Author Topic: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration (Read 187173 times)

elmayerle · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2012, 07:09:23 AM »

After Googling Menasco, it seems that their main production was I-4 (Pirate) and I-6 (Buccaneer) engines with some experimental air-cooled IV's that never went too far. The Ranger engine seems the best choice for now. Wasn't there an experimental T-6 variant with a Ranger or Menasco engine?

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2012, 07:27:24 AM »

Quote from: elmayerle on March 26, 2012, 07:09:23 AM

After Googling Menasco, it seems that their main production was I-4 (Pirate) and I-6 (Buccaneer) engines with some experimental air-cooled IV's that never went too far. The Ranger engine seems the best choice for now. Wasn't there an experimental T-6 variant with a Ranger or Menasco engine?

That would have been the XAT-6E (derived from an AT-6D) powered by a Ranger V-770-9 (575hp) engine for trials. (Wikipedia - North American T-6 Texan).

The Curtiss SO3C Seamew was also powered by the Ranger V-770

apophenia · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2012, 09:59:47 AM »

Quote from: elmayerle on March 26, 2012, 07:09:23 AM

After Googling Menasco, it seems that their main production was I-4 (Pirate) and I-6 (Buccaneer) engines with some experimental air-cooled IV's that never went too far...

That'd be the 2,000 hp XIV-2020-1 (aka MX-46). AFAIK, none were ever built but it was supposed to be a 2035 cid (6" bore x 6" stroke) V-12.

Related was the 3,400 hp Menasco XH-4070-1 (MX-110) H-24 of 4,071 cid (same bore and stroke as the XIV-2020). It wasn't built either. Still, these designs can't have been complete dogs since Wright planned to use Menasco IV-2020 cylinder banks (albeit bored out to 6.125") for their XH-4240 'hyper' engine.

Litvyak · « **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2012, 11:17:32 AM »

So I added several kits to my stash the other day, some helos and one that - as soon as I opened the package - regretted buying - the RoG 1/72 P-51D Mustang.

I was planning to use it to do a RCAF 442 Sqn bird, but the kit just looks too simple/awful to bother with for one of my RW builds.

So, I decided it's a perfect candidate for some whiffery, and I've got a pile of oldish decals of unusual roundels - Algeria, Kyrgyzstan, Jordan, Cambodia, Mexico, Congo/Brazzaville, Burma, Rhodesia, Lebanon, Venezuela, Thailand, etc etc... I've also got a Starfix T-38 kit I have no idea what I'll do with...

...anybody got any ideas they're willing to throw at me for these?

elmayerle · « **Reply #29 on:** April 25, 2012, 12:14:37 PM »

That bad? Well, then I'd say that something suitable from that stack of unusual decals sounds about right, Kyrgystan and Cambodia would take the most creative backstory while most of the others could fit rather more easily. The Starfix T-38 kit probably should go to somewhere like Venezuela or Thailand would could use a good lead-in high performance trainer.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #30 on:** April 25, 2012, 12:18:36 PM »

Congo

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #31 on:** May 04, 2012, 03:45:55 AM »

One I did a while ago:

Would require some sort of device to prevent too much water ingestion be the radiator intake on takeoff/landing.

Regards,

Greg

Tophe · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2012, 12:26:09 PM »

Dear GTX,
forgetting panel lines and rivets, it is easy to find a solution for the radiator:

Thanks for the inspiration :)

elmayerle · « **Reply #33 on:** May 04, 2012, 01:03:52 PM »

had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.

Daryl J. · « **Reply #34 on:** May 04, 2012, 01:07:11 PM »

Quote

had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.

:)

Do it!

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #35 on:** May 04, 2012, 11:19:23 PM »

Quote from: elmayerle on May 04, 2012, 01:03:52 PM

had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.

I acquired an Accurate Miniatures kit to do something like that with a P-51D.

Rafael · « **Reply #36 on:** May 05, 2012, 08:45:38 AM »

Hastily made with a FTB profile and part of one of GTX's DO-335s. Don't know what it is but I like it. What's the engine in this bird?

elmayerle · « **Reply #37 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:31:45 AM »

Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on May 04, 2012, 11:19:23 PM

Quote from: elmayerle on May 04, 2012, 01:03:52 PM
had an idea for a hybrid Mustang with the nose art of "Junkyard Dawg". The idea is that an aircraft salvage facility gets a P-51 (original four-cannon wing) with a trashed fuselage at the same time as they get a P-51B/C with a trashed wing. Since the wing mounting points are essential identical and the wing is attached to the fuselage by four large bolts, they splice together the good fuselage with the good wing and get a Merlin-powered P-51 with four 20mm cannon in the wing. Methinks it would make for an interesting defense aircraft for that facility, among other things.
I acquired an Accurate Miniatures kit to do something like that with a P-51D.

The P-51D gets a bit more problematical in that the D wing has a different Main landing gear mounting (it sits at a different angle from the P-51B/C) which also results in a larger swept-forward leading edge at the wing root to accomodate the altered gear geometry. This is where a lot of P-15B kits have an error, this inboard portion of the wing is not the same as that of the P-51D. I suspect the change was to lower the nose and improve the view after the changes from P-51A to P-51B raised the sit angle on the ground (P-51B wing is some three inches farther from the main fuselage datum on the P-51B/C as compared to the P-51/A-36/P-51A).

Tophe · « **Reply #38 on:** May 05, 2012, 09:00:42 PM »

Quote from: Rafael on May 05, 2012, 08:45:38 AM

Hastily made with a FTB profile and part of one of GTX's DO-335s. Don't know what it is but I like it. What's the engine in this bird?

Thanks Rafael for the inspiration. My versions are twin-engined: the rear engine is cooled by the ventral radiator, and the front engine is cooled by the nose annular radiator:

kitnut617 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:31:56 PM »

Quote from: Rafael on May 05, 2012, 08:45:38 AM

Hastily made with a FTB profile and part of one of GTX's DO-335s. Don't know what it is but I like it. What's the engine in this bird?

The RR FTB was to be able to take any engine no matter what it's size or weight was (within reason), it was thought that a mid-engined arrangement would make it easier to do this than to try and convert an aircraft with the engine in the nose. This design came about because RR tried to fit the RR Griffon onto a Mustang just as they had converted a Mustang Mk.I to take a Merlin, but they came across some really big cg issues, like having to place nearly 300 lbs of ballast as far back in the tail as it would go. What with the heavier engine and all the ballast weight, it nullified any performance gained by the more powerful engine plus the structrual problems created by placing nearlyy 300 lbs in the tail.

So the original idea for the FTB (actually called the 'Private Venture Fighter') was be powered by a RR Griffon engine. Have a look at reply #4 in this thread and you'll see my two models I've made of the FTB/PVF, the camo'ed one is the Private Venture Fighter powered by a Griffon, the silver one is how the FTB would have looked like had it flown, with a Hawker Tempest tail. This model I've done being powered by the RR Crecy engine, a V-12 two-stroke sleeve valve arrangement.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #40 on:** May 06, 2012, 03:14:01 AM »

If you remove the ventral radiator etc, you could say it was an annular radiator cooled option.

Another option for the nose might be to borrow the spinner from this modified Spiteful that I did:

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #41 on:** May 06, 2012, 07:44:53 AM »

A couple of Nighfighter variations on the P-51:

Backseater in both cases operates radar.

sequoiaranger · « **Reply #42 on:** May 06, 2012, 07:55:41 AM »

That two-seater:

Good Idea!

I made one in 1/48 almost identical to the drawing on the bottom (a RW aircraft, actually)---there was a war-weary "hack" two-seater P-51 that General Eisenhower flew in (as a passenger, with no parachute!) over Normandy to assess battlefield progress. My version was built in the 1980's to go with a Club project, so I have neither the original nor pictures.

raafif · « **Reply #43 on:** May 06, 2012, 08:41:12 AM »

a hack used by the 435th Fighter Squadron, 479th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force.

elmayerle · « **Reply #44 on:** May 06, 2012, 10:31:42 AM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on May 06, 2012, 07:44:53 AM

A couple of Nighfighter variations on the P-51:

Backseater in both cases operates radar.

That's the approach I'm taking to a P-51B nightfighter with the radar pod from a F4U-5N on the starboard wing. Also considering an alternate approach with an additional underwing hard point on each side with the radar pod, podded similar to the P-38M radar, on one outboard hardpoint and either a third droptank or, say, a searchlight pod, on the other outboard hardpoint. I'm thinking a gloss black paint job with dark red letters and a dark red version of the 4th fighter group's paint scheme; definitely with appropriate "nose art" applied.

AXOR · « **Reply #45 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:07:11 PM »

V-tail version

Alex

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #46 on:** May 13, 2012, 06:24:27 PM »

Now that is different!

Tophe · « **Reply #47 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:31:45 AM »

Thanks AXU, this is enriching the collection of V-tail Mustangs (page 89 of my free book "Virtual Mustangs"):

Tophe · « **Reply #48 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:17:41 PM »

And here is a comparison between new-style and old-style for the V-tail mustang:

abtex · « **Reply #49 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:28:56 AM »

Vietnam mobilized, and designed. Mustang with a gas turbine engine.
Takes a little about the Cavalier turbo mustang III, with several pictures.


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Author Topic: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration (Read 187173 times)