shipboard ready, its going to get bigger so it can get smaller ironically.

 :-\

« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 03:41:15 AM by taiidantomcat »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #460 on: November 15, 2016, 05:33:36 AM »
Thinking of self-propelled weapons that fire forewards, could the wing span be increased slightly, to put the propeller arcs further out?
Not easily, as longer wings would need to be fully tested and recertified.  Too, that would somewhat increase the logistics "tail" for the aircraft.  The addition of extra wing fuel tanks for the CMV-22B is an interesting enough effort.  I rather suspect that forward firing weapons will be on "moustache" pylons, much like what was trialed on N204TR, but on both sides.  Gravity drop weapons I could see aft of the prop-rotor arc but only those (save for any automatic weapons you may have firing off the ramp).

I can see another option - low hanging pylons on the fuselage sides.   To put the weapons firing trajectory just outside the rotor arc.

I can see there would be a need for recertification/etc. for longer wings but agree that would be a lot of effort - perhaps for a JV-22C?
Low hanging pylons run the risk of the stores impacting the ground as well as airflow problems over the airframe with those.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #461 on: November 15, 2016, 08:36:08 AM »
From what we're hearing back after the assistance in Nepal, we may eventually see some V-22 variant in Indian service.

Offline LemonJello

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #462 on: November 15, 2016, 08:36:57 PM »

BA609:







These make me want to find a Lear or similar jet in 1/48 to mate with a 1/72 V-22 for version 2 of my gunship/escort...also need to add another 1/48 V-22 to the stash to rebuild my AV-22.

My solution for weapons carriage in this next iteration would be an internal rotary bomb bay/rack system to fire down the centerline of the fuselage.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #463 on: November 16, 2016, 01:51:15 AM »


Darn, didn't even find the coolest picture to post
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #464 on: November 16, 2016, 03:23:24 AM »


Bell V-280 prototype in progress shot
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #465 on: November 16, 2016, 03:24:12 AM »


Darn, didn't even find the coolest picture to post


Oh, now THAT is sexy.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #466 on: November 19, 2016, 04:21:28 AM »


Four MV-22 Ospreys with Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 261 follow a KC-130J with Detachment A, Marine Aerial Refueler Transport Squadron 352, from Helmand province, Afghanistan, to the USS Iwo Jima in the Arabian Sea, on September 6, 2012.
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #467 on: November 28, 2016, 11:17:07 PM »
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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #468 on: November 29, 2016, 02:23:17 AM »
Fictional artwork only or is it a real project?
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #469 on: November 29, 2016, 03:30:15 AM »
Pure fiction. Its a Star Wars concept artist just free thinking.  :) looks damn nice though  :-*
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Offline Kerick

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #470 on: November 29, 2016, 10:44:40 AM »
Took a long time to get the V-22 to work right but it seems to be working out well for the Marines. Marines should pick up the A-10s the USAF doesn't want anymore and use them for Osprey escorts.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #471 on: November 30, 2016, 01:23:44 AM »
Took a long time to get the V-22 to work right but it seems to be working out well for the Marines. Marines should pick up the A-10s the USAF doesn't want anymore and use them for Osprey escorts.

They are getting more work than they know what to do with:
 

"Next in line for readiness recovery is the V-22 Osprey – which reached initial operational capability only nine years ago but is “the most in-demand airplane in the world, and we’re loving it to death.”

Davis said this fleet has been operating at surge capacity since it was fielded and shows no sign of slowing down. Readiness has degraded because the tiltrotors are being used faster than ready forces can be generated. In theory, for every V-22 squadron deployed in a Marine Expeditionary Unit, one is just getting home and another is training to go out next. With three MEUs out at any given time, the Marines would need nine squadrons to sustain this 1:2 deployment-to-dwell ratio.

However, the V-22s are now also used in land-based Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Forces (MAGTFs) in U.S. Central Command and U.S. Africa Command – meaning five squadrons are deployed and 15 would be needed to sustain.

“I’ve got 14. For a long time I had 13,” Davis said.
“So what that means is, we were moving maintainers from unit to unit to unit. Our [deployment] tempo is 1:2, or less than 1:2 in V-22. Going aboard the ship, going to Special Purpose MAGTF, basically we have no breathing space for our pilots or our maintainers in V-22. We have been at surge since 2007. … The airplane’s been incredible, just been incredible, but we’re basically outstripping our ability… to sustain it with spare parts and train the maintainers.”

The deployment tempo has not only taken its toll on the planes themselves, but also the personnel. There are no V-22 captains at the Expeditionary Warfare School and none serving as forward air controllers – both great career advancement opportunities – because they’re so busy operating at a surge rate.

The Defense Secretary recently approved a decision to cut the number of V-22s in the Special Purpose MAGTF- Africa from 12 to six, as well as cutting the number of C-130Js from four to two, giving the Marines a little more capacity for proper training at home.

“They’re still standing up squadrons and trying to make a move to Hawaii and everything else,” Davis said of the V-22 community.
“So we’re going to pull back a little bit from our overseas commitment in order to plus-up our training base and basically give us some breathing room.”

Any emerging requirements that can’t be met by the half-sized Osprey squadron in the Special Purpose MAGTF would be taken on by the nearest MEU, he said.

The service is still developing its V-22 readiness recovery plan now and will implement changes as needed, Davis said, but he’s optimistic that a slower operational tempo will help. Marine Helicopter Squadron (HMX) 1, the presidential helicopter squadron, is prioritized for obvious reasons. It has a stable base of maintainers with a stable workload, and it gets all the spare parts it needs in a timely fashion. As a result, HMX-1 had a 94 percent readiness rate over the last six months and only a 2.6 percent not mission capable- supply rate – a tenth of what the rest of the V-22 fleet saw – showing that the planes work just fine when properly cared for."

- from USNI

A-10s were offered and rejected by the marines in the early 90s same story with the army. Army citing costs, Marines that it can't be ship based.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 01:28:21 AM by taiidantomcat »
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Offline Kerick

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #472 on: November 30, 2016, 01:56:17 AM »
Good to hear the V-22 is in demand.
I was half joking about the A-10s but the Marines need an escort that flies faster than their Cobras and can stick around longer than a jet. That pretty much leaves A-10s or a gunship V-22. I hope the Air afore and the Marines are supporting each other in the 'Stan.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #473 on: November 30, 2016, 03:53:33 AM »
why buy the cow(hog) when you are getting the milk free?
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Offline KiwiZac

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Re: Tilt-Rotor Aircraft
« Reply #474 on: November 30, 2016, 04:39:34 AM »
a gunship V-22.
I seem to remember a very nice rendition of that either here or at What If...

...not to mention the upcoming Bell V-280 Valor.
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