Author Topic: A Civilized BV222  (Read 25896 times)

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2014, 06:03:36 PM »
Wow, this has certainly generated some interest. Thanks for all the ideas guys.
I think I'll go for the Air France scheme as shown above and by GTX. It is rather striking isn't it.
Now all I'll have to do is somehow paint the blue stripes. I would go for decals but I don't have a printer nor decal paper or even the right program to do them on. So I'll do it the hard way of course :)
I've just looked at the finished molds for the chairs and the roof and from what I can see, they look ok. The real test will be when I mix and pour the resin. I've never done this before, so I'm not take any pictures to prevent serious public shame.
I'll have some pics for you next week once I've actually done something on it
Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas guys
Keep em coming ;)
MH
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Offline Alvis 3.1

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2014, 01:39:38 AM »
I was thinking to do one up as a Flying Waterbomber, like the MArtin Mars scheme:
http://www.orpheusweb.co.uk/vicsmith/Pictures/Mars3.jpeg


I like the airliner concept more.

Alvis 3.1

Offline jcf

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2014, 03:26:11 AM »
The BV 222 was a little smaller than the SNCASE SE-200 so would fit in as an extemporized replacement
for that project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCASE_SE.200

http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/se200.pdf



http://www.airwar.ru/enc/sww2/se200.html

I have the Docavia book Les Pacqebots Volants about the French trans-atlantic flying
boats which has lots of photos, including some colour shots of the 631, if you want more
info about paint schemes etc. The blue stripes and seahorse was not the only scheme the
631 wore.
Cheers
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2014, 07:04:52 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?



(OK, they're not flying boats, but all of the TAA flying boat images I could find were on image protected sites)

Ooh! Just found these!




Or Ansett?






And as to how Australia could have acquired one (well, 3, actually);

From Wikipedia
Quote
Postwar

Three BV 222s were captured and subsequently operated by Allied forces: C-011, C-012, and C-013. C-012, captured at Sørreisa in Norway after the war along with V2, was flown by Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown from Norway to the RAF station at Calshot in 1946, with RAF serial number "VP501". After testing at Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment at Felixstowe it was assigned to No. 201 Squadron RAF, who operated it up to 1947, when it was scrapped.

C-011 and C-013 were captured by US forces at the end of World War II. On August 15 and again on August 20, 1945 LT Cmdr Richard Schreder of the US Navy performed test flights along with the German crew of one of the BV 222 aircraft that had been acquired by the US. In two flights resulting in a total flight time of 38 minutes they experienced 4 engine fires. While many spare engines were available they were of substandard quality due to the lack of quality alloys near the end of the war, and caught fire easily. Since the aircraft was unairworthy with these engines, the aircraft was supposedly taken out to open water and sunk by a Navy Destroyer.

Other reports indicate the US captured aircraft were flown or shipped to the US. Convair acquired one for evaluation at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River, the intensive studies leading to the hull design of their Model 117 which in turn led to the R3Y Tradewind. Their subsequent fate is unknown.

The V2 aircraft briefly wore US markings in 1946. Strangely the V2 aircraft had identification markings given to her from the original V5 aircraft for Operation Schatzgräber. V2 was later scuttled by the British who filled her with BV 222 spare parts from the base at Ilsvika to weigh her down. V2 was towed to a position between Fagervika and Monk's Island where it is thought she now rests perfectly preserved on the seabed, owing to low oxygen levels in the water. There are plans to raise and restore this aircraft.


What if, instead of being sunk by the USN, C-011 & C-013 were sold by the US to Australia. Australia then acquires V2 & the Ilsvika spares from the British. Then, with re-built engines (or US/British replacements), they're used for transport to PNG & the South & Central Pacific islands.

(I, personally, like the TAA "Sunbird" scheme on the Catalina.)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 07:20:40 AM by Old Wombat »
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline finsrin

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2014, 07:13:28 AM »
You guys are coming up with great bunch of flying boat pictures and livery possibilities :)

Offline kitnut617

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2014, 07:52:32 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?





As an aside, Aircraft in Miniature are about to release a Drover in both 1/72 & 1/48 scale under their Rug Rat brand

http://www.aim72.co.uk/page5.html

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2014, 08:37:05 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?



(OK, they're not flying boats, but all of the TAA flying boat images I could find were on image protected sites)

Ooh! Just found these!




Or Ansett?






And as to how Australia could have acquired one (well, 3, actually);

From Wikipedia
Quote
Postwar

Three BV 222s were captured and subsequently operated by Allied forces: C-011, C-012, and C-013. C-012, captured at Sørreisa in Norway after the war along with V2, was flown by Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown from Norway to the RAF station at Calshot in 1946, with RAF serial number "VP501". After testing at Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment at Felixstowe it was assigned to No. 201 Squadron RAF, who operated it up to 1947, when it was scrapped.

C-011 and C-013 were captured by US forces at the end of World War II. On August 15 and again on August 20, 1945 LT Cmdr Richard Schreder of the US Navy performed test flights along with the German crew of one of the BV 222 aircraft that had been acquired by the US. In two flights resulting in a total flight time of 38 minutes they experienced 4 engine fires. While many spare engines were available they were of substandard quality due to the lack of quality alloys near the end of the war, and caught fire easily. Since the aircraft was unairworthy with these engines, the aircraft was supposedly taken out to open water and sunk by a Navy Destroyer.

Other reports indicate the US captured aircraft were flown or shipped to the US. Convair acquired one for evaluation at the Naval Air Station Patuxent River, the intensive studies leading to the hull design of their Model 117 which in turn led to the R3Y Tradewind. Their subsequent fate is unknown.

The V2 aircraft briefly wore US markings in 1946. Strangely the V2 aircraft had identification markings given to her from the original V5 aircraft for Operation Schatzgräber. V2 was later scuttled by the British who filled her with BV 222 spare parts from the base at Ilsvika to weigh her down. V2 was towed to a position between Fagervika and Monk's Island where it is thought she now rests perfectly preserved on the seabed, owing to low oxygen levels in the water. There are plans to raise and restore this aircraft.


What if, instead of being sunk by the USN, C-011 & C-013 were sold by the US to Australia. Australia then acquires V2 & the Ilsvika spares from the British. Then, with re-built engines (or US/British replacements), they're used for transport to PNG & the South & Central Pacific islands.

(I, personally, like the TAA "Sunbird" scheme on the Catalina.)


Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie - hahahaha - nothing wrong with that Wombat :)

Man - your making it harder for me to choose a scheme. Just when I thought I had one in mind you come along and show me those - now I'm having a rethink for the 10th time now :)
Don't get me wrong - I am certainly not complaining at all. I'm just annoyed at my own inability to choose a design I like and stick with it
The back story for an Aussie version that you've given certainly works for me.
I was seriously thinking of doing an Air-France version - if only because in reality, that would be the closest country to Germany that would most likely to have benefitted from such an aircraft. But looking at the flying boats operated by Ansett, Qantas and TAA, it's almost too hard to resist the temptation to go for an Aussie version.
It's a shame Air New Zealand didn't operate flying boats or I would have gone with that. How cool would a BV 222 look in the modern day Air NZ Black scheme as worn by their new 787!
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2014, 09:50:44 AM »
I forgot C-12! :o

We could have bought her in 1947, instead of the RAF scrapping her! :)

So that's 4! ;D

I figure they could be used on routes operating out of Brisbane/Sydney which would incorporate the following island groups;

Island Group - Possible waypoints
New Caledonia - Noumea
Vanuatu - Port Vila
Tuvalu (fmrly Ellice Is.) - Funafuti
Kiribati (fmrly Gilbert Is.) - Tarawa
Papua/New Guinea - Bouganville (Arawa), New Ireland (Kavieng), New Britain (Rabaul), Lae, Alotau, Port Moresby

A BV.222 leased to New Zealand could operate the Kermadec Is., Tonga, Tokelau, Cook Is., Niue run.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2014, 02:48:39 AM »

It's a shame Air New Zealand didn't operate flying boats or I would have gone with that.


You were saying?

Air New Zealand originated in 1940 as Tasman Empire Airways Limited (TEAL), a flying boat company operating trans-Tasman flights between New Zealand and Australia. TEAL became wholly owned by the New Zealand government in 1965, whereupon it was renamed Air New Zealand.  The inaugural service from Auckland to Sydney on 30 April 1940 was flown by Aotearoa, one of its two Short S30 flying boats.



And BTW, whilst they don't appear to have decals for the TEAL S30 (yet), Old Model Decals do have decals for the Catalinas and other platforms that could be adapted onto a TEAL BV222…just saying. ;)

Also. as I said earlier, I still wouldn't rule out an option that doesn't involve WWII at all.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2014, 02:49:54 AM »
Here's me being a pesky parochial Aussie:

What about TAA?





As an aside, Aircraft in Miniature are about to release a Drover in both 1/72 & 1/48 scale under their Rug Rat brand

http://www.aim72.co.uk/page5.html


I can't wait!!!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2014, 07:22:10 AM »

It's a shame Air New Zealand didn't operate flying boats or I would have gone with that.


You were saying?

Air New Zealand originated in 1940 as Tasman Empire Airways Limited (TEAL), a flying boat company operating trans-Tasman flights between New Zealand and Australia. TEAL became wholly owned by the New Zealand government in 1965, whereupon it was renamed Air New Zealand.  The inaugural service from Auckland to Sydney on 30 April 1940 was flown by Aotearoa, one of its two Short S30 flying boats.



And BTW, whilst they don't appear to have decals for the TEAL S30 (yet), Old Model Decals do have decals for the Catalinas and other platforms that could be adapted onto a TEAL BV222…just saying. ;)

Also. as I said earlier, I still wouldn't rule out an option that doesn't involve WWII at all.


I forgot all about TEAL. I was of the age when Air NZ was NAC when I took my first flight in a 737-100/200.
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2014, 10:17:04 AM »
update time

Motors are in and so far so good. All 6 work perfectly so that's a good start!





and my very first ever attempt at casting my own pieces:



I need to talk to a mate of mine who is a brilliant caster to find out what I am doing wrong and how to get better copies.

Sorry for the minimal update - I did have more pics but the camera had died while uploading some images. Will post them later

Thanks for looking
MH
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2014, 10:51:49 AM »
MH, I'm not a resin casting expert by any means (I mean seriously not!) but it looks to me that it may be because you're trying to cast them like injection moulded plastic.

I think that if you cut off the sprue & clean up the fronts of the chairs, then glue the sprue to the bottom of the chairs (with the narrow "neck" removed). Then, when you have poured the (latex?) mould & it has set, cut an "X" out from each sprue attchment to remove the chairs, or preform it by using styrene sheet glued to the sprues & the bases of the chairs.

This way, I believe, any bubbles will rise to the surface when you pour the resin & will be at the bottom of the chair, where they can be more easily fixed or ignored.

Alternately, you could glue them to a piece of large-ish rectangular section styrene rod, via styrene blocks slightly smaller than the base of the chairs, which should allow any bubbles to rise completely out of the part.

But that's just me, who has never done any resin casting in his life. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2014, 02:13:18 PM »
All of the research and videos I've watched tell me to do it the way I've done it, but I seem to be having hits or misses. Mostly misses. I'm not too bothered by it because once it's sealed up, you won't see much anyway. I won't show you my first attempt (or second or third) of casting the roof section. That's just plain embarrassing.
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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2014, 08:22:46 PM »
<...> I won't show you my first attempt (or second or third) of casting the roof section. That's just plain embarrassing.


Nothing to be embarrassed about.

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Show the piece and the mould(s). Maybe we can help a bit.

I'd echo Wombat's advice regarding the seat.  Mount the pouring stub on the seat's bottom. Instead of using just a thin sprue, use plastic rod, a LEGO brick, modelling clay or whathaveyou to make a pouring stub almost as big as the seat's bottom. That should make it easier for any trapped air to get out. Maybe google "resin ejection seat" to see how others have done it.
Cheers,
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Offline LemonJello

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2014, 08:56:30 PM »
I too, am a novice resin caster, see my VV-22 thread for proof.

I've found that if I flex/squeeze the two-part mold, it helps eliminate some of the larger bubbles, but at the cost of some added flash around the edges.  The flash is easily cleaned off, so I think it's an acceptable trade-off to get better results.

I am interested in the motors you're using, what kind are they and where did you get them?  I'd like to have a go at motorizing one of my future projects, if for no other reason that to see if I can do it.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2014, 01:55:06 AM »
One trick is to pour talcum powder into the mold, then knock most of it out. The remaining talcum powder will suck the resin into most areas and will reduce voids and bubbles. For a first attempt, those seats aren't too bad. Since they are (or can be) flat bottomed, you can just attach them to a flat surface, build up a Lego dam around them and make a 1 piece mold. Then just pour the resin into the bottom.

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2014, 06:21:47 AM »
Thanks for the tips guys. Funnily enough, I am using a one piece mold. It was originally a 2 piece mold but I realised that it only needed to be one, and the main shape of the chairs was already incorporated in the lower half.
I'm yielding better results now that I use one. I also place the mold on top of the air compressor and turn it on as a way to bring the air bubbles up to the top. That works well, especially when making the mold. I've run out of silicone rubber so will have to buy some more when I return from holidays early next year.
The talc trick does work OK, but I often wonder whether if it somehow intrudes on the chemical reaction of the resin or if it leaves a grainy finish. I haven't seen any evidence mind you to say it does.

This will build will be on hold for 4 weeks while I go back home to NZ for Xmas.
I made a start on the interior last night and fixed up the nose, so I'll post some pics a bit later today

Forgot to add the info about the motors. They are from those little RC helicopters. I got a whole heap of them from my mate who works in a hobby shop. He gets a lot of broken helps and seeing as most of them are irreparable he just throws them away. However, the motors work just fine, so he gave me about  a dozen or so carcasses where by I removed the motors. Some are as small as 1cm. These ones are just over 2cm long.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:19:20 PM by Madhatter »
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Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2014, 01:27:28 PM »
OK, back yet again but this time with pictures :)

I have done the nose and now you can't see where there was a gun placement - which is what I was aiming for :)
I've also made a start on detailing the interior. It's a small start but a start none the less. I made a curtain out of tissue paper and cut some sheet styrene out in the shape of the bulk heads. From all the pictures I have of flying boat interiors, I would be wrong to leave them as they were. It just wouldn't look right. They look a bit messy now, but after a coat of paint, it should look better. I'm also going to print some scaled pictures to hang on the walls to give it a more classy look. I'm having doubts about the chairs now - they don't look luxuriousness enough. I may just have to scratch build my own seat and then cast off a number of them. This won't be done until I get back from holidays though.











Primed:



well, that's it for now. Thanks again for stopping by
MH
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:30:51 PM by Madhatter »
2 Reasons why a model is better than a wife:
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Offline fightingirish

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2014, 08:43:54 PM »
A fictional, privately owned and civilised version of the Blohm & Voss BV 222 is shown in the the comic book "Blake and Mortimer 18 - The Gondwana Shrine".
It is called "(The) Flying Yacht".  ;)  8)


Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2014, 12:29:27 PM »
Well - that's certainly different alright! Thanks for posting that :)
No update sorry - I have been fighting the motors - more over - just one - which has decided not to work - AFTER I had installed it and glued and let dry. It has not been a fun project so far
So, it's off the table now until I get back from holidays in NZ
Plenty of time to think how I'll paint this plane

Have a great Christmas and a safe New Year's fellas and I'll see you all next year
till then
Si
2 Reasons why a model is better than a wife:
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2014, 01:11:36 PM »
Same to you, mate!

Have a good one! :)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2015, 08:35:16 PM »
Greetings all

Well, after finishing off the 787 and the Core ship, I am back again with the mighty BV-222

I have made some head way and soon things will start to fall into place more. At the moment, I'm just trying to concentrate on internal details.

I have painted and lit the top floor and all the individual tables and chairs etc and also the cockpit seats

And, I have built my own passenger seat that looks more like a passenger plane seat than a cafe chair. I made the basic frame and then made Milliputt cushions. I am beginning to really like this stuff. I've used it to fill in the holes on the top panel where the gun turrets were and it looks good

Speaking of filling in holes, I am having a few issues trying to fill in the sides of the fuselage where the guns used to stick out. I think I've filled, it in, sanded it back, primered and then refilled again and so on about 3 times. I'm at the point where I may just cut out the shape from ultra-thin styrene and sand it back more.

And the nose is finished too :) I've also re-scribed it - something which I am not entirely comfortable with just yet - but I am getting the hang of it

Enough words, time to see where I am at:







Top floor:















Here you can just one side if the fight I am having trying to get those depressions filled and level with the rest of the surface. The Putty keeps shrinking after a day and I find myself doing it all over again. This is where I'm thinking of using shaped ultra thin styrene to fill in the hole a bit and sanding it back.





And lastly, the nose and top floor cover.Scribed and filled and shaped. They've come out well I think. I'm happy with them anyway







Well, that's all for now, but thanks for stopping in

Till then

MH
2 Reasons why a model is better than a wife:
1) A model doesn't get jealous when you look at another model
2) A model doesn't yell at you for spending money on another model

Offline Old Wombat

  • "We'll see when I've finished whether I'm showing off or simply embarrassing myself."
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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2015, 09:18:52 AM »
That's the problem with Milliput, it shrinks.

I stopped using it some time ago & converted to Aves Apoxy Sculpt. Awesome stuff; cleans up & can be smoothed with water, doesn't shrink, sticks to most plastics, has very similar sanding properties to styrene.

Like most things Apoxy Sculpt has its issues - it doesn't stick in shallow depressions very well (I tend to stipple on tube putty to rough up the surface & it sticks quite well to that, after it has thoroughly dried/cured) &, if not mixed correctly, it can be brittle & flaky or take aeons to cure.
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline Madhatter

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Re: A Civilized BV222
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2015, 02:41:07 PM »
I used Tamiya Grey putty on the panels and that's what keep shrinking. I haven
t had any issues with milliputt shrinking - but that's not to say I won't. So far, it's been great and it's what I used on the nose and on the roof section with success. .
I have just finished fixing those areas with a panel of really thin styrene cut to size. If it wasn't for the grey against the white, you wouldn't know they were there. I will sand the edges down more once it's all dried etc and it'll be even better.
I finished installing the lights into their sockets last night and tonight, I will do the final wiring up.
If anyone knows where to get 1/72 civilian passengers and pilot figures please let me know. Thanks :)
MH
2 Reasons why a model is better than a wife:
1) A model doesn't get jealous when you look at another model
2) A model doesn't yell at you for spending money on another model