Author Topic: P-38 killers  (Read 20392 times)

Offline Tophe

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P-38 killers
« on: March 31, 2016, 12:25:58 PM »
Just one day remaining and I will post (the result of my painful thoughts).

Offline Kerick

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 01:33:42 AM »
This I can't wait to see!

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 11:40:42 AM »
Now is April 1st, Paris Time (and Greenwich?) even if Seattle and Honolulu may still be in March, let's go...

Gunship-Lightning murderers
   Being myself a naïve (stupid?) pacifist, I have considered (as dear Weaver suggested) to draw Non-Lethal-GunShips, firing tennis balls on the shoulders of angry protesters/rioters. But at last I prefer facing my own contradiction: as I love aircraft (and more Spitfire than Dakota, more YF-16 than B.747) I tend to love killing gun-platforms… This forum’s gunship focus is a good occasion to admit it, alas. Here is my dear twin-boom P-38 Lightning equipped with 16 heavy guns, to mass murder a Vietnamese peaceful village classified as suspect (of not loving our civilization, all full of love and freedom as proven here…). :( :icon_sueno: :icon_crap: :-\

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 11:43:53 AM »
With pivoting guns, I think only 8 turrest would be installed, with the fuselage all full of bullets, to murder even more/"better":

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 11:46:08 AM »
And with a touch of asymmetry, a circle of fire would be possible "thanks to" this rotating Lightning (still with 8 guns):
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 11:49:06 AM by Tophe »

Offline Weaver

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 10:27:11 PM »
The asymetric one is interesting Tophe: getting arcs of fire past wing-mounted engines/stores is one of the problems gunship designers have. It's one reason I think the An-72 with it's overwing engines would be highly suitable.
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Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2016, 11:39:34 PM »
Engines above the wing for a free space below? Yes, it is very possible, even without jets. Is this the A-38W (for Weaver) or A-38A-72 (for An-72)?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 04:09:08 AM »
Tophe, maybe just make a gunship with a bunch of these:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline ericr

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 05:40:55 AM »
Tophe, maybe just make a gunship with a bunch of these:


 ;D

Offline Weaver

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2016, 10:57:33 AM »
Engines above the wing for a free space below? Yes, it is very possible, even without jets. Is this the A-38W (for Weaver) or A-38A-72 (for An-72)?

Oh nice one! That's given me an idea for something else as well...  ;)
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

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Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2016, 02:24:26 PM »
Thanks to all !
And here is the Water-Baloon-Gun-Ship-38, thanks again to GTX !

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2016, 03:23:20 AM »
 :)

Maybe it could be flown by International Clown Rescue - an elite force of highly trained clowns that are sent to the world's trouble spots to make everyone stop being so stupid and to simply laugh at themselves:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2016, 11:21:47 AM »
 ;) Thanks for this smile !  :icon_music:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2016, 05:20:57 PM »
When I was a teenager, in the late 1970s, I had the (justified) reputation to be a lover of model kits, BUT I was very afraid that someone offers me someday a kit of tank killing machine instead of the bird-like aircraft that I loved...
What would have I done if that had happened?: a tank-aircraft mix, maybe - and for aerodynamic reasons, the gun cannot be pointed forward, so sidewards would have made it a gunship... unpleasant but possibly built, if... (what-if...):

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2016, 09:38:50 PM »
Being 51% tank and 49% airplane (instead of 49% and 51%) would have given this horror:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2016, 10:41:56 PM »
Ahem, the aircraft above had no propeller nor jet engine, and seems a glider or sailplane (like the Antonov An-KT?), but this was mainly that I forgot to replace the propeller that was in the nose. Does this qualify as a gunship anyway? The "true" one could have been this:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2016, 05:32:44 PM »
I suddenly realize something obvious (I was such a fool not thinking about it): no need of firing/killing guns, I may invent Lightning with turrets for either guns in the military role or tourists in civilian role...:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2016, 01:25:06 AM »
Of course (?), there was a canard version of it:

Offline Weaver

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2016, 03:04:38 AM »
The tourists could be issued with photo-sniper-style cameras, like the ones used by non-violent hunters which take a picture with a cross-wire superimposed on it, so they could prove what they'd peacefully 'straffed'. Extra points for nudist private sunbathers.... >:D
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2016, 11:00:47 AM »
 ;) (thanks for this wise comment, with a funny touch of non-lethal evil  >:D :D )!

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2016, 03:29:00 PM »
The canard Lightning XCA-38 had an airliner derivative, outscope here, but also a tourism/gunship derivative which is good (or bad) for here >:D ...

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2016, 04:59:03 PM »
The pusher versions were almost the same, but this was rather different for the gunship part of the family:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2016, 11:47:20 PM »
I don't know if a gunship pod already existed, otherwise I have invented it (for the tourism civilian version, I prefer :( ):

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2016, 06:51:48 PM »
Lightning without lateral tractor engines (for no obstruction to tourist view or gun shooting):

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2016, 09:42:30 PM »
On the opposite, a rear post may have lateral appendices:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2016, 11:29:54 PM »
Another possibility came from parasol wing (including Catalina-like flying boat), or parasol sesquiplane... ;)
[I need a very long pylon due to my angle, hiding the pod behind the engine, sorry) ???

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2016, 04:14:12 PM »
The P-384-2 twin-engined derivative of the 4-engined Lightning P-384 could have been a gunship:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2016, 05:12:22 PM »
There were also the AE-38A, B, C with aft tractor engines:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2016, 10:34:59 PM »
 :) Here is another one, but I lack ideas to complete my usual batches of 3... :(

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2016, 12:08:07 AM »
I have completed with 2 derivatives but they are not gunship. I think the last one cannot produce a gunship version, because lateral guns are directed downwards, no?

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2016, 12:23:01 AM »
Maybe there was a VTOL gunship, in the V-22 Osprey family, but the first (and second) tailsitter gunship(s) belonged to the Lightning family:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2016, 12:56:44 AM »
As well, the first Powered Hang Glider gunships were part of the Lightning family:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2016, 12:58:43 AM »
from the rules at http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6165.0 :
Helicopters are admissable, but please note that normal-style 'helicopter gunships' of the Hueycobra layout are not, since the turreted guns do not constitute their main weapon.

Yes, there were helicopters too in the Lightning twin-boom family, of course:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2016, 12:16:44 AM »
The Gull-wing Lightning seems it had a gunship derivative, and there was a Burnelli Lightning this way also:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2016, 10:16:46 PM »
With vertical booms (no lateral booms), it is more easy to have free sides:

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2016, 02:53:11 AM »
Different
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2016, 08:38:37 PM »
Yes, while this was not the last possibility...

Offline Weaver

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2016, 10:07:37 PM »
With vertical booms (no lateral booms), it is more easy to have free sides:


Vertical booms is interesting. You might imagine a flying boat with a pylon-mounted wing and a single central engine (like a single-engined Catalina) having it's engine pod extended backward into a boom to support the tip of the fin. Alternatively, it might have a very high pylon (probably associated with a biplane layout) and a pusher engine, or even a push-pull combo, in the middle of the pylon, with the upper boom supporting the tail fin.

Getting even further off-topic, imagine a twin-float machine with X-shaped tail surfaces attached to the floats at the bottom ends and twin booms at the top ones, and a pusher engine at the back of a fuseage pod.
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

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Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2016, 11:31:42 PM »
 :-* Thanks for this bunch of ideas! They will be (unless I am killed before)... ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2016, 10:53:33 AM »
You might imagine a flying boat with a pylon-mounted wing and a single central engine (like a single-engined Catalina) having it's engine pod extended backward into a boom to support the tip of the fin.
(First of 3 families) here are the Weavereed W-38A, YW-38, XW-38, thanks again!

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 12:33:06 PM »
Alternatively, it might have a very high pylon (probably associated with a biplane layout) and a pusher engine, or even a push-pull combo, in the middle of the pylon, with the upper boom supporting the tail fin.
(Second of the 3 families) Weavereed W-38B, YW-38B, XW-38B:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2016, 12:16:38 AM »
Getting even further off-topic, imagine a twin-float machine with X-shaped tail surfaces attached to the floats at the bottom ends and twin booms at the top ones, and a pusher engine at the back of a fuseage pod.
(Third family) This is not (completely) off topic... W-38C, YW-38C, XW-38C (the W-38C being a gunship or tourist aircraft)

Offline ericr

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2016, 02:01:18 AM »
warf!
any aircraft can be improved by fitting floats  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2016, 01:18:05 PM »
Thanks! (I supposed this is approval, while Google Translate told me that the English "warf" means the French "quai de marchandise" = dock...)

The one to thank is Weaver, having included floats in his design.
I could use his X-tail without floats, it seems:

Offline ericr

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2016, 02:04:53 PM »
Thanks! (I supposed this is approval, while Google Translate told me that the English "warf" means the French "quai de marchandise" = dock...)

The one to thank is Weaver, having included floats in his design.
I could use his X-tail without floats, it seems:

I meant "ouarf" actually, in french  ;)

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2016, 11:50:08 PM »
Sorry, I was still puzzled, but Google explained:
"OUARF OUARF !" (Traduction du langage chien : " JE SUIS TROP CONTENT !"*
(Warf if the way dogs say 'I am very happy')

Thanks!!! ;)

PS. *: Thanks also to https://www.facebook.com/gendarmerie.de.la.Gironde/posts/294679260698698
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 11:52:26 PM by Tophe »

Offline Weaver

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2016, 05:58:09 AM »
You might imagine a flying boat with a pylon-mounted wing and a single central engine (like a single-engined Catalina) having it's engine pod extended backward into a boom to support the tip of the fin.
(First of 3 families) here are the Weavereed W-38A, YW-38, XW-38, thanks again!


Nice one Tophe, although not exactly what I had in mind (same goes for the next set also). What I was thinking of was the tail fin being attached at it's root to the flying boat hull and at it's tip to the boom.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2016, 06:00:01 AM »
Getting even further off-topic, imagine a twin-float machine with X-shaped tail surfaces attached to the floats at the bottom ends and twin booms at the top ones, and a pusher engine at the back of a fuseage pod.
(Third family) This is not (completely) off topic... W-38C, YW-38C, XW-38C (the W-38C being a gunship or tourist aircraft)

Now those are very nice, particularly the middle one. Thank you.  :)

They could probably do without the small vertical tails, since the X-surfaces would function as both elevators and rudders in the manner of the V-tail seen on the Magister and Bonanza.

Thinknig about it some more, the X-surfaces would probably need a small bullet fairing where they cross to clean up the airflow and avoid turbulence, as was discovered with the Whirlwind, Sea Hawk etc...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 06:02:58 AM by Weaver »
"I have described nothing but what I saw myself, or learned from others" - Thucydides

"I've jazzed mine up a bit" - Spike Milligan

"I'm a general specialist," - Harry Purvis in Tales from the White Hart by Arthur C. Clarke

Twitter: @hws5mp
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Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2016, 11:35:06 AM »
Yes, these are the final versions Weavereed W-38A², B², C²: (thanks!)

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2016, 06:17:41 PM »
Ahem, I guess gunships are not always murdering civilans: sometimes there is fire back and there is a need of armoured airplanes:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2016, 01:40:19 AM »
With lateral engines separated from booms came other members of this family here, ending with an asymmetric twin-boomer, my favourite layout:

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2016, 01:59:54 PM »
The same with a little "more tail" (for balance):

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2016, 01:08:26 AM »
The Thunderbird-38 (not -2) had room for a million bullets or something, removable (the best murderer ever?):

Offline Tophe

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Re: P-38 killers
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2016, 11:28:13 AM »
from the Rules at http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6165.0 :
Ammunition is getting low...better wrap up this mission soon chaps!

Well, no more ammunition at all means peace, and I love peace... ;)
but alas I keep on dreaming, sorry...