Author Topic: AVRO Lancaster, Manchester, Lincoln and Shackleton (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 86355 times)

Offline kitnut617

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I think that is because of the under-engine frame support Greg, it sort of blocks the direct line to the intake of the compressor.  On the Shackleton set-up, they went with a 'hanger-type' frame so you wouldn't need the bifucal intake of the FTB.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Fair point.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline PR19_Kit

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BTW, if you look closely you will see two intakes (one on either side) of the Lincoln nose.

Those look bizarre, very small for the horsepower and remarkably crude! An annular intake surrounding the prop would have made much more sense I'd have thought.
Regards
Kit

--------------------------
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

Offline Queeg

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My take on a modifed Lanc ....... I'm almost tempted to try and build this for my '46 British.


Offline PR19_Kit

  • Likes to brag about how long his...wings are.
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How about adding 4 x Griffons, just to ensure it stays airborne?
Regards
Kit

--------------------------
Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings

Offline Queeg

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How about adding 4 x Griffons, just to ensure it stays airborne?

Ahhh don't underestimate the mighty Merlin. The 66 put out around 1600hp, the last Merlins design for the Sea Hornet were pushing 2000hp.
In comparison the the Cyclone and the Twin-Wasp of the Fortress and Liberator maxed at around 1200hp.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Take the same fuselage but lose the guns and turrets and H2S radar but add in refuelling hose...result:  AAR Lanc!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Queeg

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Take the same fuselage but lose the guns and turrets and H2S radar but add in refuelling hose...result:  AAR Lanc!

Yeah, that'd be interesting! Maybe some Spits or Mossies with some sort of fueling probe ...... wonder how that would look/work.
It'd also look good in a Maritime scheme ....... or maybe it could carry a Tallboy internally? Modified airlaunched Bloodhound even ....

Offline kitnut617

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Take the same fuselage but lose the guns and turrets and H2S radar but add in refuelling hose...result:  AAR Lanc!

Yeah, that'd be interesting! Maybe some Spits or Mossies with some sort of fueling probe ...... wonder how that would look/work.
It'd also look good in a Maritime scheme ....... or maybe it could carry a Tallboy internally? Modified airlaunched Bloodhound even ....

The Lanc' did carry the Tallboy internally ---

I think if I was going to do something like your profile, I would go half above the wing (level with the top of the original canopy) and half below it (smooth out the bottom of a bulged bomb bay)  then maybe you could carry a Grand Slam internally
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 11:57:54 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline Logan Hartke

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Maybe he was thinking about the Grand Slam?

Cheers,

Logan

Offline kitnut617

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Beat me by a millisecond Logan   ;D

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
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Take the same fuselage but lose the guns and turrets and H2S radar but add in refuelling hose...result:  AAR Lanc!

Or keep the nose & tail turrets in case (Gods forbid!) your flying fuel tank ran into fighters. :o

:)

Guy
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Queeg

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The Lanc' did carry the Tallboy internally ---

I think if I was going to do something like your profile, I would go half above the wing (level with the top of the original canopy) and half below it (smooth out the bottom of a bulged bomb bay)  then maybe you could carry a Grand Slam internally

Yeah I knew it was one of them and took a stab, should've looked it up obviously .........

I might try a mid or high wing to see what it looks like. The low wing looks racy imo, about as racy as a thing this size can be, sort of Orion precursor but without the sleek looks.  I thought tricycle undercarriage too .......

Offline kitnut617

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I might try a mid or high wing to see what it looks like. The low wing looks racy imo, about as racy as a thing this size can be, sort of Orion precursor but without the sleek looks.  I thought tricycle undercarriage too .......

That's called a Shackleton  ----    ;)

check out reply #9 in this thread --

Offline Volkodav

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GAF built Lincolns but flew US built Liberators during the war, why not GAF or DAP as it was then, building Lancasters during the war, as Canada did, then follow the with Lincolns and then Shackletons? 

There could even be a bomber version of the Shackleton that GAF builds from the late 40s before building the MPA Shackleton instead of the Lincoln Mk31.  Both could be built in improved versions through the 50s for the bomber and into the 60s for the MPA incorporating advanced compound engines then turboprops as well as improved weapons, systems, sensors etc.  The bomber would eventually be replaced early 60s with V Bombers while the MPA would be replaced with a jet MPA in the 70s or even the 80s.  There could be a multitude of special variants, AEW, ESM, even attack versions developed for COIN in the maritime and littoral environment during the Malayan Emergency and Indonesian Confrontation but then successfully employed over Vietnam.

The Canberra would still have entered service but as a replacement for the Mosquito, Beaufighter and Beaufort while the Lincoln, Shackleton and Shackleton like bomber would have been replacements for the wartime heavies and Sunderlands, i.e. a larger more diverse RAAF. ;)

Offline GTX_Admin

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What about an AVRO Lancastrian or York with the wings and engines of an AVRO Lincoln or Shackleton ...possibly even going to the tricycle undercarriage of later Shack's?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Volkodav

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Why not and then get GAF to build that as well for RAAF transport sqns as well as QANTAS and ANA

Offline Rickshaw

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What about an AVRO Lancastrian or York with the wings and engines of an AVRO Lincoln or Shackleton ...possibly even going to the tricycle undercarriage of later Shack's?

Isn't that essentially what an AVRO Tudor is?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Partially...except the Tudors for the most part had RR Merlins
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Does anyone produce a kit or conversion of the York, Lancastrian or Tudor in 1/48?
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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The wing of the Tudor is a Shackleton wing, and a Shackleton wing is not like a Lincoln wing. It just looks similar.  The Lincoln wing originates from the Manchester wing. This had the engine nacelle spaced from the fuselage so a 16 foot prop could be installed on the Vulture engines (they never got the engine developed far enough to do this so the biggest prop diameter used was about 14 feet). When the Manchester was redesigned to except four Merlins, this inner wing was left as it was and it followed suit on the Lincoln. Even though the outer wing was progressively lengthened, the wing tip height to the ground remained the same which led to the dihedral angle being reduced from Lancaster to Lincoln. This dihedral starts just outboard of the inner nacelles.

The Shackelton wing was designed for 12'-6" /13'-0" diameter props from the start which reduced the distance between the engine nacelle and the fuselage side and the dihedral starts on the center line of the inner nacelles. However, the Shackleton's fuselage is 8 feet wide compared to the Manchester/Lancaster/Lincoln 6 foot wide fuselage. This makes the overall span of the Lincoln and Shackleton wings about the same.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 11:22:37 PM by kitnut617 »

Offline GTX_Admin

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One I wasn't aware of but which fits the bill:  Avro 695 Lincolnian

« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:04:19 AM by GTX_Admin »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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You could also do that to a Shackleton, and as it's got a wider fuselage (and later tri-gear) would make more sense

Offline GTX_Admin

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Agreed.  Maybe even have a small rearward dropping ramp for a freighter version.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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I've thought about sticking Shackleton wings/tail on a York and making it tri-gear, plus re-profiling the lower fuselage at the rear to accept a ramp