Author Topic: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 46095 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2013, 03:20:49 AM »
What about the upgrade proposed to the RAAF as an alternative to replacement in the late 70's, I believe it included a RR Viper installed on top of the aft fuselage beneath the tail fin.

Never heard of that one.  Do you have any more details?
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 08:55:02 AM »
It was a couple of lines in one of Stewart Wilsons Aust Airpower books, Meteor, Sabre, Mirage from memory.  Interstate at the moment so can't look it up.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2013, 03:05:31 AM »
Ah, found it - been a number of years since I last read that book.  Here's what it says (no pictures...yet ;)):

"...major refurbishing and re-engining alternatives were offered by Israeli Aircraft Industries and in 1970 by Rolls-Royce's Bristol Engines Division who proposed the Mirage IIIO 'Plus'.  their scheme involved installing an afterburning Viper turbojet in its own pod on top of the rear fuselage (rather like a DC-10's central engine), remounting the existing fin on top of that, zero timing the airframe, lengthening the forward fuselage to compensate for the changed centre of gravity and installing extra fuel in that new area of fuselage..."
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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2013, 05:00:59 AM »
Maybe a Mirage III Business Jet:

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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2013, 06:52:12 AM »
Maybe a Mirage III Business Jet:

When you just have to get to yesterday's meeting --- right ?     ;D

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2013, 11:33:15 AM »
Why not?  There was a proposal for a F-106 "command staff" transport.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2013, 12:35:01 PM »
Some variations with F-5 nose
Does that F-5 or F-20 nose come with F-20 intakes (as it appears to)?  Those would work with an of the engines suitable for the Mirage III or derivatives (anyone for slipping a F404/F414 into a Dagger or something similar.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2013, 02:19:06 AM »
Provisional Drawing of Mirage IIIO Plus by Jemiba over on Secret Projects.

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2013, 06:20:24 AM »
 :) :-* :)

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2013, 03:56:09 AM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2013, 07:44:51 AM »
While lacking in originality, putting that incredibly long Israeli recce nose from the Kfir on a Mirage III would make a great JMN-grabber.     I liked the idea enough that Heller's Mirage III was ordered in to give it a go.    As to the operator?  Who knows.  Perhaps it'll go into some Anti-cocaine intelligence operations somewhere S. of the US border.   
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2013, 09:00:02 AM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404

Didn't IAI offer a Kfir re-engined with the Volvo RM-12? Don't think there were any takers, but it would have made an interesting pair with a Singaporean Super-Skyhawk powered by a non-afterburning F404...
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2013, 02:12:56 PM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404
Didn't IAI propose that under the name Nammer.  It may have been the start of what became the Lavi since their original concept used a F404 and only went to the PW1120 when studies by themselves and others showed the F404 inadequate for how the design was growing.

Offline Weaver

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 02:40:29 PM »
There's an echo in here!  :D

I'm only remembering long-gone magazine articles here, but  I thought the RM-12 Kfir came well after the Lavi - it was an attempt to shift the pool of suplus Kfirs that Israel was having difficulty selling off.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2013, 03:18:43 PM »
Random idea:  Mirage III re-engined with GE F404

Didn't IAI propose that under the name Nammer.  It may have been the start of what became the Lavi since their original concept used a F404 and only went to the PW1120 when studies by themselves and others showed the F404 inadequate for how the design was growing.


Good memory:

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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 04:58:44 AM »
So the F404/RM-12 could fit?

And range would improve?
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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 05:06:09 AM »
ATAR 9C:

Length: 5,900 mm (232 in)
Diameter: 1,000 mm (39 in)
Dry weight: 1,456 kg (3,210 lb)
Maximum thrust:
  42.0 kN (9,440 lbf) military power
  58.9 kN (13,240 lbf) with afterburner
Specific fuel consumption:
  103 kg/(kNh) (1.01 lb/(lbfh)) military power
  207 kg/(kNh) (2.03 lb/(lbfh)) with afterburner

F404/RM12:

Length: 3,912 mm (154 in)
Diameter: 889 mm (35 in)
Dry weight: 1,036 kg (2,282 lb)
Maximum thrust:
  11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
  17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner
Specific fuel consumption:
  Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbfh) (82.6 kg/(kNh))
  Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbfh) (177.5 kg/(kNh))
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2013, 05:19:23 AM »
I'm surrounded by experts!  :)


Will look for a suitable resin nozzle.   
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2013, 05:21:06 AM »
Another IAI Nammer picture:

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2013, 05:21:37 AM »
I'm surrounded by experts!  :)

Who?  Where?
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 05:51:15 AM »
Daryl's JMN moment:   How is the fidelity of shape for the ESCI/Scale Craft 1:48 Kfir?   

It just seems like there will be an increased number of them on the market with the new toolings coming available.   There are some Mirage/Kfir hybrids I'd like to do sometime, for example a Swiss hybrid with a similar paint job to Ron Cline's Rafale on Hyperscale.
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 07:11:31 AM »
I think I have both a 1/72 RM12 from a Gripen kit and a 1/72 Mirage III C.  This could be interesting once I get my new workshop sorted out.

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2013, 02:19:33 AM »
Just a cool, inspirational video

Mirage Flightline Butterworth 1986
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Offline Weaver

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2013, 02:25:52 AM »
Interesting the way the inboard u/c doors retract as they power up the engines on the starter: another thing to think about when considering if your "standing" model is standing completely switched off or standing just about to roll....
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Mirage III Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2013, 02:06:23 AM »
For anyone who has ever wondered what Fanta Can Scheme looks like:

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