Author Topic: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration  (Read 16181 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« on: December 28, 2011, 02:45:45 PM »
Hi folks,

How about some whiffs for aircraft that are essentially whiffs themselves (i.e. these never made it to operational service anyway, so anything in operational service would be a whiff here)?  I'm thinking especially of Horten Ho-IX (or Gotha Go 229 or Ho 229 - call it what you will), though other Horten flying wings are welcome too.

To start here are some ideas, I'm playing with:

  • A captured version test flown by the Soviets;
  • An Argentine version - Reimar Horten emigrated to Argentina after all;
  • A two seat (Ho IXb) version dedicated to stealthy night attack, possibly using a developed IR sight and guided bombs (say Fritz-X's or developments thereof) - kind of like a WWII equivalent to the F-117 or B-2;
  • A Japanese version; and/or
  • A carrier based version.

What other ideas do you have - what modifications might you make?  I for one have always disliked the nose landing gear which looks far too large and out of scale.




Regards,

Greg
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2011, 02:47:19 PM »
Let's see what a smaller nose wheel looks like:



What do you think?  I decided to keep the nose high attitude to help with take off and to protect the engines from FOD.

Regards,

Greg
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2011, 02:48:13 PM »
A subtle whiff - can you spot the change:



Regards,

Greg
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2011, 02:49:02 PM »
Something I found online:



Regards,

Greg
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Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 05:15:41 AM »
A subtle whiff - can you spot the change:



Regards,

Greg


 Stumbled on this just a bit ago-I'm going to guess thats the exhaust for a rocket engine  above the tail spike. Talk about your bats out of Hell...

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 07:42:32 AM »
Let's see what a smaller nose wheel looks like:



What do you think?  I decided to keep the nose high attitude to help with take off and to protect the engines from FOD.

Regards,

Greg


I agree the nose wheel assembly is dis-proportionate.

Can you lower the nose a touch more? Recall the allied jets were level.
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Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 07:45:52 AM »
Hi folks,

How about some whiffs for aircraft that are essentially whiffs themselves (i.e. these never made it to operational service anyway, so anything in operational service would be a whiff here)?  I'm thinking especially of Horten Ho-IX (or Gotha Go 229 or Ho 229 - call it what you will), though other Horten flying wings are welcome too.

To start here are some ideas, I'm playing with:

  • A captured version test flown by the Soviets;
  • An Argentine version - Reimar Horten emigrated to Argentina after all;
  • A two seat (Ho IXb) version dedicated to stealthy night attack, possibly using a developed IR sight and guided bombs (say Fritz-X's or developments thereof) - kind of like a WWII equivalent to the F-117 or B-2;
  • A Japanese version; and/or
  • A carrier based version.

What other ideas do you have - what modifications might you make?  I for one have always disliked the nose landing gear which looks far too large and out of scale.

Regards,

Greg

I'm good for a Japanese version, I have two in the stash.

Mods? Lots of things under the wings.  ;D
Work in progress ::

I am giving up listing them. They all end up on the shelf of procrastination anyways.

User and abuser of Bothans...

Offline finsrin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 08:42:05 AM »
Since I build/bash for 1/72 result.  Use 1/48 kit.  Add modest amount of front-rear fuselage for bomb bay size and at least a tail gun.
Shades of Arado 555 treatment only different.
Predecessor to Arado 555 ?
1/72 HE-111 nose graft on OK?  Dornier 217?
Bill
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 09:04:16 AM by finsrin »

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 03:07:01 AM »
The Horten Bros made a large cargo plane in Argentina:

http://www.aviastar.org/air/argentina/fma_iae-38.php

It was underpowered, so it never went into production.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 11:32:59 AM »
Use a 1/48 Ho-9 wing to scaleorama into a 1/72 tactical bomber, somewhere in between their fighters and the Ho.XVIII strategic bomber?

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 02:42:26 PM »
I wanna put winglets on the Go-229.   That or a stretched swallowtail.   
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline taiidantomcat

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 04:18:34 AM »
"They know you can do anything, So the question is, what don't you do?"

-David Fincher

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 10:44:52 AM »
Photo reconnaissance  USMC Korea, overall Gloss Sea Blue.   Land based but add a tail hook just because it's protocol.   

Elongated wing with somewhat reduced sweep, almost cartoonishly enlarged intakes and engine pods for an alternate turbojet.   Serves in the same unit as the WB-57 to this very day.   
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 10:47:06 AM by Daryl J. »
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline RussC

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 12:08:47 AM »
Maybe one in Russian Stars, or a PRU(RAF) version sneaking through East Germany into Poland 1951 - ish. Maybe extended wings (ooops, Kit' is on the "other forum" )  :D

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 05:28:29 AM »
By law, all soviet jets from the 1940s through the 1960s (and even a few current ones) must have wing fences! at 1/3 or 2/3 of the wing span or both. They must be there, or it's not a soviet aircraft. Look at those nice clean wings on the Ho229! They're just screaming for some fences! Just don't cover the drag panels that act as a rudder.

Offline apophenia

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 05:55:44 AM »
By law, all soviet jets from the 1940s through the 1960s (and even a few current ones) must have wing fences! ...
   ;D
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2012, 03:16:29 PM »
Any designer who tried to not include them was sent to a gulag where they really learnt what fences were.. O0
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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2013, 02:28:58 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2013, 04:07:35 AM »
I saw a show on the Discovery Channel last year where a bunch of guys built a 1:1 replica so they could test it against radar. They reckoned it was a ""stealth"" fighter from way back.  I don't think the Germans even knew anything about the stealth properties in the design anymore than Jack Northrop did with his wings (from what I've read that is --- )

They could have shown everything in about 15 minutes but the producers just had to dramatize it and drag the show on for two hours ----

Offline jcf

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2013, 04:49:57 AM »
http://www.hortenwings.com


What a load of unmitigated BS. Ancestor of the F-117? WTF?

Any minor stealth features were simply an unintended result of shape and materials, and
Reimar Horten used steel-tube and wood construction because those were the materials
which he was most experienced. Not because he was making an attempt at 'stealth'.

Why can't people just appreciate these things for what they really were, and acknowledge
the actual accomplishments of the people behind them, rather than attaching this fantasy
crap? The real story is far more interesting than this kind of invented BS.

Sure use what really happened as a starting point for whiffing or whatever, but, please
differentiate between reality and fantasy.
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Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
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Offline Logan Hartke

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2013, 05:09:09 AM »
Jon, why can't you just get with the program and admit that all post-1939 aviation development was a direct result of German WWII designs? 

Cheers,

Logan

Offline jcf

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2013, 09:19:27 AM »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2013, 11:54:41 AM »
The National Air and Space Museum has four blog entries with detailed pictures on the pre-restoration work being done on the Horten Ho IX. The posts have some great, recent pictures of the center section and wings (and one post war pic with the wings on!) as well as a "map" showing the conditions of the metal and plywood. Considering that it's almost 70 years old and made mostly from "home made" plywood, it's in great shape.

Offline jcf

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2013, 12:17:15 PM »
"Home made" plywood?
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2013, 01:14:20 PM »
"Home made" plywood?

As in "Hans, take these thin sheets of wood, that home made glue and glue the sheets together like we showed you... Or you're going back to the Ost"

Offline jcf

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2013, 12:05:59 AM »
Not unusual, laminating up thicker assemblies from 3, 5 or 7 ply thick 'plywood' sheet
material was not an uncommon technique in the period, or up to today for that matter.
Especially when dealing with curved surfaces. Looking at the photos on the blog
they are showing a laminated assembly of eleven layers of 5-ply, with the 5-ply made
of very thin veneers, and that 5-ply base material would be press-made. British
standard veneer thicknesses in the WWII period ranged from .01" - .05" in thickness,
so you could have one type of 5-ply that was .05" thick and another that was .25" thick.
'Twould depend on what was required. Note also that these plywoods were strictly veneer
sandwiches, not the mix of veneers and thicker cut filler material found in what most
people think of as plywood.

Anyhow most specialty plywood was then and is still today 'hand-made' in the sense that
the veneers are graded, picked, and laid in the sandwich by hand before the whole layer
cake is put in the press. More automated processes are used for standard costruction grade
stuff, however there is still a lot of hand work involved.

All this talk of plywood makes me think of a pet peeve ...   :icon_fsm:
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2013, 12:17:59 AM »
*chuckle* I've seen a filmstrip of the making of the plywood layups used for the Mosquito fuselage used as a teaching aid for a class on composite materials.  Composites = high-tech plywood.

Offline Diavel

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2013, 01:42:00 AM »
The PM model Horten I have is going to be a flying sub. It will be tasked with intercepting UFO's for SHADO, when they decide to pull a fast one and dive into the sea.Armament will be rail guns, two of ,2 missiles and 2 torpedoes. The jet engines will close themselves up during a swim and a water jet system will power it under water.Auxiliary rockets may be fitted to get the aircraft up and out of the water vertically, to an altitude where the jet engines are up to operational power. An Arado E 555, could also get this modification too, but be based at sea.
Chris 
Just call me the thread killer.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2013, 02:19:06 AM »
Not unusual, laminating up thicker assemblies from 3, 5 or 7 ply thick 'plywood' sheet
material was not an uncommon technique in the period, or up to today for that matter.

I though plywood was plywood and all made by machine presses. I guess they didn't have a handy LuftwaffeDepot nearby?

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2013, 11:47:07 PM »
The Dragon kit is about the right size for painting up as a traditional boomerang.   :icon_music:
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline jcf

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 12:07:22 AM »
The Dragon 1/48th two-seater is being turned into a Batplane with KM-1 ejection seats
and flat-panel displays.
Da Bat don't do lawn chairs and steam gauges.  ;D

Paint scheme is still TBD.
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
Sense doesn’t come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated shit
actually is than they ever are about
whatever’s supposed to be behind the
conspiracy.”
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2013, 12:38:02 AM »
  ;D
 :)
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline RussC

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2013, 03:50:35 PM »
The National Air and Space Museum has four blog entries with detailed pictures on the pre-restoration work being done on the Horten Ho IX. The posts have some great, recent pictures of the center section and wings (and one post war pic with the wings on!) as well as a "map" showing the conditions of the metal and plywood. Considering that it's almost 70 years old and made mostly from "home made" plywood, it's in great shape.


Thanks for finding these. Been a 229 fan for a long time. Good to see the last original getting treatment and maybe heading for display at last.

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2013, 04:45:06 AM »
Speaking of anachronisms, too bad there is not a decent 1/48 scale Triceratops or Ankylosaur.   They could be used as harnassed tugs for a bright wood  and NMF version of the 229.  ;D
 
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline raafif

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2013, 04:55:59 AM »
Tamiya does some good 35th dinosaurs.  Here's a few in Luftwaffe schemes .....

Offline apophenia

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2013, 09:59:56 AM »
Tamiya does some good 35th dinosaurs.  Here's a few in Luftwaffe schemes .....

Excellent concept raafif ... aber das ist nicht ein Dinosaurier, ist es ein pterosaurier!  ;D
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz

Offline Daryl J.

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2013, 10:14:00 AM »
Fliegersaurs!   ;)
kwyxdxLg5T

Offline Story

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2016, 10:30:53 AM »
Might as well share the inspiration that brought me here - http://danielsimon.com/hydra-flying-wing/

Hail Hydra.


Offline finsrin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2016, 10:40:32 AM »
Welcome to BTS.
Whoa,,, hey is the Hydra Flying Wing cool or what?   8)

Offline Modelnut53

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2016, 12:06:19 PM »
This is the 1:72 scale Revell kit.
I gave it a full cockpit bath and replaced the nose gear with something I felt was more appropriate for a production machine.
I kept the same angle on the body when sitting on the ground because I believe this was to facilitate better take off parameters (other jets had tales).
I now have the 1:32 scale SWS kit to build and planning on building it to a similar configuration.

Offline ysi_maniac

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2022, 03:57:35 PM »
Ho-229 with proper fuselage (bomber)


Offline finsrin

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Re: Horten Flying Wings ideas and inspiration
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2022, 06:36:03 PM »
Nice design, looks Luft 46 right  :smiley: