Author Topic: WWIII in 1946-1948?  (Read 18556 times)

Offline Cliffy B

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WWIII in 1946-1948?
« on: August 22, 2013, 12:51:03 AM »
Some food for thought on how WWIII would have unfolded had it started in 1946-48; the US battle plans.

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2012/December%202012/1212war.aspx

Should help anyone looking to write a like scenario.
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Offline Geoff

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2013, 05:47:30 AM »
I did wonder if Patton did his offered 10 day trick of having a war with the Russians and make it look like their fault, if the US would have used German forces?
In an idea I had, I thought it might have happened if Hitler had been removed from office, and the Reich sued for peace in about'44? Ok I have a King Tiger that is destined for iron crosses like the Bundesheer.  ;D

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2013, 06:44:21 AM »
There ya go.. Author Colin Gee has already done this scenario.  Quite a good read as an E-book
http://www.redgambitseries.com/


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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2013, 02:45:33 PM »
There ya go.. Author Colin Gee has already done this scenario.  Quite a good read as an E-book
http://www.redgambitseries.com/


Are they available in ePub format yet?
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Offline Geoff

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 07:37:55 AM »
Thanks

Geoff

Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 08:10:49 AM »
There ya go.. Author Colin Gee has already done this scenario.  Quite a good read as an E-book
http://www.redgambitseries.com/


Are they available in ePub format yet?


Not sure about that, but a quick scan of his website seems to indicate.. no
I purchased from the insidious Amazon Empire, I have a Kindle.
Quite cheap, less than $5 each

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 04:17:00 AM »
Not sure about that, but a quick scan of his website seems to indicate.. no
I purchased from the insidious Amazon Empire, I have a Kindle.
Quite cheap, less than $5 each

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 04:23:07 AM »
I wonder what sort of counter the USSR would have for the US Nuclear Weapons in such a scenario?
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2013, 04:47:16 AM »
I wonder what sort of counter the USSR would have for the US Nuclear Weapons in such a scenario?

A rather effective spy network.
Sabotage would be their most effective method I would think, whilst using gathered information to ramp up their own programme.

Rerouting some B-29's to Europe would seem to be no real problem or even going the backup path of using Lanc's.
The real problem I would see would be getting the weapon/s over Europe and the actual will to use it in Europe.
Lets assume that a Soviet Attack would gobble up large swathes of Germany, very quickly. That would mean a lot of hostile airspace between UK Airfields and any Soviet Rodina territory.
You cannot assume total air superiority in this sort of Scenario.

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2013, 04:51:06 AM »
What I am saying/asking though is what would the Soviets be able to do if the USA decided to go all out with the nuclear option during any war in '46 - 48.  Although the USSR ground forces and tactical airforces might be quite impressive in the aftermath of WWII, they did not really have any counter if the USA decided to fully exercise its nuclear "ace card".
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Offline Litvyak

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2013, 05:34:45 AM »
One each on Moscow, Leningrad and - probably very first - Stalingrad (flying from, say, Persia or Iraq), and I don't think the Russian will to fight would've lasted much longer than the Japanese. Make sure not to hit anything in the Ukraine or the Baltics, you've got some instant new allies right there...
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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2013, 05:48:11 AM »
Or alternatively, use them in a battlefield role.  Drop one or two on Soviet Front lines or just behind as they are concentrating forces.

It would also have been interesting to see how quickly the German Military was 'rehabilitated' in such a scenario…lots of recent experience fighting Soviet forces there.

Also, if you were to see a major fight between the USA et al and the USSR, you might see many countries such as those in Scandinavia (esp with the Finland Factor) joining the fight once again.  Also, a lot of the 'newly liberated' countries on the USSR side (e.g. Poland, Romania, the Baltic states…) might decide they don't like the form of 'liberation' they have and thus decide to rise up...
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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2013, 06:28:04 AM »
Of course the flip side of this might be that the USA finds its European allies are just too tired for another war.  For instance, the UK had been fighting since '39, was bankrupt, had a empire in tatters etc.  Mainland Europe, especially Germany was wrecked after 6yrs of war...etc.

If the West had wanted/was forced to fight another European war in the '46 - '48 timeframe they would have required massive US support/leadership IMHO, not only in terms of military hardware but probably also in terms of logistics/food support.

Would the USSR have bnecessarily suffered the same restrictions as much?
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Offline Buzzbomb

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2013, 02:38:42 PM »
Having a little chuckle here.. That Red Gambit series has a take on every question you asked.

I suppose my point was.. getting to Russia to drop the nukes would not be the task it was against Japan with a more hostile airspace. Plus there is the range factor. Pretty sure a German Ally would not take too kindly to having their country irradiated.. Germany would be the front line within hours of hostilities, so assuming the nukes were still in the USA.. getting to the theater would take some amount of time. Assuming that Persia or any Balkan country is "friendly" would also be a big gamble. You could be assured that the NKVD/GBH would have agents actively being subversive in most border country governments

War weariness would also be issue, as would re-mobilising demobbed forces and gear


OK Red Gambit Spoilers.



In the books hints and intelligence grabs of a build up lead to the Allies arranging and attending German led symposiums by proven German battle commanders to pass on their experience, tactics and give appraisals to the allied commanders about fighting Soviets.

As far as German forces, there are political forces in play. Ex Wehrmacht were  quickly approved to be used as troops, as they are fighting on their home turf, so would resist anyway. But not the SS. Funnily enoug, when it got bad enough after Soviet breakthroughs,  the SS forces became members of the French Foreign Legion which were seen to be conveniently "outside" of the Allied Political structure

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2013, 03:24:08 AM »
Having a little chuckle here.. That Red Gambit series has a take on every question you asked.




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Offline mrvr6

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2013, 05:03:01 AM »
how about russia being a 3rd party in the war instead of aledged allies with us?

ie its a 3 way scrap i dont suppose germanies situation alters a great deal (apart from russia using our supplies)

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2013, 05:08:38 AM »
how about russia being a 3rd party in the war instead of aledged allies with us?

Not sure I understand?
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Offline Silver Fox

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2013, 05:24:20 AM »
A 3-corner war, not totally unlike what really occurred.

Russia is at war with Germany, and shares certain strategic or even tactical goals with the Western allies... but little else. Cooperation between Eastern and Western Fronts is virtually nil. The Murmansk convoys never take place as the RN has been too beaten up in the Atlantic and the RAF has been weakened by continued Battle of Britain style attacks.

Russia is neutral vs Japan.

The Fall of Germany actually ends with meeting engagements between Soviet Forces and Allied Forces. The two sides withdraw, but only to enter an uneasy peace. The Allies blame the Soviets for losses on the Atlantic Wall, the Soviets blame the Allies for delaying the second front.

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2013, 05:27:12 AM »
I think we might be talking different scenarios here.  One involves WW3 in the '46 - '48 timeframe, whereas the other is an alternate WW2.
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Offline Silver Fox

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2013, 10:21:14 AM »
The alternate WWII is a precursor to a 1946-48 WWIII.

Setting the stage as it were. :)

Offline Volkodav

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2013, 06:21:40 PM »
Something that comes to mind is that if any of this occurred then the Attlee government would never have exported the Nene to the USSR and provided technical data and a licence to manufacture.  That means no RD-45, no VK-1 and no Mig 15 ???

Offline perttime

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2013, 06:25:55 PM »
never have exported the Nene to the USSR and provided technical data and a licence to manufacture.  That means no RD-45, no VK-1 and no Mig 15 ???
So, Russians kept at the Motorjet concept for longer, and maybe rocket boosters...

Offline Geoff

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2013, 01:44:34 AM »
Or used a less powerful development of a German jet engine. You still get the Mig-9 and the Yak -15. The Mig-15 comes in a little later.

 ;)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 01:57:39 AM by Geoff »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2013, 02:35:46 AM »
Or used a less powerful development of a German jet engine. You still get the Mig-9 and the Yak -15. The Mig-15 comes in a little later.
You might also get more development of the basic German engines using better metalurgy since they wouldn't necessarily be under the same resource restrictions the Germans were.

Offline Geoff

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Re: WWIII in 1946-1948?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2013, 06:59:04 AM »
Yes more than likley