Author Topic: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 156307 times)

Offline Litvyak

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #350 on: April 03, 2022, 10:28:56 PM »
North American Thoroughbred



This looks very right.
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Offline perttime

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #351 on: April 04, 2022, 02:10:36 AM »
North American Thoroughbred

...
This looks very right.
I like the look - - - but then it baffles me.
I don't see a propeller in the nose but otherwise it looks like there is an engine there. Or maybe a radar?
Three engines would probably be overkill, two might make sense if you can carry enough fuel to give it some range.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 02:12:42 AM by perttime »

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #352 on: April 04, 2022, 03:23:41 PM »
North American Thoroughbred

...
This looks very right.
I like the look - - - but then it baffles me.
I don't see a propeller in the nose but otherwise it looks like there is an engine there. Or maybe a radar?
Three engines would probably be overkill, two might make sense if you can carry enough fuel to give it some range.

That question was answered over on WIM:

2 x engines
2 x 20mm cannon firing through the opening above the nose*.


[*: My take on it is that the opening is to improve air cooling of, & fume extraction from the weapons.]
"This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and, ah, explode."

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #353 on: April 21, 2023, 05:19:25 AM »
The High Planes 1/72 Mustang Mk.X. The kit comes with three (or four) configuration options which covers all the prototypes. I built mine with one of the upgrades the Mustang Mk.X got but is not in the kit. Wind tunnel tests had determined the fin didn't have sufficient area but I'll have to re-read the book to find out what it was, but it involved adding a 3" wide fin leading edge extension, from fuselage to fin tip.

RR received five surplus to requirement Mustang Mk.I's (Allison engine), one was kept in original condition so RR could do direct comparisons with the Merlin conversion. My build is of the final configuration and had a Spitfire Mk.IX engine, prop and spinner.
AFAIK from reading, the other approach to enlarging the vertical surface was an extended chord rudder, but that reduced roll rates.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #354 on: April 21, 2023, 05:31:26 AM »
Just a thought, the Mustang was originally commissioned by the Anglo French Procurement Board.  If the commission had been let earlier or if France had not fallen so quickly, you might see Allison-engined Mustangs in French markings.  'Twould be something different.

Regarding engine changes, NAA looked at the Continental IV1430 and R-R Griffon as well as Allison's initial two-stage supercharger propsoal amd all of them were rejected as they all required major airframe changes.  NAA's managemnt was especially leaned on regarding the Allison engine since, at that time, NAA and Allison were both owned by General Motors and the Board of Directors wanted to keep teh Mustang engine in-house if at all possible.

An excellent book covering the Mustang from the founding of NAA up to beyond D-Day is P-51B, How North American's bastard Stepchild Fighter Saved the Eighth Air Force.  Apparently, there was a prejudice against the Mustane in USAAF Material Command from General Echols on down (seems he wanted NAA to take over p-40 production instead so Curtiss could retool to build the production P-46, which never passed the XP-46 trials.  Echols was also a major force behind the P-75 as a long-range escort for bomber streams over Germany and he was not overjoyed when NAA managed to develop the P-51B et al. to do the job.

Offline Kerick

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #355 on: April 21, 2023, 09:36:47 AM »
General Echols sounds like the wrong guy to have in charge of procurement when there was a war on. At a time like that you have to go with what works, not what would be nice to have or personal favorites.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #356 on: April 21, 2023, 03:06:33 PM »
I wouldn't be bagging Oliver Echols too much, he did a lot for USAAF procurement prior to & during WW2.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/107117/major-general-oliver-p-echols/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_P._Echols
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #357 on: April 21, 2023, 05:28:23 PM »
I wouldn't be bagging Oliver Echols too much, he did a lot for USAAF procurement prior to & during WW2.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/107117/major-general-oliver-p-echols/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_P._Echols
Yes, and he had enough mis-steps that he had no influence after the war. I understand General Arnold was quite unhappy with him.  It was his direction to keep supplying Packard-built Merlins to Curtiss for the P-40F et al. that slowed down deevelopment of the P-51B and then deliveries of complete P-51Bs, it took a very pointed instructions from Gen.Arnold to change that.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2024, 12:15:23 PM by elmayerle »

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #358 on: April 22, 2023, 03:00:34 AM »
Just a thought, the Mustang was originally commissioned by the Anglo French Procurement Board.  If the commission had been let earlier or if France had not fallen so quickly, you might see Allison-engined Mustangs in French markings.  'Twould be something different.

I like your thinking
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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #359 on: June 19, 2023, 02:51:45 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #360 on: June 19, 2023, 02:52:00 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline ChernayaAkula

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #361 on: July 01, 2023, 10:34:27 PM »
Ooooh, pretty!  :-*

I don't know why my brain did this, but upon seeing this "P-51Z" it went "How about a Dornier Pfeil, but from Mustang parts?" It's a good question, tho.
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Offline raafif

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #362 on: July 20, 2023, 07:22:42 AM »

Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #363 on: July 25, 2023, 10:23:55 AM »
Just a thought, the Mustang was originally commissioned by the Anglo French Procurement Board.  If the commission had been let earlier or if France had not fallen so quickly, you might see Allison-engined Mustangs in French markings.  'Twould be something different.
Another thought from this, Allison-powered Mustangs in Vichy French service.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #364 on: January 26, 2024, 02:43:37 AM »
Random idea:  CAC produced F-82 as post war replacement for Beaufighters/Mosquitos?
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Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #365 on: February 12, 2024, 01:30:04 AM »

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #366 on: February 12, 2024, 03:25:14 AM »
P-51C / CAC CA-17 Mustang Mk 19:
  • P-51C

Not sure what the author is saying about the canopy or do mean a C model airframe? Regardless that gave me the idea to shim in the P-51C as the Mark 19.

From Wikipedia:

Local assembly of the P-51D (CA-17; Mk 20)

Plans to assemble a proven fighter locally began to bear fruit in December 1942, the War Cabinet began to make arrangements with North American Aviation (NAA) for CAC to assemble the P-51 Mustang. These arrangements were finalized in November 1943, with CAC scheduled to build 690 P-51Ds, from kits made in the United States by NAA.[2] (As it awaited arrival of the kits, CAC privately continued work on the CA-15, as a possible back-up or even replacement for, the Mustang. However, the US-built radial engines intended for the CA-15 became unavailable, also hampering that project.)

Only 100 unassembled P-51s were ever delivered, and four reportedly had the "razorback" style canopy of the P-51B/C variant. In either late 1944 or early 1945, assembly of 80 of the P-51D kits commenced, under the designation CA-17 Mustang Mk 20 with Packard V-1710-3 Merlin engines, with the remainder being used for spare parts.[2][3][4] The end of the war led to cancellation of the remainder of the kits ordered from NAA.

and

P-51L / CAC CA-21 Mustang Mk.24
  • P-51D with wingtip Ramjets

P-51M / CAC CA-21 Mustang Mk.25
  • P-51H in the RAAF

P-51N  / CAC CA-21 Mustang Mk.26
  • P-51H fuselage with a D wing and Tip tanks
  • An unauthorized Cavalier Mustang II knock off
  • Use the RS P-51Hs in the stash. And Blackbird Cavalier Conversion kit
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 07:04:06 AM by The Big Gimper »
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: P-51 Mustang and Derivates Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #367 on: April 26, 2024, 12:17:23 PM »
Allison-powered Mustangs in USAAC pre-WW II markings with yellow wings and blu or OD fuselages?  Perhaps some fuselage trim akin to that done on the P-26?