Author Topic: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration  (Read 169495 times)

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #350 on: August 22, 2020, 09:53:25 AM »
GTX, probably not what you're spacifically after, in terms of details, but it's a little more than I've been able to find thus far....

Quote
"The F-8D and F-8E versions are sometimes referred to as ‘all-weather fighters’, but this is a bit overplayed.
All fighters of this era needed either a surface radar station or an airborne radar platform to find the enemy at longer range and guide the fighter to a point where it could lock on to the enemy and take over the intercept itself. While the initial version of the Crusader, the F-8A, possessed nothing more than a ranging radar for its guns, Crusaders beginning with the B model had air-intercept radars. The F-8C’s AN/APS-67 could lock on to a target at 16 miles, but with “no angle tracking.” Al Lansdowne found the F-8D’s
AN/APQ-83 to be an improvement,19 but Jim Alderink, one of the first Top Gun instructors,
regarded that radar to be a piece of garbage, and it did not help that pilots did not get enough
time to train in using the radar in flight.
The F-8E’s AN/APQ-94 could detect aircraft at longer ranges than those on earlier marks of
the F-8, and the ‘screen resolution’ was “somewhat better”, making it easier for pilots to use.
It could detect a MiG-sized aircraft as far out as 30 miles,22 and it might detect a larger
aircraft at 50-60 miles. VF-53 found the “APQ-94 reliability [to be] high, and routine
BARCAP/FORCECAP tactics were predicated on its utilization.” Pilots relied on it during night operations but emphasized visual searches during daytime. The AN/APQ-94 could
track targets 45 degrees off centerline and 30 degrees down, and it included upgrades to
improve its abilities against MiGs: “guns automatic ranging only and . . . boresight angle
track.” The radar could achieve a lock-on at 25 miles, and functioned in the “X-band frequency between 8,700 and 9,600 megacyles”. The F-8E also had an AN/AAS-15 infrared search and track system which displayed the azimuth of the target on the radar screen.
When Vought upgraded 136 F-8Es to the F-8J variant, the avionics that came with it received
mixed reviews from the fleet. According to one veteran the new radar was not reliable. The
Fleet Replacement Squadron, VF-124, found that “Although all modified F-8Js were fitted
with an updated radar (the APQ-124 which replaced the APQ-94) which increased
performance, range, and reliability, it was discovered that the modulators in the new radar
failed frequently; thus, many fitted radar systems remained un-repaired while new modulators
were supplied to fleet squadrons having higher priority on parts replacement.”
A veteran of the first squadron to take F-8Js to the Tonkin Gulf, John Braly of VF-162, had nothing good.to say about this variant. According to Braly, “The project test pilot, LCDR Ken Billue, had recommended it was NOT ready for fleet use, too many problems.” Braly noted that this was second hand information. He added, “I think the feelings of most of us that had good F-8 experience was that they took a perfectly good plane, the F-8E, and really screwed it up with added weight, a heavy Magnavox pulse-doppler radar that never worked, the BLC [boundary layer control] which slowed it up, but required too much power to maintain the glide slope.and left nothing but after-burner to wave-off if needed, and downsizing of our 20mm ammo
cans to make room for worthless ECM gear.”

(Source: Prof Michael Weaver. An Examination of the F-8 Crusader through Archival Sources. Journal of Aeronautical History Paper No. 2018/02)


MAD

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #351 on: August 23, 2020, 02:45:20 AM »
I suppose an alternative is to simply have a AN/APG-53C development for the A-4G that gives the AN/APG-53A an air-to-air capability, perhaps even foregoing the surface modes.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #352 on: August 23, 2020, 02:46:47 AM »
Useful source of information:  https://skyhawk.org/article/-technical-data
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #353 on: September 27, 2020, 01:06:12 AM »
Canadian:



Italian:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #354 on: September 27, 2020, 01:31:51 AM »
Netherlands:



Denmark:

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #355 on: September 27, 2020, 02:57:16 AM »
Austrian:

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Offline kim margosein

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #356 on: September 28, 2020, 10:33:06 AM »
IIRC, there was a Douglas brochure showing paintings of Skyhawks in Netherlands Navy, RAN, RCN, and Indian Navy markings.

Offline gogs007

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #357 on: September 30, 2020, 02:27:59 AM »
Reading the axis of time books, they have Skyhawks in the alternative ww2. It might be interesting to do one in ww2 camo and markings.

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #358 on: September 30, 2020, 03:16:28 AM »
Reading the axis of time books, they have Skyhawks in the alternative ww2. It might be interesting to do one in ww2 camo and markings.

I don't recall that - will need to go re-read.
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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #359 on: September 30, 2020, 03:26:51 AM »

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline gogs007

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #360 on: September 30, 2020, 01:30:37 PM »
Reading the axis of time books, they have Skyhawks in the alternative ww2. It might be interesting to do one in ww2 camo and markings.

I don't recall that - will need to go re-read.
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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #361 on: October 01, 2020, 01:51:40 AM »
 :smiley:
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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #362 on: October 01, 2020, 02:19:57 AM »
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #363 on: October 01, 2020, 02:28:14 AM »
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Offline Volkodav

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #364 on: October 01, 2020, 11:25:37 AM »
Skyhawk instead of the Alfa Jet?

Offline GTX_Admin

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #365 on: October 05, 2020, 02:47:20 AM »

All hail the God of Frustration!!!

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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #366 on: October 05, 2020, 03:02:08 AM »



I like the twin Sidewinder AAM arrangement 😯

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #367 on: October 16, 2020, 12:05:57 AM »
For the A-4G, Australia specifies cannon already in their inventory to ease logistics concerns.  Would the choice be the ADEN as carried by the Avon-Sabres or the DEFA as carried by the Mirage IIIOs and which Israel fitted to their A-4H aircraft?  I could see British A-4s being armed with ADEN cannons.

Offline Old Wombat

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #368 on: October 16, 2020, 11:40:21 AM »
For the A-4G, Australia specifies cannon already in their inventory to ease logistics concerns.  Would the choice be the ADEN as carried by the Avon-Sabres or the DEFA as carried by the Mirage IIIOs and which Israel fitted to their A-4H aircraft?  I could see British A-4s being armed with ADEN cannons.

They came with, & retained the standard Colt 20mm cannons but DEFAs are the most likely candidates, as the A-4Gs entered service at about the same time (but shortly after) the RAAF introduced the Mirage IIIO.
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Offline M.A.D

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #369 on: October 17, 2020, 08:16:09 AM »
For the A-4G, Australia specifies cannon already in their inventory to ease logistics concerns.  Would the choice be the ADEN as carried by the Avon-Sabres or the DEFA as carried by the Mirage IIIOs and which Israel fitted to their A-4H aircraft?  I could see British A-4s being armed with ADEN cannons.

They came with, & retained the standard Colt 20mm cannons but DEFAs are the most likely candidates, as the A-4Gs entered service at about the same time (but shortly after) the RAAF introduced the Mirage IIIO.

Makes sense gents, and as the Israeli showed, it was doable. The 30mm round had far greater destructive effect than the 20mm - something Israel inherently respected and appreciated.
In my Alternative ADF ORBAT , I have Aussie A-4's with ADEN's.


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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #370 on: October 17, 2020, 11:33:26 AM »
That makes sense since, IIRC, the ADEN and DEFA share the same ammunition.  *wicked chuckle* I can just imagine the French reaction to a Mirage IIIO with an Avon engine and ADEN cannons replacing the DEFA cannons.

Turning to my comment on the Macchi trainer thread, if most of the other Australian combat aircraft were using DEFA cannon, I could see the MB326KH also doing so; ontra-wise if most of the others were using ADEN cannon.

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #371 on: October 18, 2020, 02:39:31 AM »
That makes sense since, IIRC, the ADEN and DEFA share the same ammunition.  *wicked chuckle* I can just imagine the French reaction to a Mirage IIIO with an Avon engine and ADEN cannons replacing the DEFA cannons.

Add in British Air-to-air missiles as well... ;)
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #372 on: October 18, 2020, 04:08:24 AM »
That makes sense since, IIRC, the ADEN and DEFA share the same ammunition.  *wicked chuckle* I can just imagine the French reaction to a Mirage IIIO with an Avon engine and ADEN cannons replacing the DEFA cannons.

Add in British Air-to-air missiles as well... ;)
That really cries out to be built.

Offline Volkodav

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #373 on: October 18, 2020, 04:04:53 PM »
And a non after burning Spey or Olympus?

Offline M.A.D

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Re: Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Ideas and Inspiration
« Reply #374 on: October 18, 2020, 06:37:30 PM »
And a non after burning Spey or Olympus?
Douglas (or it might have been McDonnell Douglas) offered a non-afterburning Spey variant of the Skyhawk, but you're probably already aware of that Volkodav

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