Author Topic: swept wing pusher bi-plane  (Read 23374 times)

Offline arkon

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swept wing pusher bi-plane
« on: February 21, 2012, 12:00:36 PM »
this is my new brain twist


just need a few more parts to finish.
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Offline finsrin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 12:07:28 PM »
Am waiting and watching......  :)

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 05:57:11 PM »
Anything with "biplane" in the title sure has my attention!

Brian da Basher

Offline JP Vieira

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 07:13:08 PM »
This should be very interesting... :)

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 09:55:42 PM »
Sounds interesting. Proceed!
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline sotoolslinger

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 10:52:30 PM »
Yes please. Hey I sent you enough decals to do her up Texican >:D ;)

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 01:15:10 PM »
got some done tonite :)

have to make the lower wing out of plasic sheet





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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 04:47:52 PM »
Interesting...
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Offline sotoolslinger

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 12:13:45 AM »
Very cool looking ac

Offline Doom!

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 01:22:31 AM »
I like it :)   
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Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 02:21:16 AM »
Wow!!  :-*
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 05:01:07 AM »
YOWSA!!!

I don't know if you've figured out the struts yet, but you can use wooden toothpicks in a pinch.

Brian da Basher

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 07:31:15 AM »
i got some strutsfrom the neiport but i dont like them so i will probly form my own from some 1/8 plastic sheet.
whats killin me is the guns, igot one lewis  and one spandua(?) in 1/48. got a bunch of 30's n 50's in 1/72 but they just look way to small. i want two belt fed guns ......but we will see what happens. been thinkin about a gatling or something..........
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Offline apophenia

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 11:46:20 AM »
Son of the Burgess-Dunne :)  Cool concept!
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Offline jschmus

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 05:24:05 PM »
Looks like an ancestor to the Hughes Devastator of Crimson Skies fame:

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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 06:49:23 AM »
love that game, got it on my old x-box! (no red ring of death so far).
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Offline Tophe

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 12:09:48 PM »
Nice! Go on!

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 01:00:05 PM »
workin on some intakes for the engine




do not like the square ish engine cover but its what i got. but with i get to make the scoops!!!
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 01:00:33 PM »
It reminds me of a Westland Hill Pterodactyl :
http://www.aviastar.org/air/england/west_pterodactyl5.php

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 02:20:51 PM »
ok dear sirs,(and to all that are here)  i am thinking what if ww1 went more tank heavy and the germans came out with the first tank killer aircraft? i am thinkin a 20mm or 30 mm gun. i read the brits had a 37 for balloon bustin.
   what would be the outside barrel diameter for those said type of guns?
thank you all
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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 10:38:33 PM »
This kitbash meets with my approval....

Offline sotoolslinger

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 10:44:22 PM »
Sweet progress so far. Hey bubba let me see how many guns I can come up with for you >:D

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 11:35:49 PM »
ok dear sirs,(and to all that are here)  i am thinking what if ww1 went more tank heavy and the germans came out with the first tank killer aircraft? i am thinkin a 20mm or 30 mm gun. i read the brits had a 37 for balloon bustin.
   what would be the outside barrel diameter for those said type of guns?
thank you all

 Hmmm. You've got three 'real world' options, maybe four. The Germans fielded a 13 mm bolt-action
 rifle called the T-gewehr, really the first anti-tank rifle. A heavy machine gun the TuF ( Tank und Flieger )
 based on the same 13mm round-it looks like an oversized Maxim or Vickers. A 20 mm cannon, the
 Becker ( that eventually, after another development cycle, became the famous Oerlikon ) and a
 short barreled 37 mm cannon that I don't know too much about.

 The Germans did experiment
 with downward firing machine guns, but they weren't too successful from what I've read-problems
 in aiming them effectively given the pilot's view. But if you're building this as a two seater, who's to
 say they wouldn't have put an observer/gunner in a forward gondola, just under the nose?

Offline apophenia

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2012, 12:03:38 PM »
... TuF ( Tank und Flieger )  based on the same 13mm round-it looks like an oversized Maxim or Vickers...

Yes, it was a scaled up Maxim MG08 and available in 1918.

... a  short barreled 37 mm cannon that I don't know too much about...

Perhaps the Maxim-Nordenfelt 37mm autocannon? Another scaled-up Maxim, this one had been around since before the Boer War so it'd be well-proven.
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2012, 10:05:59 AM »
any pics of those two?
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Offline apophenia

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2012, 11:12:51 AM »
Sure ... Maschinen-Fabrik Augsberg-Nurnberg MG 18 TuF:
http://www.cruffler.com/Features/FEB-02/Maxim13mmTuF.jpg

Maxim Flak: http://www.kaisersbunker.com/cc/cc18c.jpg [sideview sketches]
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Maxim-Nordenfelt%2037mm/prion_photos/DSC_0034.jpg

Finding good online images of the 37mm Maxim-Nordenfelt can be a little tricky because the name kept changing and/or has since been mis-applied to other autocannons (Hotchkiss or Krupp) in German service. If you want to search further, you might try:

* 3,7 cm Masch. K (3,7cm Maschinenkanone) -- Kaiserliche Marine name
* 3,7 cm M FLAK (3,7cm Maxim Flak) -- Deutsches Heer name
* 3,7 cm Flak M 14 (3,7cm Flak Modele 1914) -- Reichswehr name

BTW, there was also an experimental Gast-Flieger MG firing the same 13x92SR round as the MG 18 TuF. As the name (and air-cooled barrels) suggest, the twin-barrelled Gast-Flieger was intended for aircraft use from the outset. It's less clear whether TuF was actually meant to be aircraft mounted ... but, then again, this is what-if  ;)
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 06:58:02 AM »
just a little more progress







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Offline apophenia

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 10:20:31 AM »
Looking good  :)  So, backward stagger like the Airco DH.5?
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Offline finsrin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 04:35:46 PM »
Am following and liking. 
This is good and without an engine hogging front of fuselage or a propeller to shoot thru, it can be a WW1 equivalent to P-39.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 10:27:24 PM »
Excellent job!  :)
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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2012, 08:24:36 AM »
ok. trying to figure out the landing gear. one wheel on each lower wing with a frame underneath the nose for a front? or a skyhook for zepplin duty? or a open tube frame out the back to make it a tail dragger?

hmmmm...
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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2012, 01:12:24 PM »
any thoughts or ideas?
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2012, 04:08:46 PM »
Nose wheel + standard WWI style undercarriage at the rear?
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2012, 08:02:37 PM »
Whatever you do.. this is looking great

Offline raafif

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2012, 03:04:56 PM »
definately a trapeze-hook for a Zepplin  please :)

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2012, 11:37:56 PM »
Here's another vote for the skyhook. There's definitely not enough skyhooks.

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Offline raafif

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2012, 01:36:20 PM »
I discount Brian's vote for the trapeze due to his total self-interest ! ...... he just wants to build the airship to hang it from ;D

Offline finsrin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2012, 01:43:33 PM »
Here's another vote for the skyhook. There's definitely not enough skyhooks.

Brian da Basher

Bu, Bu, But...   that would mean no spats   :o

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2012, 05:02:07 AM »
Here's another vote for the skyhook. There's definitely not enough skyhooks.

Brian da Basher

Bu, Bu, But...   that would mean no spats   :o

Ok spats and a skyhook! Just like the Sparrowhawks flying up to the Macon!

Go with a spat up front and two in back under the wings.

Brian da Basher

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2012, 08:54:17 AM »
sorry bdb, but i am goin with tricycle type gear(but may still put a sky hook, with the wheels as emergency landing alt.) worked on the gear some last nite will post pics later .
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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2012, 01:31:43 PM »




workin on the nose gear,post some pics after the great day. july 4
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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2012, 02:57:18 AM »
Who could complain about three very lovely streamlined spats?

Looks like you're making excellent progress!

Brian da Basher

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2012, 04:54:48 AM »
I just remembered that a while back I drew something similar in concept to what you are building:

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Offline raafif

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2012, 06:52:50 AM »
you forgot to flip the top wing over, Greg :D

my coloured Ssortabla .....   & a half-hearted try at a Lemac ....

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 12:48:07 AM »
i like the rudders on that one gtx, may do something simular on mine.
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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2012, 05:41:07 AM »


not to thrilled about the muzzle brake on the cannon so i am workin on something else,but i do think the landing gear came out ok.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2012, 04:34:18 PM »
Looking good.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2012, 06:09:16 PM »
Nice work on the landing gear! Looks like it belongs!

Brian da Basher

Offline Tophe

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2012, 01:15:42 AM »
Weird!

Offline apophenia

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2012, 07:02:39 AM »
... but i do think the landing gear came out ok.

Yep! And I love the anhedral on the lower wings  :)
Froglord: "... amphibious doom descends ... approach the alter and swear your allegiance to the swamp."

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2012, 01:40:00 PM »
new and improved muzzle brake! first time using pinvise drill! very happy with it, though holes could bemore uniform. oh and some canards for the front and some mock up vert stabs.
 thinkin a name like dragonfly(but in german).not sure which manufacture would have made this.(not good at backstory or thinkin things all the wat though.)





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Offline raafif

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2012, 05:11:13 AM »
thinkin a name like dragonfly(but in german).not sure which manufacture would have made this

Looks something like a Lippschish type design ?  possibly more French tho ?

Whatever it is .... it's weird enough to demand that someone (Hobbycraft ?) make a kit of it :)

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2012, 05:53:13 PM »
Looks great.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2012, 08:40:49 AM »
Y'know, that looks like a biplane version of a MiG-8 in general lines.  That does suggest some possibilities.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2012, 08:48:00 AM »
I really like the change in direction this project has taken! The new gun is a great fit as well as those way cool twin rudders!

Lippisch definitely! The International Translator says the German word for dragonfly is "Drachefliege" but hopefully you'll get a more authoritative answer from one of our native, German-speaking members.

Looks absolutely killer!

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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2012, 12:27:52 PM »
Excellent design!  :) The First Whif World War needs more designs like this!

 
<...> The International Translator says the German word for dragonfly is "Drachefliege" but hopefully you'll get a more authoritative answer from one of our native, German-speaking members. <...>

The German word for dragonfly is "Libelle". Drachenfliege is a very literal translation of the word that I've never heard used for dragonflies. However, a quick Google search reveals that Drachenfliege was actually listed as a name for dragonflies in an encyclopaedia from 1858.  :icon_surprised: Oh well, you live and learn.
Lippisch Libelle has a natural ring to it, I think.  :)
Cheers,
Moritz

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Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2012, 12:44:21 PM »
Thank you, Moritz. When I first plugged dragonfly into the translator, it came back with Libelle which seemed oddly French and I thought that couldn't be right.

Then I tried dragon fly as two words and got Drachenfliege which seemed better. Good to have a native German speaker's input!

I've got to agree, the Lippisch Libelle certainly rolls nicely off the tongue.

Brian da Basher

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2012, 12:47:14 PM »
lippisch libelle mk4 it shall be.     but i did like drachenfliege. it made me think dragon .
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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 02:02:03 PM »
just a couple o questions,should i stick on the secondary air to air gun seen in the last pic? if so where?
what do you guys think about a strut between the upper n lowwer wings? to me "in reality" it needs one, but i think it screws up the look of it.it is supposed to be " if ww1 went into 1919 or so" ,so i think they could have stronger wings with no need for bracing.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 06:27:44 PM »
Re gun:  maybe, though you might find weight would be an issue.  If you do use it, I would put it on the fuselage immediately ahead of the pilot.

Re the strut, you could possibly get rid of it.  The Fokker Dr.1 for instance featured interplane struts in production models but these were not necessary from a structural standpoint, but rather minimized wing flexing.  Early prototypes actually didn't have them:

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2012, 02:36:02 AM »
Do a strut from the tip of the lower wing to the tip of the upper wing on each side; it would be efficient without a lot of rigging.

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2012, 07:56:12 AM »
Looking at the thickness of the wings, I think you can get away without any struts as Mr GTX suggested. I especially like the nod that gives to the Fokker Dr. I.

If you do decide to add struts, Mr Elmayerle's idea should definitely be considered.

Brian da Basher


Offline raafif

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2012, 08:21:11 AM »
cries out for the Pink lozenge cam scheme :icon_fsm:

Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2012, 08:42:43 AM »
thanks for the ideas,think i might put the gun on in the center and not go with the wing struts.
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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2012, 12:41:22 PM »
primer

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Offline arkon

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2013, 11:02:20 AM »
long time in postying on this one but the new child changes my build times.( from slow to glacier)
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2013, 11:57:22 AM »
Looks good. :)
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2013, 12:56:31 PM »
Worth the wait! and besides anything is faster than stopped... my current pace.
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline finsrin

  • The Dr Frankenstein of the modelling world...when not hiding from SBA
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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2013, 02:05:10 PM »
A unique build  :)
You have those pieces playing together well in that configuration. :)
Is another wanna do kinda build for my airforce.

Offline Tophe

  • He sees things in double...
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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2013, 02:48:12 PM »
Very nice! This is one of my favourites biplanes ever seen! :-*

Offline Brian da Basher

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2013, 11:00:07 PM »
The lozenge totally makes it all come together nicely.

Well done, arkon!

Brian da Basher

Offline Frank3k

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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2013, 11:50:00 PM »
It looks great with the lozenge decals. What scale is this? Having the radial behind the pilot means no more hot oil baths!

Offline arkon

  • Paper Building Maestro
Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2013, 06:52:33 AM »
thanks guys!! its 1/48.
the paper gods demand sacrifice

Offline father ennis

  • I got paint older than most of you guys ...
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Re: swept wing pusher bi-plane
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2013, 01:29:30 PM »
Very very nice !!!   I'm working on something along the same lines myself,but in 1/72 scale. I'll try to have some photos up soon. I must admit,I wasn't sure if I would like it or not but once I saw it painted it looks grand !!!  Good job !!!
I may be old but I'm not dead ... yet anyway ... !!!    And NO I did not know Richard III !!!!!!