M8 Greyhound and M20 Armored Utility Car (M8 Scout Car)

[Jeffry Fontaine]

So what about an M8 or M20 with some improvements?  I recently acquired both types in 1/35th scale (Italeri) and was pleasantly surprised at the detail provided within.  Unlike the earlier Monogram M8 and M20 kits (1/32nd scale) which are nice but a bit on the clunky side.  The Italeri kits appear to capture all of the fine details but fail on the M2 Browning .05" heavy machine gun which is a problem in almost every Italeri kit I have encountered so far. 

Of course you could build the kit straight out of the box and just add the markings of your own choosing but I would like to take it to another level by adding an M151 Remote Weapons Station from AFV Club (Stryker accessory set) or maybe sacrifice one of the 25mm Bushmaster remote weapons stations that was offered in the first issue of the Tamiya HMMWV kit.  I like either one and the Bushmaster RWS will certainly take up a lot more space in the vehicle.  With what I have in mind the fighting compartment would need to be fitted with a roof and a couple of access hatches added.  Of course this all depends on which version you are using and keep in mind the M20 does have a raised superstructure/bulkhead surrounding the fighting compartment while the M8 does not so additional height might be required to get clearance for your remote weapons station. 

Here are a couple of images of the M8 and M20 to ponder:

M8 Greyhound on display somewhere in Connecticut (2008) 

(Larger image available for viewing by clicking on this image. Image source: Wikipedia/Minnesota Historical Society)


M20 Armored Utility Vehicle on display at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland

(Larger image available for viewing by clicking on this image. Image source: Wikipedia/Mark Pellegrini)


Wikipedia M8 Greyhound/M20 Scout Car

[GTX_Admin]

At first glance, that second picture almost looks to have a ATGW tube mounted.

Regards,

Greg

[GTX_Admin]

What about fitting something similar to the T34 Calliope rockets to the M8?



Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

At first glance, that second picture almost looks to have a ATGW tube mounted.

It is a rather ragged looking replica of a water-cooled M1919 Browning .30 machine gun.  Not sure if that weapon ever graced a real M20 in real life but museums are known for making up things on the fly with the attitude that accuracy can be ignored. 

[GTX_Admin]

At first glance, that second picture almost looks to have a ATGW tube mounted.

It is a rather ragged looking replica of a water-cooled M1919 Browning .30 machine gun.  Not sure if that weapon ever graced a real M20 in real life but museums are known for making up things on the fly with the attitude that accuracy can be ignored.

Yeah, I realised that after looking closely...

[Maverick]

I was with Greg at first glance, but then the 'details' came out.

How about a quad .50 turret?  ISTR seeing one somewhere as a photo.  Failing that, a pair of .50s from the Tamiya Pibber might make an interesting deviation.

Regards,

John

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I was with Greg at first glance, but then the 'details' came out.

How about a quad .50 turret?  ISTR seeing one somewhere as a photo.  Failing that, a pair of .50s from the Tamiya Pibber might make an interesting deviation.

There is an image of an air defense vehicle with a four-gun arrangement in an armored turret on the Wikipedia M8 Greyhound/M20 Scout Car page.  While it may actually be a Maxon M45 Machine Gun Mount underneath the armored shell it is difficult to tell. 

The Mk36 mount is the weapons mount that is found at the bow of the 31.0' PBR Mk1 and Mk2 and above the pilot house on the 50.0' PCF Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3.  The Mk36 mount with the twin Browning machine guns would be an ideal match-up with this vehicle.  Reminds me of the reconnaissance vehicle based on the M5 Stuart that was armed with the Mk17 Scarf Ring Mount and a pair of Browning .50s.   

[ChernayaAkula]

EDIT: Jeffry was faster!

How about a quad .50 turret?  ISTR seeing one somewhere as a photo.

Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.

Here's a Colombian one:

What about fitting something similar to the T34 Calliope rockets to the M8?

Greg, was there any mention of where that pic was taken? The scenery looks a lot like many of the villages here in northern Hesse.

[Frank3k]

Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.

Damm! There goes a whiff!

Jeff - I think a Bushmaster would easily fit in place of the 37mm M6; that was a pretty big gun. The turret (and the rest of the vehicle) could use some extra armor but if an M8 can take a quad .50, it could probably handle a couple of Bushmasters.

A smaller turret with an M151 would look good, too. Maybe with a minigun or a Mk 19.

[ChernayaAkula]

Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.

Damm! There goes a whiff!
<...>

  Sorry!

How about this, then:
Pretty interesting in and of itself, how about this turret fitted to an M8?


DN-V Búfalo
Mexican-built DN-5 Toro (looking a lot like an LAV-150) with the 75mm turret of an M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage. Apparently very much the only self-propelled artillery in the Mexican Army.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Yup! Some countries in South America used (use???) the Maxson M45 Quadmount mount (as on the M16 MGMC) on M8 Greyhounds. Looks rather wild.

Damm! There goes a whiff!
<...>

  Sorry!

How about this, then:
Pretty interesting in and of itself, how about this turret fitted to an M8?


DN-V Búfalo
Mexican-built DN-5 Toro (looking a lot like an LAV-150) with the 75mm turret of an M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage. Apparently very much the only self-propelled artillery in the Mexican Army.

Hi Frank,

Hope your "care package" has arrived by now. 

I did consider stuffing the Bushmaster remote weapons station inside of the M8 turret but I liked the additional height provided by the raised bulkhead around the passenger compartment on the M20.  It would give the guys inside under cover some much needed headroom.   Fitting a flat sheet of plastic over the opening would proved the roof or maybe go one further and cut the roof section from the Tamiya Bushmaster HMMWV kit and use that as the roof on the M20.  That way you have all of the turret features without any extra effort. 

Hi Moritz,

That M8 HMC turret on the V-150/XM706 looks darn good.  I just picked up an Italeri LVT(A)4 (75mm howitzer turret) with the idea of attempting to mate that turret to one of the M8 kits. 

[finsrin]

Those South America folks did a perfect kit bash in 1/1 scale on that M8.
Some where (back of closet?) I have M8 with Sherman turret 76mm kit bash done in 1972-73.

[Gingie]

BGen Rockingham's Greyhound converted to a tactical CP in the Korean war. Markings are not accurate... which partially explains why its not finished, I keep hoping to scrape off the wrong #'s and apply some correct ones before flat coating & weathering:

[Weaver]

Wonder what a Saladin or Scorpion turret would look like on one? Might need a spacer ring to get adequate gun depression over the driver's "hood" on the Scorpion.

[Weaver]

Fetching blue civvie one:





It could just be somebody's innovative family saloon, but it also occurred to me that it could be a forgotten movie prop. Image from here, but no answers unfortunately:

http://www.thestreetpeep.com/2010/08/6x6.html

Looks like a cool website BTW.

[Gingie]

I'm sure I saw a photo of a police dept M8, maybe without a turret? Possibly LAPD SWAT?

[GTX_Admin]

I wonder...half track variant?

[ChernayaAkula]

Brilliant idea!  :)

No clue whether the half-track bits (from an M2 half-track) and the M8 are to scale, though.

[Logan Hartke]

Why have I never seen a concept like this before?  This is awesome.

Cheers,

Logan

[Frank3k]

Brilliant idea!  :)

No clue whether the half-track bits (from an M2 half-track) and the M8 are to scale, though.

Close. The M2 and M8 share the same front tire diameter, so I scaled, cut and pasted. I cut out some space between the drive and return roller and voila:



I don't think the small contact area improves traction or reduces ground pressure compared to the original, so maybe that (plus the extra complexity) is why it was never tried.  Looks great, though.

[father ennis]

I know there are several big U.S. cities that have and use M8/M20's as SWAT unites. I remember seeing an M20 with an armored roof ,with roof hatch being used. It was a dark blue with SWAT in large white letters on both sides of the body. This was in LA I think and a black.one in Chicago with police on the sides.  Never even heard of a modeler even thinking about making one. I've been toying with doing something like this with my resin Mowag four wheeler but that is as far as it goes.

[GTX_Admin]

I don't think the small contact area improves traction or reduces ground pressure compared to the original, so maybe that (plus the extra complexity) is why it was never tried.

Bah!!! Technicalities!

Great images guys.

[Logan Hartke]

I don't think the small contact area improves traction or reduces ground pressure compared to the original, so maybe that (plus the extra complexity) is why it was never tried.  Looks great, though.

It wouldn't be too hard to make, but it would be additional maintenance.  I've heard that the cross-country ride of the M8 Greyhound family was superior to that of the US halftracks, so I doubt that the configuration would have improved mobility, either.

That having been said, I have a special place in my heart for halftracks, so I think this is both practical and fantastic!

Cheers,

Logan

[Frank3k]

If we stretch the rear by about 2 feet, the original track will have room. Move the turret ring back by the same amount and put in a bigger gun. Now we have an excuse for the halftrack!

[dy031101]

I suppose there is no stopping anyone from using a new-construction turret with one of those compact 90mm guns to re-arm the Greyhound?