Author Topic: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration  (Read 73462 times)

Offline sequoiaranger

  • Gone but not forgotten. He already has a team of angels working up his bench in the sky!
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • E Pluribus Unum (modeling style)
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2012, 12:57:58 AM »
>There was an escort B-17.  How about an escort -'29??<

Well of course!! Except, rather than repeat the "mistake" of the overly-heavy, armed-to-the-teeth bomber conversions that couldn't keep up with the bomb-empty brood on the way home, *MY* take on the "escort" idea is some "bait" B-29's that are actually half-scale aircraft designed to RESEMBLE a B-29 but are actually single-seat fighters. Attacking these "lumbering" aircraft will surprise the attacker with a distorted perspective of size, AND a suddenly VERY AGILE gun platform bent on destruction. Sometimes a bomberless "Fighter Sweep" with HALF's in "bomber" formation will entice some "suckers" to come out and play. To wit, I present the 1/72-scale  "H.A.L.F." (High-Altitude, Long-Range Fighter), made from a 1/144 B-29 and a 1/72 Il-28 cockpit/front gun:



I have it in "Soviet Pacific" markings, helping to escort their Tu-4(?) copy of the B-29 over Japan.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 01:20:57 AM by sequoiaranger »
My mind is like a compost heap--fertile AND rotten!

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2012, 08:16:48 AM »
Tu-90, Bolshoi, ... they are marvels :) :) :-* :-*

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2012, 01:22:56 PM »
We are doing a "Dambusters" build using B-29s. For a "Hollywood Does the Dambusters" build. Its a follow on from "Bollywood Does the Battle of Britain". :icon_ninja:
Or going after the Tirpitz?  It seems (I toured Silver Hill when the Enola Gay was being rebuilt) that the A-bomb uses the same bomb shackles et al. as the Grand Slam.  'Twould be interesting to see B-29s outfitted for dambusting as a low-level mission like that is definitely not what it was designed to.

Offline Maverick

  • Suffers from 'Fat Fingers' and accidentally locks his own thread...
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • The profile machine!
    • My Photobucket Thread
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2012, 05:36:26 PM »
One would think the -29's wing planform wouldn't be fun at dambusting altitude.

I did read that the type could heft Grand Slams, but I was under the impression they were to be externally hung under the inner wings rather than internally.  Tarzon was based on the 12000lb Tallboy and it required surgery to fit into the -29's fuselage with precious little clearance.  A bomb twice the size would require something different regarding carriage.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • Reinvented Austria and the Stuka....Now what?
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2012, 05:47:43 PM »
Boeing wasn't without flying boat experience.

Give the B-29 a shoulder mounted wing and a deepened fuselage with a planing hull.
Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.wordpress.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.wordpress.com/

Offline AGRA

  • Took the opportunity to tease us with a RAAF F-82
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2012, 06:26:43 PM »
Grand Slam was never used at low altitude. It needed a high altitude release to develop high speed in the fall as part of its ground penetration ‘earthquake’ effect. It was used to destroy dams through high altitude attack.

As to fitting inside a B-29 the Grand Slam wasn’t that much bigger than the Tallboy despite being almost twice the weight. Diameter was 1.17m vs 0.95m and length 8.08m vs 6.35m compared to the Tallboy. But the maximum internal bomb size of the B-29 was limited to around 3.5m in length because of the wing running between the two bomb bays. Tarzan, Tallboy and Grand Slam were all carried semi recessed under the fuselage in a similar way to such weapons carried by the Lancaster.

Tarzan Radio Controlled Guided Bomb (1952)

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2012, 12:04:39 PM »
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal9/8301-8400/gal8342-Tupolev-Petrie/00.shtm

or, for ease of reading:
1/144 Tupolev TU-4T "Bolshoi"

With the advent of jet aircraft, the leadership of the Soviet Union began to express concerns about keeping up with the decadent Westerners. One area urgently looked into was the Jet Bomber. With this type of aircraft, planes could hit capitalists fast and hard, without fear of interception

One of the first attempts was basically a jet engined version of the Tu-4 "Bull", which itself was a reverse engineered B-29. It seemed simple enough, add some jets to an existingly fast aircraft, and quick like borscht, you'd have a new, faster plane. Well, almost...

It turns out the airfoil design used on the B-29 had a limiting Mach factor, so the addition of jet engines only added 50 knots airspeed. The thirsty nature of early jet engines also meant that a massively large part of the payload had to be given over to fuel, and range suffered drastically as well. It turned out, the Tu-4T was capable of a slightly faster attack, at only 25% of the range of a conventional Tu-4, with only 31% of it's payload. A fully fuelled Tu-4T, taking off from Moscow, could only reach Kiev before requiring refuelling. Needless to say, the plane wasn't put into production, with only three prototypes being built.

However, the ever busy CIA and MI-6 were able to photograph the Tu-4T at a Soviet airfield, and it was assumed to be an operational aircraft. It was designated "Bolshoi" under the NATO naming protocols, and remained in the west's Cold War planning directives as late as 1967.







I got the idea from an old issue of Mechanix Illustrated. Academy lent their 1/144 scale B-29 to the cause, with engines from an old Revell 707 helping out.

Alvis 3.1


Sorry my friend .... was this a 'What If' or was it an actual Soviet project to adapt the Tu-4 from a piston engine to jet job???? :o

M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2012, 12:06:59 PM »



Very similar to me `plastic` Tu-90 it built back in July last year.......  ;)










What a great Idea, what an even fantastic effort!!!
I like it!
I want it!!

M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2012, 12:11:39 PM »
Very similar to me `plastic` Tu-90 it built back in July last year.......  ;)




Is that the dreaded "bamboo curtain" or the "cane curtain" behind your model? :)

Looks quite convincing with the FOD covers in place and the NMF.


I would love to see it with a big, fat and powerful Kh-20 (AS-3 'Kangaroo') city buster semi-recessed under its fuselage!!  :icon_surprised:

M.A.D

Offline M.A.D

  • Also likes a bit of arse...
  • Wrote a great story about a Christmas Air Battle
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2012, 12:13:05 PM »
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal9/8301-8400/gal8342-Tupolev-Petrie/00.shtm

or, for ease of reading:
1/144 Tupolev TU-4T "Bolshoi"

Alvis 3.1


Again I would love to see it with a big, fat and powerful Kh-20 (AS-3 'Kangaroo') city buster semi-recessed under its fuselage!!  :icon_surprised:

M.A.D

Offline Litvyak

  • Shifting between quantum realities...
  • Althistorian & profiler...& the 1st lady of whiff
    • The True North, Strong and Free (AltCan)
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2012, 12:32:10 PM »
Black 175 looks so right, it's like it's something real. Not sure I can come up with much higher praise for a whiff!

Red 05 is like that, too! And the magazine cover there makes it even more so.
"God save our Queen and heaven bless the Maple Leaf forever!"

Alternate Canada - http://altcan.webs.com

"Bernard, this doesn't say anything!" "Why thank you, Prime Minister."

Offline ChernayaAkula

  • Was left standing in front when everyone else took one step back...
  • Global Moderator
  • Putting the "pro" in procrastination since...?
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2012, 02:40:54 PM »
Black 175 looks so right, it's like it's something real. Not sure I can come up with much higher praise for a whiff!
Red 05 is like that, too! And the magazine cover there makes it even more so.
Yup!  :) You could easily put these two on the table of some Soviet Special Interest Group display at a model show and the vast majority of people wouldn't spot these as whifs.
Cheers,
Moritz

"The appropriate response to reality is to go insane!"

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2012, 02:54:19 PM »
Boeing wasn't without flying boat experience.

Give the B-29 a shoulder mounted wing and a deepened fuselage with a planing hull.


Where the B-29 got its wings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_XPBB_Sea_Ranger

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

  • Unaffiliated Independent Subversive...and the last person to go for a trip on a Mexicana dH Comet 4
  • Global Moderator
  • His stash is able to be seen from space...
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2012, 01:18:21 AM »
Someone built a model of the 1/48th scale Monogram B-29 and modified it to have electric motors driving the propellers.  While the tolerances of such a fit are painfully obvious in the video it is still quite nice to watch and appreciate this modeler's efforts to add some animation to a scale model.   

B-29 Superfortress - 1:48 Scale Model



Additional links on the left side of the YouTube page have more videos on this model and others if you are interested. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2012, 02:30:38 AM »
That's brilliant!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline smeds

  • Newly Joined - Welcome me!
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2012, 04:49:52 AM »
Grand Slam was never used at low altitude. It needed a high altitude release to develop high speed in the fall as part of its ground penetration ‘earthquake’ effect. It was used to destroy dams through high altitude attack.

As to fitting inside a B-29 the Grand Slam wasn’t that much bigger than the Tallboy despite being almost twice the weight. Diameter was 1.17m vs 0.95m and length 8.08m vs 6.35m compared to the Tallboy. But the maximum internal bomb size of the B-29 was limited to around 3.5m in length because of the wing running between the two bomb bays. Tarzan, Tallboy and Grand Slam were all carried semi recessed under the fuselage in a similar way to such weapons carried by the Lancaster.

Tarzan Radio Controlled Guided Bomb (1952)


B29 did carry Tallboy but not semi-recessed, they were carried under the inboard wings.

http://forum.valka.cz/files/b29_se_dv_ma_pumami_tallboy.jpg

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2012, 06:32:22 AM »
Grand Slam was never used at low altitude. It needed a high altitude release to develop high speed in the fall as part of its ground penetration ‘earthquake’ effect. It was used to destroy dams through high altitude attack.

As to fitting inside a B-29 the Grand Slam wasn’t that much bigger than the Tallboy despite being almost twice the weight. Diameter was 1.17m vs 0.95m and length 8.08m vs 6.35m compared to the Tallboy. But the maximum internal bomb size of the B-29 was limited to around 3.5m in length because of the wing running between the two bomb bays. Tarzan, Tallboy and Grand Slam were all carried semi recessed under the fuselage in a similar way to such weapons carried by the Lancaster.

Tarzan Radio Controlled Guided Bomb (1952)


B29 did carry Tallboy but not semi-recessed, they were carried under the inboard wings.

http://forum.valka.cz/files/b29_se_dv_ma_pumami_tallboy.jpg


Actually those are Grand Slams ---

I got the information straight from Boeing.  I also have this photo but it shows the complete aircraft, I also have a photo of a B-29 carrying a T-12, which was 44,000 lbs in weight.  Both photos were bought from the Boeing Archive
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 06:35:41 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline smeds

  • Newly Joined - Welcome me!
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2012, 10:37:27 PM »
Grand Slam was never used at low altitude. It needed a high altitude release to develop high speed in the fall as part of its ground penetration ‘earthquake’ effect. It was used to destroy dams through high altitude attack.

As to fitting inside a B-29 the Grand Slam wasn’t that much bigger than the Tallboy despite being almost twice the weight. Diameter was 1.17m vs 0.95m and length 8.08m vs 6.35m compared to the Tallboy. But the maximum internal bomb size of the B-29 was limited to around 3.5m in length because of the wing running between the two bomb bays. Tarzan, Tallboy and Grand Slam were all carried semi recessed under the fuselage in a similar way to such weapons carried by the Lancaster.

Tarzan Radio Controlled Guided Bomb (1952)


B29 did carry Tallboy but not semi-recessed, they were carried under the inboard wings.

http://forum.valka.cz/files/b29_se_dv_ma_pumami_tallboy.jpg


Actually those are Grand Slams ---

I got the information straight from Boeing.  I also have this photo but it shows the complete aircraft, I also have a photo of a B-29 carrying a T-12, which was 44,000 lbs in weight.  Both photos were bought from the Boeing Archive


Found this :-

Are the underwing bombs Tallboys or Blockbusters? It seems inconceivable to me that a B29 can carry the load of a Lancaster under each wing!

They are Tallboys (Medium) 12,000lbs 21ft long with the casing 10ft 4ins long, 38ins dia.

Tallboy (Large) 22,000lbs 25ft 5ins long the casing 12ft 6ins long, 46ins dia.
Called Grandslam.

Tallboy (small) 4,000lbs used for ballistic trials.

According to wikipedia, the loaded weight of a B-29 is 120,000lb. max take off weight with combat load of 135,000lb.

Let the confusion reign
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 10:43:06 PM by smeds »

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2012, 11:22:00 PM »

Actually those are Grand Slams ---

I got the information straight from Boeing.  I also have this photo but it shows the complete aircraft, I also have a photo of a B-29 carrying a T-12, which was 44,000 lbs in weight.  Both photos were bought from the Boeing Archive

Found this :-

Are the underwing bombs Tallboys or Blockbusters? It seems inconceivable to me that a B29 can carry the load of a Lancaster under each wing!

They are Tallboys (Medium) 12,000lbs 21ft long with the casing 10ft 4ins long, 38ins dia.

Tallboy (Large) 22,000lbs 25ft 5ins long the casing 12ft 6ins long, 46ins dia.
Called Grandslam.

Tallboy (small) 4,000lbs used for ballistic trials.

According to wikipedia, the loaded weight of a B-29 is 120,000lb. max take off weight with combat load of 135,000lb.

Let the confusion reign

I figured you'd come back with a reply so have a look at these photos I bought from Boeing.  The top one I got first but when I offered up my Grand Slam bomb to the B-29 kit I have I quickly realized that the bomb in the photo was much bigger.  An email back to Boeing got me my answer, I was told it was actually a T-12.  I was then told there was another photo available which I then bought on the spot (bottom photo).  I then did a comparison with my kit Grand Slam and a Paragon Tallboy and found that the two bombs hanging under the B-29 were Grand Slam size.  You can see from this photo that the one you posted is only a part of it and from the full photo you can see the size very clearly and they are not Tallboys.  But don't take my word for it, you only have to do some comparing yourself to find out for yourself.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2012, 11:31:19 PM »
Here's a bomb size comparison of a T-12, Grand Slam and Tallboy.  The T-12 shape is a master I'm making for some resin re-productions I'll do, the dimensions for it I got from the US Army Ordnance Museum at Aderdeen, MD website

Offline sequoiaranger

  • Gone but not forgotten. He already has a team of angels working up his bench in the sky!
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • E Pluribus Unum (modeling style)
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2012, 11:48:50 PM »
...now I am confused.

OK--the two large bombs in the lower picture are the 44,000-lb "Grand Slam" Tallboys (comes in three flavors!).

You mentioned that the single Tallboy-like bomb semi-recessed in the B-29's fuselage was "actually a T-12". My question is, What is a "T-12" called, how much did *IT* weight? How big was it relative to the first A-bombs?

Thanks.
My mind is like a compost heap--fertile AND rotten!

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2012, 11:55:27 PM »
The two large bombs in the lower photo are 22,000 lb Grand Slams.  The single recessed bomb is a 44,000 lb T-12, sometimes called a Grand Slam too but mostly just a T-12.

The T-12 was a 44,000 lb deep penetration bomb, it started as a directly scaled up copy of the 22,000 lb Grand Slam.  But because the overall length of it wouldn't fit in the modified B-29 or a standard B-36 bomb bay, the tail cone was shortened.  My top photo shows it with the shortened tail cone.
The Tallboy was a 12,000 lb deep penetration bomb that was the first to emerge during WW.II, followed by the Grand Slam some months later.  My dad was in 617 Sqn. when they used these bombs and he told me one time the scarest part of these were when they brought the bomb back with them because they couldn't see the target, they weren't allowed to waste the bomb by just dumping it on the return flight.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 11:58:45 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2012, 12:01:18 AM »
In the T-12 photo you'll notice that it's hanging directly off the wing spars that go through the fuselage, the spars were re-enforced to handle the weight and you'll also notice the wing root fairing which was added to streamline the strengthening.

This info I got direct from Boeing.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2012, 12:08:20 AM »
A pic of a T-12 at Aberdeen Proving Ground (and no that's not me in the pic)

http://www.qsl.net/aa6rv/photos/aberdeen5.htm

Offline sequoiaranger

  • Gone but not forgotten. He already has a team of angels working up his bench in the sky!
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • E Pluribus Unum (modeling style)
Re: Boeing B-29 Superfortress ideas and inspiration
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2012, 12:41:16 AM »
That pic makes that bomb pretty impressive-looking!

>the spars were re-enforced to handle the weight <

Yeah, I am imagining the pull of the bomb bending the wing spar, making the wings go up in a "V"!!!!
My mind is like a compost heap--fertile AND rotten!