Author Topic: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 77913 times)

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2015, 03:18:57 AM »
Stop giving me ideas...
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Offline Old Wombat

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2015, 07:34:00 AM »
Stop giving me ideas...

???

I thought that that was what this forum was for! :-\
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Offline Kerick

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2015, 09:52:35 AM »
How about an X-wing Starfighter, one set of standard wings set to 15deg anhedral and another set at 15deg dihedral. the lower wing set with under wing stores and the upper set with over wing stores (think Jaguar and Lightning).

The other thought is a Lightning style wing either mid mounted as per the Starfighters original mounting point, or high mounted as on the lancer.

Another option is an F/A-18 wing, either "Classic" or "Rhino" maybe scaleorama for a better fit, mounted as per the original Starfighter wing.



Sounds like something retro like the early versions of the Viper from BSG. Where to put an R2 unit?


Behind the cockpit in the EE bay would be the obvious location.




Then move the cockpit back to just in front of the wings. Then attach tank parts!

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: December 06, 2015, 07:23:57 AM »
Interesting image:

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: December 06, 2015, 07:27:19 AM »
F-104 with Bill's (aka Finsrin) ultimate car:

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2015, 03:55:54 AM »
Has anyone ever seen a photo of an F-104 carrying Laser Guided bombs?  I was thinking it could be interesting to see a late model one (say an Italian ASA version) with a LGB under each wing and perhaps a guidance pod on the centreline or fuselage pylons.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2015, 05:52:48 AM »
Has anyone ever seen a photo of an F-104 carrying Laser Guided bombs?  I was thinking it could be interesting to see a late model one (say an Italian ASA version) with a LGB under each wing and perhaps a guidance pod on the centreline or fuselage pylons.
Perhaps gut the cameras from a RF-104G and put the guts of a pod in their place?

Offline The Big Gimper

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2016, 09:20:05 AM »
John Lacey just created these. Great inspiration.  SAAF F-104s






Source: Facebook - John's Aircraft & Armour Profile Page
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Offline Daryl J.

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #83 on: May 05, 2016, 03:37:03 AM »
One could do up several 1/32 Starfighters as the old game of Jarts.
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Offline Weaver

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #84 on: May 05, 2016, 08:07:35 PM »
Has anyone ever seen a photo of an F-104 carrying Laser Guided bombs?  I was thinking it could be interesting to see a late model one (say an Italian ASA version) with a LGB under each wing and perhaps a guidance pod on the centreline or fuselage pylons.

No, but I don't see any reason why not in principle. There's certainly room on the centreline for a targeting pod, and it's usefully far forwards too, giving it some view to the side. You might imagine a TF-104 with the pod and four tanks as the designator (or with the gut of a pod in place of the radar as per Elmayerle's suggestion), while standard F-104s tote the LGBs.

Another thing that would look good is an ATLIS II pod on the centreline and two AS.30Ls under the wings. It would ring true because, IIRC, Luftwaffe F-104s were cleared for the AS.20 from which AS.30 was developed.

Here's another thought: how about a pair of Mavericks under the wings? I don't think there'd be clearance for a Maverick under the fuselage, but the wingtips might be an option for two more: the standard tip tanks must be pretty heavy.
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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2016, 08:22:32 AM »
How about an updated F-104 with a long proboscis such as that found on the Atlas Cheetah or Kfir C10:




Maybe even in Sth American scheme such as those shown above?
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2016, 08:46:22 AM »
Has anyone ever seen a photo of an F-104 carrying Laser Guided bombs?  I was thinking it could be interesting to see a late model one (say an Italian ASA version) with a LGB under each wing and perhaps a guidance pod on the centreline or fuselage pylons.

No, but I don't see any reason why not in principle. There's certainly room on the centreline for a targeting pod, and it's usefully far forwards too, giving it some view to the side. You might imagine a TF-104 with the pod and four tanks as the designator (or with the gut of a pod in place of the radar as per Elmayerle's suggestion), while standard F-104s tote the LGBs.

Another thing that would look good is an ATLIS II pod on the centreline and two AS.30Ls under the wings. It would ring true because, IIRC, Luftwaffe F-104s were cleared for the AS.20 from which AS.30 was developed.

Here's another thought: how about a pair of Mavericks under the wings? I don't think there'd be clearance for a Maverick under the fuselage, but the wingtips might be an option for two more: the standard tip tanks must be pretty heavy.
Actually, I was thinking of putting the guts of the pod in one of the already developed recce camera pods on the underside of the aircraft.   I figure that with two As,30Ls and tanks on the wingtips would be quite suitable.

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #87 on: March 26, 2017, 06:03:00 AM »
Found on YouTube this afternoon: F-104 Starfighter Zero Length Launcher (ZELL) "ZELL FOR DEFENSE" (Lockheed/U.S. Navy) https://youtu.be/XCbegiIhLGg

Includes some decent clips of various test launches in Germany and USA plus some interesting clips of the F-104 launching and recovering from the SATS (Short Airfield for Tactical Support). 
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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #88 on: March 26, 2017, 06:26:07 AM »
Interesting video.  I wish there was a 1/48 ZELL conversion available.

It could be interesting to do a truck mounted operational version.  I ship based system could also be interesting as a kind of modernism CAM fighter.
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Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #89 on: March 26, 2017, 08:58:20 AM »
This kit seems to have the right length booster Greg. Could be a place to start

http://www.oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/h/Hawk48%20Guerilla.JPG

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #90 on: March 26, 2017, 09:12:58 AM »
This kit seems to have the right length booster Greg. Could be a place to start

http://www.oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/h/Hawk48%20Guerilla.JPG


Yeah, I have seen that kit before - they can go for a pretty penny (e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hawk-Guerrilla-Combat-Team-Model-Kit-300-300-Rare-1963-Vintage-/302237999114).  I also wouldn't necessarily want more than the launch equipment (and maybe the truck...) so it would be nice if there was a simple resin version available to purchase.  One could then use that for a number of ideas.
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2017, 09:16:12 AM »
This kit seems to have the right length booster Greg. Could be a place to start

http://www.oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/h/Hawk48%20Guerilla.JPG

Ah, yes, the old Hawk 1/48 ZELL Thunderjet.  I don't remember seeing one mentioned in "Runways of Fire", but it's plausible.  I know they did a fair bit of testing with an F-100; found out a few things not to do, too.

Offline kitnut617

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2017, 09:17:23 AM »
The guy who built this kit:

http://www.arcair.com/Gal6/5601-5700/gal5625-F-104-Murphy/00.shtm

Said he would put the conversion into rubber, whether he did or not I don't know.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #93 on: March 26, 2017, 09:22:08 AM »
The guy who built this kit:

http://www.arcair.com/Gal6/5601-5700/gal5625-F-104-Murphy/00.shtm

Said he would put the conversion into rubber, whether he did or not I don't know.

Nicely done!  He's even got the booster nozzle canted to put the exhaust vector through the CG of the combined assemblage.  That's very important from controllability requirements.  "Runways of Fire" talks about a F-100 ZELL trial where everything was fitted up and then sat most of the day in the sun where differential heating curved the fuselage and shifted the CG to where the pilot had quite a sporty ride when they did fire it off.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 12:41:01 PM by elmayerle »

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2017, 09:25:39 AM »
The guy who built this kit:

http://www.arcair.com/Gal6/5601-5700/gal5625-F-104-Murphy/00.shtm

Said he would put the conversion into rubber, whether he did or not I don't know.


Have just emailed him to ask.
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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2017, 05:51:05 AM »
One that I wasn't previously aware of:   apparently back before they settled on the Mirage III there was Australian interest in a RR Avon powered version of the F-104:

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2017, 09:18:37 AM »
Now that could have been interesting.  'Twould be an interesting subject to model, particularly if a later model than "A" airframe was used as the basis.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2017, 11:38:05 AM »
This does suggest the possibility of a French counter-offer, installing an ATAR 9C, to be later replaced by an ATAR 9K, in a F-104.  From that point, perhaps Lockheed offering a French F-104 with ATAR and two DEFA cannon replacing the M61?

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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2017, 04:33:15 PM »
Now that could have been interesting.  'Twould be an interesting subject to model, particularly if a later model than "A" airframe was used as the basis.

It certainly could have been an interesting version.  Although it's hard to do a direct comparison and noting that the J79 was a revolutionary engine, a quick comparison indicates that a Avon powered version, especially some of the latter more powerful variants, could have proven interesting wrt performance. 

A RAAF version based upon the F-104G would certainly be interesting.
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Re: F-104 Starfighter Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #99 on: May 26, 2017, 03:32:51 PM »
Found it on http://conceptships.blogspot.rs/ Starstealth, Darkfighter,...?  ;)
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