M114D (for Diesel)

[Frank3k]

The M114 was a good idea... but in action it was not good. El Salvador bought several in the 80s and did some 1:1 whifs to the point of making the vehicle unrecognizable.

I bought two m114 kits fr the price of 1 at a Sprue Bros sale. I'm not insane enough (yet) to do a Marenco conversion of the M114, but a more modest conversion would be to up-engine it, replacing the good but overworked Chevy V8 with a Diesel engine, from an M113. I think there's just enough room in the engine compartment to do the swap. If not, there's one engine size down that would fit and would give the M114 more power.

So far, I've started with the interior. I could have bought the M114 kit with the full interior instead of two kits, but I wanted to upgrade the crew section anyway. I used some Evergreen diamond tread for the floor. I probably should have used a modern tread pattern for the floor, but the Eduard modern US tread plate is a bitch to cut. The Evergreen isn't glued in, so i may try it:



I'm going to use some of the interior bits from the Tamiya M113 kit, plus some modern 3D printed bits (I have many, many 24" monitors and joysticks printed). I don't know how to make the exterior look like a Diesel, except maybe add a large muffler/scrubber.  Any suggestions?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Off to a great start with the conversion to Diesel.  The next improvement might be to the drive sprockets to extend the things just a bit more forward of the hull to achieve better mobility when attempting to cross obstacles since that was one of the main complaints (faults) with the original M114 when operating cross country. 

[Old Wombat]

Nice start, Frank! An external "vismod" for a diesel conversion may be on the cards for the two M114's I have in the stash.

I have these:

The next improvement might be to the drive sprockets to extend the things just a bit more forward of the hull to achieve better mobility when attempting to cross obstacles since that was one of the main complaints (faults) with the original M114 when operating cross country. 

Thanks for that, Jeff! I'll try to remember that for my builds!

The M1919 & the M60 machine guns are both, definitely being replaced by L7 GPMG's.

[Kerick]

How hard would it be to put rubber band tracks on it?

[Frank3k]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have to see how hard it'll be to move the drive sprocket forward. I was thinking of adding a pair of skids/raised pads in the front to keep it from turning into a ditch digger. The more powerful engine should help it extricate itself.

Kerrick, are you asking about replacing the link and length kit tracks with rubber tracks? The kit tracks look easy to assemble. They are surprisingly wide. I'll see if the old Tamiya rubber band tracks will fit. If you meant rubber shoes for the real tank's tracks, that should be easy (but tedious)

[Story]

So is this going to be a VFW Memorial pulled off it's pad and reinvigorated for the impending Zombie Apocalypse?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

How hard would it be to put rubber band tracks on it?

The tracks used on the M114 have more in common with the Weasel tracked utility vehicle from WW2/Korea or the M76 Otter that was used in Vietnam by the Marines.  There are only four lug nuts for each road wheel. 

I like the idea of replacing the entire track system with that from the M113 just to beef it up and have commonality with that family of vehicles.  Especially with swapping from a 283 cu. in. Chevrolet V-8 to Diesel power. 

The really scary thing about the M114 is that the fuel tank is located right in front of the driver.  A better location for the fuel tanks might be in external tanks on either side of the rear door (similar to what is used on later models of the M113 but cut down to fit the M114 hull height).  Placing the fuel at the rear might also improve operating in water with an air-filled void at the front instead of the fuel tank. 

[Frank3k]

So is this going to be a VFW Memorial pulled off it's pad and reinvigorated for the impending Zombie Apocalypse?

Or "You know, General Abrams told us to get rid of the M114... just not how" Upgrading it (foor possible export) would be one way of getting rid of it.

Jeff - just today I was testing drive options! I tried some Bradley wheels but they were too cramped. I'll look for the rest of my M113 wheels and sprocket to see if it'll work. I was going to put the fuel either next to the commander (like the early M113s0 or in external tanks at the rear like the latter versions. I don't think there's enough room for external tanks, though.

[Kerick]

Yeah, gotta get that fuel outside the vehicle or everyone will be riding on top like the M113s in Vietnam.
When I suggested rubber tracks I was thinking of the rubber tracks some countries have put on their M113s. Easier maintenance on the vehicle and easier on the roads.

[Story]

Or "You know, General Abrams told us to get rid of the M114... just not how" Upgrading it (foor possible export) would be one way of getting rid of it.
 

By 1979, it had been branded a failure and retired from the US Army, but some were released as surplus and continue to be used by police departments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M114_armored_fighting_vehicle

"Sometime during late 1969 or 1970, one of the mechanics sent in a suggestion for an improvement to the sprocket system. He received a very nice 'thank you' but no thanks. Good idea but the Army was planning on replacing the M-114 as soon as possible and would not be funding any further upgrades to the vehicle. In time, those vehicles started breaking down and it would take forever to get something fixed. I had the feeling that the Army had stopped buying spare parts for the M-114."

More end-of-lifespan maintenance nightmares here.
https://www.eaglehorse.org/home_station/hidden_stories/60s/m114/m114.htm

Rubber Band backgrounder
https://warfaretech.blogspot.com/2014/06/band-tracks.html
 
A company's worth reborn would require masochist mechanics.

One- or two-off, labor of love. 

Maybe a Police rebuild in urban digital, w/ M134 and a three man crew?

 

Additional giggles
https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/gwinnett-sheriff-keep-military-vehicle-despite-federal-recall/YHQQfXDSRdNUGPu2ozffyK/

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicles_make-Cadillac_model-M114.html

[Frank3k]

The M114 was a dog, but the general idea was good. The Salvadorean army seems to have gotten good use out of it, despite (or thanks to) the extreme modifications they made to the vehicle. Dropping in a new engine and track system seems like a minor change in comparison.

I tried the M113 road wheels and drive wheel on the M114 and surprisingly, they fit. The drive wheel is 2-3 scale inches away from the first road wheel, but it looks like the M114 kit's suspension is compressed, so it may be OK. Maybe this is the GMC answer to the FMC's Lynx.

[Old Wombat]

Hmmm!?

I have two M163 Vulcan Air Defence Systems that have no use beyond supplying their weapons to other projects!

Takes note!

[Story]

The 20mm M61 has a 6,000 rpm rate of fire.

Practically no powered rotary cannon is supplied with sufficient ammunition for a full minute of firing, due to its weight (at 6,000 rpm, the projectiles alone would represent a mass of about 600 kg (1,300 lb) for one minute of firing; and by including the brass shell, filling and primer the weight is slightly double that at 1,225 kg (2,701 lb)). In order to avoid using the 600 to 1000 rounds carried by aircraft all at once, a burst controller is generally used to limit the number of rounds fired at each trigger pull. Bursts of from two or three up to 40 or 50 can be selected.

So a bigger (rather than smaller) hull with room for more than a sneeze of ammunition would be a neat practical application.  LAV? HEMTT?

Or this dune buggy
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/standard-manufacturing-co-excalibur.4814/

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21002/excalibur-was-a-vulcan-gatling-gun-wielding-air-defense-vehicle-straight-out-of-g-i-joe

[Frank3k]

The M114 is tiny - I don't think you can fit the Vulcan in it - it was a very tight fit in the M113.

The M114 was considered an "armored jeep"... so now I have the thought of turning an Academy M151 MUTT (I'm not going to waste the excellent Tamiya one) into a true armored Jeep. Maybe with the spare M114 track if the M113 works out.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The M114 is tiny - I don't think you can fit the Vulcan in it - it was a very tight fit in the M113.

The M114 was considered an "armored jeep"... so now I have the thought of turning an Academy M151 MUTT (I'm not going to waste the excellent Tamiya one) into a true armored Jeep. Maybe with the spare M114 track if the M113 works out.

M151 MUTT-FT would be an interesting variation on the original MUTT theme.  One of my favorites that never went into production is the 6X6 MUTT with extended wheel base to accommodate the additional rear axle. 

[Story]

The M114 is tiny - I don't think you can fit the Vulcan in it - it was a very tight fit in the M113.

The M134 notion I mentioned is the 7.62 NATO one, like what Jesse Ventura packed going after the Predator.

[Old Wombat]

Wasn't Jesse supposedly using the XM214 Microgun?

[Frank3k]

I discovered that the Italeri (not Academy) M113 wheels are considerably different from the Tamiya M113. So I have four Italeri road wheels and four Tamiya. I have to do plastic surgery to the Italeri drive wheels and hope that the crappy (because I damaged them) Tamita return roller will work. I'm also using the Takom track assembly jig to put the Italeri tracks together. I would use the Tamiya rubber tracks, but joining the two ends is probably harder than just building the link and length tracks.

@Story - I have a Legend 1/35 M134.... I'll use it. I was thinking of a Mk 19 grenade launcher, but the one I have is not in great shape.

[Story]

Wasn't Jesse supposedly using the XM214 Microgun?

214, 134, whatever it takes....

@Story - I have a Legend 1/35 M134.... I'll use it. I was thinking of a Mk 19 grenade launcher, but the one I have is not in great shape.

This should set the mood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbJtGBR19gk

Only for conceptional inspiration.  Note that the third crewman would spend most of his life reloading that ready box.
https://www.super-hobby.com/products/M134D-Minigun-MMC-System-Transparent-Shield-Turret-w-3-000rd-3-Bay-Ammunition-can.html

[LemonJello]

Following along and adding these kits to the wish list - seems like there's a lot of potential here for different versions - Anti-Tank and NBC come to mind.

[Frank3k]

NBC would be interesting, with e airlock-like round hatch at the rear - easier on o-rings to seal without sharp corners.

BTW, o-rings are going to be the downfall of civilization.

[Frank3k]

Adding the M113 wheels and tracks have taken a long, long time:





Everything is loose, so I can remove and paint. The Tamiya rubber tracks are held together with some thin wire threaded through the ends. I may have to redo one side, since it's only using one wire and it's a bit wonky.

[finsrin]

Nice project.   Like how its going.   

[Story]

If it's a three man crew, there'd really be no need for that circular troop door - maybe a flat plate rear with an accordion style folding exterior fuel tank?

No matter whether it's police or military, a bank of smoke/gas dischargers on the front glacis would make sense.

https://www.wegmannusa.com/76mm-grenade-launchers-overview

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Adding the M113 wheels and tracks have taken a long, long time:
 <snip>
Everything is loose, so I can remove and paint. The Tamiya rubber tracks are held together with some thin wire threaded through the ends. I may have to redo one side, since it's only using one wire and it's a bit wonky.

Good to see that the M113 road wheels are able to fit.  I was wondering if that was possible or that there would be a fit issue. 
The smoke grenade launchers from the late model M113A2/M113A3 would look good mounted on the M114 but space at the front is at a premium so maybe Story's suggestion to use the Wegmann devices might be the better option since those are all linear and could be mounted along the sides of the vehicle or on the roof at the rear and out of the way.