Modelling > Engineering Dept.

English Electric Canberra and Hawker hunter

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kengeorge:
Earlier on today I was perusing the Secret projects website and found this:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/keeping-the-hunter-and-canberra-longer.35182/page-2

This led me to an idea, which is a dangerous thing to do at my age. So here's my idea, what engine(s) could replace the RR Avon in the Hunter and Canberra, with a timeframe of mid/late 1070's? I know the Avon has the following specs  Length: 3,200 mm (126 inches) Diameter: 910 mm (35.7 inches) Weight: 1,310 kg (2,890 lb. Power was between 7,350 lbf (32,700 N) to 12,690 lbf (56,400) dry.

I'll go further, the reason is, upgrading both aircraft with modernish avionics, new wing skins, the ability to carry an increased variety of ordnance, to provide cost-effective aircraft for friendly countries that couldn't afford the more expensive kit used by others, to counter Soviet influences

So what do you think of my idea and what are your opinions?

Over to you

Ken

Old Wombat:
Mid/late 1070's? ???

You're looking at a horse for speed, or an ox for power, or a mule for reliability (although they can be twitchy on start-up). ;)

Jeffry Fontaine:
 J57 or the TF33 would be my guess for the American B-57 Canberra.  The main issue being where the engines are mounted limits rather quickly the size of the engine to replace the original engines.  For a British Canberra the same physical contraints would apply. 

apophenia:
Something to keep in mind on Canberra re-engining options is that the Avons were mounted in front of the main spar. Aft of that spar is a simple jet pipe. That means that re-engining the Canberra with larger-diameter (compared with the original Avons) turbofans would be comparatively simple (as shown by Jeff's TF33 example from the RB-57F).

The obvious Avon replacement option would be the Rolls-Royce Spey. Putting out slightly more than the 7,400 lbf RA.7 Avon Mk109 turbojet would the civil RB.168 Mk 555 (9,850 lbf). But the USAF example shows that the airframe could absorb much more power.  This suggests that the military RB.168 Mk 250 (12,160 lbf) would be a better option - which also gives you engine commonality with the Nimrod MR.1.

kengeorge:
Thank you for the replies, I'm thinking, purely academically, replacing the RR Avon 207 with the Avon 301 used by the  Lightning, as it has a bit more power. Ordnance wise, upgrading to Republic of Singapore Air Force standard, Six underwing pylons and a centreline pylon with a twin Bomb rack (2x500lb). Air-to-air, maybe Redtop or Firestreak AAM, as offering Sidewinders may cause an issue with US weapons being used by Goverments not that friendly to the US.

As For the Canberra, the Spey is a good call. However, as Avons are ahead of the forward main spar, would there be an issue in centre of gravity shifting rearwards? Would replacing the Canberra forward fuselage with a B-57 style FF counteract the CG problem?

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