Grumman A-6 Intruder/EA-6 Prowler Ideas and Inspiration

[Old Wombat]

Merci, mon ami!

:)

Guy

[Daryl J.]

Israeli Prowler.

[elmayerle]

How about a more capable KA-6 based on a two-seat version of an EA-6B airframe?

[Diamondback]

Already suggested (by you IIRC), but bears repeating as a GREAT idea--probably be a much more efficient way to keep F-35s topped up than buddy-stored Stupidhornets.

Still kinda stalled on my build--finding drawings of the VEP mod is impossible, and this is about the only photo I've been able to find.

[Daryl J.]

As rugged and tough as this aircraft was, it also tempts to do a bomber for the US Army.   Just what would need changed in Army doctrines I have no idea but that's beside the point. 

[Diamondback]

Doctrine, unsure... structure, probably more cockpit and engine armor. And making room for an internal gun or two... maybe a GEPOD on the centerline (or perhaps an F-35B/C style conformal gun-pod but redesigned with a load pass-through to also hang stores off it?) and mod the engine covers to add another underfuselage pylon on each side, positioned to clear C/L and inboard wing stores, or maybe something like Mudhen stubs.

So, let's see... if we're unfettered by Bring Back Weight on a carrier...
-Wingtip (2 stations, maybe 4 if a split w/ECM like was proposed for one of the Euro canard-deltas): IR AAM/AMRAAM weight-class--maybe rail-mount BOLs or ALE-50 towed decoys too?
-Stn 1/9 - ~1K-1500lb. Shoulder-mount Sidewinders/AMRAAM with rail-mount countermeasures or decoys and light payload? (Limited by pitch-moment; I'd say either a BRU-61 with for SDB's or a VER/CVER modified for SDB compatibility.)
-Stn 2/8 - Shoulder-mount Sidewinders/AMRAAM with rail-mount countermeasures or decoys and normal payload? (Aero-7A rack, 3600# limit)
-Stn 3/7 - Shoulder-mount Sidewinders/AMRAAM with rail-mount countermeasures or decoys and normal payload? (Aero-7A rack, 3600# limit)
-Stn 4/6 (under-engine or stubs): (
Stn 5 (centerline): broad range of MERs, drop tanks and gun-pods. (Aero-7B rack, 3700# limit)

[elmayerle]

Jaktviggen-style centerline gun bod that wraps around the stores pylon?

[Volkodav]

Brimstone becomes a joint RAF US Army program with dozens hung off the A-6F/G.  Actually lots of RAF like ground attack stores, unguided rocket pods (later APKWS), cluster bombs, munition dispensers; think the sort of stuff you would see on a Harrier or Jaguar.  Rec pods, resupply pods for precision dropping of emergency supplies and equipment to ground forces that helicopters can't reach.

This isn't a USAF token effort or a USMC aircraft that needs to operate from a carrier, this is a US Army interdiction and CAS attack aircraft designed to bring death and destruction to those unfortunate enough to be fighting the US Army.

[Diamondback]

Though retaining a carrier-ops capability Just In Case would be a nice bonus. I'm thinking keep the beefed-up naval gear, structure and tailhook... partially to save the cost of the de-navalizing redesign. LOL Jagdviggen-style gun might work... are we thinking an Aden or 25mm, or do we do a Pave Claw going for a "poor man's Avenger"?

As for Hellfire/Brimstone (since IIRC they use a common rail and basic body): maybe two four-packs per station, hung on non-canted Vertical Engagement Racks like a modified BRU-55? That'd be 48 on six wing stations, plus if we add Mudhen-style stubs or long pylons under the engines whatever could fit there. (Though those would probably be limited to dual-rails by ground-clearance in Rotate, maybe three pairs in a row each side on a long pylon, plus a single each on any stubs.) Or could an adapter beam like the HSAB's on BUFFs extend that to two paired-quads per wing station? That'd be like a one-pass brigade-killer... O.O Let's see, a bone-stock Navy model packs 18K# combined on five stations, so that makes a 3600# limit on those averaged, maybe 1800# on the added outboards... if we up-engine we can probably get away with a little more.

J52-P-409 (highest power J52, for EA-6B ADVCAP): 12k#, 118"OAL, 38" dia, 2318# dry weight. We're looking for similar size, with more power on same weight or less weight and at least equal power--either way, we're looking for a noticeable boost in power-to-weight ratio.

Re my prior... or was it Ching-Kuo that had the twin tip-rails?

Oh, BTW, all this on based on the VEP Prowler airframe for its aerodynamic improvements?

And another random thought... assuming a beefed-up structure, keep the wingtip speedbrakes but bring back the fuse-mounted ones with differential operation to enhance maneuverability or assist with thrust vectoring? (Thinking, pop the brake on only one side and you might get a quick 180... you'd need a system to automatically pop the other through a quick extend/retract cycle to prevent spins though.)

[finsrin]

I think A-6 wings from 1/32 to 1/144 will work kitbashed onto an appropriate 1/72 fuselage.
Recently got a 1/48 for its wings and tail surfaces to one day be part of a 1/72 build.
Have yet to figure out what that build might be.

[Diamondback]

Here's some weight data to analyze, even though it IS from a Stupidhornet Brainwashee... http://yarchive.net/mil/fa18_vs_a6.html

Idea: 1/32 wing on 1/48 A-6 fuse , or 1/48 wing on 1/72 fuse for a 150% wing up-scale?

[finsrin]

Idea: 1/32 wing on 1/48 A-6 fuse , or 1/48 wing on 1/72 fuse for a 150% wing up-scale?

Ideal for when A-6 makes switch from low altitude penetration to high altitude.

[GTX_Admin]

RN FAA Intruders/Prowlers instead of cancelled Buccaneer...later going to the RAF.

[Cliffy B]

RN FAA Intruders/Prowlers instead of cancelled Buccaneer...later going to the RAF.

FAA you say? 
More old profiles:


Did some Aeronavale as well:

[Diamondback]

Also, it's worth noting the Prowler airframe grosses out a ton and a half heavier than the Intruder, so it might be a better choice as a bed for a CAS aircraft.

Evan, how much beef-up in the fuse would it take to handle the composite wing's added load, for a WAG? Enough to be a net weight gain, a wash or might there still be some weight reduction? Every pound of airframe we can take off without compromising structural strength and safety-margin is another pound of fuel and weps we can pump in or hang on...

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Nice profiles Mike. 

Is it too late to change the missile armament to the Matra AS-37 MARTEL Armat? 

[GTX_Admin]

Also, it's worth noting the Prowler airframe grosses out a ton and a half heavier than the Intruder, so it might be a better choice as a bed for a CAS aircraft.

How do you figure that?

[Diamondback]

I'm looking at the raw Maximum Takeoff Weights. Excuse me, my math's a little off... but the Prowler does still have a heavier MTOW limit. (Slight miscalc, Intruder max cat weight is 58K#.)

Land-based MTOW's  for "common denominator":
A-6E: 60,626#
EA-6B: 61,500#

Unless the Prowler adds 900# of airframe... gimme a sec to check empty weights.
-E Intruder: 25,630#
Prowler: 31,160#

Okay, maybe not... but we definitely want the Prowler's more powerful engines at least. By upgrading to at least a J52-P-408, we should be able to safely add another 900# of fuselage fuel at least, right? (Full weps load means having to launch with either wing internal tanks empty--they're all-or-nothing--or reduced fuselage-tank fuel load.)

[GTX_Admin]

What I meant was:  why would the heavier be better for CAS?

[Diamondback]

Turns out I did have it backward... the Intruder DOES have more of its MTOW proportionally in payload--didn't realize the Prowler added as much empty weight as it did.

[Daryl J.]

And I'm Mr. Ignorant: what is a CAS aircraft?  And why is it good if they are heavy?

[GTX_Admin]

CAS = Close Air Support.  I don't believe being heavier has any benefit.  If anything, it may be worse.

[Diamondback]

Benefit of a heavier MTOW on a same or negligibly higher empty weight is, you can bring more payload to the party. Or bring more fuel to hang out waiting for Targets of Opportunity to come out of hiding...

It doesn't MATTER how fast or maneuverable you are, if you can't throw knockout punches at your targets and KEEP throwing them when you need to... Close Air Support is all about giving as many targets as needed a string of haymakers and hooks to the jaw, with plenty of loiter time on-station.

[Daryl J.]

Some who are near and dear to the Intruder are suggesting the Hobbyboss A-6A is more of an A-6E.   It might be reasonable, then, to take the pod off the Revellogram EA-6A tail, transpose it to the H-B kit, and come up with some 'EA-6E' version. 

[Diamondback]

Actually, a large portion of the E's were rebuilt A's...