Author Topic: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas  (Read 24065 times)

Offline sequoiaranger

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Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« on: February 09, 2012, 01:07:32 AM »
Here is the "pre-Hellcat", the high-performance follow-on to the Grumman Duck (Grumman Gander) that the US Navy decided to make into a Wildcat successor by deleting the pedastal float and extra crew. Camo is inspired by M.C. Escher's "Day and Night" (right side is opposite colors--blue "birds",and worms, on gray background):

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:10:51 AM by sequoiaranger »
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 02:33:42 AM »
What if the pacific war went longer...or missiles entered the USN inventory earlier:



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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 04:07:07 AM »
Now that looks interesting Greg, because these below look just like them.  These can be found in any Hawk Gloster Javelin kit

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 05:34:55 AM »
...and I was gonna holler "Photoshop!" until I saw pix #2 and #3 downloading....     :o

Amazing.    We get better JMN stuff on sites like these sometimes.


kwyxdxLg5T

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 06:33:02 AM »
So what are they Greg, I can't find anything about it on the net

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 07:23:03 AM »
It should be the AAM-N-2 Sparrow I air to air missile.  During testing and development it was carried by a variety of unusual aircraft including the Hellcat.  Another image of that missile is available at this link from Wikipedia: AAM-N-2 Sparrow I (AIM-7A) Air to Air Missile, though the aircraft in the image at that link is the F3D (F-10) Skynight. 

Andreas Parsch has some additional information at this link from his Designation Systems web page: Raytheon AAM-N-2,3,6/AIM-101/AIM-7/RIM-7 Sparrow
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 08:27:26 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 08:31:10 AM »
Going by the forward fin shape, definitely a development article for the Sparrow One.  I'd thought they might be Martin Orioles but the fin shape is wrong.  The article linked in the Falcon thread covers a lot of early US effort on AAMs.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 09:51:37 AM »
I know this is going a tad off-topic, but was the Javelin envisioned to be armed with the Sparrow I ? The Hawk Javelin kit has three under each wing and the version that the kit depicts is actually one of the prototypes, not the Mk.I as it says on the box.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2012, 06:46:53 AM »
Hellcat bashed W/ Corsair?

Hellcat bashed with Spitfire (is this blasphemy to even bring up??)

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2012, 04:23:28 PM »
Hellcat bashed W/ Corsair?

Hellcat bashed with Spitfire (is this blasphemy to even bring up??)

Take a lot more then that to be blasphemous around here.
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Offline sequoiaranger

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Blasphemy??
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 10:37:26 PM »
Being called "Blasphemous" by JMN's is our *GOAL* here in whif-land!!  ;D
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2012, 03:48:38 AM »
Random play:

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2012, 03:50:17 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2012, 03:50:51 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2012, 05:19:56 AM »
Almost forgot this infamous one:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2014, 11:50:53 PM »
Sleek Hellcat



Tricycle and longer Hellcat


Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2014, 11:11:05 PM »
Primary fighter of the RAN FAA from 1945 until 1956, operating primarily from the RANs two Implacable class Armoured Fleet Carriers but also from the Light Fleet Carriers at times.  The aircraft were among substantial numbers of brand new USN and BPF aircraft prepositioned in Australia during 1944/45, surplus to needs post war and uneconomical to return to the US, that were gifted to Australia and New Zealand. The Hellcat (along with the Avenger) was selected for service over the Bearcat due to being available in far greater numbers therefore able to be maintained more affordably using spares cannibalised from unused airframes and engines and over the Corsair as it fit in the 14' hanger decks of the two fleet carriers.

A single squadron of Bearcats was maintained for dissimilar combat, advanced training and fleet support roles at HMAS Albatross from 1945.  Another two squadrons were formed in 1950 for service in Korea serving along side the Hellcats and Avengers on board the Fleet Carriers during that conflict.  Due to lack of spares the two combat squadrons were stood down in 1954.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2014, 02:44:13 AM »
So, something like these…(From Southern Sea Eagles):



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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 03:21:53 AM »
Got a 1/48 Hellcat in the stash, was one of the 1st purchases with the RAM in mind.

I like the 2nd of Mav's profiles, I may use that as inspiration for its scheme. :D
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 05:19:39 AM »
I was thinking for an excuse to do a Hellcat and a Bearcat in a post war FAA Extra Dark Sea Gray over Sky scheme for Korea or after.  I have a decal sheet for multiple Sea Furies I thought I could use.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2014, 06:06:30 AM »
Though no photographs exist, only drawings, the F6F and F8F were also used by the RCN:



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Offline finsrin

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2014, 02:10:55 PM »
Tricycle and longer Hellcat - much interesting :)

Hellcat-Bearcat under wing or wing tip Sidewinder - hmmm

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2014, 08:21:03 PM »
Actually now you mention it that could be a mod used to keep older axil deck carriers effective for longer although would a Hellcat / Bearcat struggle keeping a modern jet in view long enough to get tone?

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2014, 12:52:55 AM »
I have actually physically started my Hellcat!

I was going to tryout the airbrush on it but think I may stick with the brush for the time being just to try and get it finished.  Still toying with the back story but it is an ex-lend lease F6F-5 in service with the RAN FAA flying from a RAN Implacable class armoured fleet carrier over Korea in 1950-1.  When did Roo Roundels come in?  Do I need to make it 1952-3?

Saw a 1/72 Eduard Hellcat in the local hobby shop, is that a better kit than the Italeri one?  Tempted to do a second one RAN FAA Hellcat anyway, an all Oxford Blue one.

Does anyone do a decent Bearcat in 1/72?  Would like to have a Bearcat along side my Hellcat and Sea Fury as well as a Firefly and an Avenger, maybe.

Rough story, war starts, RAN goes with what they have which is Hellcats and Avengers on HMAS Indefatigable.  Bearcat squadron is worked up by time of second deployment, HMAS Implacable, and supplements Hellcats allowing them to concentrate on CAS along with Fireflies obtained to beef up strike capability.  Third deployment is HMAS Sydney operating Sea Furies and Fireflies.  RAN has six carriers, two armoured fleet carriers replacing the County class heavy cruisers, two Majestic and two Colossus replacing the four pre war light cruisers.  Each carrier is planned to be escorted by a new RN type Cruiser/Destroyer and a pair of fleet destroyers / fast frigates however existing cruisers, destroyers, the battle cruiser HMAS Renown and the battleship HMAS Duke of York are being used and upgraded in the interim.  The RAN has basically been gifted the equivalent of two fleet units by the RN to be an integral part of the British Pacific Fleet and to remain the prime bastion of the Empire in SEA and the Pacific post war.  It is unsustainable but maintained through extensive use of reserves and assistance from NZ with additional trained manpower.  Most of the fleet is expected to be maintained in reserve with the exception of the carriers and destroyers but is reactivated with the onset of Korea and in expectation of a larger conflict with the USSR.

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 03:25:57 AM »
RoG (Revell-Germany) does a 1/72 F8F but IIRC its an old re-pop but still good and the only one available.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2014, 04:28:27 AM »
RoG (Revell-Germany) does a 1/72 F8F but IIRC its an old re-pop but still good and the only one available.

The Frog kit is identical to the Revell one (got one of each and the pic below is of the Monogram one) but there is also a couple of Sword kits, tall fin and short fin versions (got one of each of those too)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 04:30:24 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2014, 04:36:19 AM »
Forgot about the Sword kits!  :-X  Are they still in production?
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2014, 05:12:07 AM »
Don't know Cliffy, but there's also an Art Model injection kit, and an Attack Model resin one in 1/72  (Hannants have both in stock)

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2014, 06:09:13 AM »
Thanks guys, any idea what the Eduard F6F is like?  Never tried an Eduard kit.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2014, 09:01:14 AM »
Don't know Cliffy, but there's also an Art Model injection kit, and an Attack Model resin one in 1/72  (Hannants have both in stock)


You can get the Art Model F8F for $10.05 USD over at Modeslua.com. Ivan has good prices but you need to login to see his final discounted pricing.

I have 2 copies of the F8F. I can provide sprue shots if you to want to see it.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2014, 09:13:08 AM »
I have actually physically started my Hellcat!

I was going to tryout the airbrush on it but think I may stick with the brush for the time being just to try and get it finished.  Still toying with the back story but it is an ex-lend lease F6F-5 in service with the RAN FAA flying from a RAN Implacable class armoured fleet carrier over Korea in 1950-1.  When did Roo Roundels come in?  Do I need to make it 1952-3?

Saw a 1/72 Eduard Hellcat in the local hobby shop, is that a better kit than the Italeri one?  Tempted to do a second one RAN FAA Hellcat anyway, an all Oxford Blue one.

Does anyone do a decent Bearcat in 1/72?  Would like to have a Bearcat along side my Hellcat and Sea Fury as well as a Firefly and an Avenger, maybe.

Rough story, war starts, RAN goes with what they have which is Hellcats and Avengers on HMAS Indefatigable.  Bearcat squadron is worked up by time of second deployment, HMAS Implacable, and supplements Hellcats allowing them to concentrate on CAS along with Fireflies obtained to beef up strike capability.  Third deployment is HMAS Sydney operating Sea Furies and Fireflies.  RAN has six carriers, two armoured fleet carriers replacing the County class heavy cruisers, two Majestic and two Colossus replacing the four pre war light cruisers.  Each carrier is planned to be escorted by a new RN type Cruiser/Destroyer and a pair of fleet destroyers / fast frigates however existing cruisers, destroyers, the battle cruiser HMAS Renown and the battleship HMAS Duke of York are being used and upgraded in the interim.  The RAN has basically been gifted the equivalent of two fleet units by the RN to be an integral part of the British Pacific Fleet and to remain the prime bastion of the Empire in SEA and the Pacific post war.  It is unsustainable but maintained through extensive use of reserves and assistance from NZ with additional trained manpower.  Most of the fleet is expected to be maintained in reserve with the exception of the carriers and destroyers but is reactivated with the onset of Korea and in expectation of a larger conflict with the USSR.

IIRC the Roo roundel was introduced about 1955.  I believe the RAN only followed later, about 1956?  It was used only initially on the fuselage and then later wings, so it was possible to see a mix at least initially.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2014, 02:25:08 PM »
Thanks for the info on the Bearcats and Roundels.  May hang off the Bearcat for a while and see what Trumpeter do ;) rather than chase one now.  I have the option of meat balls or roos on the decals but may opt for a post war patrol because the roos do look better.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2014, 08:16:15 PM »
Fury & Firefly ex-Sydney - note the Brit style roundels.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2014, 10:54:20 PM »
Red dot it is then  :(

Offline jcf

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2014, 12:16:57 AM »
Push the roo back to whenever you want, it's yer fantasy.

The Canadian maple leaf roundel was actually approved in
1924 but not used on aircraft until 1946, although it was
used on the ensign from 1941. Also an entry in the August
1941 Air Trails CAVU 'aviation gossip column' about
a visit earlier that year to the Little Norway training facility
and Malton makes note that the RCAF roundel at the base
entrance had been changed from red-dot to maple leaf
center.

So perhaps in another timeline the Canucks went ahead and
started using the maple leaf roundel in 1941 and once the
Oz and NZ pilots saw it they started agitating for their own
identity and the roo and Kiwi appeared sooner.

 :icon_fsm:


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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2014, 02:03:10 AM »
 ;) sounds like a plan

Actually taking it a step further you could have a blue roo inside a blue ring for the SWP and SEA during WWII, and the same for a Kiwi.  Lo vis 4-5 decades early.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 03:18:59 PM by Volkodav »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2014, 09:17:00 AM »
Just a thought after reading BSP3, how about a Bearcat (tall-tail) with a Centaurus and a 5-bladed prop?  There was at least one design that looking rather close to that.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2014, 04:52:26 AM »
the Bearcat looks nice in 3-tone navy scheme ...

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2014, 06:10:39 AM »
Just a thought after reading BSP3, how about a Bearcat (tall-tail) with a Centaurus and a 5-bladed prop?  There was at least one design that looking rather close to that.


Like this Evan?







Fairey Catfish MK.I

Kit is from Art Model. Centaurus from Ozmods and prop from a PM Sea Fury.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2014, 02:13:36 PM »
Yeah, that would come pretty close to what I was thinking of.  You could find some interesting markings for that.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2015, 02:59:12 AM »
Random idea:  Italian Grumman Hellcat post war operating from finished aircraft carrier Aquila
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Offline Cliffy B

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2015, 08:17:14 AM »
You got me thinking Greg...  How about Japan being allowed carriers postwar to help against the Soviets.  Have Hellcats and Bearcats flying from some during Korea?  Could make for some interesting markings.
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2015, 10:03:46 AM »
Maybe in scheme similar to their Grumman Avengers:

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Offline perttime

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2015, 05:05:09 PM »
how about a Bearcat (tall-tail) with a Centaurus and a 5-bladed prop?  There was at least one design that looking rather close to that.
That would be the British version of the rare Super Bearcat with a Wright R-3350, then.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2015, 07:53:11 PM »
Random idea:  Italian Grumman Hellcat post war operating from finished aircraft carrier Aquila

Or the US, concerned about Soviet nuclear attacks destroying land based air power, funds the completion or upgrade of as many foreign aircraft carriers as possible together with completing all the remaining Essex class carriers and supplying to as many NATO and closely aligned nations as possible under an expanded MAP.  Rather than being scraped or converted to drones the Hellcats go on to serve with many nations as their first carrier fighter.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2015, 02:28:14 AM »
I'm mainly thinking of a Hellcat in something like a cross between these schemes:


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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2015, 03:06:58 AM »
Random idea:  RNZAF Hellcat instead of Corsair...
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Offline Kerick

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2015, 04:56:42 AM »
Random idea:  Italian Grumman Hellcat post war operating from finished aircraft carrier Aquila

Or the US, concerned about Soviet nuclear attacks destroying land based air power, funds the completion or upgrade of as many foreign aircraft carriers as possible together with completing all the remaining Essex class carriers and supplying to as many NATO and closely aligned nations as possible under an expanded MAP.  Rather than being scraped or converted to drones the Hellcats go on to serve with many nations as their first carrier fighter.

Hellcat might have been a better choice for first time carrier pilots instead of the Corsair. Corsair could be pretty tricky on landing approach IIRC.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2015, 12:34:05 AM »
Random idea:  RNZAF Hellcat instead of Corsair...

An ANZAC carrier air wing off HMAS Indefatigable as part of the BPF in 1945?

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2015, 02:58:28 AM »
Hmmm...that could be an interesting scenario...
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2015, 03:42:10 PM »
There's a drawing of a Sabrecat on the first page of this thread - but I prefer the Bearcat based ones that I've seen posted elsewhere...

Like this one:



https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/8967143220/in/pool-1859736@N23

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2015, 03:54:02 PM »
Oh, that is tasty. :)
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2015, 05:07:30 AM »
A different looking Hellcat - in NMF and with spinner:

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2015, 06:24:48 AM »
XF6F-1 with R-2600, later re-engined with R-2800 as XF6F-3, and then, following a crash, as the XF6F-4
with turbocharged R-2800.

The F6F was originally designed to use the R-2600, which is one of the reasons the cowling is so large,
the Wright being larger in diameter than the P & W.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 08:59:21 AM by jcf »
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2015, 06:31:11 AM »
A different looking Hellcat - in NMF and with spinner:




That sure gives it a different look! I wonder if that was a company bird or some kind of test aircraft.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2015, 06:44:23 AM »
As Jon has said above, this is the Grumman XF6F-1, prototype of the F6F Hellcat fighter.  The first Hellcat was powered by a  R-2600-10 Twin Cyclone  radial engine, which produced 1,700 horsepower. Beginning with the second prototype the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engine became the standard power plant.

Here is another shot:



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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2015, 06:32:30 AM »
Odd thought, FM-2S "Wildcatfish II" with either streamlined pylons for twin floats or a singe centerline float with streamlined pylon and two small outrigger floats.  I rather favor the single float concept, particularly if you could do the structure so that landing loads pass into the main landing gear attach points.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2015, 07:50:03 AM »
Looking at little like a cross between this:



and this:



I give you the real world Edo XOSE-1:

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2017, 01:15:33 PM »
Wildcat powered by Allison engine.


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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2017, 01:57:37 PM »
Allison Wildcat sure looks faster than with original radial.
Problem with prop to deck clearance and increased length on deck and elevators.
But sure looks faster.  Nice rendition  :smiley:
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 03:28:11 PM by finsrin »

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2018, 01:39:20 AM »
Something I found yesterday:

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2018, 02:00:09 AM »
Needs a revamped and streamlined set of struts for the floats, but the basic concept looks good.  Kit bash of a Hellcat and a Wildcatfish conversion?

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2018, 02:24:34 AM »
Interestingly, the Hellcat's AUW is almost the same as a Blenheim, so floats about the same size would be about right. And the floats in the drawing look a bit like Edo floats too ---

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2019, 03:33:47 AM »
Random idea:  RNZAF Hellcat instead of Corsair - using this sort of scheme:

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2019, 03:51:27 AM »
How about.....

Early USN 3 tone scheme.  I know the sharkmouth is wrong, but I've always loved it on the USN Hellcats


Late scheme.  Repainted in RNZAF Ocean Blue and Sky Grey.  Used on some of the late war Corsairs, before the Overall USN Sea Blue models began to arrive


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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2019, 01:27:06 AM »
Love the lower one best. :smiley:
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2019, 02:03:16 AM »
Been a long term fan of the light carrier / fighter carrier / aircraft cruiser.  The interest kicked off when Australia was buying Invincible from the UK then the Falklands war, I became fascinated with the concept of small to very small carriers operating a small but useful group of fighters and ASW aircraft.  The Vosper Thornycroft Harrier Carrier was a favorite, as was the Chakri Naruebet and the various RN Escort Cruiser sketches from the 1960s.

In the late 40s the RN planned to replace their cruiser squadrons on colonial station with light carriers supported by a smaller number of cruisers, operating fighters, strike fighters and ASW aircraft.  These were to be the Colossus and Majestic classes, a type powered by a half a Crown Colony cruiser propulsion set, then there was the USN CVL, based on a light cruiser hull.  There were multiple prewar studies in a number of countries on aircraft cruisers etc. Hermes design was based on a cruiser hull form, then there was the Washington treaty clause which excluded carriers with a standard displacement below 10000tons from being counted against the signatories total carrier tonnages.  Overall I am surprised, except for the financial restrictions of the time, that there weren't a significant number of just under 10000 ton carriers built pre WWII.

Anyway, the reason I've been rabbiting on about light carriers, in particular, fast light, cruiser sized carriers, is the logical aircraft to operate from them would be pretty much any pre-war naval fighter but during the war, the Wildcat and post war, the Bearcat.  What I'm thinking of doing is building a Sea Gladiator, a Wildcat and my Bearcat as aircraft operated from my wiff RAN prewar light carrier class based on the County class cruiser hull.

Offline kim margosein

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2020, 10:52:36 AM »
The   problem is when you make the carriers smaller, you lose aircraft faster than you lose tonnage.  In the late 40s, aircraft were getting larger, denser and faster.  This means larger decks for operations, more room needed belowdecks, more room for fuel for the much thirstier jets, etc.  And if you really want a 10k ton carrier, there are plenty of WWII surplus ones that still have the new ship smell. 

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2020, 10:30:49 PM »
The   problem is when you make the carriers smaller, you lose aircraft faster than you lose tonnage.  In the late 40s, aircraft were getting larger, denser and faster.  This means larger decks for operations, more room needed belowdecks, more room for fuel for the much thirstier jets, etc.  And if you really want a 10k ton carrier, there are plenty of WWII surplus ones that still have the new ship smell.

True but prewar the finding was that a flight deck length of 600' was the effective minimum required, but anything over 800' resulted in diminishing returns in terms of increased aircraft numbers.  Also it was determined that for a given cost a larger number of small carriers could effectively operate a greater number of aircraft, its only when the price of escorts is factored in, if the smaller carriers were dispersed instead of operated together.

Other factors that became obvious during the war were larger carriers can operate aircraft in more severe weather conditions and larger carrier are more survivable, irrespective of armouring.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #69 on: January 18, 2020, 12:43:53 PM »
For an outrageous bit of over-powering, how about a R4360 installed in a Bearcat?  I suspect the tail surfaces would need to be moved farther aft for weight and balance purposes, but it could be interesting to see with either a 5-bladed prop or counter-rotating 3-bladed props (as on first XP-72).

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2020, 02:47:04 AM »
Would take "Rare Bear" to a whole new level:

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2020, 02:59:56 AM »
Would take "Rare Bear" to a whole new level:

That would be bordering on the erotic  :-*
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2020, 03:15:26 AM »
Think Rare Bear crossed with Furias (latter below):

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2020, 03:25:43 AM »
Think Rare Bear crossed with Furias (latter below):

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2020, 03:26:13 AM »
But would it make it faster  ???

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2020, 03:31:17 AM »
Well, theoretically the power:weight ratio for the R4360 would be better but it also depends upon what other changes would be necessary especially to the airframe.
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2020, 06:08:06 AM »
Here's a comparison of the standard F4U R-2800 installation and the R-4360 installation
of the F4U-1 WM testbed.



Note that the length from the firewall to the front of the cowling is pretty much the same,
the installation used a standard cowling with a new section added to the rear.

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #77 on: January 19, 2020, 06:12:26 AM »
Interesting Jon, where did they position all the equipment that's behind the R-2800 in the F4U-1?

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2020, 06:25:59 AM »
The engine had a single-stage variable speed supercharger which met the requirement
of high-speed at low level so all the ductwork, intercoolers etc. for the two-stage engine
were eliminated, the oil tank was moved to behind the cockpit.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2020, 10:39:26 AM »
For an outrageous bit of over-powering, how about a R4360 installed in a Bearcat?  I suspect the tail surfaces would need to be moved farther aft for weight and balance purposes, but it could be interesting to see with either a 5-bladed prop or counter-rotating 3-bladed props (as on first XP-72).


My take on an R-4360 Bearcat: http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg164859#msg164859
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #80 on: April 27, 2020, 03:08:14 AM »
Kind of odd to see a Hellcat on grass:



Click on image to see larger version.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 03:21:45 AM by GTX_Admin »
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2020, 10:16:39 PM »
Kind of odd to see a Hellcat on grass:

It doesn't look stoned

;)
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2020, 03:21:23 AM »
 ;D
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2020, 03:02:14 AM »
Something different:

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Offline Sport25ing

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2020, 05:15:45 AM »
All from Comrade Harps in WhatIfModelers (apart from last two, from Dizzyfugu):










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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2021, 04:00:17 AM »
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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2021, 03:00:10 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline perttime

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Re: Grumman Wildcat/Hellcat/Bearcat Ideas
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2021, 12:36:28 PM »

That reminds me of a Finnish story about the Brewster Buffalo, AKA the Gentleman's Travelling Airplane. The pilot flew with two passengers, a large dog, and a good amount of luggage in the fuselage.