Beyond The Sprues

Current and Finished Projects => Physical Models => Land => Topic started by: Story on June 12, 2017, 09:11:54 PM

Title: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on June 12, 2017, 09:11:54 PM
The Thread Formerly Known as Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955), now expanded to cover several types of coastal defense weapons - more or less MaGuffins that our heroes need to destroy/defend in order to save the day.

Have some Mood Music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtESlTKBa4s&feature=youtu.be) for reading.

So this started out when I came across a pile of parts that use to be a Tamiya 1:35th scale 88mm FLAK gun (built by someone else).
(http://i.imgur.com/0n3Z17W.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/Cbcx2Vw.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/KEEnpS2.jpg)

To my eye, I could see this reborn as a wargaming piece as it looked like one of those rusting pieces of ordnance dotting coastlines from the Pacific to the Aegean to the Baltic and Bering Seas.
(http://i.imgur.com/M2AijCo.jpg)

For background reading, see 
http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.com/2017/04/japanese-fortifications-focus-on-8-inch.html (http://20mmandthensome.blogspot.com/2017/04/japanese-fortifications-focus-on-8-inch.html)
and for 7" guns on Bora Bora
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_7-45_mk2.php (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_7-45_mk2.php)
and then there's the "Singapore guns"
http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/essays/es-ww2-5.html (http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/essays/es-ww2-5.html)

Note for those looking for an easy way out, a simpler solution can be found in the AIRFIX D-Day Gun Emplacement kit (@$16-20 these days).
(http://i.imgur.com/mhkxTIL.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/EnXcg53.jpg)
Anyone who has built up one of those kits, feel free to jump into this thread and share.

So, starting with the remains of the gun, a smoke detector quick-release base and an unfinished wooden lamp base snatched from someone else's trash pile, there was a test-fitting.
(http://i.imgur.com/TK3kvpu.jpg)
Title: Re: Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955) 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on June 12, 2017, 09:17:15 PM
This is a quick-and-dirty butchery project, not brain surgery. Off came the outrigger legs
(http://i.imgur.com/UlxFPTR.jpg)
... and then the smoke detector base was separated into a concrete base and parapet; inverting the center piece of the base so it was smooth-side-up and grinding off the lettering on the outer ring (Pending)
(http://i.imgur.com/5xwK5MR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6xCLv73.jpg)

Next was finding some donor scrap to fashion platforms for the gunners. (http://i.imgur.com/xNqtde5.jpg)

Next was fitting some more scrap material to the base of the kit's shield. (http://i.imgur.com/a0WhBgM.jpg)
Title: Re: Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955) 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: jcf on June 13, 2017, 12:56:38 AM
Cool!

Fort Casey on Whidbey Island here in Washington State has two 10" disappearing-carriage guns
on display at Battery Worth:
(http://www.fortwiki.com/images/1/1f/Fort_Casey_CDSG_Battery_Worth.jpg)
(http://www.fortwiki.com/images/6/60/Fort_Casey_CDSG_Battery_Worth_Gun_-1_-_4.jpg)

And two 3" pedestal guns at Battery Trevor:
(http://www.fortwiki.com/images/b/bd/Fort_Casey_Battery_Trevor_-_00.jpg)
(http://www.fortwiki.com/images/c/cd/Fort_Casey_Battery_Trevor_-_3.jpg)

It's one of three major forts intended to guard the entrance to Puget Sound:
http://www.fortwiki.com/Fort_Casey_(1) (http://www.fortwiki.com/Fort_Casey_(1))
http://www.fortwiki.com/Fort_Flagler (http://www.fortwiki.com/Fort_Flagler)
http://www.fortwiki.com/Fort_Worden (http://www.fortwiki.com/Fort_Worden)
Title: Re: Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955) 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on June 13, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: jcf on June 13, 2017, 12:56:38 AM
Cool!

Fort Casey on Whidbey Island here in Washington State has two 10" disappearing-carriage guns
on display at Battery Worth:
 
([url]http://www.fortwiki.com/images/6/60/Fort_Casey_CDSG_Battery_Worth_Gun_-1_-_4.jpg[/url])
 


Thanks. That side-view is actually very good for anyone wanting to do a disappearing gun - a pair of cylinders swiped from some other kit, a barrel from a 1:35th or 1:25th tank kit & you're halfway there.

Whack-a-mole for Dreadnaughts: The cannon goes up, the cannon goes down. (http://www.web4homes.com/rendezvous/Cannon%20Dissappearing%20CA%201897%2012%20Diagram.png)
(http://www.oocities.org/thetropics/4303/dissapea.gif)

See also http://www.militarymuseum.org/BtyMendell.html (http://www.militarymuseum.org/BtyMendell.html)

NZ layout, meant to deter the Russians in the 1880s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Head,_New_Zealand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Head,_New_Zealand)
(http://i.imgur.com/LbGvK3Q.jpg)
Title: Re: Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955) 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on June 13, 2017, 02:39:11 AM
Take note, mein Peanut Gallery - since we only started with a concept of a general *feel* and we're doing this without plans, blueprints or drawings with divergent salvage, these pics are as much a check for alignment as well as a progress report.

Waste not, want not those Outriggers. They're now load-bearing arms for the shield
(http://i.imgur.com/3eQMDhl.jpg)

Shield lines up from the muzzle - check.
Hmmm, looks asymmetric doesn't it?
Well, if this was from a two-gun 8" naval turret of course it'd be!
This here's the right-hand fed gun.
(http://i.imgur.com/s1fNCf8.jpg)

Tube lines up with load-bearing arms - check.
(http://i.imgur.com/SxRwsi8.jpg)

Vertical alignment - check.
(http://i.imgur.com/cpp6FFQ.jpg)

Unattended woman mocks pretentious Art Museum narratives. Film at 11.
(http://i.imgur.com/C9OWEZt.jpg)

The Jap guns from Tarawa where another inspiration. (http://i.imgur.com/OmlY19Q.jpg)

Here's a YouTube walkabout  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g2_jk87hBY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g2_jk87hBY)
Title: Re: Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955) 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Brian da Basher on June 15, 2017, 06:24:00 AM
Outstanding! The weathering on top the barrel is what really makes it for me.

That and the amazing patience it must've taken to build this wonder!

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: Generic 8"/203mm Coast Defense Gun (1914-1955) 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Buzzbomb on June 15, 2017, 07:13:04 AM
Ayup... I do like where this is going
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on April 07, 2018, 11:08:50 AM
Hey Sports fans. I see it's been a year since I messed with this stuff.

Based on Alistair MacLean's 1957 novel The Guns of Navarone, which was inspired by the Battle of Leros during the Dodecanese Campaign of World War II. (https://i.imgur.com/1Fxt9kG.jpg)

Others claim that the inspiration came from a French battle a year later (http://www.mbpost.com/the-true-story-of-the-guns-of-navarone/288650)

(https://images2.alphacoders.com/823/thumb-350-823507.jpg)
In 1943, the Axis powers plan an assault on the island of Kheros — where 2,000 British soldiers are marooned — to display their military strength and convince neutral Turkey into joining them. Rescue by the Royal Navy is prevented by two massive radar-directed superguns on the (fictional) nearby island of Navarone. When aerial bombing efforts fail, Allied Intelligence gathers a commando unit to infiltrate Navarone and destroy the guns.

Derivative project going on as well, figured I'd keep all my excretions in one place.

(https://i.imgur.com/4H4VASc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/lH7BtBn.jpg)
 (https://i.imgur.com/ddj4Ndm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CvMRxrI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OMzb1ox.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K144NgF.jpg)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 07, 2018, 04:35:37 PM
Wow!  Nice to see this project back on track. 

Enjoyed the movie, never read the book or have forgot that I read the book.  What puzzled me about the guns was the size.  The first time I watch that film was when I was living in the former Panama Canal Zone shortly after the movie was released.  Being too young to know what I was seeing on the screen with regards to the guns it was always a mystery and I assumed in later years that these weapons must have been massive in size.  Watching the film again just recently I realized that the guns were not as massive as I had imagined.  The few scenes where the shells were seen gave me the impression that they were some where around 210mm to 250mm in size.  Looking at the one image you have included above showing the guns in the film it does resemble a French rail gun that was 240mm in caliber.  So your adapting those HO scale rail guns for your project makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on April 07, 2018, 11:07:43 PM
Leros is a specific interest (which is why y'all will eventually see an R-Boat build), and somewhere I have an annotated map of the Italian gun positions on Leros' heights. They were mostly WWI rejects, nothing as massive (or as cinematically engaging) as the twin railroad cannons in the movie. In reality, the amount of effort to set two of those main guns in a mountaintop emplacement would be insane (not that the Nazis weren't nuts to start with).

In reality, the Italian guns never controlled any important shipping lanes which is why this project is more malleable - the items are the sort of wargaming terrain that would allow small-scale naval gamers to side-step into 20mm commando raids; Russian & Japanese (1905 Siberia), Japanese vs pre-Dreadnaught America, Commonwealth or Russians vs Germans (Baltic 1914-1917), Japanese & Commonwealth (Singapore 1941), Commonwealth vs Italians (1940 Asmara), Italians vs Germans (Leros-like 1943), ad nauseum (the more obscure, the better).

As a wargaming tool, large guns would only be a target in a 20mm game but if combined with a naval game, they'd probably be engaging targets on a different map.

Funfact: as I understand it, the tubes used to model the guns in the movie are on display at a beach in Senegal.

nb: This might help visualize *why* this thread will contain different sort of cannons.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7457/12599218175_d5504163b7_b.jpg)

Note that the donor kits - made by several manufacturers over the last decade or two - are out of production now
(https://i.imgur.com/nTvrMRg.jpg)  Beat up/broken/missing parts examples can be found in the usual places.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on April 08, 2018, 03:00:52 AM
Another part of the party mix is the coast mortar, useful for inserting High Explosive through the comparatively-thinner decks of capital ships. Some folks will recognize the battery at Corregidor.

(https://i.imgur.com/6sKrug6.jpg?1)

Other folks will remember this box of junk from OPERATION HIGH JUMP
(http://i.imgur.com/bI0SLf9.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/SPiedWm.jpg?1)

The gun tube is from shattered Warhammer 40K model that was salvaged from someone's trash. A 40mm twin Bofors from a Monogram M42 Duster provided carriage and turntable parts. To allow for maximum elevation, the computer base needed to visit Mr. Hole Saw. (https://i.imgur.com/euoGSVz.jpg?1)

Proof of concept.
(https://i.imgur.com/mVZqktt.jpg?1)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Brian da Basher on April 08, 2018, 05:47:36 AM
Looking every bit the business!

Great stuff.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: tigercat on June 14, 2018, 03:37:19 PM
Epic scale looking forward to more
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on October 26, 2019, 10:02:17 AM
Been awhile.

Look what I found.

https://www.militarymodelscene.com/model-collect-austratt-fort (https://www.militarymodelscene.com/model-collect-austratt-fort)

https://internethobbies.com/products/modelcollect-military-1-72-austratt-fort-coastal-artillery-site-w-triple-28cm-11-inch-gun-turret-caesar-kit (https://internethobbies.com/products/modelcollect-military-1-72-austratt-fort-coastal-artillery-site-w-triple-28cm-11-inch-gun-turret-caesar-kit)

https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Austratt-Fort-Coastal-Artillery-Site-Triple-28cm-Turret-Caesar.html (https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Austratt-Fort-Coastal-Artillery-Site-Triple-28cm-Turret-Caesar.html)

How delightfully excessive.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: finsrin on October 26, 2019, 10:50:06 AM
Noticed kit has four 11" guns.   You get one extra.   Spoze you could make under belly in-out mounting for B-36 to carry gun ?     Load-lower-fire-raise-repeat.   Be ship buster or tank buster.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Old Wombat on October 26, 2019, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: finsrin on October 26, 2019, 10:50:06 AM
Noticed kit has four 11" guns.   You get one extra.   Spoze you could make under belly in-out mounting for B-36 to carry gun ?     Load-lower-fire-raise-repeat.   Be ship buster or tank buster.

Plane buster! :-\



(Hate to think what the recoil from a 28cm (11") gun would do to even a B-36! :o)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Kerick on October 26, 2019, 09:57:25 PM
11” muzzle brake and an all new fuselage design!
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on October 27, 2019, 12:35:30 AM
I leave you people alone for 24 hours and you're all trying to violate the laws of physics, again (54 metric ton cannon with wings). At least build a 1:72nd Martian-splattin' spacecraft around it, like the Japs did with the Yamamoto.

A Blucher-sinkin' Oscarsborg Fortress gun would also be interesting.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:28_cm_gun_at_Oscarsborg_Fortress.jpg (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:28_cm_gun_at_Oscarsborg_Fortress.jpg)

Meanwhile, a site on the Norwegian complex.
http://bunkersite.com/locations/norway/orland/orlandet.php (http://bunkersite.com/locations/norway/orland/orlandet.php)

Moria-like map http://bunkersite.com/images/g/other/noorwegen/orlandet-plan.jpg (http://bunkersite.com/images/g/other/noorwegen/orlandet-plan.jpg)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: finsrin on October 27, 2019, 06:00:41 AM
Quote from: kerick on October 26, 2019, 09:57:25 PM
11” muzzle brake and an all new fuselage design!

Beauty of it is with styrene kit-bash engineering you don't have issues like with aluminum and steel engineering.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on November 01, 2019, 08:21:24 AM
Consider this "Lots of Concrete, not a lot of gun" or 'Thanks for nothing, TODT Organization".

Found this photo amusing, and inspiration for a later project (supposedly, it was one of the guns on the Graf Goetzen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Liemba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Liemba))

(http://i.imgur.com/VmTB6KN.jpg)

So starting with this (http://i.imgur.com/WtExKkf.jpg) and this (http://i.imgur.com/fifZWEb.png), a raid of the parts box yields this... (http://i.imgur.com/m7w0ROf.jpg)

A 1:35th scale Tamiya 3,7cm German antitank gun, a circular deck from a salvaged Airfix Great Western and a white plastic cone that may have come from a Robert E Lee kit.
(http://i.imgur.com/f8Ny52w.jpg)
 
Somewhere between being removed from the sprue and being laid out for trimming, the cannon cradle base disappeared (and was replaced with an M3 Stuart turret base). (http://i.imgur.com/R8Gxwg1.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/zRyLiDv.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/9FSjFyV.jpg)

Next up was the addition of ammunition boxes, gun crew decking and shields.
(http://i.imgur.com/YXPnSLK.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/HaHMPgW.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/PjqcaIa.jpg)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on November 01, 2019, 08:26:42 AM
Art imitates life once again, where surplus ordnance gets repurposed.

During a bout of swamp-draining, I realized that I wasn't going to realistically get around to that ship project as I was carrying this out to the trash.  (https://i.imgur.com/YIhtMxg.jpg)

That'd be the reservoir cap, vent chamber and vent you're looking at here (https://i.imgur.com/nDUUmWj.jpg)

Anyone else see a ranging turret bunker and 7.5cm auto cannon (or thereabouts) turret here?   
Excess material from inside the vent chamber cut away to provide spare concrete slabs. (https://i.imgur.com/Nvapf8c.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/puIIsJQ.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/S2Enwur.jpg)

Suitable for scaling by these guys, of course (https://i.imgur.com/YQZxFQp.jpg)

Perhaps inset into the face of a railroad layout like this? (https://i.imgur.com/x0soHWx.jpg)

Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on November 01, 2019, 08:34:10 AM
So the vent gets split along it's horizontal joint line and the salvaged material becomes inner blast walls.
(https://i.imgur.com/vRP7KVs.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eMaWZmE.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/sjqPZDn.jpg) Also, exterior blast walls and a low wall to shield the crew.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on November 01, 2019, 08:37:38 AM
The biggest construction trick is sizing the excess material so that the turret roof rides at the proper height.

In order to stupid-proof myself from sloppy cutting, the salvaged plastic for the interior has the factory-straight edges on the bottom, so that any material is trimmed off of the top. Likewise, the salvage on the exterior has the factory-straight edges justified to the turret roof.
(https://i.imgur.com/h4hg6mb.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/WTny3f8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on November 01, 2019, 08:39:55 AM
With the turret top and bottom dry-fitted, that leaves trimming, painting and finally, mounting the gun.
(https://i.imgur.com/3031hhu.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/2kFpKX2.jpg)

Current train of thought stops here for the night.
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: finsrin on November 01, 2019, 09:19:56 AM
Oh yes cool.  8)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Old Wombat on November 01, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YQZxFQp.jpg)

I had this set ... oh, what ... 45-50 (?) years ago. ;)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 02, 2019, 03:46:40 AM
Loving your work! :smiley:
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on November 08, 2019, 12:19:52 AM
Quote from: Story on October 26, 2019, 10:02:17 AM
Been awhile.

Look what I found.

https://www.militarymodelscene.com/model-collect-austratt-fort (https://www.militarymodelscene.com/model-collect-austratt-fort)

https://internethobbies.com/products/modelcollect-military-1-72-austratt-fort-coastal-artillery-site-w-triple-28cm-11-inch-gun-turret-caesar-kit (https://internethobbies.com/products/modelcollect-military-1-72-austratt-fort-coastal-artillery-site-w-triple-28cm-11-inch-gun-turret-caesar-kit)

https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Austratt-Fort-Coastal-Artillery-Site-Triple-28cm-Turret-Caesar.html (https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Austratt-Fort-Coastal-Artillery-Site-Triple-28cm-Turret-Caesar.html)

How delightfully excessive.

Inspirational followup - scratch-built 1/72nd Yamamoto turret
(https://i.imgur.com/EYm7fsJ.jpg?1)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: GTX_Admin on November 08, 2019, 04:10:53 AM
Wow!!!
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on April 11, 2020, 12:56:53 AM
Finally got it into the paint shop. The shield is removable (so splinter protected or not) and just set upon the supports, which is why it looks cockeyed in some pics.

AIRFIX DAK MP-40 gunner (painted 30 years ago) hanging out to illustrate 18/20mm scale.

(https://i.imgur.com/g1syizl.jpg?2)(https://i.imgur.com/6bBxJFp.jpg?1)(https://i.imgur.com/IFtkJyA.jpg)
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on April 11, 2020, 01:13:00 AM
Good to see this project again and so close to being finished.  GoN was a great action film when I was a kid but as an adult with additional knowledge on the subject it lost a lot of its original appeal. 
Title: Re: The Guns of Navarone, 20mm/HO Scale
Post by: Story on April 16, 2024, 03:43:59 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/55/93/4a/55934ab63e24f9339587be9d0e079171.jpg)

Working up some inspiration.


I think I need something like this

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t45.5328-4/433225684_954372365812344_2300553744767337717_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p720x720&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=247b10&_nc_ohc=rWoWPlP14twAb5r2PNX&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfBhjmFQuv1nabmfPgABEMTAVka8qbH-O9VgxB896SGLzA&oe=66234DC9)