Author Topic: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 52208 times)

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2012, 03:34:13 PM »
Interesting that they had the 105mm firing rearwards but the 155mm firing forwards.  I'd have expected the reverse.   They also appear open topped whereas the comparable British 25 pdr and 5.5in SP guns on the Centurion both fired rearwards and were fully enclosed.

The ATGW vehicle doesn't appear to be firing SS11s, the missile design is wrong.  It has long span, mid-fuselage wings and a tail, whereas the SS11 had cropped delta fins.   I've seen the missile in the picture before but can't remember where.  I think it's a US early 1950s design IIRC.

Vertical launch with SS11 would have been a real challenge.  CLOS guidance as it stood was quite difficult to use and required the missile to be in the controller's field of view throughout the flight.  There was no "automatic gathering" or anything like what came in later when SS11 was first introduced.   IIRC Vigilant was the first to introduce such ideas into the lexicon.

Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2012, 02:08:07 AM »
Yep, I wrote SS11 from memory, but once I saw the drawing I knew it was wrong. Also, nowhere does it say Anti-tank Missile, It's more likely a SSM carrier. Missile may be a Dart, timeframe would be about right; before SS-10 was selected. 




Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2012, 11:48:46 AM »
Yeah, Dart looks like a better match.  Of the first generation ATGWs, I still think Vigilant was the best.  Unfortunately only the British Army agreed.  Malkara though, was the most awesome.  Not much could stand up to a 200lb HESH warhead.   :o

Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2012, 07:37:18 AM »
OK, 200lbs, i had to google that, because that's 2 x 155mm HE rounds... wiki says 57 lbs. Still, a HUGE warhead!

Offline apophenia

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2012, 01:11:06 PM »
Thanks for posting those Centurion proposals ... great stuff!

That 200 lbs was for the total weight of Malkara (about twice the weight of the Dart). Andreas Parsch says that the SSM-A-23 Dart had a dual-thrust motor. Was that how the Dart was to pop up out of the Centurion Guided Missile Carrier's hull, I wonder?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2012, 02:39:16 PM »
D'oh!  You're right, that's the weight of the missile.  Does anybody know of a 1/35 scale model of the Humber Hornet with Malkaras?

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2012, 09:30:37 PM »
D'oh!  You're right, that's the weight of the missile.  Does anybody know of a 1/35 scale model of the Humber Hornet with Malkaras?
Had a 1:35th scale kit of that subject years ago.  Found it in a hobby shop near the main train station in Frankfurt, Germany.  Do not remember the name of the company but the kit was rather primitive from what I remember of it and the Malkara missile was large and in charge. 
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Offline Feldmarschall Zod

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2012, 09:39:18 PM »
I think I am loosing my mind. I thought there was a pic of a Centurion with an M47 turret in this thread.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2012, 02:59:51 PM »
D'oh!  You're right, that's the weight of the missile.  Does anybody know of a 1/35 scale model of the Humber Hornet with Malkaras?
Had a 1:35th scale kit of that subject years ago.  Found it in a hobby shop near the main train station in Frankfurt, Germany.  Do not remember the name of the company but the kit was rather primitive from what I remember of it and the Malkara missile was large and in charge.

There was an ancient Japanese 1/40 scale model of it IIRC seeing when I was a kid.  I also can't remember the name of the company.  Might have been Bandai or something similar, before they got the Gundam bug for giant robots...


Offline apophenia

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2012, 09:06:06 AM »
That wind-up 1/40th Hornet was by Midori (sp?). Pretty basic and toylike, as I recall, though.

Accurate Armour's Pig is probably the closest you can get in 1/35th.  But that is 50 quid and you don't even get the Malkara:P
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2013, 12:42:14 AM »
Thinking about a couple Cent kit bash ideas. Take 2 hulls, cut one after the middle bogie, and cut the other before the middle bogie. Glue the two long sections and two short sections together.

For the longer Cent, I'm thinking a tracked Honest John Launcher, or a tracked Nike-Hercules launcher. The shorter cent hull...maybe a recce vehicle, with a Saladin turret? Something late 60's vinatge. Or a JgPz type role?

I'll try and sketch something up.

Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2013, 08:49:28 AM »
very Q&D mock up

Imagine big SAM or SSM mounted on rear deck


And the shorter hulls mated together...hmm, not really thinking this will work.


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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2013, 03:00:28 PM »
Some cool ideas.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2013, 09:34:12 PM »
The short hull could be the basis of a casemate type tank destroyer.......the Decurion

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2013, 07:48:27 PM »
Imagine big SAM or SSM mounted on rear deck



Looks like something we would see out on the muskeg or tundra.    I see something similar just about everytime I go to Calgary, only it's a bit smaller (a Foremost something-or-other)

Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2013, 12:48:04 AM »
Like this?


Offline kitnut617

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2013, 04:35:26 AM »
Yup!  only they're civvie jobs

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2013, 08:53:42 AM »
Problem with the shortened Centurion is that if you put a Saladin turret on it, then you have a very light armoured turret (approximately 15mm) on a very heavily armoured hull (maximum about 250mm).  Makes it very vulnerable.  What is needed is an equally heavily armoured turret.

The problem with the lengthened hull is that you start running into the width/length ratio problem.  Tracked vehicles need to be on x metres long compared to y metres wide or they become very hard to manoeuvre because of the friction of the track length in contact with the ground.  The British found this out in WWI and WWII, when trying to extend existing chassis beyond the ratio.   I'm unsure of exactly what the ratio is but the Challenger Tank Destroyer in WWII is a perfect example of where they hit it's limits.   The Challenger was quite hard to control around tight corners apparently.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2013, 09:54:51 AM »
According to one of my reference books, the track length:width ratio has to be between 1.1:1 and 1.8:1, width being measured between track centrelines and length being the length of track actually on the ground.
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2013, 12:13:36 PM »
I rather like the recce version of the shortie Centurion.  Reminiscent of the WWII PzKpfw II Luchs and VK 1602 Leopard.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2013, 01:10:50 PM »
Shorty Centurion has neat look to it.
Is a favorite of mine  :)

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2013, 05:35:21 PM »
According to one of my reference books, the track length:width ratio has to be between 1.1:1 and 1.8:1, width being measured between track centrelines and length being the length of track actually on the ground.

That sounds about right.  ;)

Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2013, 10:20:55 PM »
Oh, those are great points ref ratio and turrets - thanks for the input!

I'll have to see about the long cent and what can be done. I think I can make the missile project over the cab and hang over the idler wheel like the Scud on ISU does. Or, i split the hull down the middle and widen it to keep a realistic L:W ratio.

For the shortie version, I may sketch up a 90mm JgPz type casement as suggested above.

Edit: I asked a colleague at the Directorate of Armoured Vehicle Program Management about the design.... sad to say, but he thinks my extended hull Centurion would either need very large corners to navigate, or it'd throw tracks all over the German countryside!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 11:47:27 PM by Gingie »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2013, 12:57:52 AM »
Looking at your extended hull Centurion I would think that the cab would be better mounted over the engine deck to give you more space and with that you could reduce the length accordingly if you wished to do so.  Instead of the Blue Tank/Nitto/et al M8 HST what about using the HobbyBoss M4 High Speed Tractor? 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 01:03:34 AM by Jeffry Fontaine »
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Centurion Tank Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2013, 02:01:39 AM »
yes of course, mount the cab over the engine.

The M8 cab was there because I thought I was going to win an ebay auction :-) Looks like it might be M4 afterall!