Author Topic: High-performance Seaplanes  (Read 5865 times)

Offline dy031101

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High-performance Seaplanes
« on: May 25, 2016, 11:48:25 AM »
Recently I'm starting to toy with the idea of derivatives of seaplane fighters......





...... except the toying primarily concerns with "high-performance" by modern day standard:



This one, said to be Lockheed Hydrostar project, came to my attention:







I am interested in thinking of an electronic warfare variant in the same vein as how EA-18G is derived from the Super Hornet.  Having said that, even though I am not entirely sure how jamming and emission detection hardwares are supposed to work, I don't think I should mount them under the wings......

Would mounting the receivers and transmitters for those hardwares over the wings lead to complications?  I am under the impression that these receivers and transmitters should have a "line of sight" of sorts to all-around below the aircraft (unlike, say, missiles, which only really need forward), no?

Or would it be do-able to try incorporating the receivers and transmitters into some kind of wingtip floats (better water-proofing than external pods taken straight from land-based planes?)?  Or are there other alternative placements for those receivers and transmitters?

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:08:37 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Weaver

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 04:10:45 PM »
Yeah, you don't have to be an expert to figure out that electronics and water don't mix...

The primary need for field of view is in the horizontal plane: if your sensors need to look straight downward to point at the radar, you are WAY too close to it! You could do a lot of that from a pod on the tip of the fin, and you could also have overwing pods, mounting them above the wing on relatively tall pylons so that they have some downwards view or the wing edges.

The better solution for all electronics is to put it completely inside the fuselage with the aerials behind dielectric panels. The only reason for adopting external pods in the real world is that SEAD aircraft are adaptions of other types. A flying boat has a naturally large hull volume for buoyancy anyway, so it would be easier to make them internal.
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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 07:36:27 PM »



I want to make this one as a land-based fighter!

Nice finds.

Offline dy031101

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 11:36:43 PM »
You could do a lot of that from a pod on the tip of the fin......

Tailfin-tip antenna pod is definitely on.

The better solution for all electronics is to put it completely inside the fuselage with the aerials behind dielectric panels. The only reason for adopting external pods in the real world is that SEAD aircraft are adaptions of other types. A flying boat has a naturally large hull volume for buoyancy anyway, so it would be easier to make them internal.

I wonder if there would be an internal weapons bay of some sort for me to mess around with in the base design, too, seeing that even over-wing pylons would likely have been subjected to some water during water takeoff and landing, and the artist impressions don't show any external weapon carriage, either.

And then, if some weapons for self-defense or anti-radiation missiles are still desired, throw in a pair of enclosed missile pods over the wings.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 12:04:57 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Weaver

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2016, 02:40:18 AM »
I wouldn't worry too much about spray and the like hitting overwing stores, after all, they have to fly through rain, right? It's being completely immersed in salt water after a landing that rules out underwing stores, plus the difficulty of loading them, of course.

Another thing you could do for sensors is have them retractable or movable. For instance, you might have sensor pods that hang below the wingtip in fight, but which then rotate 180 deg to be above the wing for landing and take-off.

Generally speaking any kind of maintenance procedure is more difficult to do from a boat alongside a landed seaplane than it is in a hangar on land. The hangar doesn't bob up and down, and if you drop a spanner in there, you don't need a diver to get it back for you. Now extend that situation to include the loading of heavy, dangerous, expensive ordnance.... ???
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2016, 08:36:47 AM »





I can see a Ryan Fireball in this one

Offline Acree

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2016, 11:56:41 AM »

Offline Volkodav

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2016, 07:55:02 PM »
I can see a Typhoon, Tempest or Firebrand in that configuration, or how about a Wyvern or Skyraider?

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2016, 08:46:25 PM »
One of the big problems I see with high-performance jet seaplanes is that they either have to lose their weapon-carrying capacity or their high-performance in order to be seaplanes.

A high-performance jet can't have floats hanging down from it & keep its performance but, if you have the floats fold/retract into the fuselage/wings you lose a lot of weapons-carrying capacity.

Of course, as a civilian rich-boys'-toy, the loss of weapons capacity doesn't matter. ;)
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Offline dy031101

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2016, 10:03:13 PM »
One of the big problems I see with high-performance jet seaplanes is that they either have to lose their weapon-carrying capacity or their high-performance in order to be seaplanes.

On the side, F2Y is said to be planned to be armed with 20mm cannons and FFARs- does anyone know where those weapons are supposed to be?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2016, 08:56:50 AM »
I can see a Typhoon, Tempest or Firebrand in that configuration, or how about a Wyvern or Skyraider?

Interesting thing about Typhoons and Tempests, is their max' TOW is the same as a Bolingbroke ---- and here's a pic of a Bolingbroke on floats.

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2016, 10:04:01 AM »
One of the big problems I see with high-performance jet seaplanes is that they either have to lose their weapon-carrying capacity or their high-performance in order to be seaplanes.

A high-performance jet can't have floats hanging down from it & keep its performance but, if you have the floats fold/retract into the fuselage/wings you lose a lot of weapons-carrying capacity.


Which is why all of the high-performance jet seaplanes built; fighter, bomber and transport, have been flying boats.   ;D

The Convair SeaDart used retractable hydro-ski(s), not a float, ditto the various unbuilt concepts like the Lockheed design
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Offline Kerick

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 11:33:56 PM »
Was the Seadart area ruled? It doesn't look like it. That wold be a factor in fuselage design.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2016, 11:56:33 PM »
Merge the Seadart with a F-106?
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Offline dy031101

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2016, 11:05:54 AM »
Merge the Seadart with a F-106?

Redesigning the FFAR batteries to fire Stinger missiles (assuming Stinger missiles are suitable for use by supersonic aircraft) and putting pylons over the wings for radar-guided AAMs?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 11:55:36 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2016, 11:24:08 AM »
One of the big problems I see with high-performance jet seaplanes is that they either have to lose their weapon-carrying capacity or their high-performance in order to be seaplanes.

A high-performance jet can't have floats hanging down from it & keep its performance but, if you have the floats fold/retract into the fuselage/wings you lose a lot of weapons-carrying capacity.

Of course, as a civilian rich-boys'-toy, the loss of weapons capacity doesn't matter. ;)
I keep thinking of a sketch from an old Air Trails of what looked like a cross between a Grumman Panther and a streamlined version of a Grumman Duck.  Be interesting to see how that could be worked out with either a Panther or a Cougar.

Offline Weaver

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2016, 04:07:34 PM »
Edo Model 150 jet fighter proposal:



Based on EDO 142 hydro-ski research plane, only ever built as a 1/5th scale wind tunnel model:





All info & pics from Secret Projects thread here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7597.msg264754.html#msg264754
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Offline Weaver

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2016, 04:13:35 PM »
Convair Skate jet seaplane fighter proposal:


From here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4588644942


From Pinterest.

Convair model collection circa 1952 including Skate plus other interesting projects:


From here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5708.0
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2016, 06:38:22 PM »
Some very pretty looking airplanes.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2016, 06:48:24 PM »
Merge the Seadart with a F-106?

Redesigning the FFAR batteries to fire Stinger missiles (assuming Stinger missiles are suitable for use by supersonic aircraft) and putting pylons over the wings for radar-guided AAMs?

There are a stack of guidance options for rockets these days, I have often wondered if there may be a return to retractable rocket packs for dual role air to air, air to ground high velocity rockets with laser or MM wave radar guidance.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2017, 07:07:07 PM »
Found this on Facebook:



Looks to have a silver finish or a very weathered gray.

Source: Under the right wing.  ;)
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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2017, 01:54:35 AM »
 :)
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Offline Story

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Re: High-performance Seaplanes
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2021, 09:54:39 PM »
As good a place as any for this, although it straddles Wiff ship builds as well.

Stumbled over this in a December 1945 issue of LIFE, on speculative Soviet Navy projects.



Looks like a Beriev R1 on steroids.
http://nhungdoicanh.blogspot.com/2012/10/beriev-r-1.html