Author Topic: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks  (Read 4889 times)

Offline dy031101

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Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« on: June 20, 2017, 02:43:38 AM »
I have a question about the forerunner of the Caernarvon & Conqueror tanks, the FV201.

From what I can find online, the Caernarvon evolved from the FV201 and started out as an effort to develop an "universal tank" armed with a 20-pounder.

What I would like to know is if the "'universal tank' armed with a 20-pounder" description also extends to the FV201- I know that the FV201 was tested with a 17-pounder; but is that the intended specification of the FV201 programme, or is it merely a result of testing the hull when there was no 20-pounder turret that could be spared?

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 02:54:03 AM by dy031101 »
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 11:46:17 AM »
I think it is all explained in the Wikipedia entry on the Conqueror:

Quote
Design and development

The chassis was from the A 45 Infantry Support Tank, which project was started in 1944 shortly after that of the A 41 Centurion. After the war, the project was relocated to that of the "Universal Tank" design of the FV 200 series. The 200 series was to have used a common hull for all uses (self-propelled artillery, armoured personnel carrier, three varieties of tank, etc.). One tank type was to be the heavy FV 201 of 55 tonnes, armed with an 83.4 mm gun.

In 1949, it was decided to bring the armament up to 120 mm. As this delayed the project, in 1952 the FV 201 hull was combined with a 17 pounder-armed Centurion Mk 2 turret to give the FV 221 Caernarvon Mark I.
[Source]

Offline dy031101

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Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 10:41:39 AM »
Someone did the FV201 kitbash that I would like to try for myself one day.

(Although...... I want to do it with an American 90mm M36 or M41 gun...... yes, historically it makes no sense, but the American 90mm gun seems to have remained useful for longer than the British 20-pounder did......)

« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 11:07:36 AM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 02:31:16 PM »
The 20 Pdr lives on today in the breech and recoil mechanism of the 105mm L7 Vickers gun which armed most NATO and other Western forces tanks from the early 1960s through to today.   All they did was swap out the barrel for a 105mm calibre one after the arrival of a T-54 MBT by mistake in the front courtyard of the British Embassy in Budapest during the 1956 invasion by the Soviets.   It revealed how strong the armour was and how big the gun was, which the British immediately set out to better...

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Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 01:46:12 AM »
All they did was swap out the barrel for a 105mm calibre one after the arrival of a T-54 MBT by mistake in the front courtyard of the British Embassy in Budapest during the 1956 invasion by the Soviets.


Hmmm...whilst this event may have played a part in the urgency to bring the gun into service, the L7 was actually developed prior and indeed was test fired a couple of months before the Hungarian Uprising.  See here for some info:  http://www.cmchant.com/british-l7-tank-gun.  What is also interesting is that there is apparently a 'family history' back to the German KwK 43.
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Offline dy031101

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Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 07:38:48 AM »
Okay allow me to rephrase the question- does anyone know if the hull internal layout of the Caernarvon, beyond not having a hull machinegunner's position, has any other difference(s) from that of the FV201?
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 08:09:24 AM »
Okay allow me to rephrase the question- does anyone know if the hull internal layout of the Caernarvon, beyond not having a hull machinegunner's position, has any other difference(s) from that of the FV201?


FV201:




Caernarvon:





As you mention, no hull MG.  Different drivers hatch and vision port.  Turret is standard Centurion Mk.3 as far as I can tell.

Offline dy031101

  • Yuri Fanboy and making cute stuff practical- at least that's the plan anyway
  • Prefers Guns And Tanks Over Swords And Magic
Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 02:06:00 PM »
Well, my question is made with their ammo stowage locations in mind (I know that videogame illustrations aren't necessarily accurate but posted them here for examples)......



« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 02:22:14 PM by dy031101 »
Forget about his bow and arrows- why wait until that sparrow has done his deed when I can just bury him right now 'cause I'm sick and tired of hearing why he wants to have his way with the cock robin!?

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: Caernarvon & Conqueror Heavy Tanks
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 04:00:07 PM »
Remember, this is Whiff-world, you can make the ammunition stowage whatever you want it to be...