Author Topic: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan  (Read 32203 times)

Offline nebnoswal

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Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« on: March 07, 2012, 07:39:24 PM »
Found these today




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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 02:21:05 AM »
Nice!  where were those from?

It will be interesting to see what happens with the RAAF's planned C-27J acquisition now that the USAF are no longer getting theirs (this being a key part of the Australian decision).  Mind you, it still makes the most sense from my perspective.

Now, to see one of those in a AC-27J layout would be nicer too.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 03:35:38 AM »
Nice!  where were those from?

It will be interesting to see what happens with the RAAF's planned C-27J acquisition now that the USAF are no longer getting theirs (this being a key part of the Australian decision).  Mind you, it still makes the most sense from my perspective.

Now, to see one of those in a AC-27J layout would be nicer too.

When did that happen Greg ? I've missed something ----

Offline apophenia

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 05:21:07 AM »
When did that happen Greg ? I've missed something ----

kit': It was announced by Panetta on 26 January 2012. Alenia Aermacchi then announced that it wouldn't support any ex-USAF C-27Js sold by the US government. In other words, having lost their tie-in to the USAF supply/mtx chain, the RAAF doesn't have the option of picking up cheaper Spartans from the US either.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 05:39:02 AM »
When did that happen Greg ? I've missed something ----

kit': It was announced by Panetta on 26 January 2012. Alenia Aermacchi then announced that it wouldn't support any ex-USAF C-27Js sold by the US government. In other words, having lost their tie-in to the USAF supply/mtx chain, the RAAF doesn't have the option of picking up cheaper Spartans from the US either.

So that's the Tanker contract, the trainer contract and now the transport contract, what's next -----  ;D

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 04:48:51 PM »
One could point out that the serial number is missing a number...Probably a 5 or a 6...still, they look great!  Now if only I could get a 1/48 kit...
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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 04:39:06 AM »
What about a single engined C-27...with a Europrop International TP400-D6 (11,000 sip) mounted in the tail in a similar arrangement to the Britten-Norman Trislander?  Remove the Rolls-Royce AE 2100s (4,640 hp each) from under the wings all together.

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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 04:43:29 AM »
Or stretch it and replace both engines with TP400s.  Make it a Euro competitor to legacy C-130s in the ~16 ton category.  I bet apophenia could mock up either of those proposals pretty beautifully.  I know he has done C-27s before.

Cheers,

Logan

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 12:05:13 PM »
What about a single engined C-27...with a Europrop International TP400-D6 (11,000 sip) mounted in the tail in a similar arrangement to the Britten-Norman Trislander?  Remove the Rolls-Royce AE 2100s (4,640 hp each) from under the wings all together.


It would end up looking somewhat like an Ekranoplan...


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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 01:09:13 PM »
Yep
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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 03:21:35 AM »
How about giving the C-27J back the STOVL/ESTOL capability originally considered for the G.222:




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Offline nebnoswal

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 06:34:31 PM »
Its offical, 2 days after massive budgets cuts to the ADF, and now the govt announce they are going to purchase 10 C-27's

"The RAAF will buy 10 Alenia C-27J transports to fulfil the AIR 8000 Phase 2 Battlefield Airlifter (BFA) requirement, Defence Minister Stephen Smith and Minister for Defence Materiel Jason Clare have confirmed today.
 
The announcement – which comes just 36 hours after the 2012-13 federal budget confirmed the RAAF’s eight remaining C-130H Hercules would be retired early as part of Defence’s contribution to government’s plan to return to surplus – has been a long-time coming, with AIR 8000 being active for more than 12 years, and the previous AIR 5190 running for more than a decade before that. The BFA will fill the requirement left vacant by the retirement of the last remaining DHC-4 Caribou tactical transports in December 2009.
 
“The C-27J was assessed by Defence as the aircraft which best met all the essential capability requirements and provides the best value for money. It was assessed as being able to fly further, faster, higher while carrying more cargo and requiring a smaller runway than the other aircraft under consideration, the Airbus Military C295,” a ministerial statement reads.
 
The statement also cited RAAF claims that the C-27J can access nearly four times the number of airfields in Australia than the larger C-130J, and double the number of airfields in our wider region, as well as being able to operate into softer or unprepared fields.
 
The new aircraft will be based at RAAF Richmond west of Sydney with a resurrected 35SQN – which was disbanded in 1999 when Caribou operations were consolidated with 38SQN – under the command of 84WG.
 
The aircraft and associated spares, training and equipment will cost about $1.4 billion. The first RAAF C-27J is due to be delivered in 2015, and initial operational capability is scheduled for late 2016.
 
“Initial logistic support, including training for aircrew and maintenance personnel will be provided through the FMS program, utilising the system that has been established in the US,” the ministers’ statement reads. “Defence will seek a separate agreement with the C-27J manufacturer, Alenia, in order to ensure that RAAF can operate, maintain and modify the aircraft throughout its planned life.”
 
Australia requested pricing for 10 C-27Js through the US FMS process late last year."

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 03:23:08 AM »
Yes, this particular line:

Quote
This has disappointed the customer in the US.  This item is extremely important to us all, as it is effectively demonstrating to the business how well the suppliers in Australia can perform.  This will provide the point of reference for convincing other Procurement people in the Electronic System business that we can make the Global Supply chain work.

is very interesting when one looks at some of the fallout from the USAF C-27J cancellation...

Anyway, they will be good...pity it took them over 10yrs to get what they had originally decided upon ...
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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 02:42:51 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Geoff

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2012, 06:28:23 PM »
That would look good as a National Guard a/c.

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2012, 01:27:22 AM »
G.222 nacelle centreline drawings from AvWeek 19 July, 1965.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 01:29:19 AM by jcf »
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 02:41:18 PM »


Article


For about 20-years I've been an advocate for a more affordable 'gunship' variant of the G.222 (and the C-27J when it gestated!) for the RAAF. But I am just as adamant that it has to have the the 105mm soft-recoil howitzer of its big brother - the AC-130 Specter!! This is imperative for the 105mm through-weight and HE value against hard targets, which neither the 30mm-40mm cannon can achieve. Also without the 105mm stand-off range, the AC-27J will be made to be more vulnerable to hostile AAA and MANPAD's used by insurgence.
P.S. would very much appreciate a profile drawing of a AC-27J (with 105mm howitzer), 1 x 30-40mm cannon and 1 x 25mm rotary cannon in RAAF colours and marking  ;)

M.A.D   

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 02:52:25 PM »
Ah, but these days, the role of the 105mm has been overtaken by Hellfire or similar:

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Offline AGRA

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2012, 03:26:44 PM »
The specific role of the 105mm M102 on-board a gunship is the destruction of vehicles and buildings. The anti-vehicle role comes from interdicting trucks on the Ho Chi Minh trail and is no longer appropriate in current counter insurgency operations due to the high level of splinters and the like. Hellfires or other guided munitions are used to destroy enemy vehicles. The house busting role has also been taken over by JDAMs dropped by strike fighters or bombers. In both cases single weapons can now be used to destroy these targets rather than a number of 105mm shells (2 per truck and 8 per house). Which leaves the gunship providing the most useful service of persistent automatic cannon and ISR support. Basically it’s like an Apache gunship but it stays overhead for eight hours and carries lots more radios, eyes and mouths to run the battle. The 105mm was to be replaced by a 120mm mortar that could fire guided shells but in the end it’s just a lot cheaper and easier to load Hellfires, Griffins and other missiles.

Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 07:19:37 AM »
Pretty...



http://theaviationist.com/2013/11/18/italy-mc-27j-gunships/#.UoqfpOI6xUQ

Quote
Italy to operate a small fleet of MC-27J Praetorian gunships, special operations planes
By David Cenciotti

During the Dubai airshow 2013, Alenia Aermacchi (a Finmeccanica Company) and the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) signed an agreement to provide development, testing, certification, industrialization and logistic support of the specialized version of the MC-27J known as Praetorian.

The Praetorian, is a specialized version of the MC-27J, that will support missions for the Italian Special Forces, Comando Operativo Forze Speciali (COFS).

Among the supported configurations one of the most interesting is the Fire Support one, that sees a Spartan cargo plane transformed into a Gunship (a mini-AC-130 Spectre) equipped with a side GAU-23 30 mm gun.

Still, of particular interest for the Italian Air Force are those that envisage the Spartan equipped with Communications Intelligence (COMINT), EO/IR (Electro optical/Infra-red) sensors for ISR (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance), Border Surveillance, Command and Control missions.

“The Italian Air Force plan to transform three C-27J’s, currently in service, into the Praetorian configuration during 2016 and will include mission systems, C3ISR equipment and palletized support / fire systems. An additional three aircraft will also have the same mission package capabilities,” an Alenia Aermacchi press release explains.


Cheers,

Logan

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 05:12:11 PM »
Love the Praetorian name.
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Offline PR19_Kit

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 06:32:34 PM »
Love the Praetorian name.

Bags of scope for whiffed Roman Legion colour schemes.  :)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2013, 12:28:52 PM »
Love the Praetorian name.
Eagle and "SPQR" plaque from the Legions' standards on the vertical tail?

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Aeritalia G.222 and Alenia-Lockheed Martin C-27 Spartan
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 05:20:56 PM »
Anybody got any information on the proposed ASW version?

Wasn't there also an ECM version?