Author Topic: M114D (for Diesel)  (Read 5799 times)

Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2022, 08:39:01 AM »
Slowly making progress on this tiny kit. I used one of the Legend M134 Miniguns and it was a quick build. I used solder (instead of the included brass/copper wire) since it was easier to bend to shape:



I also used some copper rod to add an altitude axis (rather than just gluing it in place) and I shortened the mounting post, so it could mount on the existing (and better detailed) kit part. I added a copper rod in the post to allow it to turn in azimuth.

Here's the French Guy for scale:



There's also a stiff, fragile and brittle resin ammo belt that I'll have to heat and bend to shape and a large ammo can. I must have broken the ammo belt in three or four pieces while taking it off the resin block.

Offline Dr. YoKai

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2022, 11:48:41 PM »
 This is looking neat so far. I wish now I had gone to Camp Mabry in Austin before the move and taken some pictures. Pretty sure the vehicle park there has an M114.

 The Honduran conversion with the triple 20 mm mount looks interesting-but as mention in regard to the Vulcan, it's hard to imagine it carrying enough ammo to be very effective.

Offline Ramba

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2022, 11:52:27 PM »
Looking good. Nice addition with the M134. What is the main weapon going to be?

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2022, 05:14:03 AM »
Ah yup... terrific as usual.

Offline finsrin

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2022, 05:27:55 AM »
Fine touches on minigun  :smiley:

Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2022, 01:45:18 PM »
Thanks, guys. I just finished building a wireless GPS interface for one of my telescopes that lets me control it from an app and get an accurate time and position. My work bench was taken over with my soldering iron, wirewrap tool, oscilloscope and 3D printed parts. So no modelling.

@Craig - the Salvadorean M114 with the three 20 mm guns looks like it belongs in a bad war movie.
@ Ramba - the M114 interior space is tiny - probably similar or even less usable space than inside a HMMWV - just the ammo box for the M134 takes up about 1/5 of the floor area - it's too tall to fit on the sponson. So I think it's just going to be the M134 and an M2.

I'll add the seats for the driver, TC and M134 gunner plus other bits and pieces and I may make shields for the guns and add a remote operator station (if there's enough room!) since I printed so many M151 joysticks.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2022, 10:26:51 AM »
This little tank is taking a long time to build! Adding an interior adds complexity, in part because it's such a small vehicle.

Just an idea of what it will look like with the glacis and engine vents installed:



This is a very rough mockup of the interior, with the internal fuel tank, 0.50 cal ammo boxes (they're facing the wrong way), M134 ammo and the seats. I moved the driver seat back after I took this picture:



Note that there's little room left for the radio, driver's instrument panel and other equipment.

I thought I could free some room by either moving the fuel tank to the M134 side or making external fuel tanks:



I'm not sure which version to go with. Another issue is with the M134. If the ammo is kept inside, it has to be fed through an open hatch. Reloading (and aiming, if I leave it manually operated) is out of the question:



Just no room. I thought that putting the ammo box on the side might help:


or


Or I could just ditch the M134 and put a Mk19 or Mk47 grenade launcher in its place, with a shield. I can add a remote control station inside the vehicle to aim and shoot. This may make more sense in for a recon vehicle, since the 40mm grenades will fit in a 0.50 cal ammo can, freeing up some internal space.

I'm open to suggestions.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 10:29:34 AM by Frank3k »

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2022, 03:15:19 PM »
What about a SAG turret to replace the commander's cupola?



Or there are a couple of funky RWS's available









Unfortunately, almost all of them are from LiveResin out of Russia & are, therefore, a little difficult to come by right now.

The last two are BlackDog (out of the Czech Republic) & Legend Productions (out of South Korea).
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2022, 01:56:04 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions, Guy - I have one of the generic Live Resin SAG turrets. Some US retailers still have some LR items in stock, although that's probably going to be it for a very long time.

I think the LR Sag turret may be too big even for the commander's cupola (it may completely block the driver's hatch in all positions) but I'll test it out.

Offline Story

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2022, 02:30:02 AM »
 

Only for conceptional inspiration.  Note that the third crewman would spend most of his life reloading that ready box.
https://www.super-hobby.com/products/M134D-Minigun-MMC-System-Transparent-Shield-Turret-w-3-000rd-3-Bay-Ammunition-can.html

???????????????????????????????

Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2022, 04:01:23 AM »
Thanks, Story. That's an option. I thought the hatch would have been big enough for a crew member and ammo belt for the Legend M134.. If I go with this (or any other minigun option) I'll have to enlarge that hatch, which may cause other issues.

The Live Resin SAG turret is way too big for the commander's cupola. It would block the driver's hatch in most positions.

I can see why the M114 was a failure in practice.


Offline Story

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2022, 02:33:58 AM »
I can see why the M114 was a failure in practice.

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Offline jcf

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2022, 03:41:29 AM »
I'm afraid the M113 to M114 engine swap is a non-starter.

M114, Chevy SB V8 283 cu. in.
Width: 26"
Length: 28"
Height: 27" (20" to top w/out carb and air filter)
Weight: 575 lbs

M113, Detroit 6V53T
Width: 37"
Length: 39"
Height: 41"
Weight: 1695 lbs

« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 04:06:24 AM by jcf »
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Offline jcf

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2022, 04:09:40 AM »
Popular American V8 Engine Dimensions:
http://www.carnut.com/specs/engdim.html

Engine Dimensions for the Engine Swapper (US):
https://www.teambuick.com/reference/engine_dimensions.php

Index to Diesel Engine Specs and Manuals:
https://barringtondieselclub.co.za/enginesindex.html
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 04:11:40 AM by jcf »
“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2022, 10:32:59 AM »
Thanks, Jon - I must have gotten the wrong dimensions for the Detroit 6V53T. Can you suggest a diesel engine roughly the size of the V8 (but with slightly more power)?

On the armament front, I put together the Trumpeter M151 RWS (it's not quite up to the level of the AFV Club kit, but it'll do). I have to hold back my desire to put grenade launchers on everything - so I'll probably put an M2 in the RWS and a pintle mounted Mk. 19 at the rear.

Offline jcf

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2022, 12:56:37 PM »
What time period are you considering? The farther back you go the harder it is
to find a diesel that fits within your requirements. Even the "small" ones of the
'60s to early '70s that fit the size envelope are pretty hefty and the horsepower
is a lot less than the 283 V-8. Which is one of those things where it isn't really
a matter of one to one equivalency for a variety of reasons, but they'd still not
fulfill the requirements. Modern Volvo-Penta marine diesels would fulfill all of your
needs but, they're all post 2000.

Have you considered a Boeing 502-10MA gas turbine first used on the S-Tank?
Dimensionally it could fit and the weight would be about half the 283. The 553
version used in the production S-Tank could also possibly be made to fit, but the
300 hp of the 502-10MA would give you enough horsepower.
 ;)

Of course if you want something the size of the 283, there's always the marvelous
Oldsmobile/Cadillac diesel conversion of the Olds small-block V-8.
 ;D

502-10MA manual including dimensioned drawings. The overall length of the engine
as installed, 41.5" w/out inlet bell, 45" with inlet bell; is easily within the envelope of
the 283 with Hydromatic transmission; 28" + 24"+/-. Plus yer laughin' with the 24"
diameter.

https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-962
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Offline jcf

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2022, 01:45:05 PM »
Looking at this photo, I don't think there'd be an issue installing a 502-10MA. :smiley:
The engine would install with intake to the rear, exhaust fwd.

“Conspiracy theory’s got to be simple.
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2022, 11:24:06 AM »
Thanks again, Jon! The Boeing 502-10MA can run on diesel, so I guess it still fits! I'm thinking of a model upgraded in the early 70s, with the vehicle in service until the early 2000s.


I'm waiting on some Tamiya Seafoam Green so I can start painting the interior. Then I can add all the interior bits and seal it up. The way Takom designed the hull, you end up with a step or gap between all the plates. Clayton Ockerby added putty to make a weld seam in his build.

Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2022, 10:22:49 AM »
I finally got the sea foam green and was able to paint the interior. The M151 joystick is glued to a dual display I'd printed out for a previous project. The display background was painted with Molotow chrome before the decals were applied. It makes the display look like they're lit. The instrument/switch boxes on the wall are from a Trumpeter 1/35 CH-47 cockpit kit. The main instrument panel is scratchbuilt with dials and switches. Don't know where the ammo boxes came from. I added a 3D printed pedal from one of my aerosan helicopter projects and the smaller pedal for when the driver's seat is raised came from an ancient RPM Renault FT tank... although this vehicle is so tiny that I doubt the driver would need the higher pedal.

The internal fuel tank, seats and control sticks are from the Tamiya 1/35 M113 kit:



I still need to add placards and maybe some internal wiring, but not much is visible through the open hatches.



Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2022, 02:32:52 PM »
The Italeri M163 Vulcan ADS kit included a quartet of 20mm ammunition containers that were supposed to be mounted on the roof of the vehicle in the left rear corner.  Those were a two-part assembly cut diagonally across all four containers from top corner on the high side to the bottom corner on the low side which was a bit unique.  The upgrades to the commander/gunner position are looking good. 
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2022, 02:49:06 PM »
Thanks, Jeff - that must be where the ammo containers are from. I think I got them from you, Bill or as part of one of the boxes of random model bits that were thrown in as part of an small pile of kits that I bought. I have the Italeri kit but I've never looked at the sprues in detail.

The TC/gunner's seat post is scratch-built (I couldn't fine the Tamiya kit's post) and the seat can move up and down, plus fold.

Every time I put a figure in the vehicle, I'm amazed at how small it is. I think these guys would fit just fine:

« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 02:51:38 PM by Frank3k »

Offline Jeffry Fontaine

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2022, 12:56:27 PM »
<snip> Every time I put a figure in the vehicle, I'm amazed at how small it is. I think these guys would fit just fine<snip>

It is tiny from what I recall of sitting in the driver's seat of an M114A2 on the wash rack in the motor pool located in Mainz, Germany long ago it made the the M151 MUTT and HMMWV appear to be quite spacious in comparison.   
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Offline Frank3k

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2022, 10:07:46 AM »
I closed this one up. Last view of the "spacious" interior. The fire extinguishers are sprue sanded to shape and strips of styrene. They're barely visible from outside, so good enough:



I'm having trouble assigning a backstory. I want to add an M151 RWS, but that would put it post 2000 (2002+) So if it had been in operation for 3040 years, like the M113, it would have received some exterior protection. I cut some standoff armor plates (ceramic, whatever) and tacked them (and the weapons and external fuel tanks) with some poster putty:



Somehow, the M151 makes the vehicle's tiny size even more apparent.

Top view - new intake (from a German tank vision port) and exhaust (3D printed leftover):



I may add a smoke grenade launcher at the rear. Then I have to think of a paint job. Probably NATO 3 color or armor sand.

Offline finsrin

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2022, 10:59:42 AM »
Gets better with each new picture.  Like how looks used but not overly so.  Nifty fire extinguisher scratch build too.  Exterior armor adds a lot.  :smiley:
Not built an AFV since 1970s.  This peaks my interest to do so....

Offline apophenia

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Re: M114D (for Diesel)
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2022, 12:03:14 PM »
Gets better with each new picture....

It does, doesn't it! I too was very impressed by the scratch-built fire extinguishers. "They're barely visible from outside, so good enough."  ;D

Thanks for a final opportunity to see the entire interior Frank. It really does emphasize that the M114s were effectively replacing jeeps!
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