Hawker Hunter Ideas and Inspiration

[Volkodav]

I wonder about a Bristol Olympus, I know it was trialled in a Canberra, could a Hunter be adapted to fit one?  What it could be as there is only 10cm difference in diameter between the two (just over a mm in 1/72) I could just pretend my Hunter version has a deeper fuselage. 


 A simpler way forward would be a reheated Avon or Sapphire but then I need extra fuel.  How about the number of cannon are reduced to one or two and it / they are repositioned from under the nose to above it, or under the fuselage, maybe even the wing roots as done on the Gnat.  This would free up the former cannon / ammunition pack space for fuel.  If I sweep the wing back further I could also increase cord hence fuel capacity.  The logical replacement for this super Hunter would be the SAAB Draken as the was no follow on Hawker model produced.

What I am thinking is an Australian Hunter family, maybe a super Hunter, maybe a Sea Hunter as follow ons for the Hawker products that had initially been assembled then manufactured in Australia from the early thirties.

  CAC is sponsored by the government to produce sea planes, bombers, general purpose aircraft and aero engines, as well as develop an indigenous design capability while De Havilland assemble and build commercial and general aviation aircraft.  There is a perceived need to manufacture fighters, light bombers and support aircraft, in Australia, not just for the RAAF, but also for the RAN NAS (naval air service) and the Army Air Corps.  The selection of the Hawker Fury, Demon, Hart, Nimrod, Osprey and Audax for the three services saw Hawker being selected to establish a production facility in Australia, Fishermans Bend adjacent to CAC to be exact, and at the same time CAC were awarded the contract to manufacture the Rolls Royce Kestrel.

As war approached the RAAF selected the Hurricane as their first modern fighter along with the Henley as a fast light bomber.  CAC was awarded a license to manufacture the Merlin and negotiations were initiated to manufacture, not only, a .303" calibre version of the Browning M1919, but also the larger M2 and M3 .50" calibres HMGs.  Hawker Australia also produced Gloster Gladiators for the RAN and Army before developing navalised versions of the Hurricane and Henley as well as fighter bomber, dive bomber and torpedo bomber versions.  Hawkers ramped up production to supply Hurricanes and Henleys to the UK, NZ and South Africa at the same time as tooling up for the Typhoon then Tempest and Fury before the end of the war with CAC producing the Napier Sabres and Bristol Centurus. 

Post war Hawker Australia continued to produce Furies and Sea Furies then Hawks and Seahawks a Tay powered production version of the P1081 for the RAAF and RAN, which served well in Korea and allowed Australia to wait for a fully sorted version of the Hunter F6.  The Sea Hunter followed then a FGA Hunter before the final Super Hunter and its variants.

In this Althistoty CAC, as well as manufacturing Merlins, Centaurus, Wasp, Twin Wasp, Hercules, Nene, Tay and Avon, would still have built the Wirraway but also the B-25 Mitchell and A-36 before switching to the P-51B Mustang, then Sabre and FJ-4 Fury.  De Havilland, in addition to the Tigermoth, would build the DH Flamingo, developing ASW patrol, light bomber and improved military transport versions, before switching to the Mosquito, then Hornet, Sea Hornet, Vampire, Venom and Sea Venom before amalgamating with Hawker Australia.

Need to think this out a bit as there are a lot of missing aircraft from the RAAFs WWII OOB to cover but I'll get there.  Basically I want Hunters in the RAAF, RAN (including at see) and in the Army (which has a USMC type air element).  I also want to do a super Hunter that may or may not be supersonic in level flight but will have radar, missiles etc and remain in production longer becoming a big export earner.

[GTX_Admin]

Some inspiration from Clave:

[GTX_Admin]

Hawker P.1128, based on a proposal for a business jet, with side-by-side seating for two aircrew and six passengers. It was to be powered by two small Bristol Orpheus engines.

[GTX_Admin]

Supersonic Hunter developments:



P.1090. 500 wing from the P.1083 with radar, reheated Gyron & enlarged intakes:



P.1091 Delta Hunter.  Transonic at mach 0.98 with reheated Sapphire 4.  Would have been supersonic in a shallow dive.

[kitnut617]

Kit (PR19_Kit) is building a very nice two-seater Hunter using those high speed wings

[Volkodav]

That is nice

[elmayerle]

P.1083 with radar nose, F11F-1 "supersonic" tanks on inboard hardpoints, and Red Top or Blue Dolphin missiles on outboard hardpoints.

Same with the 3-foot fuselage extension advocated by the CFE for Hunters.

[Volkodav]

Is there a P.1083 kit or conversion available?

I am really zeroing in on a personal build theme of Hawker Australia being established pre WWII and providing multiple generations of fighter aircraft for the RAAF (and / or possibly Army Aviation / RAN FAA / RAM).  It would be part of an Australian pre war industrialisation along the lines of Canadas, setting up to provide material, not just for the AMF but for the Commonwealth as a whole.  This would slowly ramp up from 1932 instead of waiting until 1940/41 and then panicking.

It would start with either the Fury then maybe the Gladiator and move through Hurricane, Typhoon Tempest, Fury, Hawk, P.1081, Hunter and then P.1083, possibly (definitely  ) navalised versions of each.  I would also like to do a Demon, Hart, Osprey, Henley etc.

CAC would still do the Wirraway but probably not the Boomerang, but building early model Mustangs (Bs, Cs, maybe even A-36s), before settling on the D, as well as possibly Douglas A-20 and North American B-25 possibly then A/B-26 Invader would be nice.  CA15, Fury, Sabre, FJ-4 and a land based equivalent.  Kestrel, Wasp, Double Wasp, Merlin (Meteor), Sabre, possibly Hercules and Centaurus, Ghost, Goblin, Nene, Tay, Avon, Olympus, Spey.

De Havilland Australia would produce the Tiger Moth, Dragon Rapide, Flamingo, Mosquito, Hornet, Sea Hornet, Vampire, Venom, Sea Venom, Comet, Nimrod.

DAP/GAF would be initiated earlier and start building Blenheims pre war then Beauforts but switching to Beaufighters much earlier, Lancaster, Lincoln, Shackleton, Canberra (B20 and Olympus powered B-57 type), Vulcan 

1960s will be harder as there will be a reduction in both the number of aircraft types but also manufacturers.

[elmayerle]

Freightdog did make them, and may still make them; not sure if they still have any on offer but it's worth checking.

[Volkodav]

Thanks I'll check it out and if there are any I will attempt to reclaim my Master card from SWMBO.

Not what I was looking for but pretty cool anyway, AI20 radar nose and Blue Jay.  It would go well with the P.1083.

http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=981&osCsid=c7fd614595e0d830dece0dbe6d9c0ab9

[elmayerle]

Supersonic side-by-side two seater - Hunter T.7+P.1130 nose and radar (from Freightdog)+P.1083 wings+(possibly)Lightning T.4/T.5 windscreen and canopy (for a more streamlined windscreen angle - much like what the single F.3 had).

[Volkodav]

Nice, AW interceptor I assume, or a strike bus?

Maybe an early multimode Airpass?  I have been shouted down before but I am sure the Ferranti Blue Parrot was also known as the Airpass III, so maybe an Airpass IV or V?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Has anyone considered adapting the Fieri style sugar scoop air intakes to the Hunter?  Do not recall any what-if or RW concepts involving that style of intake. 

[jcf]

Has anyone considered adapting the Fieri style sugar scoop air intakes to the Hunter?  Do not recall any what-if or RW concepts involving that style of intake.

Yeah baby, don't forget the flames. 

[elmayerle]

Nice, AW interceptor I assume, or a strike bus?

Maybe an early multimode Airpass?  I have been shouted down before but I am sure the Ferranti Blue Parrot was also known as the Airpass III, so maybe an Airpass IV or V?

I as thinking of it as an AW interceptor with potential strike capability.

[elmayerle]

Has anyone considered adapting the Fieri style sugar scoop air intakes to the Hunter?  Do not recall any what-if or RW concepts involving that style of intake.

I could see that for a developed P.1083 with an Avon 300.  Slightly off subject, but I could very easily see such intakes fitted to a Draken, too.

[Volkodav]

I have tried and failed to find a P.1083 conversion, Freightdog used to make one but its no longer listed. 

Also I'm tossing up whether to buy an Italeri 1/48 Hunter F6, I know there's no conversion kits available but should be able to scratch build a radar nose and clean up the fuselage.  Anyone know anything about that kit?

The Revell 1/72 seems nice but I have never seen one in stock here or down south.

[elmayerle]

I believe the Italieri kit is a remolding of the Academy kit, so it should be fairly good.

[Volkodav]

Thanks.

[Volkodav]

Well now I have bought the 1/48 Hunter I suppose I had better read back through here for ideas.  Still very tempted to do a RN or RAN FAA FAW Sea Hunter, without conversion kits it will be hard to do a Super Sea Hunter but an improved one shouldn't be too hard.

Thinking scribed wing folds and maybe airbrakes (I intend to leave off the under fuselage kit item), re-profiled (radar) nose, must do something about the link collection fairings, missiles (Sidewinder, Firestreak, Redtop?).

Ideas anyone?

[Old Wombat]

FAR148's build is over on What If.

Here's the link: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,29145.0.html

Beauty shots are on page 7.

Seriously beautiful build but I'd love to see something similar in RAN FAA colours.

[Weaver]

I have tried and failed to find a P.1083 conversion, Freightdog used to make one but its no longer listed. 

Also I'm tossing up whether to buy an Italeri 1/48 Hunter F6, I know there's no conversion kits available but should be able to scratch build a radar nose and clean up the fuselage.  Anyone know anything about that kit?

The Revell 1/72 seems nice but I have never seen one in stock here or down south.

I think Colin at Freightdog has said that the P.1083 master needs re-doing, but he is planning to resurrect it in the future. However I can't find the thread over on What If where I thought he said that, so don't take it as gospel.

[Weaver]

Nice, AW interceptor I assume, or a strike bus?

Maybe an early multimode Airpass?  I have been shouted down before but I am sure the Ferranti Blue Parrot was also known as the Airpass III, so maybe an Airpass IV or V?

I don't know about Blue Parrot being called AIRPASS III, but it was certainly based on the same electronics as the AIRPASS.

[elmayerle]

I have tried and failed to find a P.1083 conversion, Freightdog used to make one but its no longer listed. 

Also I'm tossing up whether to buy an Italeri 1/48 Hunter F6, I know there's no conversion kits available but should be able to scratch build a radar nose and clean up the fuselage.  Anyone know anything about that kit?

The Revell 1/72 seems nice but I have never seen one in stock here or down south.

I think Colin at Freightdog has said that the P.1083 master needs re-doing, but he is planning to resurrect it in the future. However I can't find the thread over on What If where I thought he said that, so don't take it as gospel.

It's one of the threads in the Freightdog Models sub-forum and his answer was in response to a question from me about renewed availability.

[Volkodav]

Thanks for that guys, that USMC Hunter is really something.  If Freightdog rereleases the Super Hunter I will have to get the Revel 1/72 but looking at my Italeri example I am tempted to do a radar nose like the 1083.

Just found a very very interesting photo on page 166 of Hawker Hunter 1951-2007 of a private venture Sidewinder installation.  The outer pair of ADENs were removed and single pylons for sidewinders were fitted each side of the gun pack.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Ih5Vcy2PZXQC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=hawker+p.1083&source=bl&ots=BJ487n6gNY&sig=VCBqNbfLzRRYBIQz11Ve3_JJwaQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rQuSVevMLKexmwWM2aCoAQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=sidewinder&f=false

Very easy to model, could even delete the link catchers and say they were cycled into an internal catcher in the deleted gun space.  Combine this with the radar nose and wing mounted Firestreak / Redtop and youd really have something.  I wonder if it would have been possible to mount Firestreak in such a manner?