Author Topic: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...  (Read 12063 times)

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« on: January 17, 2014, 07:55:35 AM »
So, search revealed no Tiger Moth thread and with the new Airfix kit ...

Tiger Moth Fighter, yep 'twas real.  ;D





Illustrations and text from Armament of British Aircraft, H.F. King (normally I don't copy/quote complete
passages, in this case I'm making an exception.)

Tiger Moth The Tiger Moth appeared in 1931. Quickly establishing itself
as a trainer, it also showed adaptability for armament practice or offensive
work. Installations were made of a camera gun on the starboard lower
wing and an Aldis sight bracketed to the starboard side of the fuselage,
and also of a carrier for 20-lb bombs beneath the fuselage, this last in conjunction
with a vertical tubular sight and release quadrant. One Tiger
Moth (E.6) was built solely for offensive work as the Tiger Moth Fighter,
and the makers announced:
   'We are now able to offer the Tiger Moth as a single-seater fighter
   fitted with a machine gun firing forward through the propeller, and also
   capable of carrying eight bombs of 20-lb each. A fairly substantial order
   has been received from an important foreign Government for Tiger
   single-seater fighters fitted with Gipsy Major engines, on which we have
   now completed full firing tests, both on the ground and in the air. The
   machine gun is air-cooled, weighs only 9-5 kilos, and is manufactured by
   the Czechoslovakian Arms Factory of Prague. A Pratt and Whitney
   synchronising gear is fitted, which is very light and efficient, the drive
   being taken from the top half of the rear cover of the engine, where provision
   for hand-starting gear is normally allowed for. The gun is
   mounted in the front cockpit, and shoots directly over the top engine
   cowling. The ammunition box, holding 200 rounds, and the cartridge
   shute, are fixed to the mounting itself, and the only connections between
   the gun, gun mounting and fuselage are four holding-down bolts. The
   cocking handle is connected only by a cotter pin to the lever which acts
   on the gun. In order to protect the workings of the gun it has been
   cowled in. An Aldis telescopic (sic) gun sight is provided for long-distance
   firing. The ordinary ring-and-bead sight for "dog-fighting" can be fittedas
   an alternative, or together with the Aldis . . .'

Tests were made with a disc fitted to the propeller and it was claimed:
   'The results of the official ground and air acceptance test were as
   follows: (1) Pulling over the propeller by hand, the first round penetrated
   the disc 19-i deg. after top dead centre. (2) Dispersion throughout
   the entire speed range occurred between the angles 45 deg. to 86 deg. ;
   that is to say through an arc of 41 deg. (3) Propeller speeds varied from
   800 to 2,400 r.p.ni. These results are absolutely satisfactory.'

Clearly D.H. were rather pleased with their little trainer as a fighting
machine, but they could hardly have foreseen that the Tiger would actually
go to war-and not in the service of a foreign nation but wearing the
roundels of the RAF. Like the D.H.5 before, it was pressed into service as
an anti-submarine aircraft with four 20-lb bombs under the wings. For
anti-invasion duties astonishing devices were schemed, among which a tray
of Mills bombs was one of the least spectacular. These devices are beyond
the scope of the present review, and Tiger Moth enthusiasts will already
have been apprised of them by Messrs Bramson and Birch's Tiger Moth
Story (Cassell, 1964). The present writer's contribution to the continuing
story of the Tiger is the foregoing fragment of history.


“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2014, 03:45:30 AM »
My favourite Tiger Moth scheme:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 11:18:08 AM »
My daughter's too, now.  ;D

Offline Daryl J.

  • Assures us he rarely uses model glue in dentistry
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2014, 07:28:45 AM »
And then there were the  yellow Baby Moths from Airfix all folded up and hatching in a tree. :)
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 04:10:52 AM »
Any tiger Moth fans out there?


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline upnorth

  • Distorting a reality near you.
  • You want maple syrup on that Macchi?
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 02:43:31 PM »
I wonder if it could be tricked out like the Polikarpov Po-2.  The Allies on the Western Front could form their own version of the Night Witches units to harass the Germans with.

Did anyone ever try putting a radial engine onto a Tiger moth?

Pickled Wings, A Blog for Preserved Aircraft:
http://pickledwings.com/

Beyond Prague, Traveling the Rest of the Czech Republic:
http://beyondprague.net/

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 03:32:14 AM »
There was the radio-controlled Queen-Bee drone - haven't been able to find any original pics tho.  Mods included RC gear replacing the rear seat & adding cockpit-cover, cables to the controls in front cockpit, a windmill on port side (to power RC gear) & some bomb carrier device.

Several good Moth pics on the Wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WCAM_Tiger_Moth.jpg

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2014, 05:34:15 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2014, 05:37:46 AM »
Did anyone ever try putting a radial engine onto a Tiger moth?

Not that I am aware of.  It would certainly be a good one to try so as to make some heads turn. ;)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding...
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2014, 09:39:42 PM »
A turbo-prop was installed on a Chipmunk, wonder if it could go on a Tiger Moth

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 01:49:23 AM »
Considering that an Allison 250 has been fitted to a Great Lakes biplane, I wouldn't see any problems fitting one to a Tiger Moth.  You migth need some material changes to the fuel system to be compatible with turbine fuel, though.

Offline raafif

  • Is formally accused of doing nasty things to DC-3s...and officially our first whiffing zombie
  • Whiffing Insane
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 09:56:26 AM »
would you have to change the wings to swept or variable geometry types .....  ??? ;D

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 10:38:40 AM »
How about a pure jet powered Tiger Moth?   ;D

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 10:40:51 AM »
How about a pure jet powered Tiger Moth?   ;D


Maybe something similar to the Coandă-1910:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 11:07:20 AM »
would you have to change the wings to swept or variable geometry types .....  ??? ;D
Well, the Great Lakes flew with stock wings, but it was most highly maneuverable and could climb like you wouldn't believe.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 03:47:08 PM »
How about a pure jet powered Tiger Moth?   ;D


Maybe something similar to the Coandă-1910:




Perhaps a little more refined.  Perhaps like the Yak-15?  With a small Marbore turbjet?

Offline kitnut617

  • Measures the actual aircraft before modelling it...we have the photographic evidence.
  • Holding Pattern
  • *
  • I'd rather be dirtbike riding...
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 09:53:21 PM »
Considering that an Allison 250 has been fitted to a Great Lakes biplane, I wouldn't see any problems fitting one to a Tiger Moth.  You migth need some material changes to the fuel system to be compatible with turbine fuel, though.

The engine in the Chipmunk was a Rover TP.90 of about 90 constant hp. (120 hp. for take-off)

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2014, 02:05:04 AM »
Considering that an Allison 250 has been fitted to a Great Lakes biplane, I wouldn't see any problems fitting one to a Tiger Moth.  You migth need some material changes to the fuel system to be compatible with turbine fuel, though.

The engine in the Chipmunk was a Rover TP.90 of about 90 constant hp. (120 hp. for take-off)
That would be more suitable for the Tiger Moth than an Allison 250 which hasa rather higher rating.  I'll stand by my comment on fuel system materials, though; elastomerics, such as O-rings and hoses would be the main concern.  I remember how much headache going from 80/87 to 100LL avgas in the 1970's caused and I would think jet fuel could likely cause similar problems.

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2014, 02:13:32 AM »
How about a pure jet powered Tiger Moth?   ;D


Maybe something similar to the Coandă-1910:




Perhaps a little more refined.  Perhaps like the Yak-15?  With a small Marbore turbjet?


Actually, I was thinking of using much the same concept as the Coandă-1910.  That is, a piston engine driving a compressor that exhausts into a duct.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline jcf

  • Global Moderator
  • Turn that Gila-copter down!
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2014, 02:20:23 AM »
How about a pure jet powered Tiger Moth?   ;D


Maybe something similar to the Coandă-1910:




Perhaps a little more refined.  Perhaps like the Yak-15?  With a small Marbore turbjet?


Actually, I was thinking of using much the same concept as the Coandă-1910.  That is, a piston engine driving a compressor that exhausts into a duct.


But something that would actually work? Unlike Coanda's design.  ;)
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline GTX_Admin

  • Evil Administrator bent on taking over the Universe!
  • Administrator - Yep, I'm the one to blame for this place.
  • Whiffing Demi-God!
    • Beyond the Sprues
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2014, 02:47:46 AM »
Oh there you go, putting unrealistic expectations on me... ;)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Silver Fox

  • Talk to me Goose!
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2014, 06:27:52 AM »
In theory it can work. Model jet aircraft use ducted fans powered by small engines or even electric motors. I think the fan would have to be geared up rather high though... 20k RPM (+) is where model fans operate.

Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2014, 07:12:48 AM »
In theory it can work. Model jet aircraft use ducted fans powered by small engines or even electric motors. I think the fan would have to be geared up rather high though... 20k RPM (+) is where model fans operate.
Scale the fan up to adequate size for a real aircraft and you start running into problems at that RPM, like sonic tip speeds and all the problems from that.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2014, 11:26:04 AM »
Well the Caproni N.1 worked OK with a piston engine driven compressor:


Offline elmayerle

  • Its about time there was an Avatar shown here...
  • Über Engineer...at least that is what he tells us.
Re: DH 82 Tiger Moth ...
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2014, 12:54:54 PM »
But poorly, in terms of performance.