Author Topic: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 61078 times)

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2014, 09:15:37 AM »
Maybe we need a thread dedicated to "engines that never made it into series production"?
Or a GB. :) 8)

Offline perttime

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2014, 04:09:43 PM »
A racer version?
The P-47 looks pretty blunt - but a blunt looking nose hasn't stopped Bearcats and Sea Furies from going fast.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2014, 10:26:13 PM »
A racer version?
The P-47 looks pretty blunt - but a blunt looking nose hasn't stopped Bearcats and Sea Furies from going fast.

The Sea Fury doesn't have a blunt nose, it's got one of the biggest spinners used on a prop plane to streamline the airflow over the cowling.  And the really fast Bearcats use a Sea Fury spinner --- look at any photo of 'Rare Bear'  ---

Offline perttime

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 11:54:13 PM »
Sa a P-47 would need a big spinner and some other rearrangement in the front end...

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2014, 12:00:04 AM »
Have a look at reply #4 in this thread, what you see is a Shackleton spinner (which was the same size and shape as the spinner that came in the kit).  The Sea Fury spinner is about 1.5 times bigger so would be more than adequate for a P-47.  A few of the Bearcats use B-26 Intruder spinners too.

EDIT:  I think you'll find that the XP-72 was the end result of all the XP-47 experiments into making it more streamlined ---
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 12:22:44 AM by kitnut617 »

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2014, 02:16:24 AM »
 A little late, but there's also auxiliary propulsion to consider - I had some fun building the P-47R 'Rambolt' awhile back.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 02:18:08 AM by Dr. YoKai »

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2014, 02:50:19 AM »
A little late, but there's also auxiliary propulsion to consider - I had some fun building the P-47R 'Rambolt' awhile back.




Very Nice. What did you build the ramjets out of?
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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2014, 03:07:56 AM »
Some P-47 (and related) inspiration here
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Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2014, 05:16:45 AM »
@ the Gimper : I'm not positive ( I didn't take a whole lot of in-progress shots ) but I think the ramjets are modified fishing bobbers.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2014, 08:10:58 AM »
@ the Gimper : I'm not positive ( I didn't take a whole lot of in-progress shots ) but I think the ramjets are modified fishing bobbers.


I find your answer very fishy.  :o

The images I have seen of ramjets is that they are not a constant diameter. Smaller in front, getting larger with max diameter 9/10ths back and then narrow up at the rear.

Hasegawa did a 1/48 P-51 with ramjets.

I can also use pulse jets.

Picture here.
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Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2014, 08:24:55 AM »
I picked up some resin and metal 20mm barrels a while back with the intention of replacing the eight .50 Browning machine guns with four 20mm weapons. 

The dilemma I face at the moment is whether to have each barrel side-by-side in close proximity to suggest the ammunition supply is off to one side or to place the gun barrels further apart to suggest that the ammunition supply is situated immediately next to each gun.  Greater dispersion of rounds with the barrels further apart or tighter groupings with the barrels closer together. 

I suppose it also depends on the mission performed.  In this case a P-47 Thunderbolt armed with four 20mm cannons would be as a ground attack aircraft in the USAAF '46 theme and not a dedicated fighter for air to air combat. 
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2014, 08:34:44 AM »
Mustangs, Corsairs and Hellcats all got the 20mm treatment, I wonder why they never did a P-47, certainly an interesting idea Jeff. I could see some RAF versions like that too, seeing as the Brits prefered cannon over machine guns.  How about a Far East P-47 with a quartet of Hispano 30mm's ----

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2014, 09:53:33 AM »
Was the P-47 wing chord large enough to accommodate 20mm cannons and associated feeds?

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2014, 01:31:08 PM »
Apparently the 78th FG tried a field mod where the added a pair of 20mm cannons to a P-47.  The Thunderbolt flown by Colonel Fred Gray of the 78th Fighter Group had two20 mm cannon manufactured by Oldsmobile mounted under the wings of this aircraft. It was thought that the added punch of the two cannon would be a real plus in strafing missions but the installation did not prove to be successful. The cannon added considerable drag and knocked top speed down by 50 mph. Streamlined fairings had been designed but were not installed when this photograph was taken on 24 October 1944. It was hard to beat the destructive power of the standard eight .50 caliber guns and the aircraft was converted back to standard configuration. The aircraft was at Duxford, England when the photograph was taken.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 01:33:40 PM by GTX_Admin »
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2014, 10:31:47 PM »
Was the P-47 wing chord large enough to accommodate 20mm cannons and associated feeds?

The wing is as big as a Tempest wing Brian, so I would think so ---

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2014, 03:00:13 AM »
Was the P-47 wing chord large enough to accommodate 20mm cannons and associated feeds?


The ammunition feed on the P-47 Thunderbolt was arranged so that each of the feed chutes carrying the linked belts ran over the top of each machine gun to feed the gun next to it.  All of that still fit under a smooth wing panel. 

Similar feed systems for the 20mm cannon were available and the F4U Corsair was set up in a similar arrangement so applying that technology to a P-47 Thunderbolt would make perfect sense if the USAAF had not been so stubborn in sticking with the simplicity of the .50 Browning machine guns they appeared to favour for fighter and ground attack aircraft. 

I recall reading about this machine gun vs cannon issue during the Korean War where the USAF and USN each flew an aircraft in a comparison test against truck targets.  I believe it was a USAF Mustang (.50 machine guns) and a Navy Corsair (20mm cannons) that flew the test.  The target was a truck and each weapon type did what it was supposed to do and shredded the target.  The 20mm cannon did so with fewer rounds expended and obviously proved the point that a 20mm or 30mm cannon armed attack aircraft were obviously much better at destroying ground targets than an aircraft armed with machine guns that had at best only API/API-T as the damage mechanism to destroy the target.  The USAF did not change their mind even in the face of such obvious and overwhelming results, they stuck with their decision to continue to use the .50 machine gun. 
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Offline jcf

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2014, 04:49:33 AM »
Probably the best discussion of the subject of HMG vs. cannon, from Tony Williams website:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/CannonMGs.htm

As to a P-47 based racer? why not? Its ancestors did well in the Bendix races.
For a pylon racer, use a Razorback fuselage (less drag than the bubble-top),
clipped N model wings and get rid of the turbo and related exhaust/induction
systems as it wouldn't be needed at low altitude and losing the weight would
be to the team's advantage.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2014, 04:57:52 AM »
and get rid of the turbo and related exhaust/induction
systems as it wouldn't be needed at low altitude and losing the weight would
be to the team's advantage.


Hmmm…losing those elements might also allow one to slim down the fuselage a little too


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Offline jcf

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2014, 07:11:03 AM »
Yep, especially as the belly fairing got deeper on the later C and D-5 on models to accommodate
the plumbing for the belly tank. Of course, you'd want to add a J style cowling and grouped exhausts
ala FW 190, Sea Fury, Bearcat etc.
 ;D

Perhaps, a good use for the undernourished fuselage of the 1/48th Hasegawa Jugs.  :)
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2014, 08:35:17 AM »
Those exhaust ducts running under the cockpit must have kept the pilots cosy and warm in European skies but in the Pacific?

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2014, 02:45:14 AM »
Those exhaust ducts running under the cockpit must have kept the pilots cosy and warm in European skies but in the Pacific?

Well I would say, at 10-15,000 ft (and above) anywhere in the world, it's cold up there ----  it's why there's snow on the 14,000 ft mountain (volcano) in Hawaii

Offline tahsin

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2014, 05:06:48 PM »
Wasn't the large fuselage volume underneath a prime reason why the P-47 was so much loved by pilots in ground attack? Whenever one belly landed there was this huge gap between him and a somewhat unwellcoming ground.

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2014, 08:51:14 AM »
While poking around on Evilbay I found these two items on auction:

Koster 1/48 XP-47J conversion



Koster 1/48 XP-72 conversion

« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 08:59:36 AM by The Big Gimper »
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2014, 09:46:25 AM »
I keep thinking that both would look interesting crossed with P-47N kits.

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Re: Republic P-47 (and derivatives) Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2015, 04:34:01 AM »
Does anyone know if you can get a kit or conversion of the twin seat P-47...preferably in 1/48:

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