Author Topic: US Army fixed wing aviation (Read 41084 times)

Geoff · « **on:** July 23, 2012, 06:53:50 PM »

If this has already been done I appologise.

I have always thought the USAr should have kept it's fixed wing units for the CAS role. I understand (I think) the politics that caused the change. But what if?

Early jets tested were the Fiat G-91 and F-5A.
I assumed the Shoski Tiger F-5C would be the main a/c used with the small number of Fiats sent to ArNG units in Alaska.

The A-4C was also modified for the army and test flown. I could see units in Vietnam use standard A-4's the same as the USN/MC. Not sure about an army version though. But an A-4E with Jaguar u/c would be an easy model conversion.

I like the idea of F-4's probably "D"s in army service, and taking part in the air defence role of the CONUS as well??

The A-7 and A-10 are obvious replacements. But what about the Jaguar, or even the Tornado GR series which the USAF/E were considering at one point for commonality with the European air forces?

Anyway any opinions please?

Maverick · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:43:12 PM »

Geoff, for my mind CAS type platforms seem a logical choice, but I think the use of the F-4 or Tornado is a bit of a stretch. I'd think sticking with shorter ranged stuff to get down into the weeds would be the better options.

Regards,

John

AGRA · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:45:08 PM »

Quote from: Geoff on July 23, 2012, 06:53:50 PM

If this has already been done I appologise.

I have always thought the USAr should have kept it's fixed wing units for the CAS role. I understand (I think) the politics that caused the change. But what if?

Early jets tested were the Fiat G-91 and F-5A.
I assumed the Shoski Tiger F-5C would be the main a/c used with the small number of Fiats sent to ArNG units in Alaska.

The A-4C was also modified for the army and test flown. I could see units in Vietnam use standard A-4's the same as the USN/MC. Not sure about an army version though. But an A-4E with Jaguar u/c would be an easy model conversion.

I like the idea of F-4's probably "D"s in army service, and taking part in the air defence role of the CONUS as well??

The A-7 and A-10 are obvious replacements. But what about the Jaguar, or even the Tornado GR series which the USAF/E were considering at one point for commonality with the European air forces?

Anyway any opinions please?

An interesting question. Also along with CAS aircraft would be the US Army’s fixed wing transport aircraft they were force to hand over to USAF. The Caribou and its replacements would remain US Army aircraft. Be very cool to see Air Cavalry Regiments flying fixed wing attack aircraft.

I doubt the US Army would get in the business of interdiction aircraft like the A-7, Jaguar and Tornado. These airplanes have advanced navigation systems and attack radars to find enemy targets deep inside their territory. But the A-4 and evolved Army versions is a very likely CAS aircraft.

The A/X (aka A-10) would be an Army program. They would probably stay with the initial specification (6,000 lbs ordnance) and Northrop had a really nice looking pusher prop with the Avenger gun. Attack helicopters would still go ahead for transport helo escort and to fire the TOW missile and the Cheyenne would probably get production funding without USAF opposition.

In the late 70s, early 80s it all about killing tanks with Tank Breaker and Assault Breaker programs. The A-4 replacement would probably be customised to deliver anti-tank missiles with the nature of the missile being key. Survivability concerns about the Northrop turboprop against guided missiles would probably require something fast and ultra-manoeuvrable down low. Hellfire would require two seats for the gunner. Maybe an attack version of the F-20? Or maybe something VTOL?

tsrjoe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:45:47 PM »

a really neat idea for a build theme methinks, John Lacey 'maverick' created a couple of really plausible 'nam' period artworks which certainly look plausible and would certainly cause some double takes on a model table, i recall his Skyraider, A.4 Skyhawk and AV.8A Harrier. (go on John post some back up on here)

Just musing, circa 1970's there were a few of the Army's helicopters painted in MERDC. scheme, definately would look different on the Bronco, Harrier or A.10, especially in one of the more unusual theatre variants, eg. winter

my own thinking would be the Corsair and Tornado might be a bit toestepping with the USAF. altho i could envisage the CAS. role being Army tasked

a brill idea, cheers, Joe

Maverick · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2012, 09:21:07 PM »

Various US Army fixed-wing assets as requested:

And for giggles:

Regards.

John

tsrjoe · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2012, 10:49:46 PM »

very cool, should provide for some modelling inspiration methinks, i hadnt sen the MERDC camou Skyhawk artworks before, very cool, especially the winter example

many thanks for sharing John, cheers, Joe

Geoff · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:11:42 PM »

Thanks for the artwork John. I had forgotten the MERDC versions and I do like the winter one

. I have an A-10 waiting to go on the blocks.
I think you are right about the Tornado, but I could see the Army using a version of the Corsair.
My idea of the Phantom was ...well the USN and USAF use it, and so do the Marines. So I was thinking Vietnam era, with a bit of "mission creep" and the USMC using the Toom for CAS. Throw in a soupson of interservice rivalry and ego and = .... Well why not have a mach 2 bomber for CAS with the army? lol

tsrjoe · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:21:50 PM »

sweet, i only just noticed the canopy on the Stuka, sorry Condor

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:23:58 PM »

I was always partial to the Olive Drab over Grey scheme myself.

Geoff · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:50:25 PM »

Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on July 23, 2012, 11:23:58 PM

I was always partial to the Olive Drab over Grey scheme myself.

I liked the gloss overall green myself. Would not work on a Hog though except as a commemorative scheme.

Weaver · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2012, 12:14:38 AM »

The Harrier would be highly likely, given the RW US Army interest in it and it's ability to operate "in the field" somewhat like a helicopter. A dedicated Army version might have a bigger, thicker wing, roughly equivalent to an earlier, all-metal AV-8B wing. It would be slower, but the wing would contain the fuel that normally resides in the "welded on" drop tanks you always see on Harriers, thus freeing up more pylonage for bombs and rockets.

A big, fat wing (A7?) might also make a suitable mod for the Jaguar, for similar reasons. The Jag doesn't have to have the RAF's trick nav/attack system: the French ones had much simpler avionics. I wouldn't discount all the avionics though: LRMTS is highly relevent to the CAS mission, enabling the aircraft to work closely with a laser-equipped FAC on the ground.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:42:26 AM »

G.91:

A-4 (note different landing gear):

F-5:

Doom! · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:45:38 AM »

Here's one I did a while back.

Litvyak · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:51:13 AM »

Build that G91 and watch JMNs start whining about it being not real...

tsrjoe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2012, 02:57:37 AM »

Original 'Topping' display model of a US. Army Grumman A.6 Intruder ...

tsrjoe · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2012, 03:01:41 AM »

in Brooklands Museum store theres an original display model of a HS. Kestrel again in overall olive with US. Army titling, i should have some snaps of it in the folders

i came across this one id saved previously, an artwork by 'bagera' and Joe Rella inspired by Johns profile posted above ...

tsrjoe · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2012, 03:03:29 AM »

something different, a captured Yak 18 in US. Army markings ...

Geoff · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2012, 04:06:31 AM »

Thanks for the pics.

Was the A-6 a proposal or pure Wif?

tsrjoe · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2012, 04:27:06 AM »

a genuine proposal, it came about at the time when the Army were relinquishing their fixed wing assets tho unfortunately

re CAS. Phantom, just so happens iv come across such a thing in my files ...

cheers, Joe

Geoff · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2012, 04:47:57 AM »

Ahh virtually an "E" externally then. Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Big Gimper · « **Reply #20 on:** July 24, 2012, 05:16:37 AM »

Quote from: GTX_Admin on July 24, 2012, 02:42:26 AM

G.91:

A-4 (note different landing gear):

I like the dual main wheels. Just need to figure our how to construct a larger housing for them.

Jeffry Fontaine · « **Reply #21 on:** July 24, 2012, 08:30:57 AM »

Quote from: The Big Gimper on July 24, 2012, 05:16:37 AM

Quote from: GTX_Admin on July 24, 2012, 02:42:26 AM
A-4 (note different landing gear):

I like the dual main wheels. Just need to figure our how to construct a larger housing for them.

You could try for something like that used on the Skyraider with a larger single wheel that rotated to fold flat inside the wing. This arrangement would give you the additional benefit of more space next to the inboard wing pylon so you can hang a larger fuel tank or an MER/MBR without conflict.

AGRA · « **Reply #22 on:** July 24, 2012, 09:00:01 AM »

Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on July 24, 2012, 08:30:57 AM

You could try for something like that used on the Skyraider with a larger single wheel that rotated to fold flat inside the wing. This arrangement would give you the additional benefit of more space next to the inboard wing pylon so you can hang a larger fuel tank or an MER/MBR without conflict.

That's how the original Skyhawk main wheel worked. This twin wheel arrangement is to decrease the ground pressure so you can fly from rough fields and drag be dammed.

GTX_Admin · « **Reply #23 on:** July 24, 2012, 03:02:10 PM »

Hmmm...I wonder how a SNCASE S.E.5000 Baroudeur would look in this scheme/role?

ed s · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2012, 09:51:04 AM »

I've always thought that if the US Army did keep fixed wing CAS a/c, the PA-48 Enforcer and the Rutan Ares would look good in Army colors.

Ed


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Author Topic: US Army fixed wing aviation (Read 41084 times)