Author Topic: Bristol Beaufighter  (Read 56182 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #100 on: March 21, 2016, 03:54:16 AM »
Would look great in 1/700, ranged on the deck of an Ark Royal derived "unarmoured" Fleet Carrier in the Pacific early 1942.  This is exactly what I am planning with my Aoshima Ark Royal.


Sounds like you need some of these
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #101 on: March 21, 2016, 02:06:18 PM »
Would look great in 1/700, ranged on the deck of an Ark Royal derived "unarmoured" Fleet Carrier in the Pacific early 1942.  This is exactly what I am planning with my Aoshima Ark Royal.


Sounds like you need some of these


Nice, I recall seeing some plastic Pitroad ones somewhere too, failing that there's always Shapeways.

been planning this one ever since I read that Ark exceeded specified performance requirements by such a degree during trials, it was determined that she would still exceed them with only 2/3 the machinery, i.e. four boilers, two shafts, which would also dramatically improve survivability as the space saved could be used for greater subdivision as well as for extra aviation fuel, weapons and stores.  Twin hangers merged into a single one, flight usable deck length increased and lifts, cats and arrester gear all upgraded for larger heavier aircraft (i.e. for an originally planned Blenheim torpedo bomber), planned to counter the growing Japanese threat once they advised they were withdrawing from the naval arms control treaties.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #102 on: October 29, 2018, 06:19:42 PM »
Some better views of the turreted version:




I have seen a model of this though I am not sure if it was scratch built or a conversion kit - I suspect the former.


With the Alleycat MK II conversion, add the twin tail to improve the field of fire.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2018, 06:37:26 PM »
Well High Planes do/did one of those in 1/72

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #104 on: July 30, 2019, 04:17:19 AM »
Two questions:
  • Has anyone built or seen a Beaufighter re-engined with turboprop engines?
  • If yes, how did you do it?

TIA
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 04:47:01 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2019, 11:40:13 PM »
Two questions:
  • Has anyone built or seen a Beaufighter re-engined with turboprop engines?
  • If yes, how did you do it?

TIA
Haven't seen or done it, but I imagine if you could get your hands on one of the conversions that changes a DC-3 or Tracker to a Turboprop powered version, you'd be in the right place to start.

PT6-A67s, Mambas, Darts, TPE331s are all candidate engines, depending upon when you want this top be operating, so you could also look for aircraft using those and  Buy a twin engined aircraft kit in the right scale and fair the TP nacelle into the radial nacelle.

Just some thoughts.

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #106 on: July 31, 2019, 03:16:51 AM »
Yeah, the era you want this is probably the main thing.  If early on then I would probably go with Darts or Mambas.  If later, something like the PT6 would be the way to go.  You are probably looking for something in the 1600-2000 shp range.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #107 on: July 31, 2019, 07:57:37 AM »
Re-reading this topic, I like the idea of your COIN Beaufighter GTX.........clipped wings for low-altitude work, a gondola-mounted (Henschel Hs 129 style) 6-pounder gun as used by the de Havilland Mosquito, armoured cockpit and windscreen, ......


M.A.D
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 08:05:00 AM by M.A.D »

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #108 on: August 01, 2019, 01:39:16 AM »
Re-reading this topic, I like the idea of your COIN Beaufighter GTX.........clipped wings for low-altitude work, a gondola-mounted (Henschel Hs 129 style) 6-pounder gun as used by the de Havilland Mosquito, armoured cockpit and windscreen, ......


M.A.D
For COIN I'm not sure you want a large-bore, slow-firing gun. I'd think you want higher cyclic rates and more ammo. The M61 Vulcan or 30mm Aden are good high-rate guns that would be available from the early 50s that might be good for COIN targets, which are generally softer targets not requiring any real punch if you hit them, so there is a higher value on getting a hit than effectiveness of any one hit.

A Dart Turbo-Beau with a 2-gun ADEN gun pack under the belly and some sensors (FLIR) in the nose replacing the original Hispanos might be an interesting solution around 1962-65. You could replace the original .303s in the wings with a couple .50 cals to retain some lighter MG capability.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 01:45:29 AM by tankmodeler »

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #109 on: August 01, 2019, 03:12:16 AM »
I just wanted a faster airplane to deliver cold ice cream treats to all the kiddies.

But if you want to blow things up, I'm okay with that.

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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2019, 04:07:08 AM »
I just wanted a faster airplane to deliver cold ice cream treats to all the kiddies.

But if you want to blow things up, I'm okay with that.

😂😂😂
Hey, kids like things that blow up! Well I did 😬

M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2019, 04:11:53 AM »
Re-reading this topic, I like the idea of your COIN Beaufighter GTX.........clipped wings for low-altitude work, a gondola-mounted (Henschel Hs 129 style) 6-pounder gun as used by the de Havilland Mosquito, armoured cockpit and windscreen, ......


M.A.D
For COIN I'm not sure you want a large-bore, slow-firing gun. I'd think you want higher cyclic rates and more ammo. The M61 Vulcan or 30mm Aden are good high-rate guns that would be available from the early 50s that might be good for COIN targets, which are generally softer targets not requiring any real punch if you hit them, so there is a higher value on getting a hit than effectiveness of any one hit.

A Dart Turbo-Beau with a 2-gun ADEN gun pack under the belly and some sensors (FLIR) in the nose replacing the original Hispanos might be an interesting solution around 1962-65. You could replace the original .303s in the wings with a couple .50 cals to retain some lighter MG capability.

I take and concur with your point re the large caliber gun tankmodeler
I don't know about the FLIR re the era I was envisaging (1950's/60's)......
I was picturing a very simple, very rugged aircraft....😉


M.A.D

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2019, 09:37:45 PM »
I take and concur with your point re the large caliber gun tankmodeler
I don't know about the FLIR re the era I was envisaging (1950's/60's)......
I was picturing a very simple, very rugged aircraft....😉
Yeah, FLIR would be late 60s for sure. Simple Mk I eyeball aiming would be perfect for the 50s, say Malaya or Aden.

You kind of end up with a Commonwealth twin-engined Skyraider sort of thing. Capable of using guns and a pretty reasonable selection of iron bombs, rockets and napalm.

Paul

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2019, 09:33:14 AM »
I take and concur with your point re the large caliber gun tankmodeler
I don't know about the FLIR re the era I was envisaging (1950's/60's)......
I was picturing a very simple, very rugged aircraft....😉

You kind of end up with a Commonwealth twin-engined Skyraider sort of thing. Capable of using guns and a pretty reasonable selection of iron bombs, rockets and napalm.

Paul

I like your analogy of a twin-engined Skyraider sort of thing!!!
Always thought two-engine redundancy in a CAS/COIN aircraft!

M.A.D

Offline tankmodeler

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2019, 09:25:13 PM »
I like your analogy of a twin-engined Skyraider sort of thing!!!
Always thought two-engine redundancy in a CAS/COIN aircraft!
Oh, yeah, twin engines for CAS/COIN are a big thing for me, as well. That's why I really liked the Mohawk and Bronco. And dislike the new light attack aircraft the USAF is trialing now as they are both singles. The Pucara, and Mohawk are almost perfect COIN aircraft in my mind. The Bronco pretty much is perfect as it also has the additional benefit of the cargo compartment in the rear for SOF and casevac duties.

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2019, 03:05:27 AM »
Re-reading this topic, I like the idea of your COIN Beaufighter GTX.........clipped wings for low-altitude work, a gondola-mounted (Henschel Hs 129 style) 6-pounder gun as used by the de Havilland Mosquito, armoured cockpit and windscreen, ......


I was thinking pretty much standard Beaufighter Mk.21 with four 20 mm cannon in the fuselage and four Browning 12.7 mm in the wings plus the ability to carry rockets/bombs etc underwing.  Maybe be willing to load it up some more with external ordinance in a COIN/CAS role ala the Skyraider model and use more modern weapons including cluster bombs, napalm etc.  In this the overall speed performance might suffer but that wouldn't necessarily be an issue.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #116 on: August 03, 2019, 06:03:39 AM »
Following all these ideas it reminds me Bristol had the same thoughts --- they built it too, call the Bristol Brigand ----   ;)

Offline jcf

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2019, 01:29:18 AM »
The other Bristol Beaufighter   ;D  :icon_fsm::
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conspiracy.”
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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2019, 03:15:54 AM »
Following all these ideas it reminds me Bristol had the same thoughts --- they built it too, call the Bristol Brigand ----   ;)

Indeed and they were used with mixed results in Malaysia in a COIN role.  I wish there was a 1/48 model kit available too.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2019, 08:15:45 AM »
Yes, I didn't even think of the Brigand kitnut617!😯

Although quickly needing to refresh my memory of the obscure Brigand and it's operational traits, alas the re-reading of it short operational history only highlighted to me that the design had inherent problems operating in the tropics:
- Problem with the Brigand became apparent during operations in Malaya, with undercarriages failing to lower. This was traced to rubber seals in the hydraulic jacks deteriorating in the hot, humid climate;
- A propensity for aircraft damage and loss during strafing runs employing the four 20 mm cannon. An accumulation of gases in the long cannon blast tubes, which ran under the cockpit, were igniting through use of high-explosive shells. This in turn severed hydraulic lines, which would burn. This was cured by drastically reducing ammunition loads and using only ball rounds;
- The Brigand also had a tendency to shed a propeller blade, leading to complete propeller failure; this in turn would lead to the engine being wrenched off the wing and an inevitable crash. This was found to be caused by corrosion in the propeller locking rings;
- Another design flaw arose in the leather bellows used to deploy the air brakes during dives. In the tropical climate, the leather would rot, causing the brakes to fail. This led to Brigands losing wings in dives due to excessive airspeed or rotation as only one brake deployed. When this problem was discovered the air brakes of all Brigands were wired shut, decreasing the aircraft's dive bombing capabilities.

I'm trying to remember, did the Beaufighter have such issues with rubber seals in the hydraulic jacks deteriorating in the hot, humid climate? or a tendency to shed a propeller blade caused by corrosion in the propeller locking rings?

I hear and agree with you 110% tankmodeler regarding the Mohawk, Pucara and the Bronco; and if I may, I'd like to add the much forgotten and overlooked Sud-Aviation SE.117 Voltigeur (Skirmisher) to that list of tailored-designed and employed COIN aircraft.
2- to 6-seat capacity, armed with two 30-mm DEFA cannon in semi-external, fuselage pods. Underwing loads could include one 1000-lb and two 500-lb bombs, 24 rockets, or four AS.11 missiles. The pilot and co-pilot/observer's view through extensively glazed nose compartment, well ahead of the low-mounted wing; large dive brakes, and a range of 1100 miles and endurance was more than 5 hours.


M.A.D

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2019, 11:36:18 PM »
A lot of issues only become apparent in peace or low intensity operations because they are caused by environmental exposure and even low use.  Some rubbers and plastics degrade when not used, or not used as often, some components with life measured in flight hours never suffered environmental related failures because they were serviced or replaced more frequently during higher tempo operations.  Types of parts that never reached their shelf life in WWII sat in warehouses for years post war.

This sort of thing still happens today, a great example is parade boots, worn maybe once a year, losing their soles enmass during major parades when service personnel wear them for the third time ever over a three or four year period.  The boots, have sat unused for that period of time, the plastics in the sole, not being worked, starts to chemically break down, dozens of personnel, put their shiny as new boots on for he first time since they were issued years earlier, march out and leave their soles on the ground behind them.

I actually had this happen to a pair of work boots, the soles fell off when I had to wear them while doing a could of days familiarisation on flight line. Then there was the five year old motorbike boots I had only worn three times that disintegrated in my hands when I took them out of the WIR.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #121 on: August 11, 2019, 02:09:23 PM »
Thanks Volkodav, I appreciate your take, and yes I can understand and relate to your analogy. 👍

M.A.D

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #122 on: September 28, 2020, 08:25:57 PM »
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #123 on: September 30, 2020, 05:25:13 AM »
I was definitely thinking an external fairing...maybe akin to that carried by some Hs129s and Ju88s.

I like the idea of the adoption of the rugged Beaufighter adapted to an RAF Hs129-type anti-tank/ground attack platform - adding additional frontal armour, bullet proof windscreen, and of course a gondola with a Vickers Class "S" 40 mm cannon, instead of the Hurricane MkIID....

MAD

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Bristol Beaufighter
« Reply #124 on: September 30, 2020, 08:36:03 AM »
I was definitely thinking an external fairing...maybe akin to that carried by some Hs129s and Ju88s.

I like the idea of the adoption of the rugged Beaufighter adapted to an RAF Hs129-type anti-tank/ground attack platform - adding additional frontal armour, bullet proof windscreen, and of course a gondola with a Vickers Class "S" 40 mm cannon, instead of the Hurricane MkIID....

MAD

The Beaufighter was actually tested with a pair of 40mm's, installed in the fuselage in leu of the 20mm's.