Author Topic: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.  (Read 12954 times)

Offline dy031101

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M3 Grants/Lees used German 75mm shells (after they were remanufactured to British standards) in the Western Desert in 1942-3.

Curiosity...... did they have a chance to see how far they could go with Ex-German HEAT projectiles?

I don't think there were any HEAT rounds in the Western Desert.  Hunnicutt who mentions the remanufacture of German shells only refers to HE rounds.  The shells had to have their driving bands machined to allow them to fit the US 75mm barrel and they had to be put on US 75mm shell cases (the powder from the German shells was reused).  Apparently they had to make the lathes run in reverse because running them clockwise had an unfortunate effect on the fuses - arming them!  :o

I recently heard of an experiment in UK involving combining the HEAT projectile from the 75mm pack howitzer with the case used by short-75mm tank gun ammo and test firing it out of a short-75mm gun Sherman.

That, coupled with the above-quoted discussion, gave rise to this question of my curiosity: what kind of equipment would be needed to remanufacture tank gun ammos in this manner?  Could the said equipment be packed up, moved, and then deployed in any manner similar to, say, a field repair shop?
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2014, 09:15:38 AM »
I would suggest this sort of thing would need to be undertaken by a specialist ordnance depot at a base workshops.  While the equipment could be made fairly mobile, the conditions under which it would need to be operated (clean workshops, non-spark flooring, bunds, etc.) couldn't.   It is actually a highly specialised job and one that shouldn't be undertaken lightly except by those qualified to do so.  Ammunition handling, storage and maintenance is a specialist role in most Armies and the Ammo Techs have to undergo specialised training for it, particularly with concerns towards safety (and safety can't be drummed in enough, you don't get second chances with ammunition).

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 03:24:57 AM »
Ammunition handling, storage and maintenance is a specialist role in most Armies and the Ammo Techs have to undergo specialised training for it, particularly with concerns towards safety (and safety can't be drummed in enough, you don't get second chances with ammunition).

Now days, definitely.  Back in WWII…maybe.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 03:27:01 AM »
BTW, there have been some interesting things happening in this field recently - this story just scratches the surface.
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 09:27:08 AM »
Ammunition handling, storage and maintenance is a specialist role in most Armies and the Ammo Techs have to undergo specialised training for it, particularly with concerns towards safety (and safety can't be drummed in enough, you don't get second chances with ammunition).

Now days, definitely.  Back in WWII…maybe.

Even in WWII.  I remember being forced to view several WWII era British training films about ammunition safety.  Obviously some of the aspects of handling have changed appreciably and some of the worries (hob nailed boots and sparks) aren't as significant but a lot of the basics were laid down even before WWII.  I also learnt there were quite a few ideas which were never well document and which were based on hard experience.  Ammunition explosions were a real danger back then and surprisingly common but a lot of work went into trying to prevent them.  The problem is that people become careless over time and that as why we always rotated diggers in and out of different dangerous roles (ie Ammo Tech, POL Operator, etc) fairly frequently - not only to give them experience in them but to make sure they didn't become complacent.    I remember one exercise where a box of all ball ammunition was found in a pallet of blank.  It had been packed at the main ammo depot, it caused an Australia-wide stoppage on all blank ammunition issues, all because someone had become complacent.  The culprit was never traced but it could have had tragic consequences if one of our diggers had not noticed it when he was issuing to an infantry unit.

Offline raafif

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 12:38:05 PM »
Russian Vityaz DT10/DT-25/DT-30 tracked articulated carrier - many videos of it & other types on youtube.


Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 01:25:03 PM »
M548:


M113as4 logistical carrier:


Stormer logistical carrier:


Turkish ACV-S Logistical carrier:



Offline raafif

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2014, 12:11:47 PM »
WW1 German Logistics ...

Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 08:31:27 PM »
M993 Load Carrier, derived from the M2 Bradley, hear using the UK DROPS system:



Alvis Stalwart, derived from the Saladin/Saracen chassis:




Offline Kerick

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2014, 02:03:04 AM »
After reading the book "Thunder Run" about the armored units blasting their way into downtown Baghdad in 2003, I was thinking of building a Bradley style supply vehicle. It seems the armored units had little trouble driving into Baghdad but the unarmored supply vehicles had a really tough time following them. The armored units almost had to pull out due to a shortage of fuel and ammunition. I was thinking of a Bradley with the turret removed and a raised cargo compartment replacing the troop area. Keep the rear ramp and add large overhead hatches for loading and unloading (or is that offloading?) That way the fuel and/or ammunition would be under armor protection when approaching the lead armored vehicles. Perhaps a crane mounted on the roof would be a good touch. Like I need more projects!  :o :icon_meditation:

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 02:47:20 AM »
I like your thinking. :)
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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 09:09:48 AM »
After reading the book "Thunder Run" about the armored units blasting their way into downtown Baghdad in 2003, I was thinking of building a Bradley style supply vehicle. It seems the armored units had little trouble driving into Baghdad but the unarmored supply vehicles had a really tough time following them. The armored units almost had to pull out due to a shortage of fuel and ammunition. I was thinking of a Bradley with the turret removed and a raised cargo compartment replacing the troop area. Keep the rear ramp and add large overhead hatches for loading and unloading (or is that offloading?) That way the fuel and/or ammunition would be under armor protection when approaching the lead armored vehicles. Perhaps a crane mounted on the roof would be a good touch. Like I need more projects!  :o :icon_meditation:

Out running the logistics "tail" is a time honoured tradition amongst armoured units.  With the M1 Abrahms though, it doesn't take long to run out of fuel, one of the inherent disadvantages of the use of a gas turbine engine.  British units in both invasions of Iraq often remarked how their Challengers would motor past US units engaged in refuelling (and it's one reason why the British and French were assigned in '91 the much longer left flank outflanking movement, the logistics load if US units had undertaken it would have had a detrimental effect on the conduct of the campaign, sucking most of the logistics vehicles away from the rest of the force).

The M993 is based on the Bradley and is armoured (not to the same extent, admittedly).  A M2 based load carrier couldn't carry very much and would be comparatively expensive.  It'd make an interesting build though.  Perhaps add a HIAB crane and a roller floor so that you can slide pallets in and out?  Replace the turret with a simple cupola with a .50 cal, a'la M113 (with shield, of course).  Move the cupola as far forward as possible.  Alternatively, as with the M113as4 load carrier, cut the hull away completely and just leave a vestigial crew compartment and a flat bed load carrying area?

Offline Kerick

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2014, 12:33:15 AM »
Mostly I was thinking of a way to use a Bradley missing its turret that was used for my Patton/Bradley build. The back story could be what if the "Thunder run" situation had dragged on or become a more common tactic in other cities then the armored vehicle resupply vehicle would have become a necessity. The idea being that some Bradleys had their turrets removed to make room and increase payload. A TC hatch would be a good idea.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2014, 12:56:19 AM »
Logistics carrier version of the GCV / Nammer........looks like the Stormer but much bigger

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2014, 12:02:48 PM »
Just to be cheeky! ;)

High Mobility Battlefield Logistics Transport (HMBLT)

(aka Honey Mustard Bacon Lettuce & Tomato)

;D
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2014, 04:24:00 AM »
Looking good…and tasty! ;)
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Offline raafif

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2014, 06:15:50 AM »
lookin' great ! Wombat :)


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Offline Kerick

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2014, 10:50:16 AM »
The second photo proves the US Army's Gamma Goat wasn't such a new idea!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2015, 09:07:25 AM »
I'm putting this here in lieu of any other obvious area:  The Pearson Engineering Route Opening and Clearing Capability (PEROCC) vehicle - I reckon it looks cool:

https://youtu.be/B3cAbDauvqo


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Offline Rickshaw

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2015, 11:21:43 AM »
Unless they are two different vehicles, one of the photos is reversed.

Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 04:15:50 PM »
Err, not on my end. The pics are fine. Everything sits right where it's supposed to.

Reversed or not: I want one in 1/35! :icon_beer:
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 04:18:15 PM by ChernayaAkula »
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Offline Gingie

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2015, 10:30:59 PM »
that may just be the coolest eroc I've ever seen!

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2015, 03:33:15 AM »
Unless they are two different vehicles, one of the photos is reversed.

One photo shows the front, the other the rear - its quite simple!
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2015, 03:36:52 AM »
that may just be the coolest eroc I've ever seen!

I am with you there.

I want one in 1/35! :icon_beer:

Me too!
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Logistical Carriers, Recovery Vehicles, Field Repair Shops, Etc.
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2015, 03:39:04 AM »
Just noted that Pearson Engineering will be at next year's Singapore Air Show...as will I.  Will have to go have a closer look at this.
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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But you can make the Bastard work for it.