Author Topic: Business and regional jets  (Read 17262 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2021, 03:04:45 AM »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2021, 07:56:20 AM »
Well, that's one way to recycle a Learjet Model 25.  I can appreciate that it has been christened "Limo-Jet".  It might be a bit easier to do the same thing with a Model 23 or Model 24 fuselage, since they are shorter.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 07:59:41 AM by elmayerle »

Offline dy031101

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2021, 10:33:56 AM »
The increased frequency of PLAAF/PLANAF probing flights (which frequently consist of various Y-8-based reconnaissance aircraft and H-6 bombers rather than Su-27-based fighters) around Taiwan have gotten some local enthusiasts thinking of a cheap-to-operate, maybe high-endurance stalker aircraft to monitor the large reconnaissance or bomber planes and by extension save airframe hours of F-CK-1s and F-16s for those flown with actual fighters.

Which reminds me of the HU-25C Guardian (incidentally, ROCAF would likely have quite a few surplus APG-66V(3) lying around upon the conclusion of the F-16V project)...... although I surmise that the platform has to be able to keep up with the cruise speed and service ceiling of the H-6K.

The Embraer Phenom 100 is mentioned in one of those discussions in comparison against the Textron Scorpion...... although so far I like the Phenom 300 better.  The H-6K can outrun all three at top speed, but the Phenom 300 at least has a higher cruise speed, and the available internal space can be converted into more internal fuel.  Having said that, neither version of the Phenom appears to have room in the nose for a radar.

Comments and suggestions would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 11:05:00 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline apophenia

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2021, 10:18:50 AM »
... thinking of a cheap-to-operate, maybe high-endurance stalker aircraft to monitor the large reconnaissance or bomber planes and by extension save airframe hours of F-CK-1s and F-16s ...


That dove-tailled with some of my musings on the fate of first-generation Learjets. If older, cheaper bizjet 'interceptors' are of interest, see:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg183961#msg183961

As for comments and suggestions,  are qualified bizjet pilots readily available to the ROCAF? In the current political climate, I'm wondering if Taiwan might not get a more cooperation out of the US administration and FMS process?

If so, what about snagging some of the early F-16As now in storage at Davis-Monthan AFB? Not as capable as the ROCAF Vipers but wouldn't have any trouble catching up with an H-6! And if pilots are in short supply, start up the AVG again  ;)
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2021, 02:17:00 AM »
That dove-tailled with some of my musings on the fate of first-generation Learjets. If older, cheaper bizjet 'interceptors' are of interest, see:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=351.msg183961#msg183961

As for comments and suggestions......


Thanx  :smiley:

...... are qualified bizjet pilots readily available to the ROCAF?


Yeah...... that would be an issue to be addressed.
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline GTX_Admin

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All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2023, 04:42:13 AM »
Just a thought, a USN-opereated equivalent of the JMSDF U-36A version of the Learjet as an ETC-21B airacraft for simulating electronic attacks on fleet elements.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 08:20:21 AM by elmayerle »

Offline apophenia

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2023, 05:21:21 AM »
Real world proposal: ...

There a bit of DNA in there from Saab's Swordfish MPA platform ...

Non-Real world proposal: https://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10341.msg198351#msg198351
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2023, 08:22:00 AM »
Wish someone would bring out in 1/48 a conversion kit and decals for the Learjet 35s operated by Finland.  I know they have some special mods but I don't remember all the details.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2023, 11:31:39 AM »
Wish someone would bring out in 1/48 a conversion kit and decals for the Learjet 35s operated by Finland.  I know they have some special mods but I don't remember all the details.

Evan: A bunch of Ilmavoimat LJ details here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235083664-finnish-air-force-learjet-35a/
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2023, 01:50:01 AM »
Wish someone would bring out in 1/48 a conversion kit and decals for the Learjet 35s operated by Finland.  I know they have some special mods but I don't remember all the details.

Some details here:  https://ilmavoimat.fi/documents/1951206/2016308/Finnish+Air+Force+Fact+Sheet+-+Gates+Learjet+35+%28JUL+18%29.pdf/39463e19-52f6-43a6-ac4d-ebb7400ad31a/Finnish+Air+Force+Fact+Sheet+-+Gates+Learjet+35+%28JUL+18%29.pdf.pdf
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2023, 06:59:23 AM »
Thank you both for those links.  I remember these aircraft because they were produced while I worked for GLC.  The original drop hatch design was rather more pronounced, and the Learjet wind tunnel people had a devil of a time getting its aerodynamics to work with that large under-fuselage radar pod.  What you see in the references is what finally developed.  Does anyone make decals for these in 1/48?  I am really tempted to combine the ELINT/SIGINT mods from the Finnish Learjets with the JMSDF's U-36A configuration as part of producing an ETC-21B EW trainer, perhaps in USN markings akin to what their EB-47's wore "back in the day".

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2023, 01:53:22 AM »
Well Axel Grundmann did this one in 1/48:



More info
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2023, 04:01:53 AM »
^ Nice!!! Seeing that makes me want to hang on to my Sword U-125A!

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2023, 06:12:57 AM »
Well Axel Grundmann did this one in 1/48:



More info
Anyone know where I can find 1/48 decals for the Finnish Learjets?  That does look quite attractive.

Offline upnorth

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2023, 12:58:23 PM »
I was lucky enough to see one of the Norwegian Falcon 20 ECM machines at a show a few years ago:


They retired the type in Autumn of 2022 and its duties will be taken over by the P-8 Poseidon.

One thing I wonder about some bizjets is their suitability for conversion to UAV roles. I know they created a UAV version of the Piaggio Avanti bizprop, so I'm sure some bizjets have the potential.

If one didn't need to worry about the comforts of human occupants, I think som bizjet design could be easily adjusted for unmanned roles.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2023, 02:29:13 AM »

Anyone know where I can find 1/48 decals for the Finnish Learjets?  That does look quite attractive.

I don't believe there are any per se but you could either repurpose some from another kit/decal set or perhaps get some custom ones made.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2023, 02:36:19 AM »
One thing I wonder about some bizjets is their suitability for conversion to UAV roles. I know they created a UAV version of the Piaggio Avanti bizprop, so I'm sure some bizjets have the potential.

Most definitely.

I actually have plans to do up a 1/72 Broplan Tp102D Gulfstream G550 as an unmanned refuelling tanker for a couple of 1/72 Platz X-47B US Navy UCAS.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Business and regional jets
« Reply #68 on: July 29, 2023, 10:52:44 AM »
Well, I found a good reference for the Finnish Learjets.  MMP's "Finnish Jet Colours" has a whole chapter on them.  I remember them well as they were built at Learjet while I was working there.

Also, MBI's book, Learjet has a good shot of a Finnish Learjet from underneath that other books do not have.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 08:27:48 AM by elmayerle »