Author Topic: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70  (Read 36408 times)

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2015, 05:58:47 AM »
My recent foray to Skyway Models resulted in the DML/Dragon/Black Label KPz-70 coming home with me for a price that could not be ignored.  Yes Emil the Enabler did make me an offer I could not refuse.  :)

To be honest, I am no real fan of the driver in the turret configuration used on the MBT-70/KPz-70 and I was wondering how I get away with not using that configuration.  There is the option to add a drivers position but that would require some creativity and might require lengthening the hull to make room for the driver.  Another option that would take care of this in a hurry would be to just take the KPz-70 turret and drop it into a different hull. 

The candidate hull for this would be the M1 Abrams or the Leopard II as they are available in my stash and without purpose at the moment.  My preference at first would be to use the M1 Abrams hull as I happened to have one sitting on the rack in my 20.0' cargo container and easy to access.  That was my first choice and the turret does fit with no interference with the engine deck.  Second choice is the Leopard II hull, I have a couple of the Italeri and ESCI kits on the same rack in the cargo container and I will take a look at those later today or at least this week, time permitting. 

Another possibility that comes to mind as I type this out is to check and see if the Challenger or Chieftain hull might work with theKPz-70 turret.  Need to dig out the Trumpeter Challenger kits and the Tamiya Chieftain kits to check on that but both have to be located before that can happen. 

After the turret swap, the next thing to do is get rid of that huge featureless 152mm gun tube and replace it with something a bit smaller like the 120mm from the Leopard II or the M1A1/M1A2.  Of course if the Chieftain or Challenger hull works it might be fun to see if the gun tube from the Chieftain or Challenger will fit the KPz-70 turret. 

With that, I now wonder what could be done with the KPz-70 hull?  No driver compartment so it is perfect for a robot tank/unmanned armoured fighting vehicle. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2016, 09:49:03 AM »
With 120 mm and 140 mm guns


Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2016, 02:15:26 AM »
Those look great!

I really wish someone would produce a 140mm barrel in 1/35.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2016, 04:59:08 PM »
Here you can see MBT-70 compared with M-60 IMHO it is not so difficult to make room in hull for driver ...



... here turret has been moved aft and glacis has been modified in central area,



Now thinking on using freed area in turret to install a rocket launcher. Antitank and anti-helicopter too.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 08:45:35 PM by ysi_maniac »

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 09:34:58 AM »
According with last line drawings I have calculated that hull without wheels is about 95 cm high; which is enough, as you can see in the Formula-1 draw, enough for a driver in hull. I admit that not very confortable. Driver in this draw needs 132 x 75 cm.



Lets speak about the issue. Am i right, in your opinion?

Is it possible to install a magazine with some missiles in the turret, in driver's room? Can you give me an idea on how to conbine some antitank and some anti helicopter missiles?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 09:41:44 AM by ysi_maniac »

Offline Crbad

  • I'd buy that for a dollar!
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2016, 11:20:33 AM »
Maybe you could mount ADAT missile tubes on the sides of the turret like the Russian terminator. This way you could kill two birds with one stone.
Craig's Bureau of Aeronautics Design: Shoddy engineering and marginal skill for the undiscerning modelling enthusiast.

Offline Kerick

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2016, 11:22:23 AM »
From what I understand about the Abrams the driver is in a reclining position. From what I've heard the driver frequently has to be woken up as they tend to fall asleep in that position.
I also heard the driver in the MBT 70 could get disoriented and car sick if the turret swung around too fast.
This is from my questionable memory so take it for what its worth.

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2016, 01:51:39 PM »
Removing the driver from the turret would certainly free up space for something practical like an observation and targeting device. 

From what I understand about the Abrams the driver is in a reclining position. From what I've heard the driver frequently has to be woken up as they tend to fall asleep in that position.

I also heard the driver in the MBT 70 could get disoriented and car sick if the turret swung around too fast
This is from my questionable memory so take it for what its worth.

Driver disorientation was mentioned in several reference books on the MBT-70/KPz.70

Have not read anything about Abrams drivers falling asleep though it does seem like it would be easy to do considering that reclined seating position.
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Kerick

  • Reportedly finished with a stripper...
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2016, 09:15:49 PM »
At least I believe it's when they are stopped for a length of time and not while driving. I hope.....

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2016, 04:34:58 AM »
as you can see in the Formula-1 draw, enough for a driver in hull. I admit that not very confortable.


I was under the impression that this sort of position was actually quite comfortable.  In fact, it aligns quite well with some purpose designed chairs:


All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2016, 11:27:23 AM »
Obviously Chieftain/Challenger drivers are made of sterner stuff than Abrahms drivers...  ;)

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2016, 11:54:05 AM »
Using driver's hatch in Buford's style will give us some additional room. http://www.combatreform.org/lighttanks.htm

Offline jcf

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2016, 01:09:03 PM »
Obviously Chieftain/Challenger drivers are made of sterner stuff than Abrahms drivers...  ;)

Nawp, just used to the shite that passes for British ergonomics. One of those UK oxymorons like Lucas lighting;D
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2016, 01:18:52 PM »
Obviously Chieftain/Challenger drivers are made of sterner stuff than Abrahms drivers...  ;)

Nawp, just used to the shite that passes for British ergonomics. One of those UK oxymorons like Lucas lighting;D

I think you mean "Lucas Electrics".  Nowt wrong with the lighting, its just the supply or lack of electricity to the globes!  ;D

Maybe they made the Lucas stuff differently downunder but I've never heard anyone curse them the way you yanks and the poms do...

Offline jcf

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2016, 02:27:06 PM »
Obviously Chieftain/Challenger drivers are made of sterner stuff than Abrahms drivers...  ;)

Nawp, just used to the shite that passes for British ergonomics. One of those UK oxymorons like Lucas lighting;D

I think you mean "Lucas Electrics".  Nowt wrong with the lighting, its just the supply or lack of electricity to the globes!  ;D

Maybe they made the Lucas stuff differently downunder but I've never heard anyone curse them the way you yanks and the poms do...

Just paraphrasing the old joke, Lucas, Prince of Darkness as I've worked with Lucas stuff, automotive, marine and aircraft, and never found anything particularly wrong with any of it when compared to other manufacturers.

The real problem period is the Brit autos of the conjoined/nationalized era as the Government bureaucrats evidently
specified the cheapest, standardized solution for everything, with predictable results.  ;D

BTW, I'm not a Yank.  ;)
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Volkodav

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2016, 09:49:18 PM »
Knew a bloke with a Jag, electrics by Lucas, that had head lights, indicators, brake light, power windows go out on one side of his car after an electrical storm before just as mysteriously starting to work again a couple of days later before the other side went then everything all together.  Prince / Lord of Darkness was a running joke for ages every time he was late for work with another car drama story, though half the time or more I suspect he slept in and was just blaming the car.

As for drivers sleeping, if you weren't driving or servicing the vehicle (or any of the multitude of other jobs they had you do), sleeping in your seat was perfectly sensible thing to do, even in a seat as uncomfortable as the M-113 one I used to inhabit as a lowly driver.

Offline Story

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2021, 05:34:01 AM »
With 120 mm and 140 mm guns




These remind me of the old TWILIGHT 2000 illustrations.
Also reminds me of the Aurora square box with the lurid cover art
https://imodeler.com/2018/06/mbt-70-a-cold-war-mistake-aurora-1-48/



So there's 3D models and files for this tank now
1/87th https://www.therailroadconnection.com/products/1-87th-scale-3d-printed-u-s-army-mbt-70-main-battle-tank
1/100th https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3094372
Scale up by 114.94% to get HO scale.
For 1/72, scale up by 138.89%.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 05:53:20 AM by Story »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2021, 07:13:05 AM »
I wish there was an easy way to put the driver back into the hull on the MBT-70/XM-803.  Maybe replace the hull outright with an early M1 Abrams hull? 
The 120mm armed MBT-70 does look like the best choice for a different main gun. 
"Every day we hear about new studies 'revealing' what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations; 'Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased" -- Jonah Goldberg

Offline Story

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2021, 11:08:04 AM »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2021, 03:51:14 AM »
I wish there was an easy way to put the driver back into the hull on the MBT-70/XM-803.  Maybe replace the hull outright with an early M1 Abrams hull? 
The 120mm armed MBT-70 does look like the best choice for a different main gun.

But its one of the defining features!

I wish someone could produce some 1/35 140mm main gun barrels.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline M.A.D

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2021, 01:03:26 PM »
I wish there was an easy way to put the driver back into the hull on the MBT-70/XM-803.  Maybe replace the hull outright with an early M1 Abrams hull? 
The 120mm armed MBT-70 does look like the best choice for a different main gun.

But its one of the defining features!

I wish someone could produce some 1/35 140mm main gun barrels.

Or even the later 120mm/55-cal😯

MAD

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2021, 05:36:39 PM »
I wish there was an easy way to put the driver back into the hull on the MBT-70/XM-803.  Maybe replace the hull outright with an early M1 Abrams hull? 

But its one of the defining features!

As was the driver's vomit sprayed all over the instrument panels, apparently. ;)
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline ysi_maniac

  • I will die understanding not this world
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2021, 11:58:57 AM »
About the 20mm gun in unmanned litle turret. How was this gun aimed?

Offline Rickshaw

  • "Of course, I could be talking out of my hat"
Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2021, 03:25:09 PM »
About the 20mm gun in unmanned litle turret. How was this gun aimed?
With difficulty?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: MBT-70 (XM803, M803), KPz.70
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2021, 01:56:40 AM »
No real difference to any other remote weapon:

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.