Beyond The Sprues

Modelling => Ideas & Inspiration => Sea => Topic started by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 13, 2013, 04:23:48 AM

Title: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 13, 2013, 04:23:48 AM
A place holder for all things related to amphibious operations from the sea to the beach and beyond with the focus on vessels and not vehicles. 

A few links to various landing craft types:

Wikipedia - Landing Craft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft Assault (LCA) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Assault)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft, Mechanized (LCM) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Mechanized)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft, Personnel, Large (LCPL) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCPL)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft, Vehicle, Personnel (LCVP) aka "the Higgins boat" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCVP_(United_States))

Wikipedia - Landing Ship, Tank (LST) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Ship,_Tank)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft, Tank (LCT) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft_tank)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft, Utility (LCU) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft_utility)

Wikipedia - Air-Cushioned Landing Craft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-cushioned_landing_craft)

Wikipedia - Landing Craft, Air Cushion (LCAC) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Air_Cushion)

Wikipedia - Assault Boat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_boat)

Wikipedia - Category:Landing craft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Landing_craft)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Volkodav on November 13, 2013, 05:02:04 AM
Yes, I like.
 :)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on November 13, 2013, 05:08:06 AM
I was a bit stumped when I opened this can of worms.  So many variations on the theme to choose from and soon found myself creating a monster list where normally you would only have one or two links to the subject. 

Woke up this morning thinking about modifying one of my 1:35th scale LCM kits into a diver support boat which is what got me started on this as there was no place to share that idea until now :)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: jcf on November 13, 2013, 05:39:13 AM
Late 60s Bell concept, from JANE'S Surface Skimmer Systems 1967-68.

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/LCAC_01.png)

Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Volkodav on November 13, 2013, 07:42:36 AM
The RAN is in the process of retiring their Landing Craft Heavy (LCH), with three gone and three to go. With over 40 years service they have done almost any mission you could imagine from classic amphibious assault to logistics, in shore hydrograghic survey to boarder protection patrols (very slow ones ). Even though old they still do their jobs very well and economically and could be kept in service for a couple of decades longer.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: elmayerle on November 14, 2013, 02:09:14 AM
Late 60s Bell concept, from JANE'S Surface Skimmer Systems 1967-68.

([url]http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/LCAC_01.png[/url])

Not too far off form the LCAC's the USN is now looking to replace and retire.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on May 15, 2016, 08:23:36 AM
Models of Republic of China (a.k.a. Taiwan) Navy's planned Landing Platform Dock.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: elmayerle on May 15, 2016, 08:46:17 AM
That LPD looks a lot like the US San Antonio class; I wonder if the hanger doors can accommodate folded V-22's?  Also be interesting to see if the docking well can easily take LCAC's or their replacement SSC's.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on May 15, 2016, 10:27:59 AM
That LPD looks a lot like the US San Antonio class......

About half its displacement.

...... I wonder if the hanger doors can accommodate folded V-22's?

Don't know although the closest thing ROCN can procure from abroad would be MH-53E (which I don't think is going to happen at this point).  The helipad should be able to handle and refuel CH-47SD, but the hangar is likely arranged with S-70C(M) in mind.

Also be interesting to see if the docking well can easily take LCAC's or their replacement SSC's.

Likely just old-school LCUs.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: elmayerle on May 15, 2016, 10:46:10 AM
I could see them being the first to purchase export MH-53K's, but I doubt the CH-53E and/or MH-53E will ever go up for sale, even when replaced as they are just too worn out to be worth it.  I still like the idea of ROCN MV-22B's and think their camo scheme would look good on one.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Volkodav on May 15, 2016, 07:11:18 PM
I could see a San Antonio being upgraded like this, medium calibre gun or even an AGS, perhaps a VLS and improved sensors, maybe a CEAFAR Mast. 
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on May 16, 2016, 01:13:15 AM
I could see them being the first to purchase export MH-53K's, but I doubt the CH-53E and/or MH-53E will ever go up for sale, even when replaced as they are just too worn out to be worth it.

MH-53E was an item that was brought up during the Bush Jr. administration.  If ROCN wasn't going to take it then, it's extremely unlikely that they ever will take it.

I don't know which one I'd like better for airborne mine countermeasure, MH-53K or MH-60S (so as to also be able to use the vacant second hangar on Cheng Kung a.k.a. O.H. Perry class frigates).

I could see a San Antonio being upgraded like this, medium calibre gun or even an AGS, perhaps a VLS and improved sensors, maybe a CEAFAR Mast.

ROCN feels inclined to arm their ships this way because it's unlikely they will be procuring any equivalent of the Arleigh Burke class DDG.  Equivalent of LCF is much more likely.

Featured word- inclined.  The recently commissioned AOE was to have a Mk.75 gun as well; and then the ship gets a Sea Chaparral launcher instead.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 16, 2016, 02:34:40 AM
and then the ship gets "value-engineered"

Is that the term officially used or your own description?  If the latter please chose a different description - Value Engineering is a quite legitimate, useful process and should not be confusingly misrepresented as a derogatory term.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: jcf on May 16, 2016, 02:53:14 AM
Late 60s Bell concept, from JANE'S Surface Skimmer Systems 1967-68.

([url]http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/LCAC_01.png[/url])

Not too far off form the LCAC's the USN is now looking to replace and retire.


3-view of the SK-10 that I thought I had posted, turns out I hadn't.  :-\

(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/ACV/SK-10_02.png)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: The Big Gimper on May 16, 2016, 03:22:39 AM
When Greg and I went to the Niagara Aerospace Museum a year ago at the old Bell Plant in Niagara Falls, I took the following pictures with my iPhone.

EDIT (July 2017): Photos moved to Flickr and reposted.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4328/36083372132_c2de9c760a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WYyHpJ)IMG_1867 (https://flic.kr/p/WYyHpJ) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4323/36209362336_de40358b39_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XaGrUC)IMG_1868 (https://flic.kr/p/XaGrUC) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4294/36083369542_7920a97698_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WYyGD5)IMG_1869 (https://flic.kr/p/WYyGD5) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4320/36209360556_6b5c65ca37_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XaGrnW)IMG_1870 (https://flic.kr/p/XaGrnW) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4305/36083368722_3b213ca146_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WYyGoW)IMG_1871 (https://flic.kr/p/WYyGoW) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4312/36209360006_6135ff170d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XaGrds)IMG_1873 (https://flic.kr/p/XaGrds) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4294/36083367922_854bc11300_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WYyGa9)IMG_1874 (https://flic.kr/p/WYyGa9) by Carl Wimmi (https://www.flickr.com/photos/153210713@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: finsrin on May 16, 2016, 03:59:29 AM
Being active reader of anything military at the time.  Saw that SK-10 picture in some publication(s) or another.
Thanks for posting Jon.  A flashback time capsule moment seeing it.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: jcf on May 16, 2016, 04:03:40 AM
Remember folks there is also a stand alone thread for ACVs of all sorts:
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2058.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2058.0)
 :icon_fsm:

I have a bunch more stuff scanned that I'll be adding at some point, including drawings for that LSES.  ;)


Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on May 16, 2016, 05:30:43 AM
If the latter please chose a different description......

Done.

...... Value Engineering is a quite legitimate, useful process and should not be confusingly misrepresented as a derogatory term.

I stand corrected about the term's official status, but just to be clear, I didn't knowingly screw with language, nor did I really use that term in a derogatory way (while the differences between planned and actual configuration certainly have cost considerations involved, at this point we wouldn't know how useful a Mk.75 on a replenishment ship would have been beyond ending up as a bigger gun to shoot pirates with anyway; the Sea Chaparral might be outdated, but there is still logic behind its inclusion).
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on May 17, 2016, 02:52:38 AM
I could see a San Antonio being upgraded like this, medium calibre gun or even an AGS, perhaps a VLS and improved sensors, maybe a CEAFAR Mast.

Addendum to that model picture of the ROCN's planned LPD:

Armaments suggested by the model include one Mk.75 (with locally-refitted low-observable cupola) forward, two 16-round above-deck fixed launchers (again, in low-observable housings) amidship for TC-2 point-defense missiles, two Phalanx CIWS, two small-calibre autocannons, and several .50 cal. or 7.62mm machineguns.

One of the integrated masts is believed to be meant to accommodate a 3D search radar
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on May 17, 2016, 10:50:36 AM
...... two 16-round above-deck fixed launchers (again, in low-observable housings) amidship for TC-2 point-defense missiles......
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: dy031101 on June 06, 2016, 08:48:08 AM
That LPD looks a lot like the US San Antonio class; I wonder if the hanger doors can accommodate folded V-22's?

Totally neglected the illustration:
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: M.A.D on July 30, 2017, 06:56:25 AM
Late 60s Bell concept, from JANE'S Surface Skimmer Systems 1967-68.

([url]http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/LCAC_01.png[/url])

Not too far off form the LCAC's the USN is now looking to replace and retire.


3-view of the SK-10 that I thought I had posted, turns out I hadn't.  :-\

([url]http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww291/joncarrfarrelly/ACV/SK-10_02.png[/url])


Its sort of typically ironic (like that of the Ling-Temco-Vought (LTV) XC-142 and the V-22 Osprey), that the USN could have such an effective LCAC in the Bell SK-10 decades before it finally developed and deployed the Aerojet General [Textron Marine and Land Systems] LCAC (first deployed in 1987)  :(

M.A.D
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: jcf on July 30, 2017, 07:28:12 AM
Uh, the production LCAC is a development of the Bell JEFF-B design, which used design elements from the SK-10. 
The Aerojet JEFF-A lost the competition. Textron Marine (Textron Marine & Land Systems since 1994, after merger
with Cadillac Gage) is a sub-division of Textron just like Bell Helicopter.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: M.A.D on July 30, 2017, 03:23:47 PM
Uh, the production LCAC is a development of the Bell JEFF-B design, which used design elements from the SK-10. 
The Aerojet JEFF-A lost the competition. Textron Marine (Textron Marine & Land Systems since 1994, after merger
with Cadillac Gage) is a sub-division of Textron just like Bell Helicopter.
Well that's embarrassing JCF, to think all these years I had it arse about  :-[

M.A.D
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: LemonJello on September 27, 2018, 09:10:09 AM
Modern Day Marine Expo, Ingalls Shipbuilding's booth:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1943/44027160295_c83d2846f3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2a5wGSB)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1904/44939431221_da85852f94_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bt9keF)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1911/44027161835_7f4e018d1e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2a5wHka)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Story on May 29, 2020, 10:21:14 PM
The Navy’s new Light Amphibious Warship (LAW) program envisions procuring a class of 28 to 30 new amphibious ships to support the Marine Corps, particularly in implementing a new Marine Corps operational concept called Expeditionary Advanced Base Operations (EABO).
https://news.usni.org/2020/05/29/report-to-congress-on-navy-light-amphibious-warship?fbclid=IwAR3aJDeXtnKoNz_99I5BGZ5-s27ENcCCkr2zppARwJyzJOLIH8suU-_BnpA

Very simple lines.  Admin note: added image tag so it can been seen directly.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZL8v-mXQAQY-if?format=jpg)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Frank3k on May 30, 2020, 04:47:24 AM
It looks like a mega yacht full of Marines. I doubt they'll be able to keep the cost down with all the pork that's going to be involved...
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: The Big Gimper on May 30, 2020, 04:57:11 AM
Do someone say pork?

(https://fw-d7-freedomworks-org.s3.amazonaws.com/field/image/hogs%20of%20war.jpg)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 30, 2020, 05:01:12 AM
Mmmm...pork.  Doing some BBQ Pork Ribs this weekend...
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Story on May 31, 2020, 12:02:56 AM
USS PORKCHOP

(https://i.imgur.com/z74HbKo.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: GTX_Admin on May 31, 2020, 03:47:31 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: jcf on June 04, 2020, 10:36:07 AM
The Navy and Marine Corps are on drugs and their heads are still stuck in WWII.  ;D

The EABO concept was developed with an eye toward potential conflict scenarios with China in the Western Pacific.
Under the concept, the Marine Corps envisions, among other things, having reinforced-platoon-sized Marine Corps units
maneuver around the theater, moving from island to island, to fire anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) and perform other
missions so as to contribute, alongside Navy and other U.S. military forces, to U.S operations to counter and deny sea
control to Chinese forces. The LAW ships would be instrumental to these operations, with LAWs embarking, transporting,
landing, and subsequently reembarking these small Marine Corps units.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D :-\

What a collection of morons.  :-X
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Volkodav on June 05, 2020, 08:26:21 PM
The Navy and Marine Corps are on drugs and their heads are still stuck in WWII.  ;D

The EABO concept was developed with an eye toward potential conflict scenarios with China in the Western Pacific.
Under the concept, the Marine Corps envisions, among other things, having reinforced-platoon-sized Marine Corps units
maneuver around the theater, moving from island to island, to fire anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) and perform other
missions so as to contribute, alongside Navy and other U.S. military forces, to U.S operations to counter and deny sea
control to Chinese forces. The LAW ships would be instrumental to these operations, with LAWs embarking, transporting,
landing, and subsequently reembarking these small Marine Corps units.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D :-\


What a collection of morons.  :-X


Yep, load a bunch on Marines on board a ship that can't defend its self, that has been bought instead of ships that can defend themselves, therefore aren't available to escort and defend it, with the object of landing said marines on an island somewhere so they can fire anti ship missiles and anti aircraft missiles at the ships and aircraft that likely would have sunk the ship transporting them before they got to where they were going to set up their missiles to defend themselves. 

Is it just me but wouldn't it make more sense to buy ships that can project power and survive doing so, rather than buy glorified ferries that will not survive?

When it comes down to it, wouldn't a large amphib that can lash marine vehicles to their deck, permitting the marines to use their vehicle based weapons while at sea in transit, as they currently do, make more sense?  The whole idea seem to be to divide the force into expendable, offensive, networked penny packets and hope enough of them survive to make an impact.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: jcf on June 06, 2020, 08:55:11 AM
Better yet they admit that in our current age with the low odds of a classic amphibious landing
being carried out - and even the lower odds of it actually working, the Marines have returned to
their earlier role of Naval Infantry?
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Volkodav on June 06, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
Better yet they admit that in our current age with the low odds of a classic amphibious landing
being carried out - and even the lower odds of it actually working, the Marines have returned to
their earlier role of Naval Infantry?

True, big deck amphibs have become medium carriers by default and their amphibious capability is only useful in limited / asymmetric confrontations and HADR.  The thinking behind the platoon sized elements is an assumption that the enemy wont be able to get them all, but looking at the proposed scales of equipment there wont be huge numbers of missile launchers anyway, meaning the whole plan falls on its face.  It would probably make more sense to embark a CB90 and a troop lift helo on an LCS to support a reinforced platoon of marines, i.e. making the marines an extension of the ship rather than the ship a mode of transport for the marines.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: kim margosein on June 07, 2020, 09:26:49 AM
This is a great leap backwards.  The last non photo  op landings were in the Korean war.  Any Chinese units small enough for this reinforced platoon to beat could easily be ignored or taken out with an airstrike.  This vaguely looks like modified LSTs used in Riverine warfare in Vietnam.
Title: Re: Amphibious Ships, Vessels, and Landing Craft
Post by: Volkodav on June 07, 2020, 06:28:10 PM
Its a stern landing craft that reverses onto the beach.  The idea is they are capable of higher speeds in a seaway and are more seaworthy.