Douglas A-1 Skyraider Ideas and Inspiration

[Daryl J.]

Two thumbs up.

[Weaver]

That looks excellent - nice one!  :)

[gogs007]

Guys I am looking to make a 2014 skyraider, I am looking to arm it with lgb, brimstone and or jdam. What I am stuck on are the cannon, do I stick with 20mm or change it. Can I have some suggestions .

[kitnut617]

Just say they're 25mm or 30mm.  Mind you, you could replace them with a 20mm M61 Vulcan in each wing ---   

[Old Wombat]

Guys I am looking to make a 2014 skyraider, I am looking to arm it with lgb, brimstone and or jdam. What I am stuck on are the cannon, do I stick with 20mm or change it. Can I have some suggestions .

What about using the Rheinmetall (ex-Mauser) BK-27, 27mm cannon?

[Weaver]

Guys I am looking to make a 2014 skyraider, I am looking to arm it with lgb, brimstone and or jdam. What I am stuck on are the cannon, do I stick with 20mm or change it. Can I have some suggestions .

I'd say leave them. 20x110mm ammo is still available, they're as good as anything else against targets that can't shoot back effectively, and against targets that can (i.e. that have MANPADS) you'll want to stay so far out of range that any kind of cannon will be useless.

If 20x110mm ammo is difficult or undesirable, one possible option might be to replace them with M39 cannons (same as on the F-5) which fire the same 20x102mm round as the Vulcan.

[jcf]

-Doh, M3 not Mk.12, don't rely on memory always go to the bookshelf.-

The wing-mounted M3 cannon used in the AD-1 are basically the HS 404, any of the later cannon (ADEN, DEFA, BK 27, M-61 etc.) are much too large to fit in the same envelope as the M3. Weight is also an issue, i.e. 45 kilos for a M3, 100 kilos for a BK 27. The M39 is closed in general size, but is still much 'thicker' and would not fit within the wing. I suppose you could bulge the wing above and below and say it has M39s (one per wing), but it wouldn't do much for the aerodynamics.

As Harold sez, stick with the 20mm, but now that I've corrected my goof, swap out the M3 for the Mk.12,
it used the much more powerful M100 series ammo and had a higher rate of fire than the M3. Externally
you'd see no difference.
 

[Rickshaw]

BK27 ammo is also expensive and ASIUI no longer in production.  Trying to put a Vulcan in the wing, that far out would cause all sorts of problems with inertia, loads, etc.  I agree with Weaver, the existing cannot are quite good enough.   If you want more firepower, hang a cannon pod on it.

[Weaver]

I thought Rheinmetall were selling 27mm naval guns? In that case, the the ammo must still be in production, unless they've changed the spec so much that it's no longer compatible with the aircraft guns....?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

reduce the number of guns to two and make them 25mm or 30mm Bushmasters :)

[jcf]

Jeff, originally the AD only had two guns, mounted in the inner wing, the outer panel
guns were added during the AD-4 production run. Fatigue problems led to structural
mods that came in with the AD-6.

The problem is still available space, you'd be hard pressed to fit the 25mm Bushmaster,
let alone the 30mm, and the increased weight and force would lead to more structural
problems. The hot 100 series 20X110 used by the Mk.12 would be more than ample.

The M230 is the only one of the common chain-guns that could possibly be made to fit,
m/v and rate of fire are both much lower than the Mk.12.

[Rickshaw]

I thought Rheinmetall were selling 27mm naval guns? In that case, the the ammo must still be in production, unless they've changed the spec so much that it's no longer compatible with the aircraft guns....?

I think the air guns fire different rounds to the naval weapons.  The lack of manufacture may refer to UK manufacture - this was during the time when the RAF Typhoons weren't/were going to have guns fitted/used/ignored/used as ballast/etc.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Jeff, originally the AD only had two guns, mounted in the inner wing, the outer panel guns were added during the AD-4 production run. Fatigue problems led to structural mods that came in with the AD-6.

The problem is still available space, you'd be hard pressed to fit the 25mm Bushmaster, let alone the 30mm, and the increased weight and force would lead to more structural problems. The hot 100 series 20X110 used by the Mk.12 would be more than ample.  The M230 is the only one of the common chain-guns that could possibly be made to fit, m/v and rate of fire are both much lower than the Mk.12.

I recall the changes from two to four guns, never paid much attention to the hows and whys behind it all.  Amping it up to a pair of 30mm M230s would certainly create more destruction per shot fired which might make up for the lower muzzle velocities for attacking ground or surface targets.  I suppose you could get around the lack of internal space in the wings and emulate the Spitfire by adding bumps over the guns receiver sections.  That might actually look pretty nice if done right.  :)

[GTX_Admin]

I am sure most of you have heard/read about the Skyraider mission that dropped a toilet:



But did you know that there was an earlier one that dropped the Kitchen Sink?

[GTX_Admin]

Years ago I drew this:

Now look what turns up:




I'm seeing somewhat of a similarity with the first picture

[kitnut617]

Interesting find Greg,  but then they ended up doing this

[Jeffry Fontaine]

After seeing another VX-4 F-14 in all gloss black with the Bunny on the tail I had this brilliant idea for a VX-1 VX-4 Skyraider in all gloss black with a bunny on the tail. 

So why not!? 

It would be perfect for a what if and an excellent wind up tool on the display tables :)





*VX-4, not VX-1

[The Big Gimper]

Yes. No reason not to build it Jeff.    

The current VX-4 was established in 1952 so the all black Black Bunny scheme could have come into existence much sooner.  What not go big with a P-3? 

[KiwiZac]

Executive aircraft like the prewar A-17A based Model DT-202 proposal.
Use an AD-5/A-1E as the basis. Think Spartan Executive on steroids.
 

Yeah, I think I have to do something with this. Gorgeous!

[The Big Gimper]

Cool. The wings look like they are from a SBD Dauntless.

[elmayerle]

Cool. The wings look like they are from a SBD Dauntless.

Considering that the SBD evolved out of the A-17, that's hardly surprising.

[jcf]

Cool. The wings look like they are from a SBD Dauntless.

Considering that the SBD evolved out of the A-17, that's hardly surprising.

Yep, and the basic wing design goes all the way back to the Northrop Gamma.

[M.A.D]

What if Heineman designed fighters derived from Skyraider?

So it would have been more akin to a competitor to the Boeing XF8B (Model 400)?

M.A.D

[GTX_Admin]

What about a RAF Skyraider in classic grey/green scheme ala below:



Maybe have it that not long after retiring the Hawker Typhoons in 1945, the RAF decides it does need a heavy ground attack platform after all and thus make a purchase of Skyraiders...

[GTX_Admin]

Was there ever a 2 seat Skyraider with two crew in tandem?

I know there were the side-by-side seating (both 2 and 4 seat).